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Poll

How should Super Mario Bros 1 backgrounds look?

Darker like the NES game
Stay lighter like All-Stars

Author Topic: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )  (Read 136874 times)

PresidentLeever

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #220 on: February 09, 2020, 02:37:36 pm »
That's a lot of sprites! Just based on the OP some of them (maybe most) look quite nice, while others don't have the right proportions or just don't work at such a low res. I know you've done a lot already but I think the best way to do this is a Sonic HD-style fan game (is there an HD mod for any SNES emulator?) where you can actually squeeze in all those details.
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Razieldemon

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #221 on: February 09, 2020, 03:52:56 pm »
side note id kill for something like mesen for snes and original gameboy

pocket

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #222 on: February 09, 2020, 05:00:15 pm »
As far as naming them the first looks like a redraw of the pixel art of bowser from smb1, supershow bowser (really loved yours btw) i know ive seen the third, was that the OVA? then i think thats the ceo bowser right? you got ox bowser, the mecha bowsers are they the ones from SMW? And then of course Mario 3 Bowser.

Most of those are right, the third one, i'm not sure of the origin, but I've seen it in a lot of old merch, most notably the "How to Win at Super Mario Bros." book. The 5th one is Dennis Hopper's King Koopa from the Super Mario Bros. Movie. Mecha Bowser is actually from Super Mario Sunshine, and then the last one is a mix of Mario 3 and Super Mario World.

That's a lot of sprites! Just based on the OP some of them (maybe most) look quite nice, while others don't have the right proportions or just don't work at such a low res. I know you've done a lot already but I think the best way to do this is a Sonic HD-style fan game (is there an HD mod for any SNES emulator?) where you can actually squeeze in all those details.


Well those are some pretty discouraging words  :-[ .  I know nothing about programming so I can't make a Sonic 2 HD style game. Even if I did have the skill though, I have no interest in making something I can't play on SNES hardware. Besides, those types of projects almost never get finished. So even if some sprites are less than ideal i'm going to go ahead and push forward with this project.  I'm open to hearing ideas on how some sprites can be improved, but I still have to work within the limits of SNES, and I wouldn't change platforms even if I could.

And for the record a lot of the sprites in the OP are out of date.  I've updated it after I made this post, but nearly everything has gone through at least one revision and will go through more.



EDIT: Well i've gone back to the drawing board on Lost Levels Mario's sprite. I've made his head smaller so his proportions will look a little more natural. The body is mostly the same... not for a lack of trying though.  It's really frustrating how something looks really good when it's a still image looks like trash when it's animated. And his head turning during the walk cycle is the bane of my existence.

I might do something similar for SMB2 Mario, but he's a lot easier to work with.


EDIT: Am I crazy.. or did they change world 4-1 in SMB1?  On the NES you can get through it be just running as fast as possible and jumping over the piranha plants, but I cannot do that in All-Stars, I always get hit by the piranha plant or I have to wait for them. Did they make the pipes slightly taller??  I wonder if that could be fixed.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 02:24:11 am by pocket »
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triforce141

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #223 on: February 10, 2020, 02:33:26 am »
Am I crazy.. or did they change world 4-1 in SMB1?  On the NES you can get through it be just running as fast as possible and jumping over the piranha plants, but I cannot do that in All-Stars, I always get hit by the piranha plant or I have to wait for them. Did they make the pipes slightly taller??  I wonder if that could be fixed.

Piranha Plant's hitboxes cover the entire sprite in All-Stars, the NES originals had hitboxes for the stem only

niuus

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #224 on: February 10, 2020, 08:51:01 am »
That's a lot of sprites! Just based on the OP some of them (maybe most) look quite nice, while others don't have the right proportions or just don't work at such a low res. I know you've done a lot already but I think the best way to do this is a Sonic HD-style fan game (is there an HD mod for any SNES emulator?) where you can actually squeeze in all those details.
No, not really... we'd really rather play on original SNES hardware. The sprite work done here is simply fantastic.

Metalwario64

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #225 on: February 10, 2020, 12:37:44 pm »

I'm not going to lie, I feel like you made some serious downgrades here. He looks very blocky and scraggly, and in the "standing" frame of the walk cycle, he looks hunch backed, and in the second frame his nose sticks out so far that the top half of his head looks super thin, making his head look pear shaped. The jumping frame now has smaller hands and feet than everything else too.

Really, I think with some tweaks, your previous ones were better. I'm not trying to insult you, just offer constructive criticism on how to improve your work. Here is something I've been working on for the past couple of days (mostly because I've been so busy):


From the previous set, I lowered his arms (he looked so stiff), and made tweaks to the proportions and animation of his face. I also rounded out his stomach. I still need to fix the positioning of the overall buttons though.

