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Author Topic: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated  (Read 25110 times)

svenge

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The current version of your patch on the site (v1.1) has that old formatting problem with the gil (i.e. "Got 96Gil", instead of "Got 96 Gil"), which is problematic.  I checked my old IPS patch (the one with a new "il" squish-tile) to see if it would work with v1.1, and indeed it does.

"Gil patch" link

Chicken Knife

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@Hairy Hen

Congratz on getting your script published. It's a great feeling! :)

Any updates on a bugfix addendum? I'm a little OCD and have a hard time enjoying a game when I know something as significant as evade is broken. Once you have some of that stuff going, I'd love to give it a play and offer any feedback. I think I've gone through every possible script of FF6 and I'm looking forward to adding yours to the collection. I also partner with a great Japanese translator who helps with my own script writing if you ever need to bounce around any ideas or questions.

hairy_hen

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Thanks!  It’s great to see it up there after working on it for a long time.

This version actually contains 185 bug fixes (!) from a master patch that was compiled not too long ago.  Sketch, Evade, Vanish/Doom, and a whole bunch of others I’d never heard of are all included.

I think the Gil thing happened because of what order the patches were applied this time.  I’ll have to go back and check so I can make sure to get it right next time.  I was hoping there wouldn’t be any need to update again for a while, but I guess it’s easy for little things to creep in.

Anyway, I’m glad it’s out there, and I really hope anyone who plays it will find it worthwhile.   :)

Dzumeister

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Thanks!  It’s great to see it up there after working on it for a long time.

This version actually contains 185 bug fixes (!) from a master patch that was compiled not too long ago.  Sketch, Evade, Vanish/Doom, and a whole bunch of others I’d never heard of are all included.

I think the Gil thing happened because of what order the patches were applied this time.  I’ll have to go back and check so I can make sure to get it right next time.  I was hoping there wouldn’t be any need to update again for a while, but I guess it’s easy for little things to creep in.

Anyway, I’m glad it’s out there, and I really hope anyone who plays it will find it worthwhile.   :)

Does that mean when it gets updated with the Gil patch, that'll make it 1.2?  :P
free sluffy

Chicken Knife

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Thanks!  It’s great to see it up there after working on it for a long time.

This version actually contains 185 bug fixes (!) from a master patch that was compiled not too long ago.  Sketch, Evade, Vanish/Doom, and a whole bunch of others I’d never heard of are all included.

I think the Gil thing happened because of what order the patches were applied this time.  I’ll have to go back and check so I can make sure to get it right next time.  I was hoping there wouldn’t be any need to update again for a while, but I guess it’s easy for little things to creep in.

Anyway, I’m glad it’s out there, and I really hope anyone who plays it will find it worthwhile.   :)
Sounds great. That sounds like the most extensive collection of bug fixes yet. And I appreciate you including the vanish/doom bugfix. Some people enjoy having exploits left in but I'm not one of them.

I just took a second look at your hack description and the readme file and they don't make any note of the bugfixes. I would include that because my assumption it was not included was based on reading your notes. Also there is a paragraph about Cyan that appears twice in the description that you probably will want to edit.

If I can manage to tear myself away from my current sequence of continuously replaying Seiken Densetsu 3, I'll give your translation a go. Hopefully the gil thing will be sorted by then also.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 04:44:27 pm by Chicken Knife »

Special

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And I appreciate you including the vanish/doom bugfix. Some people enjoy having exploits left in but I'm not one of them.

And this affects you how? If you don't want it don't literally cast vanish + doom and exploit it.

svenge

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Just looked at the new patch in FF3usME and do like it a lot, even if we have differing opinions on a couple typographical conventions (e.g. marking sounds effects like *cough* or not, and Daryl vs Darill).  That said, I did find a couple things that could possibly be addressed for v1.2 beyond the Gil spacing issue and have put them in a Pastebin page as to keep the thread tidy.

EDIT:  I did notice one last thing:  For Town Dialog entry #367, instead of "Banon and co." I think "Banon's group" or "Banon, Edgar, and Terra" would look better.  Obviously the latter would be formatted as "<A4>, <A0>, and Banon" instead of using those two names themselves.

EDIT 2:  One more:  The word "O" in "O shrouded one" in Town Dialog #1900 should be capitalized as well.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2019, 01:53:19 am by svenge »

hairy_hen

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Final Fantasy 6 (Legends of Localization-based script rewrite) - v1.1
« Reply #87 on: July 25, 2019, 08:47:28 pm »
Getting the text formatting to look its best is always a good thing, so I'm open to fixing it up some more.

