News: 11 March 2016 - Forum Rules
Current Moderators - DarkSol, KingMike, MathOnNapkins, Azkadellia, Danke

Author Topic: Pokémon FRLG: Sevii Expanded  (Read 2628 times)

Thirteen 1355

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 537
    • View Profile
Pokémon FRLG: Sevii Expanded
« on: November 27, 2019, 09:52:15 am »
So, I don't know if people here are a lot into Pokémon hacking. There seems to be a seperate community for that. However, I don't enjoy these bordered-off communities, so I'll just post stuff here.

My true expertise on ROM hacking lies with the third generation Pokémon games. I decided to use this expertise to expand and improve on the Sevii Islands content in Fire Red. While I loved these islands as a kid, I now realise they feel kind of lacking in substance. Some dungeons reward you with barely anything, others are just a single room that would be used for events (which never happened). I want to hear ideas on how the Sevii Islands could be made more 'complete' or expanded.

Right now I got:
  • The three roaming Legendary Beasts (which normally you can only catch one of) are no longer roaming, Instead, they appear in various Sevii island dungeons I felt lacked a reward. They usually appear at the end of an already existing dungeon (Suicune appears in a small cavern at the end of Icefall Cave), but I'd like to hear if it's better to make entire sections specifically for these Legends.
  • Weather effects have been added to various Routes on the Sevii Islands.
  • Gym Leaders can be rematched in the old woman's house on Seven Island (the one with the crates yes). They will, like the E4 rematches in this game, have teams containing Pokémon from Johto, but not Hoenn.
  • Two event Pokémon will be added, Celebi and Jirachi (Mew already is in Emerald). The items you will need to activate their events will be located on the event islands of Ho-Oh/Lugia (Navel Rock) and Deoxys (Birth Island). This means you will still need to use a save editor, or a cheat code to obtain the event items for these two islands. I wanna keep it this way for the sake of consistency with the official games. I want this game to feel as official as possible.
  • Gym Leaders can be rematched in the old woman's house on Seven Island (the one with the crates yes).
I'd like to hear suggestions on what else could be added/improved onto the Sevii Islands.
Helicoptering about till I find some ROM hacking treasure.

Shadic

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Pokémon FRLG: Sevii Expanded
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2019, 04:49:10 pm »
It may be outside the scope of your hack, but a proper Physical/Special split in FR/LG would be amazing.

That + your expanded content would be the perfect improvement hack.

Thirteen 1355

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 537
    • View Profile
Re: Pokémon FRLG: Sevii Expanded
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2019, 05:12:00 pm »
I'd prefer to keep consistency with Gen 3 norms, specifically Emerald, which I won't edit except for an Elite Four rematch. Therefore I very likely won't add Physical/Special patches  :)
Helicoptering about till I find some ROM hacking treasure.

MandatoryPixel

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Pokémon FRLG: Sevii Expanded
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2019, 07:51:44 pm »
Cool idea! I always liked the Sevii Islands, but as you said, there's not a whole lot to them once you finish the little storyline.

If I had to suggest one idea, I think adding a battle against Professor Oak you can do once you finish the Sevii Islands storyline would a lot of fun. There was a battle against him programmed into the original first generation games, but it went unused, so you can't do it without glitches/cheats. I've always thought that it would've been cool if FRLG brought it back as a final battle akin to Red in the Johto games. Most of your ideas seem to be using mechanics and features that already exist in FRLG, so maybe this isn't the kind of idea you're looking for... but I figured I'd throw it out there!

Also, to give a bit of feedback, I think it'd be better if the items for the event Pokémon were made naturally available in the game, like the Mystic and Aurora Tickets. I can definitely understand the desire to keep the game feeling official, but since the events aren't available anymore, I feel like it'd be more fun to use the items to expand the game itself even further, rather than requiring cheat codes. Maybe they could be rewards for completing difficult tasks - the Mystic Ticket for completing the Regional Pokédex, for instance. If you're set on keeping them locked behind codes, that's fine! Just figured I'd give my two cents on it.

PowerPanda

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
    • View Profile
Re: Pokémon FRLG: Sevii Expanded
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2019, 06:54:57 pm »
It may be outside the scope of your hack, but a proper Physical/Special split in FR/LG would be amazing.

That + your expanded content would be the perfect improvement hack.

You're looking for Mr.Dollsteak's patch. It ports 7th gen content to 3rd Gen. So there's a physical/special split, fairy type, new attacks, etc.

