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Author Topic: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated  (Read 33871 times)

Spooniest

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #160 on: September 01, 2019, 11:00:33 am »
A well-programmed CRT shader does wonders for the look of the games if emulating, too.

I'm only actually using the shader "tv_out_tweaks" for a bit more natural of a color profile, and a bit of bilinear filtering to soften the edges of stuff.

For the scanlines, to be absolutely specific, I am setting my GPU to 2x the native resolution of the SNES (256x240, or when doubled, 512x480), and letting RetroArch (running the core bsnes mercury [balanced]) chop off 16 pixels on the top and bottom, resulting in the resolution of 512x448. After that, it's just the Onscreen Overlay's "Scanlines" setting, which is under "Wii" in the Overlays folder.

Then, in OBS (for streaming), I'm telling it to render at 854x480 canvas resolution, to make it a widescreen aspect, which people on phones/modern TVs can see properly. And yeah it took about six years of toying with stuff before I got all this down. Now, if only I could get a job doing it...heh.
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Spooniest

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #161 on: September 13, 2019, 04:59:51 am »
Auzer's line in the WoR Jidoor event has Relm's name too close to the edge of the text box.

It's showing up as:

"That's when I heard about Relm
's magical ability"

Or some such. I'd reformat that.
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hairy_hen

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #162 on: September 13, 2019, 04:04:05 pm »
I've run into that problem a couple times before.  It seems to only happen when a player character's name runs right up against the edge of the text box: for some reason the punctuation after their name isn't treated as being part of the same word, so the line break happens in the wrong place.  I'm not sure if it's an error in the game's text-wrapping function, or if it's getting confused by the reduction in the width of the font, or something else.  In the latest update I reworded that line so that the error no longer happens.


So I finished my playthrough the other day... still taking a little time for it to sink in, I guess.  After having worked on it for so long, it seems a little strange for it to be 'over'.  There's still some things left to do; I spotted a few more lines that could stand to be reworded or reformatted, and I still need to finish making notes for the annotated script.  I've already fixed some more mistranslations, most of which were hiding in the alternate ending dialog that happens if you defeat Kefka without getting all your characters back together, and I'll be checking again to try to find any others I don't yet know about.  So there will be at least one more update in the near future, and then later I can possibly look into making a version with alternate character names or whatever else along those lines.

Since this was only the second time I've played FF6 all the way through, in an odd way it was at once both familiar and unfamiliar.  Some general thoughts:

- The game definitely deserves the praise it gets.  From the great story to the engaging gameplay and fantastic music, the level of creativity on display here is very impressive.  It's easy to see why it's as popular and enduring as it is.

- The story is more engaging when the dialog is accurately translated.  I felt more connection to the characters and their situation when I knew what they were really meant to be saying.  With the confusing and inaccurate lines eliminated and replaced with correct information, it was much easier to understand what was happening, both in the larger details of the plot and in the subtleties of how the characters speak to each other, and how this matches up seamlessly with their onscreen animations.

- Despite the numerous and sometimes severe translation errors of the SNES version, some of the writing from that version did actually help make things better, so I was glad to be able to keep some of its ideas when they didn't have negative effects on anything else that was happening. 

- The story does become less immersive in the second half, due to there being little plot to speak of beyond finding everyone.  It's a bit harder to stay interested in what's happening at that point, and the sheer length of it can be almost fatiguing at times, but finally being able to pulverize Kefka's sorry behind makes it all worth it in the end.

- The difficulty curve could stand to be rebalanced a bit, in order to tone down overpowered abilities and equipment combinations.  I made it more challenging for myself by staying at a lower level throughout, and deliberately avoided using things like Ultima as much as I could, but it would be better if you didn't have to go out of your way to do that.

- The visual style of FF6 really benefits from something that can at least approximate the CRT look.  Rough pixelated edges do the graphics no favors, but seeing them the way the game designers did at the time makes it clear what they were going for.