I actually did use asterisks to denote coughs and other sound effect words when I was writing the script, but for some reason when I saw how it looked in the actual game, I found I didn't quite like it.  I'm not sure why, but I guess it's something about the font that makes it look a bit off to me.  It seems okay without them because I think it is understood that the characters are not actually saying them as words.  For the spelling of Daryl, Mato indicated that her name in Japanese can be rendered into English any number of different ways, so I just picked the one I thought looked best and used it consistently.

I think there was some kind of copy/paste error in the project description when it got moved from Translations and into the Hacks category, so I made a fix for it this morning as soon as I saw it, and also added a mention of bug fixes at the same time.  Hopefully that shows up soon.  It looks like the submission queue is filling up again, so I might have to wait a bit before making any more updates.

@Dzumeister: Thanks for the great review!  I wasn't expecting any this soon, but that definitely made my day.

Dzumeister

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Re: Final Fantasy 6 (Legends of Localization-based script rewrite) - v1.1
« Reply #88 on: July 26, 2019, 01:47:22 am »
Getting the text formatting to look its best is always a good thing, so I'm open to fixing it up some more.

I actually did use asterisks to denote coughs and other sound effect words when I was writing the script, but for some reason when I saw how it looked in the actual game, I found I didn't quite like it.  I'm not sure why, but I guess it's something about the font that makes it look a bit off to me.  It seems okay without them because I think it is understood that the characters are not actually saying them as words.  For the spelling of Daryl, Mato indicated that her name in Japanese can be rendered into English any number of different ways, so I just picked the one I thought looked best and used it consistently.

I think there was some kind of copy/paste error in the project description when it got moved from Translations and into the Hacks category, so I made a fix for it this morning as soon as I saw it, and also added a mention of bug fixes at the same time.  Hopefully that shows up soon.  It looks like the submission queue is filling up again, so I might have to wait a bit before making any more updates.

@Dzumeister: Thanks for the great review!  I wasn't expecting any this soon, but that definitely made my day.

No problem! Thank you for all the work you put into this hack!

As for sound effects, I think they should always be differentiated from the dialogue with parentheses/asterisks/symbols, even if it is generally understood that the characters aren't actually saying those words. It just keeps things consistent.
free sluffy

Chicken Knife

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And this affects you how? If you don't want it don't literally cast vanish + doom and exploit it.
It effects me by knowing there's a significant bug present in the gameplay. Call it perfectionism or OCD if you will--just as I did above. @Hairy Hen, as you can gather by Special's response, including this will be controversial. In spite of FF6 being easy as pie in general, people like to break the hell out of games.

No problem! Thank you for all the work you put into this hack!

As for sound effects, I think they should always be differentiated from the dialogue with parentheses/asterisks/symbols, even if it is generally understood that the characters aren't actually saying those words. It just keeps things consistent.
It's funny... For my own script writing I've actually been debating for the last few days what the ideal way is to handle these "sounds" or onomatopoeia in English. I've used asterisks for awhile now but after looking carefully at the professional conventions around this, I think I'm going to switch to parenthesis.

**UPDATE

I read over your updated description and it brought another question to mind.

Quote
For the sake of consistency with the Japanese version, spells and items have been renamed to match their modern counterparts
I'm not sure what this means actually.

I'm very curious whether you stayed closer to English conventions with spell / item names or if you went for a stricter equivalency of the Japanese. For instance, Phoenix Tail Feather (or an abbreviated Phoenix Feather) vs the typical English Phoenix Down. Another hotly divisive topic I'm sure.  :laugh:
« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 10:05:02 am by Chicken Knife »

Rodimus Primal

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It effects me by knowing there's a significant bug present in the gameplay. Call it perfectionism or OCD if you will--just as I did above. @Hairy Hen, as you can gather by Special's response, including this will be controversial. In spite of FF6 being easy as pie in general, people like to break the hell out of games.
It's funny... For my own script writing I've actually been debating for the last few days what the ideal way is to handle these "sounds" or onomatopoeia in English. I've used asterisks for awhile now but after looking carefully at the professional conventions around this, I think I'm going to switch to parenthesis.