Thirteen 1355

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 537
    • View Profile
Re: Pokémon FRLG: Sevii Expanded
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2019, 02:48:29 am »
Cool idea! I always liked the Sevii Islands, but as you said, there's not a whole lot to them once you finish the little storyline.

If I had to suggest one idea, I think adding a battle against Professor Oak you can do once you finish the Sevii Islands storyline would a lot of fun. There was a battle against him programmed into the original first generation games, but it went unused, so you can't do it without glitches/cheats. I've always thought that it would've been cool if FRLG brought it back as a final battle akin to Red in the Johto games. Most of your ideas seem to be using mechanics and features that already exist in FRLG, so maybe this isn't the kind of idea you're looking for... but I figured I'd throw it out there!

Also, to give a bit of feedback, I think it'd be better if the items for the event Pokémon were made naturally available in the game, like the Mystic and Aurora Tickets. I can definitely understand the desire to keep the game feeling official, but since the events aren't available anymore, I feel like it'd be more fun to use the items to expand the game itself even further, rather than requiring cheat codes. Maybe they could be rewards for completing difficult tasks - the Mystic Ticket for completing the Regional Pokédex, for instance. If you're set on keeping them locked behind codes, that's fine! Just figured I'd give my two cents on it.

Admittedly, These are good points. I'll weave the event items into the island quests.

As for Oak, that's a great idea. I remember having put a team together for him in another improvement hack I attempted. I remember it being more interesting than the unused Gen. 1 team. Ooh yeah, I remember him having a Celebi in his team, which he'd give to you once you beat him.

Nowadays I feel the connection between such a major character and a Mythical Pokemon would be too explicit to feel official, though I intend to make a little time travel backstory play out (involving Oak and him abandoning his ambition for battle) once you enter Celebi's hiding place with the corresponding event item.

Jirachi I put in Altering Cave. This cave will be exactly like it is in the official games, but if you have the corresponding event item in your pocket, you will enter an 'Altered Cave', which contains the event exclusive wild Pokemon and Jirachi.

November 29, 2019, 02:10:47 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Sevii Dungeons and Rewards:
-   Offshore Platform=Raikou
-   Tanoby Ruins extension=Entei
-   Icefall Cave extension=Suicune
-   Catch three Beasts, show to ???=MysticTicket (leads to Navel Rock)
-   Navel Rock=Lugia & Ho-Oh
-   Pattern Bush=Letter (leads to Lost Cave extension)
-   Lost Cave extension=Celebi
-   Dotted Hole extension=Meteorite (leads to Altering Cave extension)
-   Altering Cave extension=Jirachi
-   Rocket Warehouse extension=AuroraTicket (leads to Birth Island)
-   Birth Island=Deoxys
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 02:10:47 pm by Thirteen 1355 »
Helicoptering about till I find some ROM hacking treasure.

MandatoryPixel

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Pokémon FRLG: Sevii Expanded
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2019, 01:05:38 pm »
Admittedly, These are good points. I'll weave the event items into the island quests.

As for Oak, that's a great idea. I remember having put a team together for him in another improvement hack I attempted. I remember it being more interesting than the unused Gen. 1 team. Ooh yeah, I remember him having a Celebi in his team, which he'd give to you once you beat him.

Nowadays I feel the connection between such a major character and a Mythical Pokemon would be too explicit to feel official, though I intend to make a little time travel backstory play out (involving Oak and him abandoning his ambition for battle) once you enter Celebi's hiding place with the corresponding event item.

Jirachi I put in Altering Cave. This cave will be exactly like it is in the official games, but if you have the corresponding event item in your pocket, you will enter an 'Altered Cave', which contains the event exclusive wild Pokemon and Jirachi.

I can agree that making Oak own one of the event Pokémon might be a little much, but I do think that him having one of the tickets/items could possibly be a cool idea! Maybe he could give it to you as a final reward after you beat him, saying "I received this a while ago, but I don't have the time to figure out where it goes..." or something like that. Then the other ones would be obtained elsewhere, I guess. :P

I like the idea with Jirachi! Finding secret event items to get to secret areas sounds like fun.

Pape29018

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Pokémon FRLG: Sevii Expanded
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2019, 03:31:10 pm »
Would it be possible to battle the unchosen avatar? If the player chooses Red, then you can battle Green. If the player chooses Green for their avatar, then you can battle Red. I was thinking of the event involving Green and Mewtwo in Let's Go Pikachu/Let's Go Eevee. You encounter a legendary/mythical pokemon, and battle Red/Green for it. I was thinking of Red/Green is/was looking for Mew or any other legendary/mythical.

