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Poll

How should Super Mario Bros 1 backgrounds look?

Darker like the NES game
Stay lighter like All-Stars

Author Topic: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )  (Read 141161 times)

ShadowOne333

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #100 on: January 23, 2020, 11:12:17 pm »
That Yoshi is looking really awesome!
I like the more rounded design for him and his eyes, gives him more life and less of a stale stare.

Also, for EarthBound and Zelda 1 NES do let me know if you'll work on those. I'm really curious as to what you might come up for those :)

pocket

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #101 on: January 23, 2020, 11:28:54 pm »
EDIT: I can already tell any editing of pallets in Super Mario World is going to be nigh impossible since everything seems to share pallets with something else in this game. It wouldn't be so bad if we weren't stuck with those awful Koopalings.

That Yoshi is looking really awesome!
I like the more rounded design for him and his eyes, gives him more life and less of a stale stare.

Also, for EarthBound and Zelda 1 NES do let me know if you'll work on those. I'm really curious as to what you might come up for those :)

I actually did tweak Ness as a test, but for some reason he didn't actually appear in game so I couldn't take a screenshot. But here's a zoomed in shot from YYCHR


« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 04:36:52 am by pocket »
Somebody alert me when a user friendly BS Zelda hacking tool is made. I will give my soul to work on a faithful SNES remake of Zelda 1.

lexluthermiester

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #102 on: January 24, 2020, 04:04:09 am »
Looks like the vote is almost dead even ATM. The change is a great idea, really makes more sense, culturally.

cartridge_rom

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #103 on: January 24, 2020, 09:04:57 am »
pocket values in the future as a project, make minimal improvements to update in the sprites of the original NES Super Mario games.
It would be nice to see. you have talent.
Greetings.

ShadowOne333

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #104 on: January 24, 2020, 10:33:57 am »
EDIT: I can already tell any editing of pallets in Super Mario World is going to be nigh impossible since everything seems to share pallets with something else in this game. It wouldn't be so bad if we weren't stuck with those awful Koopalings.

I actually did tweak Ness as a test, but for some reason he didn't actually appear in game so I couldn't take a screenshot. But here's a zoomed in shot from YYCHR

That Ness looks neat!
The images I have in my repo aren't for your normal sprite editor, they're actually png files ready for editing with GraphicsGale, and the whole source in the Redux repo is compiled with a software called CoilSnake, specific for EarthBound hacking.
Can't wait to see what you come up with for Zelda 1 :)

As for the Koopalings and the palette issues.
Have you thought perhaps about editing the palette so that, if many things use the same palette, you can perhaps change the palette to have the 16 colours you need or want, and only adjusting the sprites to account for the new changes?

I have done several hacks in this way before, closest example is in the Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin hack where I changed the palette accordingly to fit what I needed.
What you can do is take note of the enemies that share that same palette, and then start picking which colours from that palette can be changed to free up one colour slot, and accommodate the old color for a new one that can be used for all assets.

Take this for example:


This are the 16 badges from Gen 2 re-paletted and redesigned for Gen 3.
I know the badges in Gen 3 use 16 colours in greyscale, so I changed the greyscale palette for a new one, and recoloured each badge with the 16 colours I made, so that they all use the same 16 colour palette.

Hopefully this helps carry the point across.

Ar8temis008

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #105 on: January 24, 2020, 10:46:55 am »
If you are willing to sacrifice as + w compatibility and seperate World, you can also easily use per level (so, per koopaling) pallets using some ASM trickery from Central's amazing asm repository. Go check it out, lots of good stuff there and well worth considering.

MKDSmaster91

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #106 on: January 24, 2020, 01:50:58 pm »
One Question: Is Mario's glove going to be white in SMB3 for this version of Super Mario All-Stars?
I like what I'm seeing for this hack! :thumbsup:

Razieldemon

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #107 on: January 24, 2020, 02:16:16 pm »
And here's the bird.



...a bit boring wouldn't you say? And pretty obvious that I just kinda barely edited the albatoss sprite.  That's kind of a mix of Albatoss's sprite being yet another space too small to do anything interesting with, and not really knowing what direction to take the design. I'll be open to suggestion.

