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Author Topic: Breath of Fire 2 - Defiance of Fate (SNES)  (Read 2726 times)

praetarius5018

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Breath of Fire 2 - Defiance of Fate (SNES)
« on: December 21, 2019, 02:29:00 pm »
Download v0.2

current ideas/motifs behind this project:
1) Each spell can be used once per battle but cost no AP (exception: dragon skills cost a fixed 3)
With some form of scaling damage/healing power this should make more spells relevant than the newest 2-3 out of a potential 32 spell slots you have per character.
Implementation is easy since one unique enemy skill can seal spells until end of battle, so the same mechanic can just be used.

2) LP replaces AP; this is kind of a secondary HP bar.
If taken HP damage exceeds 50% of remaining HP you additionally take some LP damage relative to the HP damage.
Fatal HP damage deals more LP damage; if at least 1 LP remains the death is avoided and some HP is recovered (this replaces the chance to survive fatal damage via guts stat).
Overall this should lower the risk of getting randomly one shot just from AI roulette choosing the right/wrong action while putting a limit to how long you can get by with just taking 90% damage hits and spamming full heals while ignoring (de)buffs.

3) The condition stat (tired/fine/great, measured on a 0-255 scale) gets a bit more involvement.
By default it only seems to go up (neither many battles, day/night changes nor death did decrease it in my tests) and it is mainly responsible for a massive crit rate (both weapon and spells) at the end.
Resting would now increase condition to 160 if it was below.
Taking damage would decrease it by 1, more if LP damage is taken.
Having a bad condition would reduce the received healing, at most -30%.

Not sure if any other events should influence condition tbh.

4) The whole shaman fusions feel a bit underdeveloped; half of them come only near the end of the game and besides stats and maybe changing the character's unique skill not much happens.
So once you unlock fusions at all you can already use all 6 shamans for fusion but until you find the real shaman the relevant stat bonus is halved, e.g. without earth shaman you'd only get +10% defense if the real bonus was +20%.
Additionally you receive a small bonus to damage dealt with attacks of the same type as a fused shaman (fire shaman boosts fire weapons and spells, dark shaman would apply that to non-elemental) and resist attacks of the element (non-elemental only -25%, other shaman -50%) but take 25% more damage from the weakness (fire shaman gives weakness to water/ice).

5) Stat growth is half fixed by character and half determined by the equipped weapon type.
To that end most weapons would be equippable by all and instead of sword/bow/etc. we'd work with weapon enhancement crystals or something.
E.g. a wind type weapon would give higher AGL growth but less defense and earth type would give more HP but lower AGL.

6) Bleu gets actual stat gains instead of reading from the random encounter table.

7) Permanently stat boosting items get axed; will probably replace them with some tomes that can teach spells.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 07:00:20 am by praetarius5018 »

praetarius5018

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - Defiance of Fate
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2020, 01:03:38 pm »
v0.2 (download above)
-added timed hits; this has no visual effect besides making damage numbers yellow or red (perfect timing) instead of white
-turn order is modified by the action used, e.g. item goes a bit sooner, spells vary depending on the exact spell used
-added 25 new skills/spells, made rest usable in battle as a small heal
-changed which spells are learned on level up, some are variable by equipped weapon type similar to how stat growth changes

justin3009

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - Defiance of Fate
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2020, 08:27:03 am »
This is getting pretty interesting. I'm going to take a test play through this sometime. It's not often you see any kind of Breath of Fire hack especially with any kind of new addition.
'We have to find some way to incorporate the general civilians in the plot.'

'We'll kill off children in the Juuban district with an infection where they cough up blood and are found hanging themselves from cherry blossom trees.'

the_E_y_Es

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - Defiance of Fate
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2020, 09:19:22 pm »
This is getting pretty interesting.

My thoughts exactly.

@praetarius I know your SD3 mod has been well received over at ngplus, so I have high expectations for this project. Good title BTW.

praetarius5018

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - Defiance of Fate
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2020, 06:19:33 am »
The difference is with SD3 I had good enough of an idea what to do to get to "1.0" that the end result would be satisfying.
Here?
1) I've no idea what to do with township, like 90% of the tenants are useless from the start (thief, riddlemaster) or after the next town (shops with low level gear) or are... plain dumb (+4 defense for a single battle).

2) I've no idea what to do with Deis; I took away her OP stat gains and made them only slightly above average. But since she can't use fusions there's little reason to use her over anyone else now.

3) With all the improved toughness of your team members I'd need to buff up monster but there's a limit of how far I can got; some monster already have about 400 atk but 511 is the hard cap.

justin3009

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - Defiance of Fate (SNES)
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2020, 07:11:37 am »
At that point it'd be almost better to rebalance everything to use 'lower stats' but that's a horrendously massive overhaul in itself and probably not worth it.