- It's hard to imagine how there could ever be a sequel.  With magic ceasing to exist completely, and the world still being in a mostly-ruined state at the end, I don't know what else there would be that could sustain a whole game's worth of plot.  Almost certainly for the best to simply leave it there and not try to revisit it.  That said, I do wish the ending cutscenes had given some idea what the characters were going to do with themselves afterwards, as FF4 and FF5 did.  The scenes of them escaping from the collapsing tower were cute, but this probably would have been a bit more satisfying.  Ah well.


So... yeah.  Those are my somewhat disordered thoughts after completing it.  A somewhat imperfect, but nonetheless extraordinary game, lots of fun to play, and a real pleasure for me to work on.  For anyone who plays this version, I hope you'll have as good as time with it as I did.

Spooniest

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #163 on: September 13, 2019, 06:04:59 pm »
I've run into that problem a couple times before.  It seems to only happen when a player character's name runs right up against the edge of the text box: for some reason the punctuation after their name isn't treated as being part of the same word, so the line break happens in the wrong place.

It's probably something to do with the fact that the character name being called is code, rather than simple text, as the game understands it. Its formatting rules are probably different than normal text, because you can name a character WWWWWW if you want to (you lunatic).

Thus, the text for a character name that is alterable and must be called by a code ("A0," "A12," etc.) doesn't have the same rules for being attached to the text that is right next to it (as " 's " is, to show ownership by the character, in this case Relm) as normal text would. They never know how long it's going to be, so the rules for text formatting must be different.
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hairy_hen

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #164 on: September 16, 2019, 01:45:57 am »
I think you're right; that's the most likely explanation.  I actually used 'WWWWWW' a number of times while setting the formatting of the battle dialog, since that doesn't have a text-wrapping function at all, so it helped to show the maximum length any given line containing character names could be.

There is at least one remaining mistranslation that I haven't corrected yet.  After you get Cyan back in the second half and talk to Lola, one of the npc's in Maranda will apparently say, "Could that have been you, Cyan?  You look so confused, maybe you'd better go home."  I know this is wrong because it makes no sense; not only does it not seem to fit into the context of anything that's happening, it's quite unclear what is being referred to, and it's not even clear whether the npc is speaking or if this is supposed to be Celes or someone else responding.  There are a great number of other vague and weird lines like this scattered throughout the SNES version, and every one of them turned out to be mistranslated, so I'm positive that's what happened here too.

Unfortunately, Mato doesn't seem to have this line in his videos, and Kwhazit doesn't cover it either, so I haven't been able to correct it so far.  I'll have to find it in the Japanese version of the game and get someone who knows Japanese to look at it.  I had assumed it was one of the many unused lines of dialog found in the script, but I encountered it in my playthrough this time, so I'm not content to leave it as it is.

mkwong98

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #165 on: September 16, 2019, 01:52:32 am »
- It's hard to imagine how there could ever be a sequel.  With magic ceasing to exist completely, and the world still being in a mostly-ruined state at the end, I don't know what else there would be that could sustain a whole game's worth of plot.  Almost certainly for the best to simply leave it there and not try to revisit it.  That said, I do wish the ending cutscenes had given some idea what the characters were going to do with themselves afterwards, as FF4 and FF5 did.  The scenes of them escaping from the collapsing tower were cute, but this probably would have been a bit more satisfying.  Ah well.

A prequel which takes place during the war 1000 year ago would be easy. A sequel is possible too, as we only see three gods who made a mess with the Earth, who knows how many others are out there. Just need to say the power of those three shielded the Earth from the others and now Earth is open to new comers to take over and we can build up a story that permanently resolve this problem.

Spooniest

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #166 on: September 16, 2019, 08:30:24 am »
A prequel which takes place during the war 1000 year ago would be easy. A sequel is possible too, as we only see three gods who made a mess with the Earth, who knows how many others are out there. Just need to say the power of those three shielded the Earth from the others and now Earth is open to new comers to take over and we can build up a story that permanently resolve this problem.

I don't see why upping the scale of threat would necessarily be the only way to go about making a sequel to the first game. Simply saying "There's more magic gods" is only one way to 'talk magic back to life' as it were. It's literally magic, there's all kinds of excuses that could be thrown at it, good and bad.

