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Poll

How should Super Mario Bros 1 backgrounds look?

Darker like the NES game
Stay lighter like All-Stars

Author Topic: Super Mario All-Stars Redrawn ( SMB2 Demo now available in OP )  (Read 141556 times)

julayla

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #140 on: January 27, 2020, 02:57:25 pm »
And next, we're moving onto the dogs. I have two options.



On the right is basically just based on the regular ol' dog from SMB3, just updated a little. And on the left is based on a pretty deep cut, this dog like creature from the Super Mario Bros. Anime movie, which fittingly enough, was actually a Prince transformed into a dog by Bowser.

It's not a complete likeness, since that thing had a caterpillar like body and a rounder head, I thought that would be for the best since not everyone would recognize it, but at least this way you get across that it's a dog.

Yeah, the blue one obviously does remind me of Kibidango (though I rather call this one a Pupper, kinda like how there's a Wiggler & Flutter). Also, I wonder if the art accurate hack can work on the GBA versions?

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #141 on: January 27, 2020, 03:19:20 pm »
This is absolutely fantastic.

For Phanto, I think the combination of the SMAS sprite and the illustration's colour scheme would look the best.  Both your new SMB3 Bowsers look great.  Maybe the poison mushroom could lose the top right pixel from the left eye and the top left pixel from the right eye to make it look a bit more sinister per the illustration?  The only sprite I'm not sold on is the angry sun one - I think the SMAS one captures its eyes and weird monobrow thing better - the pupils look to me a bit small in yours.

From what I understand this is probably way out of the scope of what you want to do, but one thing that's always bugged me about the SMB3 remake in SMAS is the dark world level backgrounds:



they just kinda totally killed the dark world vibe when remaking their backgrounds.

pocket

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #142 on: January 27, 2020, 06:12:59 pm »
I couldnt resist and tried something too... I tried to make a mix of both of your sprites, maintaining the old school pose of SMB1 but less static, aiming for a bit more natural look and as I said, trying to mix both ideas.

I did an smaller Mario, one a little edited with open mouth since he appears like that in most of the artworks, and the first one again but 1 pixel taller.

I also tried to make his nose like in the art, mostly kinda shinny.

Hope this can help you if you want to edit further or use them, feel free to use or modify them.



https://imgbbb.com/image/LkrKFn

If you need the 1x picture let me now, I had to use DA because no other site was working for me.

I'll take some of these tweaks into consideration, I think Mario would look strange with an open mouth at all times but in his jumping animation and victory poses it works really good. I still need to think about how I want Mario and Luigi to look in the story mode of SMB3, so I could possibly use some ideas from this there too, although considering SMB3 uses black outlines on everything it might not work.

I regret putting snow on top of the blocks. Right now I wish I turned the blocks white instead. Maybe you could consider doing that.

January 27, 2020, 11:50:46 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
or just let some of the levels with white blocks and some with snow on top. Wouldn't hurt to have some variety.

I quite like the snow on top of the bricks, it makes sense to me. That being said, I did consider changing the brown parts of the snow palette to a cool blue color so it didn't look exactly the same as the regular ground setting. It was another thing I was going to run a poll on once I could make a mockup.

Yeah, the blue one obviously does remind me of Kibidango (though I rather call this one a Pupper, kinda like how there's a Wiggler & Flutter). Also, I wonder if the art accurate hack can work on the GBA versions?

It's a shame that it won't end up in the final game. If we ever get a decent SMAS level hacking tool, maybe someday I can make my own hack that uses him. I can even have him change back into Prince Haru proper. 

As for if this will work with the Super Mario Advance games, it most certainly won't be compatible, but it should be easy enough to copy what i've done here over to Super Mario Advance, though if any character has new poses, a new one would have to be drawn.  I have no plans to make Advance versions of these games but if osmeone else would like to use my sprites for such a project, they have my blessing.

This is absolutely fantastic.