I also have made these adjustments for all of the other frames, and later today or tomorrow I'll post them here if you're happy with this.

Also, I don't know how much experience you have with animation (I know you do in drawing, at least, from that series of Bowser drawings you posted), but here's a tip I've learned while experimenting on my own: for animating something rotating (i.e. Mario's head here), references don't hurt. I know this is a new art project, but when making my edits, I referred to the original All-Stars sprites for aid. Also, in general, when animating, you need to be able to visualize, in a 3D space, where the parts of the objects/characters will be in which pose. After studying things like that for a while you will develop more of an understanding for that sort of thing. Basically like anything as long as you just keep at it.

pocket

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #226 on: February 10, 2020, 08:58:46 pm »
I'm not going to lie, I feel like you made some serious downgrades here. He looks very blocky and scraggly, and in the "standing" frame of the walk cycle, he looks hunch backed, and in the second frame his nose sticks out so far that the top half of his head looks super thin, making his head look pear shaped. The jumping frame now has smaller hands and feet than everything else too.

Really, I think with some tweaks, your previous ones were better. I'm not trying to insult you, just offer constructive criticism on how to improve your work. Here is something I've been working on for the past couple of days (mostly because I've been so busy):


From the previous set, I lowered his arms (he looked so stiff), and made tweaks to the proportions and animation of his face. I also rounded out his stomach. I still need to fix the positioning of the overall buttons though.

I also have made these adjustments for all of the other frames, and later today or tomorrow I'll post them here if you're happy with this.

Also, I don't know how much experience you have with animation (I know you do in drawing, at least, from that series of Bowser drawings you posted), but here's a tip I've learned while experimenting on my own: for animating something rotating (i.e. Mario's head here), references don't hurt. I know this is a new art project, but when making my edits, I referred to the original All-Stars sprites for aid. Also, in general, when animating, you need to be able to visualize, in a 3D space, where the parts of the objects/characters will be in which pose. After studying things like that for a while you will develop more of an understanding for that sort of thing. Basically like anything as long as you just keep at it.

Go ahead and post them.

I'm totally fine with criticism as long as a suggestion or solution is offered. I hope I don't come off as taking poorly to criticism. If I do, it's because I've been devoting most of my free time to this project and it can sometimes feel like a whole day was wasted when something I worked on didn't come out right.

I actually appreciate the help a lot, I do want this to be the best it can be, but I'm still an amateur in art and especially animation. I'm doing the best I can here but I think it's for the best that people with a little more skill than me go over what i've done and refine it.

In fact, Mario 1 and 2 are practically complete ( besides the Mario and Luigi sprites in SMB1 ).  I'm primarily focusing on Lost Levels and SMB3 now. So I was thinking about inviting people to demo SMB1 and 2, but only if they could offer to refine things that they think are a little rough looking. I don't know if that's something anyone would be interested in.
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Metalwario64

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #227 on: February 10, 2020, 09:46:08 pm »
No, it's not you, I just always get bad reactions from people when I offer constructive criticism, so I always err on the side of caution now when doing so (and even then I still sometimes get people up in arms at my doing so).

I would say I'm still an amateur as well. The things I do know have been learned solely through years of observation and perseverance.

pocket

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #228 on: February 10, 2020, 11:40:49 pm »


SMB1 Bowser got a bit of an update today, his horns and spines now have their yellow color from the art, and his horns curve up more. They looked like they were pointing backward to me.

I'm having trouble deciding how to differentiate him from his Lost Levels incarnation ( vanilla version ), a more fierce face is the easy way but I wonder if maybe I should give him his yellow hair from the older artwork in one version and red hair in the other.

EDIT:



All the "Special" versions of Lost Levels enemies so far. Goombas are based on the Legend of Zelda, Link's Awakening, Buzzy Beetle is based on an explosive cousin of theirs from Super Mario Land 2, Spinies are based on their appearance in Super Mario RPG, Lakitu is based on the Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap, Cheep Cheep is replaced by Trouter, whom we see from the side in their artwork in SMB2, but in the actual game, we only see them from the top. I figure this is a way I can squeeze in another "Art Faithful" thing in the game ( Though I should probably shorten their faces a bit ), Bloopers are from Super Mario Sunshine, and the Podoboo are just copy pasted fireballs from the final battle of Super Mario World.