The other would be battling Brendan and May for Latias and/or Latios. Maybe being able to get both after completing a sidequest for them or after battling them.

Putting HM08 Dive into the game somewhere to be found in the Sevii Islands.

Thirteen 1355

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 537
    • View Profile
Re: Pokémon FRLG: Sevii Expanded
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2019, 08:16:39 am »
Would it be possible to battle the unchosen avatar? If the player chooses Red, then you can battle Green. If the player chooses Green for their avatar, then you can battle Red. I was thinking of the event involving Green and Mewtwo in Let's Go Pikachu/Let's Go Eevee. You encounter a legendary/mythical pokemon, and battle Red/Green for it. I was thinking of Red/Green is/was looking for Mew or any other legendary/mythical.

The other would be battling Brendan and May for Latias and/or Latios. Maybe being able to get both after completing a sidequest for them or after battling them.

Putting HM08 Dive into the game somewhere to be found in the Sevii Islands.

That sounds very interesting! I'll sure plan on doing the Green/Red battle. However, Mew and Latios/Latias are already in Emerald, so I want to keep them there. You'll still need both Gen. 3 games to get them all. That's why I put Jirachi and Celebi in here.

I've looked at inserting Dive and its mechanics a while ago, and I will give it another look. I do remember it being incredibly hard, though. It's never been done before.

Oak could own the Letter key item I think. The Letter is a reference to Oak's Letter, from Platinum. Oak could give you the letter, and you'll need to deliver it to somebody else. Once you've given the letter, you'll be directed to the Lost Cave by the receiver. Then, you'll see a vision of Oak's past made by Celebi, after which he arrives and you'll be able to catch it.

It has to do with a certain Ghost Pokémon trainer  :P

Right now I'm working on giving the final Gym Leader a small event so that he doesn't just appear in the Rematch House straight away. Wouldn't make much sense for Giovanni. So you'll battle him in a hiding place first, where he'll use more Rocket-ish Pokémon. Then he'll head to the Rematch House, where you can battle him using his Ground team.

I want to do that by making him appear in said hiding place once you've beaten the Elite Four/Champ for the first time. The thing I am having some troubles with is having him not appear in that place UNTIL that point. Matter of flags.
Helicoptering about till I find some ROM hacking treasure.

DNA

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Pokémon FRLG: Sevii Expanded
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2019, 12:07:22 pm »
I understand the idea behind having Mew stay on Emerald, however, Mew is a Gen 1 Pokémon, it would made more sense to have him in those games.
Since nowadays legitimate ways of getting this Pokémon and also trade them in Gen 3 games is pretty much impossible, I would propose to, at the very least, make it possible to catch all 151 Gen 1 Pokémon.

Chronosplit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1409
    • View Profile
Re: Pokémon FRLG: Sevii Expanded
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2019, 03:49:37 pm »
I understand the idea behind having Mew stay on Emerald, however, Mew is a Gen 1 Pokémon, it would made more sense to have him in those games.
Since nowadays legitimate ways of getting this Pokémon and also trade them in Gen 3 games is pretty much impossible, I would propose to, at the very least, make it possible to catch all 151 Gen 1 Pokémon.
I agree with this.  Especially since Emerald's event actually never made it outside of Japan.  Even though it was fully translated the trigger never was released in any event outside of Japan.  It technically never really appeared, in a situation not unlike the Azure Flute in the next generation.

There's ways to do this that still can make it feel authentic.  In FR251 I put Mew in the Victory Road area where you fought Moltres in the original games.  IIRC Pokemon Throwback actually put Moltres in it's original place, and put Mew on Mt. Ember where it could only be fought if you brought a Mewtwo with you.  Either way, you'll have to modify one bit to make Mew obey (I forget where it was).

Thirteen 1355

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 537
    • View Profile
Re: Pokémon FRLG: Sevii Expanded
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2019, 06:50:38 pm »
To counter the fact of Mew being unavailable regularly, I'd simply make a hack for Emerald that makes event Pokémon available inside the game, and give it a rematchable Elite Four/Champion.