For Phanto, I think the combination of the SMAS sprite and the illustration's colour scheme would look the best.  Both your new SMB3 Bowsers look great.  Maybe the poison mushroom could lose the top right pixel from the left eye and the top left pixel from the right eye to make it look a bit more sinister per the illustration?  The only sprite I'm not sold on is the angry sun one - I think the SMAS one captures its eyes and weird monobrow thing better - the pupils look to me a bit small in yours.

From what I understand this is probably way out of the scope of what you want to do, but one thing that's always bugged me about the SMB3 remake in SMAS is the dark world level backgrounds:



they just kinda totally killed the dark world vibe when remaking their backgrounds.

I'd be all for adding new backgrounds that better match the world a level appears in but I'm not sure that's something I can do.  I can do it in Super Mario World thanks to Lunar Magic but all I can do in SMAS is edit existing graphics.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 06:42:14 pm by pocket »
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NiO

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #143 on: January 27, 2020, 06:37:21 pm »
Okie dokie, but it was intended for the SMB1 idle :p


pocket

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #144 on: January 27, 2020, 07:06:10 pm »
Okie dokie, but it was intended for the SMB1 idle :p
Oh, I figured, I made adjustments to my Lost Levels sprite based on what you did.


( nose shine will have to come later since I'd need to alter palettes for it )

I was just thinking out loud about using ideas people present for SMB3 since I don't know how i'm going to approach the player sprites there yet.
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NiO

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #145 on: January 27, 2020, 08:25:36 pm »
Oh, I figured, I made adjustments to my Lost Levels sprite based on what you did.


( nose shine will have to come later since I'd need to alter palettes for it )

I was just thinking out loud about using ideas people present for SMB3 since I don't know how i'm going to approach the player sprites there yet.

I like it, it looks faithful to source but also cartoony as the artwork.

The one made by Metalwario64 is good but too much 2D'ish in some way, thats why I tried to make a mix of both.

What are the rules you have for the SMB3 sprites?

To be honest I really like those sprites on NES, but didnt like them on SNES because as already mentioned, they look like a downgraded version from SMB2 and 3.

Maybe getting a free time I could try something again to help a bit.

pocket

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #146 on: January 27, 2020, 08:42:40 pm »
I like it, it looks faithful to source but also cartoony as the artwork.

The one made by Metalwario64 is good but too much 2D'ish in some way, thats why I tried to make a mix of both.

What are the rules you have for the SMB3 sprites?

To be honest I really like those sprites on NES, but didnt like them on SNES because as already mentioned, they look like a downgraded version from SMB2 and 3.

Maybe getting a free time I could try something again to help a bit.

I like the MetalWario64 sprites specifically because they feel a lot more like "upgraded" SMB1 sprites, while still being more faithful to Mario's art, so I plan to use them for SMB1 while using the sprites I've been working on for Lost Levels.  As I've said before, it bugs me that Lost Levels has the same exact look as SMB1, even though the physics were slightly different.  I want to tweak all the enemy sprites to look a little different from the SMB1 versions too.

As for SMB3, besides looking more like the official art, the main thing is that Mario and Luigi have to look like they fit with the rest of the game, so, keeping the black outlines. Or at least most of the outlines.

I'll admit, the black outlines have been a bit of a hurdle in making some enemy sprites look better. Spike here, for instance.



( although it doesn't help that making him smaller wasn't permitted because his spike ball was loaded behind him and risked being exposed )
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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #147 on: January 27, 2020, 10:14:38 pm »
I don't actually have anything meaningful to add to this thread at this time, I am only posting because I am just super-enthusiastic about this particular project. I want you to know that this is generating real emotions in me.

I want to play this, and I wish I could help more, but my energy is being gulped down like sodas by a 15 year old by life at this time.

Mario Bros. Plumbing, you clog em, we clear em... GO AND SAVE THE CITY
I never wanted to work in a pet shop, you know. I wanted to be...a lumberjack.

pocket

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #148 on: January 28, 2020, 02:01:08 am »
Here's a look at how some of the SMB1 enemies will look differently in Lost Levels.  ( Also Koopas in SMB1 got an update. I still hate how narrow their sprite is so I might have to edit them further. )



I'll be updating the OP with images similar to this instead of creating a whole new section for Lost Levels.

