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Author Topic: ROM Hacks: Final Fantasy V advance - sound restoration updated  (Read 14263 times)

Bregalad

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Re: ROM Hacks: Final Fantasy V advance - sound restoration updated
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2014, 05:36:28 pm »
Apparently, a allocation table fault is the source of the problem (not that I'm 100% sure if it at all, but one of the linux based repair tool I tried tells me that).
I did use NTSF compression :(

September 08, 2014, 03:56:04 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
OK I now have a 100% working computer again, I put all the (somewhat dated) backups back so I can analyze what's going on again.

1) I just experienced the slowdown just as described with VBA and the placebo BIOS. By using VBA + real BIOS or the real hardware this is fixed. I have no idea why this happens. I knew about this problem before releasing the patch, and thought I fixed it but I didn't. This is not a problem since it's an emulation problem and not a hardware problem, so technically I have nothing to fix on this one, VBA authors does ;)

2) There is clicks in the sounds, just as said above. They happen in VBA once you use the real BIOS, strangely they don't appear with the placebo BIOS (however, strange clicks appear instead). On real hardware the clicks are here, but they are much less noticeable

3) The intro patch europe with orchestra somehow don't work at all and have no effect on the ROM.

I'll not be able to fix 1) because it's VBA's fault, and I'll only be able to fix 2) if I get help about those clicks. However I'll definitely fix 3) and try to release a version with a working orchestral intro, assuming anyone cares anymore.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 03:56:04 pm by Bregalad »

TheZunar123

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Re: ROM Hacks: Final Fantasy V advance - sound restoration updated
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2014, 04:34:40 pm »
I'm assuming by clicks you mean like the occasional pops and static-y audio. I typically play GBA games on my flash cart and since the pops aren't as noticeable they don't bother me.

Might as well put my two cents on the orchestrated intro as well. It doesn't matter to me, I use the U rom because better font and smaller filesize.
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vince94

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Re: ROM Hacks: Final Fantasy V advance - sound restoration updated
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2014, 07:48:30 am »
I just updated my copy to the latest version of the patch, and all of the sound effects (spells, monsters dying, etc.) went back to the GBA version! What gives?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 08:15:36 am by vince94 »

TheZunar123

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Re: ROM Hacks: Final Fantasy V advance - sound restoration updated
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2014, 08:32:34 am »
First off, what patch did you use? I used the U patch and the audio works like a charm. Did you use the E patch, and if so which one?
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vince94

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Re: ROM Hacks: Final Fantasy V advance - sound restoration updated
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2014, 10:10:31 pm »
I used the "without orchestra" one, it must not have been updated :P Oh well!
EDIT: Same thing with the American ROM. SNES music, but strange sound effects.
EDIT: Something just occurred to me...the Cura spell in the current patch is very quiet and shorter than the on-screen animation, and I'm used to it being a louder "pl-pl-pl-pling!!!" sound. Have I just been used to the GBA sound effects this entire time!? :O
The "enemy dying" sound is different too, it's muffled and more bass-y.

Either way, I'm not hearing any pops or clicks! Maybe you guys are getting buffer underrun with the sound settings.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 11:24:07 pm by vince94 »

Bregalad

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Re: ROM Hacks: Final Fantasy V advance - sound restoration updated
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2014, 03:59:16 am »
Quote
Have I just been used to the GBA sound effects this entire time!
Sounds like it's the case. The sound effects have been restored to the normal SNES ones.

TheZunar123

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Re: ROM Hacks: Final Fantasy V advance - sound restoration updated
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2014, 08:39:12 am »
Yeah, that's likely the case. I'm still somewhat used to the GBA sound effects so I know how that feels. Some of them I actually prefer over the restored SNES ones, but for the most part the restored SNES ones sound better (except for the knife attack; I know that's how it sounds in the SNES version but it's always sounded slightly off/corrupt to me).
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OllieDixon

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Re: ROM Hacks: Final Fantasy V advance - sound restoration updated
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2014, 06:15:37 pm »
I can't for the life of me get the with orchestra patch to work. Tried multiple roms. Losing my mind. Can anyone provide the CRC of the unpatched rom you used (that worked)?