If I decide to get Mew in FRLG after all, I'd transplant the entirety of Faraway Island, or create an entirely new dungeon, and swap Mew with Jirachi (which will then appear in the Emerald hack). Neither Mt. Ember or Victory Road feel like places a Mew would hide at. Older versions of Throwback actually brought Faraway Island to FireRed. I have no flipping clue as to why newer versions lazily put Mew in Mt. Ember, makes absolutely no sense to me. I prefer keeping Mew in Emerald and giving Jirachi to FireRed, but an alternative could be to swap the two around.

Since I want to keep the games' close to each other, I don't attempt to make this a catch 'm all hack like Throwback or Complete Hoenn. It's easy to link up with the newest emulators. An alternative is PKHex. I tried many complete dex hacks in the past, until I realised the social element is what makes Pokémon. Without it, Pokémon is a mediocre RPG series in my opinion, that's only become worse recently, lacking RPG elements and exploration.

Hence why I'll make the same edits for LeafGreen.

Coincidentally, I resumed hacking today. I got Giovanni's stuff working. He will give you the Aurora Ticket upon defeat. Next I'll work on implementing a battle against the player character you didn't select (Leaf if you chose boy, Red if you chose girl). It remains to be seen if FRLG contains any vars/flags/special commands that change this trainer's sprite to the gender you didn't select, however. RSE does have it, for May/Brendan, but FRLG doesn't use any kind of similar trick.

This trainer will battle you in Cerulean Cave, spotting you on the path to Mewtwo. (S)he will give the 'Meteorite' item upon defeating him/her. Meteorite will change the layout of Altering Cave, making Jirachi appear in there.

After that I'll focus my efforts on a Prof. Oak battle in Pattern Bush. Upon defeating him, he gives the Letter key item, which, when given to Lady Selphy on Five Island, will activate the Celebi event in Lost Cave.

Finally, I decided to make Entei and Suicune guardians of the Ruby and Sapphire. They will initially look like the 'rewards' for reaching the end of Mt. Ember and Dotted Hole. Upon defeating/catching/fleeing from them, however, you'll see they were guarding the Ruby/Sapphire.

Raikou will be inside the new dungeon near Seven Island, Offshore Platform. Tanoby Ruins will now contain a new room (only accessible after solving Tanoby Key) containing an old woman, who, upon showing her the Legendary Beasts, will give you the Mystic Ticket, leading you to Navel Rock.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 06:56:10 pm by Thirteen 1355 »
Helicoptering about till I find some ROM hacking treasure.

DNA

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Pokémon FRLG: Sevii Expanded
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2019, 08:24:59 am »
I would much rather see Faraway Island being ported over.
I too believe that the Sevii Islands could have been much more. Back in Gen 2, after finishing the main game, you could go back to Kanto, that's an entire region with gyms and stuff. Sevii Islands seem to be similar to the TCG's Southern Islands and also Orange Islands, but the thing is that the Orange Islands had so much more. Had their own minor league with 4 new gyms and a champion, had regional Pokémon way ahead of their time. I would say these could be fun additions, but that also sounds like a whole other extra project on top of yours. I would be willing to help, but I've never really hacked anything. I am a software developer though, so I don't think it would be an incredibly hard job.

ikarus19

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Pokémon FRLG: Sevii Expanded
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2019, 10:19:50 am »
perhaps you could do something with Trainer Tower (located near Seven Island iirc), such as better prizes, more challenging floors, or meaningful boss trainers. it always felt a bit bland compared to the battle frontier in emerald.


MandatoryPixel

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Pokémon FRLG: Sevii Expanded
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2019, 11:37:38 am »
Next I'll work on implementing a battle against the player character you didn't select (Leaf if you chose boy, Red if you chose girl). It remains to be seen if FRLG contains any vars/flags/special commands that change this trainer's sprite to the gender you didn't select, however. RSE does have it, for May/Brendan, but FRLG doesn't use any kind of similar trick.

Actually, on this note, have you considered adding battles against other protagonists? To go along with your idea of keeping it feeling official, I imagine it'd just be the Gen 1-3 protagonists, but it's always felt cool to me when hacks - or even the official games, on the rare occasions when they do - let you battle the protagonists of the other games. Maybe you could tie some reward (like a starter from each generation) into the battles? So Red/Leaf, Gold/Kris, and Brendan/May! I'm not really sure how far you want to go with this project, but that's another idea if you're still looking for them, haha.