Great, I think it's obvious at this point that Seal and ordinary SMB3 dog are the clear winners of the straw poll ( not that there were that many votes ), so i'll go ahead and send them to you now, along with a patch of everything so far.
 :laugh:


EDIT: I apparantly had a batch of SMB3 enemies I forgot to add to OP. Oops. I'm actually very fond of how Boom Boom came out.
Dry Bones, I decided against taking the same approach I did for SMB1.  I wish I had more room to work on the Koopa type enemies to make them more accurate. I think this explains why they stand upright in later games.

EDIT AGAIN: New poll in relation to a question I asked earlier.
The viking like guy feels like he would be better suited to Iced Land, and The King of Grass Land and Giant Land both kind of look like desert sultans  Note, I would only be swapping their true forms, their changed forms will stay where most of them make thematic sense

EDIT:

Bowser had a pretty interesting design on the Japanese box and manual. I don't think i'll be using this design for the final battle in SMB3 ( especially since the cape would be too difficult to add ), but I would like to reference it in the portraits on his wall in Bowser's Castle, and maybe the letter he sends after kidnapping Peach.  Maybe in the final battle he can have just the jewel on his collar?

on the bird sprite might I suggest opening the mouth, expanding the white of the eye and reducing the pupil? Maybe a couple white dots for panic? These arent things I necessarily assume will improve it but you mentioned you felt it was a bit blah so i tried to think of simple methods to make it a little more expressive.

January 24, 2020, 02:40:40 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
also noticed that when you changed the phanto in your previous pictures that he changed but the ornamental phantos did not... maybe keep all of them in static glum pose until the key is picked up? then phanto goes manic? Or the other way around
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 02:40:41 pm by Razieldemon »

Fire-WSP

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #108 on: January 24, 2020, 03:05:14 pm »
Normaly I'am not a big friend of modifications in Mario Games but this is cool :)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 11:45:56 am by Fire-WSP »

pocket

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #109 on: January 25, 2020, 12:56:42 am »
I'm at my wits end trying to figure out how I can make the Koopalings colors look right in SMW so I think I might have to forfeit that notion.  I can re-draw them to look closer to their artwork, but they're still going to have to be miscolored.  Though honestly, the Koopalings are the only things in the game that even have super inaccurate palettes.  ...That and Thwomp. No way to turn it blue as far as I can tell. So if we can live with the Koopalings being the wrong color, I'll push forward with the SMAS+World version of the game. Also the Iggy Hair fix patch doesn't work on SMAS+W so that's another bummer.

I spent so long trying to make headway on this and I kinda sorta a little bit did something with Lemmy Koopa but he's the only one and his shell is still yellow, and his hair could use more color.


This lack of progress has put me in such a grumpy mood.

EDIT: Well... Actually I finally did get Lemmy right. Turns out his boss room was in the game 3 times but only one of them was the "right" one. The Fireball guy turned green in the process but I can address that later.



EDIT: However, I happen to know Lemmy and Wendy Koopa are acceptions and actually CAN be edited, while the other Koopalings aren't so easy.  I've edited their palettes, but the changes don't stick to the actual game.

pocket values in the future as a project, make minimal improvements to update in the sprites of the original NES Super Mario games.
It would be nice to see. you have talent.
Greetings.

If I understand what you're saying right, you want to know if I plan to make NES versions of this?  I don't think so. A lot of what I've done here is only possible thanks to the SNES's ability to have more colors per sprite. NES colors are way too restrictive for my liking. But if someone else wants to do some NES Mario hacks using what I've done here as a guide, they have my blessing.  But thank you for your interest in this project.

That Ness looks neat!
The images I have in my repo aren't for your normal sprite editor, they're actually png files ready for editing with GraphicsGale, and the whole source in the Redux repo is compiled with a software called CoilSnake, specific for EarthBound hacking.
Can't wait to see what you come up with for Zelda 1 :)

As for the Koopalings and the palette issues.
Have you thought perhaps about editing the palette so that, if many things use the same palette, you can perhaps change the palette to have the 16 colours you need or want, and only adjusting the sprites to account for the new changes?