**UPDATE

I read over your updated description and it brought another question to mind.
I'm not sure what this means actually.

I'm very curious whether you stayed closer to English conventions with spell / item names or if you went for a stricter equivalency of the Japanese. For instance, Phoenix Tail Feather (or an abbreviated Phoenix Feather) vs the typical English Phoenix Down. Another hotly divisive topic I'm sure.  :laugh:

Well considering he used TWUE as a base ROM (which should be noted in the description and Read Me BTW), he probably is using the updated canon names for spells and such. So Firaga, Cura, etc. But if you really want to bring this to a direct LoL translation, you probably should rename all the items and such to be closer to Japanese despite what Square currently calls them in English.

So Terra, Sabin, and Cyan should be Tina, Mash, and Ceyenne respectively.

Phoenix Down should be Phoenix Tail.

Crusader to Jihad

Moogles should be moglies.

Katarin should be Catalina.

And perhaps you might want to remove ALL of the Woolseyims too to a more direct translation, if you haven't done so already in later revisions. Even though Slattery used some of them, Kitase loved them too (he even said they were better than the Japanese, especially with Kefka) they should be closer to the direct Japanese here.

You've probably read my thread recently and everyone has noted which ones everyone here doesn't like including "Son of a Submariner." That should be the straight forward "Argh. Dammit."

Two others I don't know if you changed yet or not is when confronted Kefka at the end. "Self-Help book" is a Woolseyism, as is "Monument to non-existence." Suggestions "All this back talk. You people make me sick." and "I'll destroy everything and make a world of death!"

The soldier that laughs about fire should have his Beavis and Butt-head like speech reverted to "Burn to death!"

But what you do of course, is your own choice.

Chicken Knife

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Well considering he used TWUE as a base ROM (which should be noted in the description and Read Me BTW), he probably is using the updated canon names for spells and such. So Firaga, Cura, etc. But if you really want to bring this to a direct LoL translation, you probably should rename all the items and such to be closer to Japanese despite what Square currently calls them in English.

So Terra, Sabin, and Cyan should be Tina, Mash, and Ceyenne respectively.

Phoenix Down should be Phoenix Tail.

Crusader to Jihad

Moogles should be moglies.

Katarin should be Catalina.

And perhaps you might want to remove ALL of the Woolseyims too to a more direct translation, if you haven't done so already in later revisions. Even though Slattery used some of them, Kitase loved them too (he even said they were better than the Japanese, especially with Kefka) they should be closer to the direct Japanese here.

You've probably read my thread recently and everyone has noted which ones everyone here doesn't like including "Son of a Submariner." That should be the straight forward "Argh. Dammit."

Two others I don't know if you changed yet or not is when confronted Kefka at the end. "Self-Help book" is a Woolseyism, as is "Monument to non-existence." Suggestions "All this back talk. You people make me sick." and "I'll destroy everything and make a world of death!"

The soldier that laughs about fire should have his Beavis and Butt-head like speech reverted to "Burn to death!"

But what you do of course, is your own choice.
Agreed that more directly translated character, spell and item names would seem to be the most congruent choice with this project. For our favorite samurai, I think it should be Cayenne like the pepper, no? I believe there might also be a more direct way to translate spell names in many cases.

As far as TWUE, I really can't grasp why so many people come at you to make elements more literal. The goal of the project couldn't be clearer from simply the name of it. 

Overall, I think it's great to have different projects with different stated goals so that the player can ultimately enjoy different experiences. But alas, with the FF fanbase, emotions always seem to run high.

Masaru

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Re: Final Fantasy 6 (Legends of Localization-based script rewrite) - v1.1
« Reply #92 on: July 26, 2019, 01:04:27 pm »
it's curious how from all these projects that want to retranslate final fantasy VI, at this point no one has the idea to fix the rpgone script or port the LoL script into that version, i don't have problem with using TWUE+Add-ons as a base, the question is that thing has me doubting.

(sorry if i put that topic a lot, even if they weren't talking about it)
« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 01:45:34 pm by Masaru »

hairy_hen

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Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated v1.1
« Reply #93 on: July 26, 2019, 02:11:20 pm »
I don't understand it when people get into arguments about these things either.

My project has always been about getting the story details correct, and to capture as much of the tone and nuance of the original script as possible, while still leaving a bit of room for differences if something can be said in a more interesting way that doesn't change the larger meaning of what is happening in the scene.  Everything else was secondary.