TheZunar123

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Re: ROM Hacks: Final Fantasy V advance - sound restoration updated
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2014, 10:11:21 pm »
He mentioned a few posts above that the orchestral patch isn't working, he's fixing it and will update soon.
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OllieDixon

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Re: ROM Hacks: Final Fantasy V advance - sound restoration updated
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2014, 10:12:32 pm »
Doh! Thanks  ;D

Bregalad

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Re: ROM Hacks: Final Fantasy V advance - sound restoration updated
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2014, 06:18:16 am »
Oh I completely forgot I had to do this, thanks for remembering me. I'll note this on my TODO list.

Bregalad

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Re: ROM Hacks: Final Fantasy V advance - sound restoration updated
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2014, 04:57:58 pm »
I just bump to say that the patch "with orchestra" should now be fixed and working.

tatundria

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Re: ROM Hacks: Final Fantasy V advance - sound restoration updated
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2019, 09:59:29 am »
V3.0a still has a lot of popping sounds. I am using mgba with retroarch on Nintendo Switch and the original gba bios. Please, is there any way to fix it?

Bregalad

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Re: ROM Hacks: Final Fantasy V advance - sound restoration updated
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2019, 09:25:38 am »
Back when I updated to version 3 (that is, 4 years ago) I spent a lot of time trying to find the reason why there was those clicking sounds in emulators and I couldn't find why. I'm also certain those didn't happen on real hardware, so maybe you should contact the emulator's authors and ask them to fix their emulator to match the bahaviour of real hardware.

tatundria

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Re: ROM Hacks: Final Fantasy V advance - sound restoration updated
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2019, 07:46:44 am »
Can't get the audio to work properly in FFV sound restoration patched in latest mgba core v0.7 in retroarch (sound popping) but it works perfectly when I run it from mgba emulator v0.7. The thing is that I need it to work in retroarch. Please, can you help me?

Stremon

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Re: ROM Hacks: Final Fantasy V advance - sound restoration updated
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2019, 03:42:41 am »
The sound effects have been restored to the normal SNES ones.
Hello Bregalad,
Thanks for your amazing sound patches!
However there is one thing that really bother me; once patched, the game music and sounds become mostly mono, with a clearly lower sample rate than both the Snes and the original GBA ones.
It's really a big flaw for me since I play mainly with earphones and Gameboy Player, making everything sound even worse than the unpatched one...
Is there a way this can be fixed with original Snes stereo and sample rate?
If it increases the file size I don't mind since my flashcart supports 32MB roms.

Bregalad

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Re: ROM Hacks: Final Fantasy V advance - sound restoration updated
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2019, 05:48:09 am »
Hello Bregalad,
Thanks for your amazing sound patches!
However there is one thing that really bother me; once patched, the game music and sounds become mostly mono, with a clearly lower sample rate than both the Snes and the original GBA ones.
It's really a big flaw for me since I play mainly with earphones and Gameboy Player, making everything sound even worse than the unpatched one...
Is there a way this can be fixed with original Snes stereo and sample rate?
If it increases the file size I don't mind since my flashcart supports 32MB roms.
Hello Stremon,

First of all, if it's the latest version of the patch which we're talking about, you're wrong about it being mono, everything, music and sound effect, is stereo. You're right that the sample rate is lower than the SNES version, and also the "original" GBA but only by a small margin. This sacrifice was necessary in order to make the sound engine as quick as possible in order to avoid lagging/slow down during gameplay, and to allow the echo effect to sound as close as possible as the SNES version.

It's possible to have a higher sample rate in order to sound similar to SNES, but this would make :
  • The game would slow down and lag very often due to the processing power being used for sound mixing.
  • The echo would probably have to be removed, or perhaps a version where the main sound is in stereo but the echo buffer in mono would have to be made (the echo buffers takes up A LOT of RAM - and thankfully FF4/5/6 advance have lot of free RAM but still it's not unlimited).

In the end this clearly wasn't worth it - having the sound as close as possible to SNES but a little bit muffled, and the game as fast as possible, sounded like the best option to me. I could have made various versions of the patch and let the end-user chose what he prefers, but this would have been terribly complicated to test and maintain.