I have done several hacks in this way before, closest example is in the Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin hack where I changed the palette accordingly to fit what I needed.
What you can do is take note of the enemies that share that same palette, and then start picking which colours from that palette can be changed to free up one colour slot, and accommodate the old color for a new one that can be used for all assets.

Take this for example:


This are the 16 badges from Gen 2 re-paletted and redesigned for Gen 3.
I know the badges in Gen 3 use 16 colours in greyscale, so I changed the greyscale palette for a new one, and recoloured each badge with the 16 colours I made, so that they all use the same 16 colour palette.

Hopefully this helps carry the point across.

I think I get what you're saying. Though I'm having a devil of a time even editing the palettes at all, much less identifying them.  I cant see the graphics in tile molester so I can't know if the palettes are right. I can edit palettes in Lunar Magic, and I can even assign a unique palette for each room, nullifying any problems I might encounter with things sharing palettes with the Koopalings, but Boss rooms can't be rendered in Lunar Magic.  I can't even look at the Koopalings in BSNES's tile viewer, in Morton's Room, it just displays stuff from Bowser's fight but Morton Himself is just not there.

If you are willing to sacrifice as + w compatibility and seperate World, you can also easily use per level (so, per koopaling) pallets using some ASM trickery from Central's amazing asm repository. Go check it out, lots of good stuff there and well worth considering.
I was planning to release the SMW portion as a seperate hack in addition to the SMAS+W version, but if it becomes too much of a hassle, I might just make SMW stand alone only. That being said, I have been looking at what SMW has to offer, but as someone who's understanding of rom-hacking is extremely limited, knowing exactly what to use and how to use it is not always easy for me.

on the bird sprite might I suggest opening the mouth, expanding the white of the eye and reducing the pupil? Maybe a couple white dots for panic? These arent things I necessarily assume will improve it but you mentioned you felt it was a bit blah so i tried to think of simple methods to make it a little more expressive.

The bird is definitely a placeholder, i'm very dissatisfied with it, I'm holding off on working on the Kings any further until the Dog and Seal are inserted though. But I'll take note of your suggestions, opening the beak did cross my mind initially.
also noticed that when you changed the phanto in your previous pictures that he changed but the ornamental phantos did not... maybe keep all of them in static glum pose until the key is picked up? then phanto goes manic? Or the other way around
Bruh, I WISH I knew how to do that kind of stuff because that sounds like an amazing idea.   I only know how to edit existing frames of animation, not add new ones.  I'd welcome someone who knows how to add extra frames of animation to help with that.

One Question: Is Mario's glove going to be white in SMB3 for this version of Super Mario All-Stars?
I like what I'm seeing for this hack! :thumbsup:
Absolutely. I'm probably going to re-do all the Mario sprites, and it wouldn't be very artwork accurate if I left his hands bare now would it?

EDIT: Since Lemmy and Wendy are both apparantly possible to hack, I went ahead with editing Wendy.



January 25, 2020, 09:15:01 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I think I might start working on Super Mario Bros. 1 player sprites but before I press on I wanted some opinions.

In both the original NES game, the sprites had no outlines. This mostly carried over to the All-Stars remake, but for whatever reason, Mario, and one or two other objects in the game suddenly had black outlines that kind of made them look like they were copy pasted from a different game ( And they kinda were since they were mostly just the Mario 3 sprites with overalls and shirt colors flipped. )

So, should I do away with the outlines?  Or does it make Mario stand out way more with them?

If I can't get some replies, it might be time for a new poll since, despite it being fairly even, I think the winner is obvious.

Here's the idle stance ( the only sprite i've done so far) with, and without the outlines.



Keep in mind, I want Lost Levels to look kinda different from SMB1 beyond just platforms, so maybe I can keep the version with outlines for Lost Levels?
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 09:15:02 pm by pocket »
Somebody alert me when a user friendly BS Zelda hacking tool is made. I will give my soul to work on a faithful SNES remake of Zelda 1.