Also:



We now have mushroom platforms from the NES version of Lost Levels.

I don't actually have anything meaningful to add to this thread at this time, I am only posting because I am just super-enthusiastic about this particular project. I want you to know that this is generating real emotions in me.

I want to play this, and I wish I could help more, but my energy is being gulped down like sodas by a 15 year old by life at this time.

Mario Bros. Plumbing, you clog em, we clear em... GO AND SAVE THE CITY

Wow, thank you for the kind words, I'm glad something I've been working on can give someone such a strong reaction. It's alright if you can't be more hands on help, your encouragement is a pretty great form of help as well. I get really discouraged when something I work on doesn't get much of a response, so it's a really nice change of pace that so many people are not only showing lots of interest but are wanting to get involved with the project as well.  Thank you for your support!


EDIT:  Spriting Mario games is in my wheelhouse because they're not too big and detailed but at the same time, the smaller the sprite is the harder it gets to fit all the necessary details in, so the small player sprites have been some of the hardest to work with. I really think my SMB2 small Mario and Luigi sprites could use work for instance. Same for the Mario Bros. Arcade style sprites.  But I finished the standing pose for Lost Levels Small Mario and I think i'm finally satisfied.  Although I only have the one pose.

« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 04:51:19 am by pocket »
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Zimgief

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #149 on: January 28, 2020, 03:48:16 am »

His nose seems to be pointing too much downward to me (à la villagers in Minecraft). Otherwise, great!

I'm somewhat ambivalent about changing the enemy sprites in Lost Levels. Some of them look better because you iterated on them one more time (piranha plants), and other changed for the sake of change, and arguably less good (koopa troopas' legs).
Lost Levels on Famicom is an expansion of SMB, so it makes sense that it uses the same ressources (which helpes producing such expansions).
Immersion-wise, it also makes sense that background are differents as we are in another part of the kingdom, but not the enemies and items.
Fidelity would be restoring changes that disappeared between Famicom and Snes? :)
Just my thoughts, if that helps. :)

pocket

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #150 on: January 28, 2020, 04:38:37 am »

His nose seems to be pointing too much downward to me (à la villagers in Minecraft). Otherwise, great!

I'm somewhat ambivalent about changing the enemy sprites in Lost Levels. Some of them look better because you iterated on them one more time (piranha plants), and other changed for the sake of change, and arguably less good (koopa troopas' legs).
Lost Levels on Famicom is an expansion of SMB, so it makes sense that it uses the same ressources (which helpes producing such expansions).
Immersion-wise, it also makes sense that background are differents as we are in another part of the kingdom, but not the enemies and items.
Fidelity would be restoring changes that disappeared between Famicom and Snes? :)
Just my thoughts, if that helps. :)

I think I get what you mean about the nose, and I hope this makes it look better:



The Lost Levels stuff was kind of a personal decision on my part because A. The games have slight differences in physics ( especially when playing as Luigi ) and having the exact same sprites really screws with my expectations. And B. One of Modern 2D Mario's biggest problems is that the sequels don't do enough visual changing and the series has a pretty stale look to it because of it, I thought giving more visual distinctions than the original NES release had would make it a more appealing game.

That being said... after testing the game, I think the mechanical differences were toned down for the All-Stars version. ( At least when playing as Mario. Which is kind of a bad thing since some jumps require that extra boost from bouncing on an enemy that the original SMB2J had. )   And, as you said, some of my new sprites are worse.  Koopa troopas are always really difficult to work with.

So, I think it's time for a new poll, see if anyone else feels like Lost Levels having different enemy sprites is a good idea or not.


That being said, I'm still going to try and make and retain the tileset changes. I'd do background changes too if I could.
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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #151 on: January 28, 2020, 11:36:43 am »
great contribution, Metalwario64 and NiO  :beer:

These sprite models are amazing for Super Mario Bros. 1
I hope they can be reused in other Super Mario projects in a patch on Nintendo "NES" or SuperNes.