I would much rather see Faraway Island being ported over.
I too believe that the Sevii Islands could have been much more. Back in Gen 2, after finishing the main game, you could go back to Kanto, that's an entire region with gyms and stuff. Sevii Islands seem to be similar to the TCG's Southern Islands and also Orange Islands, but the thing is that the Orange Islands had so much more. Had their own minor league with 4 new gyms and a champion, had regional Pokémon way ahead of their time. I would say these could be fun additions, but that also sounds like a whole other extra project on top of yours. I would be willing to help, but I've never really hacked anything. I am a software developer though, so I don't think it would be an incredibly hard job.

Heh, I actually thought about suggesting some new gyms in my original post, but I wasn't sure if that would be beyond the scope of the project or not. Certainly, though, the post-game in the Johto games is the best for a reason. :) Some new gyms on the Sevii Islands would be awesome, and would definitely help to make them feel more substantial than they are now.

Thirteen 1355

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 537
    • View Profile
Re: Pokémon FRLG: Sevii Expanded
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2019, 02:19:05 pm »
Adding Gyms on Sevii is certainly possible. I will probably do that once these initial steps have been completed.

I like Mew staying in Emerald though, and Jirachi being in this game. It's a nice cross-reference. I will, however, make Mew regularly obtainable in Emerald. Remember that the 151th Pokémon doesn't count towards Dex completion.

As for fighting other protagonists, Red was the first. Fighting Ethan and all of them doesn't work since they aren't trainers yet.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 02:42:35 pm by Thirteen 1355 »
Helicoptering about till I find some ROM hacking treasure.

MandatoryPixel

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Pokémon FRLG: Sevii Expanded
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2019, 02:49:29 pm »
As for fighting other protagonists, Red was the first. Fighting Ethan and all of them doesn't work since they aren't trainers yet.

Right you are! Totally slipped my mind. I remember a scenario writer from Game Freak once posted a tweet that said the first and third generations occur at the same time, so maybe the Gen 3 protagonists could still work, since they'd finish their journey at the same time. It could also work to tie all of the Gen 3 games together, in a way. Just a thought!

Looking forward to seeing what you do for additional Gyms! This expansion is sounding like it'll be a lot of fun!

Thirteen 1355

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 537
    • View Profile
Re: Pokémon FRLG: Sevii Expanded
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2019, 04:57:53 pm »
I should probably start sending some images.


Seven Island Rematch House


Offshore Platform


Three Isle Port - Edited

And a video, regarding Leaf:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeLalFKoYOo
I noticed one missing dot. The weird warp/transition spots are there for testing purposes.


December 14, 2019, 05:05:20 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Oh yeah, editing the Trainer Tower is way tougher than most parts in the game (same goes for Emerald's Battle Frontier). I don't know if I could do anything about that.

December 15, 2019, 07:58:13 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

Jirachi sprite.

December 15, 2019, 08:35:02 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

In-game sprite

December 15, 2019, 09:25:24 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Right you are! Totally slipped my mind. I remember a scenario writer from Game Freak once posted a tweet that said the first and third generations occur at the same time, so maybe the Gen 3 protagonists could still work, since they'd finish their journey at the same time. It could also work to tie all of the Gen 3 games together, in a way. Just a thought!

Looking forward to seeing what you do for additional Gyms! This expansion is sounding like it'll be a lot of fun!

Yes, I think I'm going to make Brendan a trainer you can battle. I'm planning to put him at Navel Rock, whereas you'll fight Red at Navel Rock in Emerald (basically the same events from two different viewpoints). This may also make me decide to allow the player to catch only one of the two Gen. 2 legendaries per game. Red would catch Lugia/Ho-Oh, Brendan would catch Ho-Oh/Lugia.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 09:26:34 am by Thirteen 1355 »
Helicoptering about till I find some ROM hacking treasure.

Thirteen 1355

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 537
    • View Profile
Re: Pokémon FRLG: Sevii Expanded
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2020, 10:24:50 am »
I finished the Celebi event, and that should wrap up everything. Only thing I wanna do is improve my Cloaked Cavern dungeon. Then I'll port all the maps and script to a clean version of FR and LG.

Is there anything else I could add?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 08:03:25 pm by Thirteen 1355 »
Helicoptering about till I find some ROM hacking treasure.

MandatoryPixel

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Pokémon FRLG: Sevii Expanded
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2020, 04:20:32 pm »
I finished the Celebi event, and that should wrap up everything. Only thing I wanna do is improve my Cloaked Cavern dungeon. Then I'll port all the maps and script to a clean version of FR and LG.

Is there anything else I could add?

What did all the additions end up being?