Originally the project was designed to be an addendum to Woolsey Uncensored because all I was interested in doing was writing the script, and didn't want to get into changing other things.  All the item names and everything else were intended to be the same as they are in that version.  My initial submission to the site in that category was rejected, because at the time I hadn't realized that addendum patches weren't supposed to be made from the unmodified game, which I had done in order to make things simpler for the end user.

Once that became clear to me, and once I realized that the additional bug fixes I had tried to include were causing glitches to appear in the text, I decided to rebuild the hack from the ground up, using resources available on ff6hacking.com, so I had to spend some time learning more about how to do that sort of thing.  The end result is that this version is newly built and could be resubmitted as an independent project, and was able to include a vast number of bug fixes without issue.  That it is built differently is visible from the fact that character class names now only appear in the Status screen, and not on the main menu, because I used a different version of the patch that adds them.

Redoing the hack in this way meant that I suddenly had to make decisions about item names and so forth, which I had not given much thought to previously.  I used the official names for almost everything because it was the simplest way to do it, and because they are generally close to the Japanese as far as I know.  I recently became aware that more literal ways of translating certain names have been debated by various people, but I admit I haven't paid all that much attention to it.  Like I said, focusing on the story is higher on my priority list.

My writing is rarely literal, certainly not to the point of being pedantic.  If it were, I would have Locke say things like, "That was your false face," rather than, "They were using you and controlling your thoughts."   In the end, it doesn't make much difference to me whether something is called "Phoenix Down", "Phoenix Tail", or even "Phoenix Ass-feather", as long as you clearly know what it does.   ;)

Now that the project is out, I'm going to change the thread title to reflect its name in the database.  Initially I referenced Mato's website in the title because I didn't want to seem like I was taking credit for translation work not actually done by me, but going forward it will clarify which project this thread is about for anyone who is just finding out about it.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 07:33:24 pm by hairy_hen »

Dzumeister

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Well considering he used TWUE as a base ROM (which should be noted in the description and Read Me BTW), he probably is using the updated canon names for spells and such. So Firaga, Cura, etc. But if you really want to bring this to a direct LoL translation, you probably should rename all the items and such to be closer to Japanese despite what Square currently calls them in English.

So Terra, Sabin, and Cyan should be Tina, Mash, and Ceyenne respectively.

Phoenix Down should be Phoenix Tail.

Crusader to Jihad

Moogles should be moglies.

Katarin should be Catalina.

And perhaps you might want to remove ALL of the Woolseyims too to a more direct translation, if you haven't done so already in later revisions. Even though Slattery used some of them, Kitase loved them too (he even said they were better than the Japanese, especially with Kefka) they should be closer to the direct Japanese here.

You've probably read my thread recently and everyone has noted which ones everyone here doesn't like including "Son of a Submariner." That should be the straight forward "Argh. Dammit."

Two others I don't know if you changed yet or not is when confronted Kefka at the end. "Self-Help book" is a Woolseyism, as is "Monument to non-existence." Suggestions "All this back talk. You people make me sick." and "I'll destroy everything and make a world of death!"

The soldier that laughs about fire should have his Beavis and Butt-head like speech reverted to "Burn to death!"

But what you do of course, is your own choice.

I don't think his intention was to necessarily erase some of the previous localization choices. Sure, the script inconsistencies were ironed out, but the more interesting dialogue that still made sense is kept, because the goal is to create a good script that reads well for every player, I think  ;)
free sluffy

Chicken Knife

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #95 on: July 27, 2019, 07:25:39 am »
But what are some examples of lines in the old script that didn't make sense? This isn't the PSX FFVII localization we are talking about. I don't think I've read a line in either official localization of FFVI that made no sense to me and certainly the story was never lost. It was just a matter of liberties being taken for various purposes. Forgive me for having the impression that the purpose of this hack was to bring the game closer to the essence of the Japanese release. (which the RPGONE script did attempt but achieved quite poorly)
« Last Edit: July 27, 2019, 07:34:21 am by Chicken Knife »

hairy_hen

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #96 on: July 27, 2019, 01:30:07 pm »
(In case it wasn't clear, I was joking about the item names.  I'm okay with the official names, but I do recognize that others consider the exact wording of these things to be quite important, even if it isn't something I get fired up about.)