The Phoenix Esper revives itself 500 days later, and then revives the rest of the Espers out of despair, let's say. Or Terra, Strago and Relm find some kind of ancient artifact that, when they're exposed to it, revives their magical power. Terra's human form starts dying early and Setzer pays for Celes to do a bunch of research on ways to 'cure' her, but they end up reviving magic and have a new problem of some kind.

See what I'm saying? This (FF6) is a universe heavy on lore, there's ways you can stretch and pull it that won't cause it to lose its shape too badly.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 08:35:40 am by Spooniest »
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Omnislash

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #167 on: September 16, 2019, 12:14:10 pm »
Hello Hairy_Hen. I'm glad i found your hack. I played the original and Rodimus Primal's awesome patch a bunch of times. And this time, i was looking to experience a more accurate/closer to the japanese version. Your use of the Legends of Localization work can only mean greatness. I was going to play the Relocalization project, but your version seems to be better at the accuracy goal.

How ready is the current version? Is it "done" besides very minor things? Can i play it without thinking "maybe i should wait a little more"?

About Cyan. He's my favorite character in the game, i like your approach to his dialogue. Is this hack using the change that makes his SwdTech/Bushido faster? If not, can that be installed without problems? That change really makes him more usable.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 09:13:29 pm by Omnislash »

Tomato

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #168 on: September 16, 2019, 02:05:39 pm »
There is at least one remaining mistranslation that I haven't corrected yet.  After you get Cyan back in the second half and talk to Lola, one of the npc's in Maranda will apparently say, "Could that have been you, Cyan?  You look so confused, maybe you'd better go home."  I know this is wrong because it makes no sense; not only does it not seem to fit into the context of anything that's happening, it's quite unclear what is being referred to, and it's not even clear whether the npc is speaking or if this is supposed to be Celes or someone else responding.  There are a great number of other vague and weird lines like this scattered throughout the SNES version, and every one of them turned out to be mistranslated, so I'm positive that's what happened here too.

I'm in a rush but in Japanese it's roughly something like:
"Cyan... was it? You have a look of doubt/confusion/uncertainty on your face. At times like that, maybe returning to your home/homeland/home town can help?"

hairy_hen

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #169 on: September 16, 2019, 07:44:49 pm »
Hey, thanks!  That really clarifies things a lot.   :)

It's actually rather interesting that this seemingly throwaway line quite handily exemplifies the issues with the SNES translation as a whole.  At first glance the two appear superficially similar, but we can quickly see that the SNES version is missing some of the information that gives context to who is talking and what they're referring to.  And the remainder that is present is strung together in a way that is vague and misdirects the focus into another direction.  There's even a story/gameplay hint in there that got blurred over and obscured.

Taken individually they might seem minor, but ultimately it was the sheer proliferation of incoherent lines like this, and the amount of information that had gone missing as a result, that caused me to start working on this project in the first place.  I'm glad that this line turned out to be such a good example of what I've been talking about.

CoolCatBomberMan

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #170 on: September 17, 2019, 01:13:56 am »
Hooray for Mato!  :beer:

Spooniest

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #171 on: September 18, 2019, 02:52:42 am »
I don't seem to be able to encounter Doom Gaze at all.

EDIT: Ok, it seems to have been a peculiarity of how the core I was using to run the game (bsnes_mercury_balanced) was executing the code. Running the game in Snes9x, I was able to find and defeat Doom Gaze.

A couple more notes I'll add...

There is an ellipse being followed without a space by a timedelay code in the Dream Oath Opera somewhere. You have to put a space after ellipses before you put a timedelay code, or the ellipse won't print all the way out onscreen before the timedelay has expired.

Cyan's response to General Leo from the Imperial Banquet has a similar problem.

And finally, the battle message "Death's aura is shaking" is no longer the correct name for Fiend God.