The last original SMB.3 sprite with full eyes, I always wanted to see it in the NES 8-bit, and with better colors than just black and reddish brown.



Pocket could improve the Princess Toadstool "Peach" in SMAS.
adding original blue eyes sprites to Peach.

CoolCatBomberMan

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #152 on: January 28, 2020, 03:22:05 pm »
Well, I finally discovered this project, and I'm impressed. One of my childhood fears was Dry Bones in SMB3 (NES), and your version brings the enemy surprisingly close to 5-year-old me's perception of it, to the point where I actually remembered being afraid of it in the first place. I was a little on the fence about changing the transformed kings, but thinking about it, it does make them stand out a bit more, and assuming the Koopalings decide the form the kings turn into, this makes them a little more creative than just looking at their father's minions and saying "this'll work." Though I really don't like the new Phanto. I did some digging, and it turns out the docile-looking Phanto actually comes from Yume Koujou: Doki Doki Panic, which SMB2 is essentially a ROM hack of. The conversion from DDP to SMB2 changed the sprite to be more menacing, but left the artwork untouched. Still, if you really want to be a stickler for original artwork, the Super Mario Bros. Super Show had its own version of Phanto that incorporated elements from both the Japanese artwork and the American sprite, pictured below.




NiO

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #153 on: January 28, 2020, 03:28:55 pm »
I would say just change some or make minimum changes in some enemies (about smb and smb lost leves)

Because, for example, the Koopas, changing their wings and maybe their eyes is enough too, it doesnt have to be super different.

Same with goombas, it could be the same face just different eyes, maybe lookig more towards Mario for example.

My suggestion would be that one, do small changes to those that you like a lot and keep a few untouched, try to add a personality that distinct them from one game to another without being too drastic about it.

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #154 on: January 28, 2020, 05:23:27 pm »


Tweaked this a bit more. I made his head rotate with his body (like in the remade sprites and future games). Someone commented that my previous one looked flat, and I think this solves it, while still being super faithful to the original. I actually kind of wish they had kept this type of walk cycle in the later 2D games instead of just making him kind of waddle.

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #155 on: January 28, 2020, 06:31:55 pm »


Tweaked this a bit more. I made his head rotate with his body (like in the remade sprites and future games). Someone commented that my previous one looked flat, and I think this solves it, while still being super faithful to the original. I actually kind of wish they had kept this type of walk cycle in the later 2D games instead of just making him kind of waddle.

It was me... And yes, that does help a lot to give him shape.

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #156 on: January 28, 2020, 09:57:31 pm »
Thought I'd start seeing what I could come up with for Mario 3's sprite.
I managed to make the frame of his walk cycle that they use for his idle stance look a little more natural when he's not moving while still looking like a natural part of the walk cycle.  I hope it looks alright.



And since some things look better in motion than they do as static images...



I hope it looks good. I've been trying to take everyone's criticisms into account so it will look as good as possible.

Well, I finally discovered this project, and I'm impressed. One of my childhood fears was Dry Bones in SMB3 (NES), and your version brings the enemy surprisingly close to 5-year-old me's perception of it, to the point where I actually remembered being afraid of it in the first place. I was a little on the fence about changing the transformed kings, but thinking about it, it does make them stand out a bit more, and assuming the Koopalings decide the form the kings turn into, this makes them a little more creative than just looking at their father's minions and saying "this'll work." Though I really don't like the new Phanto. I did some digging, and it turns out the docile-looking Phanto actually comes from Yume Koujou: Doki Doki Panic, which SMB2 is essentially a ROM hack of. The conversion from DDP to SMB2 changed the sprite to be more menacing, but left the artwork untouched. Still, if you really want to be a stickler for original artwork, the Super Mario Bros. Super Show had its own version of Phanto that incorporated elements from both the Japanese artwork and the American sprite, pictured below.





It's nice to hear you like Dry Bones. I had some doubts about how it came out. Those darned koopa shaped enemies are the bane of my existence. I still think it needs tweaking.