Lines that didn't make sense in the official releases?  In the annotated script I documented numerous examples, and I'm still only halfway through making notes on it.  I certainly recommend reading it, because the details of the story make a great deal more sense when translated correctly, and in my notes I frequently explain how the internal logic of the story was distorted by previous translations.  The problems go way beyond whether Shadow would kill his mother or his best friend, or whether Sabin looks like a bear or a bodybuilder, or whether submarines exist in this world, or whether Imperial soldiers like watching Beavis and Butthead.  Most of the problems are discussed by Mato in his video series, and some are additional observations I made.  The annotated script can be read here: https://pastebin.com/RyVqkRnY

I'll talk about some examples that come to mind.  Right from the beginning in the introductory text, the SNES version says that magic ceased to exist after the ancient war, but that isn't true: everyone who survived the war and knew how to use magic went into hiding.  Magic still existed, but hidden away from people who wanted to exploit it.  Later scenes reiterate the idea the Empire has found a way to create magic power, when in fact all they've done is find where it already existed and harness it with their machines.

The scene near the beginning where Locke comes to help Terra escape is heavily mistranslated.  The dialog makes it sound like Imperial troops are chasing her, and that Narshe is no match for the Empire, and they have to join the Returners to stay independent.  What's really going on is that the Narshe guards are chasing her, and the city of Narshe does have the strength to stand up to the Empire, but the people are too stubbornly independent to want to have anything to do with the Returners.  The entirety of the exposition says the exact opposite of what it's supposed to say.

During the scene at the Returner base, both the SNES and GBA versions say that magical machines were used during the ancient war.  The Japanese script says no such thing, and there nothing in the entire game to indicate that machines ever existed back then.  Even the term "Magitek" itself is problematic, because it implies the connection of magic and technology, while the Japanese has no word like that anywhere.  Consequently, both official translations end up saying 'Magitek' very frequently to describe magic usage, but the Japanese only ever uses more general terms for magic and rarely indicates a technological connection.  It took me a little while to reconcile to this difference, but I ended up removing almost every instance of the term 'Magitek' from the script, and the only ones that remain are those that specifically refer to using magic and technology together.

Frequently the problems aren't easy to spot right away because they don't affect the entire scene, but certain lines within a conversation will say the wrong thing and end up skewing what is being talked about in a different direction.  One example is when Banon is trying to persuade the Narshe elder to help the Returners.  In the SNES version he says, "Our blood will spill because of you," but he's actually supposed to say, "We're asking you to shed blood."  The original translation made it sound like he was saying the Returners would die because of the Narshe people, but that is nonsensical and doesn't fit the scenario.  He's actually telling them that his request for them to join the Returners is a serious thing to consider, because he's asking them to kill for their cause.

Many people probably know about the mistranslated line that changed Setzer's entire character motivation, where the SNES version said the Empire had been good for his business, but he was supposed to say the opposite.  What isn't as well known is that there are other examples of this same translation mistake in other places too, where certain NPC's say that their business is going up because the Imperial troops have left the area, but they're really supposed to be saying the Empire had been sustaining their business, and income has dried up once they left.  Much of the NPC dialog throughout the game has issues of one kind or another: the entire section on the Imperial continent has a huge number of errors, and very few of the NPC's say what they are supposed to say during this part.

The subplot of Locke searching for the Phoenix Magicite to revive Rachel was particularly mangled.  There was supposed to be a great deal of foreshadowing about this, but almost none of it survived into the SNES translation and it ends up coming out of nowhere late in the game as a result.  Most of the references made by Locke (and NPC's talking about him) to searching for treasure are meant to refer to the Phoenix Magicite specifically, but it ended up just sounding like he wanted to plunder every place he went to get any old treasure.

The backstory of the Espers, both as related by Ramuh and in Terra's flashback, contained severe mistranslations which distorted the meaning of what was happening quite heavily.  So many details were wrong there that I don't even have time at the moment to get into them, but all of them are covered in the annotated script.  Celes' backstory as told by Cid also had a lot of mistakes: what he says about her childhood in Japanese is very different.

These are some notable examples off the top of my head, but there are many, many others scattered throughout.  Some of them are subtle and some are not.  I've spent a lot of time as an editor for a particularly prolific author friend, so over time I developed a keen sense for these kinds of issues with the internal logic of a story.  So when I say this version captures the tone of the Japanese script, looking at it from a story editor's point of view is what I mean.

