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Author Topic: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210415  (Read 487966 times)

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210217
« Reply #1900 on: February 23, 2021, 07:11:58 pm »
PabloGaldini, I've kept a functional link to my combined and revised version of emuandco and your MSU conversion stuff in this thread's first post. When you run it, it gives you, basically, three options:
- convert the remake's music
- convert the remake's music with a couple alternate tracks
- convert the original music included with the remake
Obviously the first two were what emuandco did and the original music was what you did, all just set up as options within one script. I didn't change any of the volumes or loop points you painstakingly set out, I just reorganized the batch script to allow selection and modified the included utilities to be less of a mess.

Definitely feel free to upload my revision wherever. Note that it defaults to:
set romname="Secret of Mana, Turbo"
So you'd want to edit that (to "som_msu1" probably) before uploading elsewhere, most likely. It's the second line of the batch file; you can't miss it.



Josenev, probably your next step is going to be grabbing somedit so you can see what you'll be up against.
Old Webpage: http://somedit.blogspot.com/
Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6kze7r1i8qmj2po/somedit0213.rar?dl=1

Once you have it running and the ROM loaded, on the left is the "Data Categories" TreeView; you'll want to expand "Misc data" and select "Character Sprites"

I'd suggest navigating the tabs on the right to "Character Definitions" sub-tab "Palette" and changing the transparent color (the first color in the palette) to something that stands out, like maybe bright green:

(If this image appears blurry, clicking on it should make it larger and display at 1:1 pixel size.)

Next, go to the "Frames" tab and enable (checkbox) "Zoom" and "Show Tile Outlines" and change the selection (below the grid) to "NPC" # "0" (for the boy). The "Frame" number at the top (above the grid) lets you view all 256 possible animation frames he has.


Then go to the "Raw Tiles" tab (and again change the selection to "NPC" # "0") to really see what you're facing. Roughly every 5 clicks of the down arrow is a new page of 256 tiles, 4 pages totaling 1024 tiles. And that's just for the boy; the girl and sprite also have about 1024 tiles each.


WARNING: DO NOT TRY AND MAKE CHANGES, SAVE AND/OR LOAD.
somedit is incomplete, and your changes won't reliably save, or load, and you'll be wasting lots of time.
I explained using it so you can preview what you're up against.
I repeat, for anyone reading this, use somedit as a data viewer, not an editor.

There is a LOT of art that needs to be redrawn if you want to see this to fruition.

Use the "Frames" tab to see how different poses are assembled out of tiles.



Memorex, correct, the snowmen aren't vanilla. They're added by Items\Farmable_Sword_Orb. That snowman is the only unused enemy slot, and is horribly constrained in what assets it has available. For example, it only has 2 animation frames.

This post did prompt me to go work on its "vaporize" mechanic, so with the next release, it'll have a new animation and sound effect. It's designed to be gimmicky to fight; you must defeat it the "correct" way to have a chance at a treasure chest drop.

I haven't managed to reproduce that Magic Rope text issue. I really want to fix it though. -_-
That picture looks similar to other Proportional Font rendering bugs I'd encountered, but I'm currently at a loss as to the source of that one. Any other details about the circumstances might be helpful.

Regarding quality of life feedback:
1) That's been brought up before. I've just never come up with a good way to indicate whose ring menu is open. Recoloring the HUD is harder than is apparent. The HUD has 3 colors, shared for the entirety of the HUD. That's it, 3: black, gold, white.
2) Probably there's some hacky bug-avoiding reason those status effects block opening any ring menu while controlling the status'd character, but I'll try to take a look at this.

And finally, sorry to burst your bubble, but I at least have zero interest in making Trials of Mana, Turbo. I just don't like that game that much. It's super pretty, and I often like its storytelling, but I hate playing it. I don't recall how I worded my dislike for that game earlier in this thread, but I've written on it a couple times before. Good luck if you go searching; boy has this thread gotten long.



TheChristoph, like SnesFaust mentioned, "L" opens the "Quick Spell" menu that lets you cast spells without pausing. Setting the hotkeys is really tedious: you go to the spell ring menu, hold L+DPad+B to hotkey a spell to a specific direction (you'll hear a sound effect).