I'll conclude by saying that even though the SNES have a sample rate of 32kHz (and the GBA patches only have about half of that, 16kHz), the sounds on a real SNES is quite muffled because of how the gaussian filtering in the S-DSP works. So in a SNES emulator or SPC player you can get more trebble than what is audible on real hardware. (By using a higher sample rate and using cubic interpolation instead of gaussian makes it possible to have even more treble - sounds great but that's now how the real SNES sounds !). In the end playing the patched GBA version or SNES version on real hardware wouldn't make that big of a difference, the GBA version would only be slightly more "muffled" than the SNES version.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 05:55:27 am by Bregalad »

Stremon

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Re: ROM Hacks: Final Fantasy V advance - sound restoration updated
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2019, 12:27:25 pm »
Hello Stremon,

First of all, if it's the latest version of the patch which we're talking about, you're wrong about it being mono, everything, music and sound effect, is stereo. You're right that the sample rate is lower than the SNES version, and also the "original" GBA but only by a small margin. This sacrifice was necessary in order to make the sound engine as quick as possible in order to avoid lagging/slow down during gameplay, and to allow the echo effect to sound as close as possible as the SNES version.

It's possible to have a higher sample rate in order to sound similar to SNES, but this would make :
  • The game would slow down and lag very often due to the processing power being used for sound mixing.
  • The echo would probably have to be removed, or perhaps a version where the main sound is in stereo but the echo buffer in mono would have to be made (the echo buffers takes up A LOT of RAM - and thankfully FF4/5/6 advance have lot of free RAM but still it's not unlimited).

In the end this clearly wasn't worth it - having the sound as close as possible to SNES but a little bit muffled, and the game as fast as possible, sounded like the best option to me. I could have made various versions of the patch and let the end-user chose what he prefers, but this would have been terribly complicated to test and maintain.

I'll conclude by saying that even though the SNES have a sample rate of 32kHz (and the GBA patches only have about half of that, 16kHz), the sounds on a real SNES is quite muffled because of how the gaussian filtering in the S-DSP works. So in a SNES emulator or SPC player you can get more trebble than what is audible on real hardware. (By using a higher sample rate and using cubic interpolation instead of gaussian makes it possible to have even more treble - sounds great but that's now how the real SNES sounds !). In the end playing the patched GBA version or SNES version on real hardware wouldn't make that big of a difference, the GBA version would only be slightly more "muffled" than the SNES version.
Thank you for the explanation, I understand sacrifices had to be made in order to have the game run well.
And it's already amazing what you managed to do here ;)

Maybe I didn't explain well what I meant; I can hear the sound is stereo, but barely, especially compared to the other versions. I don't know if it's the low sample rate or what, but with the last version of your patch, on stereo speakers there is barely any difference between left and right sound.

I tested both original GBA and Snes games on real hardware (GBA with earphones, Gameboy Player, DS Lite and real Snes), and the stereo is very clear, for both the sound effects and the music.
Also I tried it through my Amp with Dolby PLIIx, since this sound enhancing process is redirecting the mono sounds on the middle speaker, while leaving the stereo ones on the side speakers. For the original game versions, almost all the sound goes to the side speakers, but for the patched one the sound can be heard almost only on the middle speaker.

I will try to record it if I manage to input the sound to my PC, it's a huge difference. But of course on a normal GBA front mono speaker, it doesn't make much difference, there might not be many people who even realized it :laugh:

You are talking about the echo, how often is it used during the game?
Is that a big difference if we remove the effect completely?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 12:35:41 pm by Stremon »

Bregalad

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Re: ROM Hacks: Final Fantasy V advance - sound restoration updated
« Reply #38 on: May 05, 2019, 06:17:18 am »
You're welcome.

The sound is in full stereo. The music uses paning data from the SNES game. The "original" GBA version used other panning data, but this wasn't used. The sound effects however uses panning from the GBA since it's not part of the sound engine itself but main engine which tells the sound effect to play with this or that panning. (*) I have no idea what you're talking about but it's just your imagination.

When it comes to echo, it's used at all times and effects music significantly.

(*) EDIT: Maybe that's what might now work properly (sound effects panning) ? I must admit I never payed a lot of attention to this.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2019, 08:40:05 am by Bregalad »