Now as to how noticeable these things are while actually playing the game?  I'm not sure.  For some this stuff may not matter much, if at all, but for others it's a bigger deal.  I just found that I couldn't ignore the problems once I'd become aware of them.  I'm actually really curious to hear about people's experiences of playing this version, and whether they find that their understanding of the story and sense of connection with the characters is affected in a meaningful way by the differences in how it is written.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2019, 01:57:06 pm by hairy_hen »

Chicken Knife

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #97 on: July 27, 2019, 09:03:24 pm »
(In case it wasn't clear, I was joking about the item names.  I'm okay with the official names, but I do recognize that others consider the exact wording of these things to be quite important, even if it isn't something I get fired up about.)

Lines that didn't make sense in the official releases?  In the annotated script I documented numerous examples, and I'm still only halfway through making notes on it.  I certainly recommend reading it, because the details of the story make a great deal more sense when translated correctly, and in my notes I frequently explain how the internal logic of the story was distorted by previous translations.  The problems go way beyond whether Shadow would kill his mother or his best friend, or whether Sabin looks like a bear or a bodybuilder, or whether submarines exist in this world, or whether Imperial soldiers like watching Beavis and Butthead.  Most of the problems are discussed by Mato in his video series, and some are additional observations I made.  The annotated script can be read here: https://pastebin.com/RyVqkRnY

I'll talk about some examples that come to mind.  Right from the beginning in the introductory text, the SNES version says that magic ceased to exist after the ancient war, but that isn't true: everyone who survived the war and knew how to use magic went into hiding.  Magic still existed, but hidden away from people who wanted to exploit it.  Later scenes reiterate the idea the Empire has found a way to create magic power, when in fact all they've done is find where it already existed and harness it with their machines.

The scene near the beginning where Locke comes to help Terra escape is heavily mistranslated.  The dialog makes it sound like Imperial troops are chasing her, and that Narshe is no match for the Empire, and they have to join the Returners to stay independent.  What's really going on is that the Narshe guards are chasing her, and the city of Narshe does have the strength to stand up to the Empire, but the people are too stubbornly independent to want to have anything to do with the Returners.  The entirety of the exposition says the exact opposite of what it's supposed to say.

During the scene at the Returner base, both the SNES and GBA versions say that magical machines were used during the ancient war.  The Japanese script says no such thing, and there nothing in the entire game to indicate that machines ever existed back then.  Even the term "Magitek" itself is problematic, because it implies the connection of magic and technology, while the Japanese has no word like that anywhere.  Consequently, both official translations end up saying 'Magitek' very frequently to describe magic usage, but the Japanese only ever uses more general terms for magic and rarely indicates a technological connection.  It took me a little while to reconcile to this difference, but I ended up removing almost every instance of the term 'Magitek' from the script, and the only ones that remain are those that specifically refer to using magic and technology together.

Frequently the problems aren't easy to spot right away because they don't affect the entire scene, but certain lines within a conversation will say the wrong thing and end up skewing what is being talked about in a different direction.  One example is when Banon is trying to persuade the Narshe elder to help the Returners.  In the SNES version he says, "Our blood will spill because of you," but he's actually supposed to say, "We're asking you to shed blood."  The original translation made it sound like he was saying the Returners would die because of the Narshe people, but that is nonsensical and doesn't fit the scenario.  He's actually telling them that his request for them to join the Returners is a serious thing to consider, because he's asking them to kill for their cause.

Many people probably know about the mistranslated line that changed Setzer's entire character motivation, where the SNES version said the Empire had been good for his business, but he was supposed to say the opposite.  What isn't as well known is that there are other examples of this same translation mistake in other places too, where certain NPC's say that their business is going up because the Imperial troops have left the area, but they're really supposed to be saying the Empire had been sustaining their business, and income has dried up once they left.  Much of the NPC dialog throughout the game has issues of one kind or another: the entire section on the Imperial continent has a huge number of errors, and very few of the NPC's say what they are supposed to say during this part.

The subplot of Locke searching for the Phoenix Magicite to revive Rachel was particularly mangled.  There was supposed to be a great deal of foreshadowing about this, but almost none of it survived into the SNES translation and it ends up coming out of nowhere late in the game as a result.  Most of the references made by Locke (and NPC's talking about him) to searching for treasure are meant to refer to the Phoenix Magicite specifically, but it ended up just sounding like he wanted to plunder every place he went to get any old treasure.