I really don't know what I want to do with Koopa troopas, the easy answer is to base them on the electro Koopas or the yoshi egg Koopas from Mario Sunshine but I was hoping to avoid using more than one Sunshine design, and those enemies behave very differently than regular Koopas ( which is a flimsy excuse when I used exploding Buzzy Beetles but ehh... )   I did say Piranha Plants and Bullet Bills wouldn't change in this version but now they seem out of place next to their crazier looking peers. And I've got nothing for Hammer Bros. Ideas?

I need to reiterate this is a special optional patch and the default option will mostly use touched up SMB1 sprites.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 01:42:02 am by pocket »
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AdamDravian

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #229 on: February 11, 2020, 04:28:30 am »
I need to reiterate this is a special optional patch and the default option will mostly use touched up SMB1 sprites.

Before reading this sentence, I was going to say that the only one I take any issue with is trouter, as it feels wrong to mix a Doki-Doki enemy into the "real" Mario 2, but since it's an optional patch, why not?

Also, please don't get discouraged by unhelpful criticisms (not talking about Metalwario64). Obviously, the majority here seem to greatly appreciate what you're doing and think you're doing a fantastic job. I'm sure I speak for many of us when I say I'm eagerly looking forward to playing this once it's ready.
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Da_GPer

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #230 on: February 11, 2020, 06:34:27 am »
For the Piranha Plants, maybe replace them with the hands from the last level of Super Mario Land, Wario's Castle from Super Mario Land 2, or the Dark Land map screen from Super Mario Bros 3. The Goombas or the Koopas can be the Goombas from Super Mario World. Bullet Bills can be Pidgets from Super Mario Bros 2 or Super Mario World. I hope that can help you.

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #231 on: February 11, 2020, 11:15:09 am »
In the optional patch, you could base the koopas off of the Bombshell Koopas from Super Mario Land.

Ar8temis008

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #232 on: February 11, 2020, 11:24:11 am »
https://i.imgur.com/1Y0CVRV.png

Koopas could be designed closer to these variants from SML1

and for hammer bros

https://i.imgur.com/8xxYfxE.jpg

maybe something like this but with less spikes?

jimstrom

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #233 on: February 11, 2020, 05:15:10 pm »
That Bowser sprite looks awesome, i'm so exited for this project!

PresidentLeever

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #234 on: February 11, 2020, 05:25:50 pm »
@pocket: OK, is it fully up to date now? I'll have another look.

Well that wasn't my intention, I just gave a general opinion based on the OP and you seem to have fans of the project so there's certainly an audience for it. I guess there is no "hd graphics" emulator option for SNES yet like there is for NES, well fair enough.

To be more constructive I can make a couple of suggestions:
-Try blowing up each sprite on top of the artwork but on a separate layer in photoshop or whatever. You'll see more easily where things are off proportion. One example is mario and luigi's noses which are too big in your version. They might be a tad small in the original but with such a low res one pixel makes a big difference.
-Look at the shading on the red mushroom, then the poison mushroom. See how the light source is different? I think everything would look better with a consistent light source, at least stuff in the same category of items or enemies like mushrooms/flowrs/stars, koopas, etc.
-For animations, try posting the gif as well as the frames so people can more easily see if there's a flaw.
-Looking at the bombs in SMB2 (this is the case for a couple of other sprites too), you've made them look flatter by removing the brighter shades, and non-shiny as well.

I could make some edits for these and various other things since that would be easiest to understand I think, but you'd have to post the sprite sheets.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 05:50:42 pm by PresidentLeever »
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pocket

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #235 on: February 12, 2020, 01:44:43 am »
https://i.imgur.com/1Y0CVRV.png

Koopas could be designed closer to these variants from SML1

and for hammer bros

https://i.imgur.com/8xxYfxE.jpg

maybe something like this but with less spikes?

I like that idea for Hammer Bros.

Since they're supposed to be pirate Koopas, I was going to make their hammers into cutlasses, but they didn't quite look right when they were thrown in-game.

@pocket: OK, is it fully up to date now? I'll have another look.

Well that wasn't my intention, I just gave a general opinion based on the OP and you seem to have fans of the project so there's certainly an audience for it. I guess there is no "hd graphics" emulator option for SNES yet like there is for NES, well fair enough.

To be more constructive I can make a couple of suggestions:
-Try blowing up each sprite on top of the artwork but on a separate layer in photoshop or whatever. You'll see more easily where things are off proportion. One example is mario and luigi's noses which are too big in your version. They might be a tad small in the original but with such a low res one pixel makes a big difference.
-Look at the shading on the red mushroom, then the poison mushroom. See how the light source is different? I think everything would look better with a consistent light source, at least stuff in the same category of items or enemies like mushrooms/flowrs/stars, koopas, etc.
-For animations, try posting the gif as well as the frames so people can more easily see if there's a flaw.
-Looking at the bombs in SMB2 (this is the case for a couple of other sprites too), you've made them look flatter by removing the brighter shades, and non-shiny as well.