I don't think i'll be taking any inspiration from the Mario cartoons, although I have secretly wanted to make a hack based on the Mario cartoons. But I wouldn't be satisfied with just a simple reskinning. Hopefully the people working on MushRoms can make some progress by the time this project is done so I can not only make more Mario All-Stars hacks, but people will be able to use my sprites in their projects if they'd like.

As for Phanto, I'm so conflicted about it. I really do think the original sprite looks much better and as you said, the artwork was based on Doki Doki Panic. That being said, when it came time to draw new art for Mario All-Stars, they still based it on the original sprite, so I don't know. I think that's going to be another thing for the polls to decide before I finish this project.



Tweaked this a bit more. I made his head rotate with his body (like in the remade sprites and future games). Someone commented that my previous one looked flat, and I think this solves it, while still being super faithful to the original. I actually kind of wish they had kept this type of walk cycle in the later 2D games instead of just making him kind of waddle.

Looking good!
And I agree with you, the waddle is so strange and has been a real obstacle in making new Mario sprites with natural looking movements. It basically forced me to make minimal changes to the bodies of Mario and Luigi in SMB2, and will probably be an obstacle if I decide to power through Super Mario World.  I hope my experimenting with Mario 3's walk cycle looks decent.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 10:11:22 pm by pocket »
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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #157 on: January 28, 2020, 10:24:02 pm »
Thought I'd start seeing what I could come up with for Mario 3's sprite.
I managed to make the frame of his walk cycle that they use for his idle stance look a little more natural when he's not moving while still looking like a natural part of the walk cycle.  I hope it looks alright.



And since some things look better in motion than they do as static images...



I hope it looks good. I've been trying to take everyone's criticisms into account so it will look as good as possible.

It's nice to hear you like Dry Bones. I had some doubts about how it came out. Those darned koopa shaped enemies are the bane of my existence. I still think it needs tweaking.

I don't think i'll be taking any inspiration from the Mario cartoons, although I have secretly wanted to make a hack based on the Mario cartoons. But I wouldn't be satisfied with just a simple reskinning. Hopefully the people working on MushRoms can make some progress by the time this project is done so I can not only make more Mario All-Stars hacks, but people will be able to use my sprites in their projects if they'd like.

As for Phanto, I'm so conflicted about it. I really do think the original sprite looks much better and as you said, the artwork was based on Doki Doki Panic. That being said, when it came time to draw new art for Mario All-Stars, they still based it on the original sprite, so I don't know. I think that's going to be another thing for the polls to decide before I finish this project.

Looking good!
And I agree with you, the waddle is so strange and has been a real obstacle in making new Mario sprites with natural looking movements. It basically forced me to make minimal changes to the bodies of Mario and Luigi in SMB2, and will probably be an obstacle if I decide to power through Super Mario World.  I hope my experimenting with Mario 3's walk cycle looks decent.

Im so impressed with your work its not even funny. So I hate tossing out any criticism at all because its just been a brilliant treat to behold.

The Mario 3 sprite looks off. It might be I never noticed how out of proportion his head size was to his body, but because his head is so big it is making him look alot squatter than any of my memories serve. Im not sure if there is anything to be done.

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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #158 on: January 28, 2020, 10:46:29 pm »
Im so impressed with your work its not even funny. So I hate tossing out any criticism at all because its just been a brilliant treat to behold.

The Mario 3 sprite looks off. It might be I never noticed how out of proportion his head size was to his body, but because his head is so big it is making him look alot squatter than any of my memories serve. Im not sure if there is anything to be done.

There's not much I can do without risking losing too much detail in the face, I still have "Small Mario" to consider. Besides, '85 - '95 Mario was much more squat than what we're used to now.



There was also was a bit of lack of consistency with his proportions as well because for the same game they released this promo art.



You will find more often than not though that his head is quite large in early artwork from the series.
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Re: Super Mario All-Stars, Artwork Faithful Edition
« Reply #159 on: January 28, 2020, 11:11:54 pm »
 thought id try, i screwed up your colors but look at this