The backstory of the Espers, both as related by Ramuh and in Terra's flashback, contained severe mistranslations which distorted the meaning of what was happening quite heavily.  So many details were wrong there that I don't even have time at the moment to get into them, but all of them are covered in the annotated script.  Celes' backstory as told by Cid also had a lot of mistakes: what he says about her childhood in Japanese is very different.

These are some notable examples off the top of my head, but there are many, many others scattered throughout.  Some of them are subtle and some are not.  I've spent a lot of time as an editor for a particularly prolific author friend, so over time I developed a keen sense for these kinds of issues with the internal logic of a story.  So when I say this version captures the tone of the Japanese script, looking at it from a story editor's point of view is what I mean.

Now as to how noticeable these things are while actually playing the game?  I'm not sure.  For some this stuff may not matter much, if at all, but for others it's a bigger deal.  I just found that I couldn't ignore the problems once I'd become aware of them.  I'm actually really curious to hear about people's experiences of playing this version, and whether they find that their understanding of the story and sense of connection with the characters is affected in a meaningful way by the differences in how it is written.
Thanks for taking the time to explain those highlights. I'm not sure it sounds like the story itself is fundamentally changed, but it seems like the coherence of the world being presented and several character's development has been improved. That is certainly a meaningful and worthwhile effort. I think we can both agree on the problematic aspects of the original localization. I'm also curious what your opinion is of the GBA script. How many issues did it solve versus how many did it create? My own reaction to the GBA script has been positive, if mostly from a perspective of the writing coming across as more refined to my eyes.

And with the item names, I agree that it can be splitting hairs at times (phoenix down/tail/feather etc). What isn't splitting hairs is when the concept of the item has been totally changed. For instance, the SNES localization has a relic called "Economizer" and GBA has the same accessory named "Celestriad". For the former, I picture some kind of bizarre steampunk contraption while for the latter I picture an angelic artifact of divine origin and power. For "The Offering" vs "The Master Scroll" I also capture a wildly different impression from the two names. There were several more like this. You speak about these differences like "some people think this is more accurate, some people think that is more accurate", as if one can't really tell with a little research which is indeed the more accurate translation. For my own projects, even before I developed a partnership with a Japanese translator, I found a solid amount of resources that helped me determine in most cases what the actual concept was behind item names. And since the FF fandom is several factors larger than the Dragon Quest one, I'm sure plenty of information is out there. I wish Tomato had opted to make namings part of his own efforts--which I'm sure would have made approaching them more appealing to you. But nevertheless, I think that names for items, spells, monsters, even characters are just as important a part of a game's translation as the story itself. They are not arbitrary things but elements that we, both in the past as children and still today as adults, become totally engrossed by. I hope I'm not coming across as obnoxiously trying to tell you what to do for your project. I'm just speaking as a player who would be very excited to experience not just the story with all of its details accurate to the vision of the creators but the entire game translated in that same fashion.

It could be that we have a fundamental difference in perspectives here because your priority is to fix problems created by the English localizations while my priority would be to better capture the essence of the Japanese game in every aspect--but not at the cost of the writing's elegance. There's really no need to keep discussing if that really is the distinction. Both of our perspectives are perfectly reasonable.

« Last Edit: July 27, 2019, 09:23:38 pm by Chicken Knife »

Heaven Piercing Man

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #98 on: July 28, 2019, 12:24:32 am »
The games pretty much used Magitek for every instance of the Japanese word madou, a hard to pinpoint kanji compound which is best translated as "sorcery". The thing is, it only works if used when referring to the Empire's sorcery warmechs, but it got used as a brand name for even the infusion of magic into humans.

svenge

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Re: Final Fantasy VI: Retranslated
« Reply #99 on: July 28, 2019, 01:25:54 pm »
I wish Tomato had opted to make namings part of his own efforts--which I'm sure would have made approaching them more appealing to you. But nevertheless, I think that names for items, spells, monsters, even characters are just as important a part of a game's translation as the story itself. They are not arbitrary things but elements that we, both in the past as children and still today as adults, become totally engrossed by.

Looking at your patch for the first Dragon Quest game, I think you've gone a step too far in arbitrarily making up spell names that don't fit either the conventions from previous official English translations nor even simply transliterate the original Japanese.  A player shouldn't be expected to have to read patch notes just to figure out basic interface functions like that.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2019, 01:42:22 pm by svenge »