Deis herself.. yeah. If she doesn't have broken stats she's not really needed in place of anyone else. Essentially she's another character someone can decide to have in the group or not. As long as each character has their own uniqueness then it could be fun. The original made it pretty clear that Jean and Sten were going to be pretty useless for the end game. Katt's like an almost always need which is a problem.

It's been awhile since I played this game and was working on my old BOF2 project stuff, but Katt and/or Spar's Seed form were like the two top contenders to always have in your party due to their overwhelming broken strength and ability.

It's hard to figure out in a way how to balance things or make each character special on their own rights since a chunk of the game's staff seems pretty mediocre compared to Ryu/Katt's strength.
'We have to find some way to incorporate the general civilians in the plot.'

'We'll kill off children in the Juuban district with an infection where they cough up blood and are found hanging themselves from cherry blossom trees.'

praetarius5018

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - Defiance of Fate (SNES)
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2020, 08:26:25 am »
I guess lower stats or at least lower levels than in vanilla would be a natural result from my changes; encounter rate is now always as if smoke was active (on a rough test I got to average 30-35 steps instead of 15-20 before an encounter) and if you use smoke you should not see an encounter for 128 steps. And with LP and timed defense mechanic you should be able to get by with less levels overall.

I'd argue that Jean is only useless in early game but mid-to-end game he can destroy most undead with his angel spell and if you can spend the holy shaman his fusion's special can guarantee that random encounters end in 2 turns (charge then 999 damage to all and random mobs cap at 1000 HP) - bosses, yeah we probably got better.
From me he got Slice (physical attack and atk up on user), Dice (physical attack and def down on target) and Julienne (aoe physical, damage up for every target that has def down) as personal skills. That should keep him a bit more relevant.

Sten - errr, he exists to get you across certain gaps..
I gave him Trick Card (atk buff based on target's AGL, stacks with regular atk buff) and Sleight of Hand (regular physical aoe) in addition to his usual set of wind and fire spells.
Still not really a top contender to keep around longer than needed.

Katt can be a liability with her low HP and def, and now also LP; yes she can bring the pain but she can just as quickly hit the floor.
Spar's Seed form is rather meh; Spar has subpar STR (on average only Nina has worse gain per level) and the whips are weak as well, doubling that should roughly match Katt's regular attack power.
Plus you have to wait a turn before the attacks begin and with the endgame mobs that throw death spells around you don't want that. For the same delay you could have Jean in his knight form and just win then.

To complete the set of personal skills/spells I added so far to each:

Ryu:
he has his dragon forms (baby forms are not available, he gets the fire dragon instead in the first event) and now also warp (does that even count? well, noone else has to waste a spell slot on it)

Bow/Bosch:
Regeneration, mid strength aoe heal and gives +15 HP regen per turn

Katt/Lin:
Bait, target ally gains increased chance to be targeted (like Katt gains with Dare but lasts the whole battle) and gains chance for counterattack
Daring Strike, physical aoe with +25% atk that drops her def to 0 until end of turn

Rand:
First Aid, heal with +120 priority in execution order
Therapie, mid strength aoe heal and restores 5 condition
Stone Wall, target ally gains def up, agl down effects and until end of turn def = 511

Nina:
Open Wounds, deals more damage the lower % the target's HP are
Overcharge, target ally gains x2 atk until end of turn, can exceed the 511 cap

Spar/Aspara:
Recharge, spells that have been used this battle can be used again
Vanish, target ally becomes less likely to be targeted until end of battle (like Sten's skill but without def loss)
Bait, same as Katt

Deis:
Divine Grace, moon drop effect (aoe revive, 150 HP heal, status cure)
Word of Power, 100% stun no question asked (bosses auto recover after 1 turn, so you get exactly one free turn)

vivify93

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - Defiance of Fate (SNES)
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2020, 09:29:20 pm »
I noticed you're using the retranslation's names, too. Is it compatible with it or nah? Sorry for asking a question like this, I know you aren't historically fond of them.
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praetarius5018

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - Defiance of Fate (SNES)
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2020, 02:27:06 am »
It is based on the retranslation, as in it is already included.
No idea what gave the idea that I don't like those...

justin3009

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - Defiance of Fate (SNES)
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2020, 08:09:31 pm »
That's kind of what I mean on characters. Sten, especially, only has his overworld gimmick. Otherwise in battle he's pretty much outranked by everyone at the end of the game. There's no real reason to use him beyond when he joins you in that part of the game. Even then he's pretty mediocre.

Same with Jean and most others. They have very specific circumstances where they're useful otherwise they just aren't cut out for most of the game. Not to say no one can use them but it does feel like Sten, Jean, Spar (Unless fused) and even Bow sometimes are very poorly done minus some specific instances.