Demon God: Red winged guy with spear
Fiend God: Black skinned guy stuck in a mountain with bat wings
Goddess: It's a lady almost wearing a few sashes

"Fiend God," when you fight it, and it gets near death, will start flashing and then a message pops up. It still reads "Death's Aura is shaking," despite the monster in question being renamed "Fiend God."
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 07:25:10 am by Spooniest »
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hairy_hen

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #172 on: September 19, 2019, 09:02:05 am »
I noticed that one while playing too.  Evidently I had neglected to update this line after having renamed the enemies.  In the next version it will read as, "Fiend's aura shakes violently!"  I'll take a look at the ellipses as well.

How ready is the current version? Is it "done" besides very minor things? Can i play it without thinking "maybe i should wait a little more"?

About Cyan. He's my favorite character in the game, i like your approach to his dialogue. Is this hack using the change that makes his SwdTech/Bushido faster? If not, can that be installed without problems? That change really makes him more usable.

I almost missed seeing this, probably because posts from new users don't show up until they've been approved by a moderator (this whole thread took a while to appear back when I started it, since I was new then).  I'm planning to make an update to the project in the next couple days, but at this point the bulk of the work is done and I'm only fixing small textual issues.

I'm glad to hear you like how I wrote Cyan.  I couldn't tell you how much time I spent going through archaic writing to try to make him sound authentic.  Writing in that style is difficult even when you know how the grammar works; I can spot errors a mile away, but really making it sound like it's of that time takes work.  His sword techniques charge up at their default speed in this version, but their timing can be modified without conflicting.

Omnislash

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #173 on: September 19, 2019, 12:13:11 pm »
I noticed that one while playing too.  Evidently I had neglected to update this line after having renamed the enemies.  In the next version it will read as, "Fiend's aura shakes violently!"  I'll take a look at the ellipses as well.

I almost missed seeing this, probably because posts from new users don't show up until they've been approved by a moderator (this whole thread took a while to appear back when I started it, since I was new then).  I'm planning to make an update to the project in the next couple days, but at this point the bulk of the work is done and I'm only fixing small textual issues.

I'm glad to hear you like how I wrote Cyan.  I couldn't tell you how much time I spent going through archaic writing to try to make him sound authentic.  Writing in that style is difficult even when you know how the grammar works; I can spot errors a mile away, but really making it sound like it's of that time takes work.  His sword techniques charge up at their default speed in this version, but their timing can be modified without conflicting.

Do you know if this (https://www.romhacking.net/reviews/1292/) SwdTech speed hack would work without problems?

Also, i noticed a problem that also happens in the Relocalization Project so it might something with some hack in common. In the battle against Vargas, i couldn't get the dialog about how to do the Blitz to show up. It's supposed to happen after Vargas hits a certain HP number, not hard to do, but it didn't for me even attacking him normally non stop until the timer runs out.

Besides that i had a couple question about the text. Why did you keep "SwdTech" and Terra as a "Sorceress"? Aren't those wrong? And do you plan on releasing a version of the patch without the Woolsey stuff in Kekfa's dialogue? It isn't my thing exactly, i kinda like Woolsey Kefka, but that might be a thing who bothers a lot of people who want a faithful translation like this.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 01:21:30 pm by Omnislash »

Heaven Piercing Man

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #174 on: September 19, 2019, 10:24:01 pm »
The thing is that a de-Woolseyified Kefka would be just a guy saying villain stuff. What makes Kefka, well, Kefka, is that his insanity is reflected in his speech. Japanese does that by mixing different politeness levels and weird wording using the tools of the language itself. English has no such things, so it's a rare case where punching up the dialogue is necessary, to the point even the Japanese realized it was a better way of writing him - his original incarnation was not notable for the Japanese fandom.

Spooniest

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #175 on: September 20, 2019, 01:54:42 am »
Besides that i had a couple question about the text. Why did you keep "SwdTech"

This was discussed earlier in the thread, just for the sake of information...There has been some discussion about it.

and Terra as a "Sorceress"? Aren't those wrong?

"SwdTech" is not technically wrong, it's just clumsy. "Sorceress" is actually a change. Woolsey accidentally called her a "Sorceror."

Sorceress = Feminine.
Sorceror = Masculine.

Some words in English are gendered, if they are referring to gendered beings. Particularly the names of professions and practitioners of arts, as in this case, sorcery.