JacobLeBeauREAL

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #110 on: January 25, 2020, 09:43:06 pm »
I'm at my wits end trying to figure out how I can make the Koopalings colors look right in SMW so I think I might have to forfeit that notion.  I can re-draw them to look closer to their artwork, but they're still going to have to be miscolored.  Though honestly, the Koopalings are the only things in the game that even have super inaccurate palettes.  ...That and Thwomp. No way to turn it blue as far as I can tell. So if we can live with the Koopalings being the wrong color, I'll push forward with the SMAS+World version of the game. Also the Iggy Hair fix patch doesn't work on SMAS+W so that's another bummer.

I spent so long trying to make headway on this and I kinda sorta a little bit did something with Lemmy Koopa but he's the only one and his shell is still yellow, and his hair could use more color.


This lack of progress has put me in such a grumpy mood.

EDIT: Well... Actually I finally did get Lemmy right. Turns out his boss room was in the game 3 times but only one of them was the "right" one. The Fireball guy turned green in the process but I can address that later.



EDIT: However, I happen to know Lemmy and Wendy Koopa are acceptions and actually CAN be edited, while the other Koopalings aren't so easy.  I've edited their palettes, but the changes don't stick to the actual game.

If I understand what you're saying right, you want to know if I plan to make NES versions of this?  I don't think so. A lot of what I've done here is only possible thanks to the SNES's ability to have more colors per sprite. NES colors are way too restrictive for my liking. But if someone else wants to do some NES Mario hacks using what I've done here as a guide, they have my blessing.  But thank you for your interest in this project.

I think I get what you're saying. Though I'm having a devil of a time even editing the palettes at all, much less identifying them.  I cant see the graphics in tile molester so I can't know if the palettes are right. I can edit palettes in Lunar Magic, and I can even assign a unique palette for each room, nullifying any problems I might encounter with things sharing palettes with the Koopalings, but Boss rooms can't be rendered in Lunar Magic.  I can't even look at the Koopalings in BSNES's tile viewer, in Morton's Room, it just displays stuff from Bowser's fight but Morton Himself is just not there.
I was planning to release the SMW portion as a seperate hack in addition to the SMAS+W version, but if it becomes too much of a hassle, I might just make SMW stand alone only. That being said, I have been looking at what SMW has to offer, but as someone who's understanding of rom-hacking is extremely limited, knowing exactly what to use and how to use it is not always easy for me.

The bird is definitely a placeholder, i'm very dissatisfied with it, I'm holding off on working on the Kings any further until the Dog and Seal are inserted though. But I'll take note of your suggestions, opening the beak did cross my mind initially.Bruh, I WISH I knew how to do that kind of stuff because that sounds like an amazing idea.   I only know how to edit existing frames of animation, not add new ones.  I'd welcome someone who knows how to add extra frames of animation to help with that.
Absolutely. I'm probably going to re-do all the Mario sprites, and it wouldn't be very artwork accurate if I left his hands bare now would it?

EDIT: Since Lemmy and Wendy are both apparantly possible to hack, I went ahead with editing Wendy.



January 25, 2020, 09:15:01 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I think I might start working on Super Mario Bros. 1 player sprites but before I press on I wanted some opinions.

In both the original NES game, the sprites had no outlines. This mostly carried over to the All-Stars remake, but for whatever reason, Mario, and one or two other objects in the game suddenly had black outlines that kind of made them look like they were copy pasted from a different game ( And they kinda were since they were mostly just the Mario 3 sprites with overalls and shirt colors flipped. )

So, should I do away with the outlines?  Or does it make Mario stand out way more with them?

If I can't get some replies, it might be time for a new poll since, despite it being fairly even, I think the winner is obvious.

Here's the idle stance ( the only sprite i've done so far) with, and without the outlines.



Keep in mind, I want Lost Levels to look kinda different from SMB1 beyond just platforms, so maybe I can keep the version with outlines for Lost Levels?
Keep the outlines for Lost Levels, ditch them from SMB1. That's what I think you should do.

Unrelated, but how will you do Luigi's sprites in SMW?

triforce141

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #111 on: January 25, 2020, 11:49:11 pm »
Personally, I'd go without the black outlines to keep Mario and Luigi's art consistent with the other characters, but with a darker brown for contrast.