I can't judge too much though, it's been forever since I played. I just remember on my time, Sten and Jean did not hold up well with the rest of the group as the game went on.

The changes here might help mitigate some of this at least. It adds a new variety to the characters which is greatly needed.
'We have to find some way to incorporate the general civilians in the plot.'

'We'll kill off children in the Juuban district with an infection where they cough up blood and are found hanging themselves from cherry blossom trees.'

vivify93

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - Defiance of Fate (SNES)
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2020, 01:21:24 pm »
It is based on the retranslation, as in it is already included.
No idea what gave the idea that I don't like those...
Awesome, thanks for letting me know. I just figured that you don't really like to be bothered with trivial questions.
All my life I've tried to fight what history has given me.

praetarius5018

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - Defiance of Fate (SNES)
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2020, 05:08:55 am »
The changes here might help mitigate some of this at least. It adds a new variety to the characters which is greatly needed.
I think it might also be related that you have 9 characters total but one is forced and thanks to no leaked exp it is highly encouraged to just stick with your 3 choices apart from the solo sections...
put another way - there's no incentive to use more than your core team.

ThegreatBen

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - Defiance of Fate (SNES)
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2020, 07:49:26 am »
If you you repoint it so that all characters share the hero's current experience stat then they would all level fairly evenly whether in the party or not.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 09:39:28 am by ThegreatBen »

praetarius5018

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - Defiance of Fate (SNES)
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2020, 08:35:46 am »
That wouldn't really address how useful the characters themselves are;
most would probably still stick to their 3-4 main guys.

I think this game needs an actual reason to use more characters after the solo scenarios are done.


edit:
also every character has their individual exp requirements, so making them identical would result in very different levels.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 12:47:10 pm by praetarius5018 »

justin3009

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - Defiance of Fate (SNES)
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2020, 01:28:47 pm »
I think it might also be related that you have 9 characters total but one is forced and thanks to no leaked exp it is highly encouraged to just stick with your 3 choices apart from the solo sections...
put another way - there's no incentive to use more than your core team.

Yep that's exactly what I mean. By EXP leaking do you mean members not in your active party getting experience? It's probably possible to do something like that but it'd have to be a small portion of the experience. It might help out a bit in the long run but it wouldn't overall solve the problem I don't think. (Also, I'm not sure how it'd work in battle if they leveled. I wonder if it'd still state that character leveled up or not).
'We have to find some way to incorporate the general civilians in the plot.'

'We'll kill off children in the Juuban district with an infection where they cough up blood and are found hanging themselves from cherry blossom trees.'

praetarius5018

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - Defiance of Fate (SNES)
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2020, 07:24:58 pm »
Its at least not something I want to add, at least the level up part.
I've changed stat gains and skill learning from level up to be at least partially dependant on the used weapon type, so if benched party members would gain lets say 50% exp it could quickly happen that a character gets "ruined" for what a player had planned without them noticing;
for example if the player wants a character to gain stats for weapon type A (mostly STR focus) except on level 20 where that character learns a skill depending on the equipped weapon he wants the skill from set B (a support set with low STR but could give the ATK buff spell at that level), so with leaked exp that could add an annoying amount of micro management if you have to babysit 2-3 characters that way...

I don't think that it would achieve the goal here; no matter how leaked exp is handled or if it is even present, in the final dungeons you still only need your 3 chosen guys + forced Ryu.
Maybe if the battle engine supported switching characters on the fly something could be done e.g. by splitting the final boss into 2-3 phases, one with the main group and one with 4 members not used - would be the only group battle w/out Ryu, I think.


edit:
thinking about it... with timed hits as a non-trivial aspect the incentive to stick to the same group is even bigger...
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 03:38:15 pm by praetarius5018 »

ThegreatBen

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - Defiance of Fate (SNES)
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2020, 05:48:11 pm »
A while back I was trying to help one of the guys making an editor here identify all the enemy data, we realized that the graphical data isnt stored with the stats.

Since you seem to know your way around the rom do you know how and where its stored? (Sprite packet, assembly, palette...) this would be a great addition to the data crytal here.

praetarius5018

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - Defiance of Fate (SNES)
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2020, 06:06:11 pm »
Not really, sorry.
Though I think the sprite data is not stored per monster but per formation or something weird like that;
I tried to modify a single monster formation, replace one creature type with another and the sprite was completely messed up. Likewise a single byte controls the presence/position of all 6 monster slots, quite a weird setup that.

Though thanks for reminding me that I should add the ram values I found to datacrystal wiki.

ThegreatBen

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Re: Breath of Fire 2 - Defiance of Fate (SNES)
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2020, 09:24:13 am »
That's too bad, but thanks for the answer.