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Author Topic: NES games showing 25 colors at once?  (Read 543 times)

PresidentLeever

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NES games showing 25 colors at once?
« on: August 14, 2019, 05:58:01 am »
http://www.thealmightyguru.com/Games/Hacking/Wiki/index.php?title=NES_Palette

Were there any games that did or is that info wrong? I thought it was 13 max.

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Cyneprepou4uk

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Re: NES games showing 25 colors at once?
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2019, 08:10:33 am »
Main background color
4 palette sets for background * 3 colors each
4 palette sets for sprites * 3 colors each

Total 25 colors. Battle city for example (in certain cases)
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PresidentLeever

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Re: NES games showing 25 colors at once?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2019, 08:14:08 pm »
Really? Never seen a game with more than 17 so far.
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Bregalad

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Re: NES games showing 25 colors at once?
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2019, 04:01:18 pm »
In practice, colours are reused among palettes. For example with sprites, most sprites needs a black outilne to look good, so it's common for games to have a "black" colour in all 4 palettes and only the other 2 colours differs.

The other thing is for the BG, the colour palettes are attributed to 16x16 pixel areas. If you want any colour to be shared between 16x16 areas using a different palette, other than the backdrop colour, it has to be repeated among BG palettes. This is less common, but still.

For games showing all 25 colours simultaneously, you'd have to look at the oldest games before black outlines became common, such as Legend of Zelda. Ironically games having more simultaneous colours aren't the one with the best graphcis, by far.

Also how did you measure this and claim you've never seen a game with more than 17 ? I doubt you can count this yourself.

PresidentLeever

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Re: NES games showing 25 colors at once?
« Reply #4 on: Today at 07:10:38 am »
Ok can you post some examples?

Just a color counter in paint.net on various screenshots of the best looking games. I haven't looked into it thoroughly.

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Disch

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Re: NES games showing 25 colors at once?
« Reply #5 on: Today at 02:21:05 pm »
Your fallacy is you are equating "most colors on screen" with "best looking".

As has already been explained, putting 25 colors on the screen at once is not difficult and is something the NES is fully capable of doing without any tricks.  Most games just don't do it, however, because it wouldn't look very good since each 16x16 block is restricted to 4 colors.

If you are interested in the technical limitations of the NES, you need to look no further than the palette/PPU viewer in an emu like FCEUX:



This is from Final Fantasy.  The circled color is the background color.  The X'd out colors are not actually visible (they're transparent -- hard to explain).  But everything else can be unique.

Everything else is 3*8 = 24, plus the background color is 25.

Note, however, the duplicates.  There's a lot of black in the bottom row because sprites want to have a black outline, and so every sprite palette also needs to have black in it.  There's also lots of greens because this is from the overworld and pretty much every tile on the overworld has some part of it that's grassy, so every palette also needs a green.


Now, you could VERY EASILY change all those duplicate colors to all be unique.  And that would not be technically difficult at all -- a totally novice romhacker could do it for their very first hack.  But it would probably look like absolute garbage.  The map would look extremely blocky as there'd be rigid/hard color breaks on 16x16 boundaries when the palette changes.