And do you plan on releasing a version of the patch without the Woolsey stuff in Kekfa's dialogue? It isn't my thing exactly, i kinda like Woolsey Kefka, but that might be a thing who bothers a lot of people who want a faithful translation like this.

Heaven Piercing Man nailed it. Kefka could never sound as "unhinged" in English through mere text, the way he does in Japanese. For that part of his character to come through in English takes a bit more flamboyance. English can be kind of a colorless language when it comes to written words, but waaaay more dramatic when it's spoken aloud. Japanese is kind of the opposite; the drama is inherrent in the text itself, and delivery is more or less standard no matter what, except in extreme cases, if I am understanding what little I know correctly.
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Omnislash

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #176 on: September 20, 2019, 02:06:52 pm »
This was discussed earlier in the thread, just for the sake of information...There has been some discussion about it.

"SwdTech" is not technically wrong, it's just clumsy. "Sorceress" is actually a change. Woolsey accidentally called her a "Sorceror."

Sorceress = Feminine.
Sorceror = Masculine.

Some words in English are gendered, if they are referring to gendered beings. Particularly the names of professions and practitioners of arts, as in this case, sorcery.

Oh, i know the word Sorceress. What i meant is, isn't her job class supposed to be something like Magic Knight, Magitek Knight, Magitek Elite?

And i agree with you guys about Kekfa. I like Woolsey's Kefka, i just feel that a lot of people that are into accurate translations hate anything Woolsey.

KingMike

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #177 on: September 20, 2019, 02:27:00 pm »
I'd have considered Sorcerer/Sorceress close enough if space limits had been an issue.

I believe she was once also called a Witch, which is probably also close enough to get the idea. (I know Warlock is the male term for that, but I don't think it is quite as widespread in usage.)
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hairy_hen

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #178 on: September 20, 2019, 10:10:33 pm »
The word 'Magitek', or anything resembling it, doesn't actually exist in the Japanese version, so any use of it is technically a deviation from the original writing, but that depends on what your goals are in translating.  I ended up removing most instances of 'Magitek' from the script; there are still a few remaining, but I decided that it should only appear in the specific context of magic and technology being combined.  So the only times you'll ever see it here is when referring to the lab where they give people magic powers, and the armor used by Imperial soldiers.

The Japanese script has two general terms for magic: 'maho' tends to be used to refer to magic as a general force, and 'mado' seems to refer to it as a skill that people can use.  The distinction between them is a bit vague, can vary between authors and works, and may not always be consistently applied in every case.  Generally I tended to write the former as 'magic' and the latter as either 'magic power' or 'sorcery'.  I wasn't altogether strict about this, though, since my primary concern was to make sure the writing sounded good in English, so the usage was determined to some extent by what worked within a given sentence.

People with powers are referred to in Japanese with terms that mean 'a person who uses mado'.  Terra has no special title that I'm aware of; and Celes is never referred to as a "Magitek Knight" or anything like it (since that doesn't exist in the original script), but rather as a battle sorceress or words to that effect.  I ended up calling Celes a 'mage warrior' in her introduction.

I've talked at some length about Kefka earlier in the thread, so I won't repeat all of what I wrote before, but translating him directly doesn't always work all that well since his style relies upon grammatical and cultural contructs that have no direct equivalents in English.  He'll say rude things in an overly polite and reverential way one minute, say ordinary things in an extremely arrogant way the next, go on a murder spree while giggling like a little boy having fun with toys, and generally act like a freak by thwarting the expectations of how someone should express themselves.  Inflating the craziness of his speech seems to have been Woolsey's way of portraying what would have been dulled down in a more literal translation, and in this case it seemed to me that conveying the feeling behind the words was more important than the actual words themselves.

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #179 on: October 23, 2019, 03:23:35 pm »
Shadow's dialog when you first meet him (which is before you name him) calls him Kupop instead of possibly ???. Also another user in RHDNbot thread for this release said there's an inconsistency with the brave ring being called the hero ring in the auctioneer's dialog.  Thanks for the hard work!