Maybe for Super Mario Bros and Lost Levels looking different, have a unique idle stance for each game, left arm lowered in Mario 1 and rasied up for Lost Levels.


pocket

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #112 on: January 25, 2020, 11:58:30 pm »
Personally, I'd go without the black outlines to keep Mario and Luigi's art consistent with the other characters, but with a darker brown for contrast.

Maybe for Super Mario Bros and Lost Levels looking different, have a unique idle stance for each game, left arm lowered in Mario 1 and rasied up for Lost Levels.



Oh for sure if I go without outlines, i'll make the brown darker, what I posted was just a bit of an example. I didn't want to do any pallet editing until after I made my decision.
Somebody alert me when a user friendly BS Zelda hacking tool is made. I will give my soul to work on a faithful SNES remake of Zelda 1.

lexluthermiester

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #113 on: January 26, 2020, 12:36:17 am »
IMHO, the outlines look better.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 01:21:12 am by lexluthermiester »

niuus

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #114 on: January 26, 2020, 01:48:22 am »
Personally, I'd go without the black outlines to keep Mario and Luigi's art consistent with the other characters, but with a darker brown for contrast.

Maybe for Super Mario Bros and Lost Levels looking different, have a unique idle stance for each game, left arm lowered in Mario 1 and rasied up for Lost Levels.


I share this opinion. The outline looks nice, but to me it loses too much of the cool coloring in the overall character sprite.

Awesome work, pocket.

pocket

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #115 on: January 26, 2020, 02:44:12 am »
I'll leave the outline up to a new poll. Though I don't want to wait too long before I start working further on the SMB1 sprites so please don't wait to vote.

In other news, SMB3 Bowser is done and I think I did pretty good. Even better than SMB1 Bowser!



Although... Remember how I shared Bowser in that neat cape from the Japanese Box-Art and guides? Well I just wanted to try it out. See what we think.



Didn't think the Black eyebrows and Blond hair would look good so I just stuck with the cape and neck jewlery.

EDIT:  So the King of Grass Land and the King of Desert Land have swapped places, as per the result of the last poll. They share a palette so that all went fine. Decided King of Giant Land looks like a pretty heavy set guy so he's kinda fitting for his location. But it looks like the King of Iced Land is to small to replace with the Viking fellow, so that's disappointing.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 03:00:36 am by pocket »
Somebody alert me when a user friendly BS Zelda hacking tool is made. I will give my soul to work on a faithful SNES remake of Zelda 1.

MandatoryPixel

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #116 on: January 26, 2020, 03:17:41 am »
I'll leave the outline up to a new poll. Though I don't want to wait too long before I start working further on the SMB1 sprites so please don't wait to vote.

In other news, SMB3 Bowser is done and I think I did pretty good. Even better than SMB1 Bowser!



Although... Remember how I shared Bowser in that neat cape from the Japanese Box-Art and guides? Well I just wanted to try it out. See what we think.



Didn't think the Black eyebrows and Blond hair would look good so I just stuck with the cape and neck jewlery.

EDIT:  So the King of Grass Land and the King of Desert Land have swapped places, as per the result of the last poll. They share a palette so that all went fine. Decided King of Giant Land looks like a pretty heavy set guy so he's kinda fitting for his location. But it looks like the King of Iced Land is to small to replace with the Viking fellow, so that's disappointing.

The cape version looks really nice! It makes him stand out from his other appearances quite a bit. I'd go for that one, myself!

NiO

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #117 on: January 26, 2020, 03:40:59 am »
Without the outline, please... It does look consistent that way.

As already mentioned, just darker brown.

CanoeFan

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #118 on: January 26, 2020, 04:50:25 am »
I don't think that's going to be technically possible, but since there are two different Bowser fights in the SMB3 final level it would be cool if you could fight caped and uncaped Bowser depending on which room you fight him.
The shuffling around of kings to different worlds is something I really don't like at all and think that's going to far and has no basis in artworks as far as I know. 

Razieldemon

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #119 on: January 26, 2020, 06:02:01 am »
There are two rooms that are distinct from one another where bowser has the final fight... one accesible above and one below.

Is it possible to have both incarnations? And if so... should you use the cape may I suggest using another color for the cape? If you use color theory a dark blue might be more fitting. Or grey even.