I could make some edits for these and various other things since that would be easiest to understand I think, but you'd have to post the sprite sheets.

I'll take these into consideration when I return to tweak some of these sprites but I don't think I can do all of it. I can't just trace the art in photoshop since I still have to work within the game's limitations. For example, I'd love to have Birdo hunch forward in a more dinosaur like pose like her artwork, but unfortunately, the game has her standing straight up, and since I don't know how to widen a sprite, I have no choice.  There is simply no way to be 100% accurate to the art ( Which is a big part of why I think this project should have a different name ), but I would like to get a s close as I can.

What is it you'd want to edit? I was actually thinking of making .bin files of completed sheets publicly available in a MEGA link so people could help out and edit if they wanted to.

To be honest I'm kind of counting on getting a little extra help on this project, I'm fine editing enemies but the Mario sprites for TLL and SMB3 are starting to become a source of stress for me, and I haven't even started on Luigi, and as a result i've been having a lot less fun with this project.

EDIT:  I've started a new poll to re-name this project. I've narrowed it down to 5 choices. 

This project started with the goal to make everything look more accurate to it's artwork, and that's still the main goal, but I have a lot more I want to do now, like restoring elements that were removed or changed from the NES and famicom versions, making Lost Levels stand apart from SMB1, possibly adding some other interesting stuff ( hint: Mecha-Mouser and Dryclyde might not be totally off the table after-all ), and i'm open ears for other things I could do to make this hack interesting as long as there's someone with the ability to make it happen.

Because of this, I think a new name is necessary, it's not just about artwork accuracy anymore and I think advertising it as such might send the wrong message.

So we have SMAS: Deluxe... just a simple and very common suffix to add to something to imply an upgrade ( though I feel a lot of people might not see what I've done as an upgrade. )

35th anniversary edition, since SMB series will turn 35 this year. The franchise as a whole will be 40 next year, but I don't see that hack taking this long ( although, if someone could insert Classic Kong into the game, I'd feel obligated to rename it 40'th anniversary instead. Not likely. )

SMAS Redrawn, gets the point across pretty well but a little derivative of SMW Redrawn, which is pretty different from what i'm trying to acheive here and will be even more confusing when I get around to the SMAS+W version of the game.

SMAS 2020 ...pretty obvious. That's the year this Hack will hopefully be finished in.

And lastly, SMAS, classic edition, which is mostly in reference to the way this hack is trying to re-create the classic look of the games as well as the classic artwork ( as opposed to the modern, NSMB style stuff ), but also just a nod to the SNES classic edition, which I really want to put this game on once i'm finished.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 03:08:58 am by pocket »
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CoolCatBomberMan

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If you really want to go crazy with funky enemy designs, then how about referencing the All Night Nippon version of SMB1, somehow? Just a thought.......

Domino089

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It would be great if these possibilities are included for both SMAS and SMAS + SMW

Super Mario All Stars and Super Mario All Stars + Super Mario World:

• Super Mario Bros 1, Super Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario World: when we only play with player 1 have the possibility to choose whether to play with Mario or Luigi

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@pocket

I have done some pixel art in the past. If you got a set of background details or character sprites youd like to skip for now let me know and I can give them a shot. I dont expect my work to be in the final build but I can certainly try and see what you think.

I did have some artwork for powerups a long time ago as an example and they were all based on artwork.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 08:16:57 pm by Razieldemon »

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I chose SMAS 2020, so stomp me. :D

I don't actually think any of the names are quite right, though, as is typical of me with situations like this.

SMAS: Mario-Painted would have been my choice. But when stuff like this happens, I remember what Nicholas Meyer said, of the changing of Star Trek II's name (without his permission) from "The Undiscovered Country" to "The Vengeance of Khan." He got on the phone to Frank Mancuso (Paramount's head of marketing) in New York and had what he described as the world's most polite argument with him about it, and then it got changed (who knows why) to "The Wrath of Khan."

Nicholas Meyer later recalled being in a marketing meeting with another bigwig who was fuming about it "Nobody knows what the word 'WRATH' means!! How did we wind up with this stupid, stupid title" and so on and so forth, "the WRATH, the WRATH, the WRATH," etc. Meyer reflected that his philosophy of creative works is that nobody cares what the work is called, nobody cares who's in the work, nobody cares what the work's about, they only care about one thing: "Is the work good?"
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