It's really neat, but non-intuitive and poorly documented (no in-game instructions). It's on my list of systems to overhaul to try and make it more practical to use.



I've got a fair bit of stuff ready to go for the next version, but am getting a tiny bit more testing done first.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 02:22:32 am by Queue »

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210217
« Reply #1901 on: February 24, 2021, 05:14:32 am »
@Queue

Could you please add the new weapon effect descriptions for Energized_Weapons?  When I play the game and I see the blank in the descriptions, I feel a little... empty.

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210217
« Reply #1902 on: February 24, 2021, 02:15:50 pm »
And finally, sorry to burst your bubble, but I at least have zero interest in making Trials of Mana, Turbo. I just don't like that game that much. It's super pretty, and I often like its storytelling, but I hate playing it. I don't recall how I worded my dislike for that game earlier in this thread, but I've written on it a couple times before. Good luck if you go searching; boy has this thread gotten long.

Amazing how you and I are so similar including our dislike of Trials.

Speaking of which, do you have any idea how many times Turbo has been downloaded?

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210217
« Reply #1903 on: February 24, 2021, 02:41:50 pm »
hmsong, that's not high on my list of priorities. I can probably have some of the weapons reuse other weapon descriptions, but finding space for the paralyze and engulf weapon descriptions may be annoying. Will get to it eventually though.

ManaRedux, not even the foggiest. That file host I generally use doesn't seem to list download count, and files before 2020-04-08 aren't even still available (they're not lost, I have them in triplicate, they're just not publicly available as far as I know). That's more or less intentional though as I don't really want to know so that it can't affect any of my decision making. I work on this for personal enjoyment only and popularity isn't a facet of if I'm enjoying it.

SnesFaust

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210217
« Reply #1904 on: February 24, 2021, 02:56:45 pm »

I've got a fair bit of stuff ready to go for the next version, but am getting a tiny bit more testing done first.

I can%u2019t wait to see what%u2019s next! I%u2019ve been playing most every day and loving it. Is there any possibility of slow-moving while blocking? The chobin hoods and water thugs melt my face if they get a good volley in. %uD83D%uDE01
« Last Edit: February 25, 2021, 12:13:17 am by SnesFaust »

Memorex

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210217
« Reply #1905 on: February 24, 2021, 04:00:00 pm »
Queue Magic rope menu glitch: Snes9x core, latest patch, fought Dark Lich like normal, after the fight and the message to get to the surface as fast as possible I opened the menu to choose the magic rope, and there it was. After the notice that it can't be used the glitch goes away and won't oocur again. When I loaded my save state and tried again the same thing happened.

Good luck on the snowmen.

Piotyr

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210217
« Reply #1906 on: February 24, 2021, 09:32:20 pm »
Do you devs think now is a good time to dive in to this patch or are there a few little issues that need fixing before you think someone should jump in? You guys update so fast I keep feeling like "I should wait just one more week"

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210217
« Reply #1907 on: February 25, 2021, 01:35:12 am »
Memorex, I was able to reproduce it! So, it's a bit crazier than I would've suspected: it's actually a vanilla bug where the text box tile map doesn't get correctly reset in certain circumstances, but in vanilla it doesn't cause any visual artifacts because vanilla code wastefully redraws all text box tiles, even unused ones. Anyway, puzzling out how to fix it now, it'll probably just be a generic bug fix, not specifically tied to Proportional Font.

Piotyr, generally it's been good to go for a long time. I mean, it's, like, far less buggy than the vanilla game (look at the massive Bug_Fixes section in the patcher). Specifically, nothing content-wise has changed in a couple months, mainly just aesthetic bug fixes. Updates have always maintained save compatibility, so it's not like you can't start now then just update if something in a future changelog strikes your fancy. If you change settings in the patcher, save the config file it generates for use with a later update so you don't have to re-do all the patcher checkboxes.

hmsong, I changed my mind and Energized_Weapons will have descriptions next update.

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210217
« Reply #1908 on: February 25, 2021, 05:33:01 am »
@Queue

Awesome.  Looking forward to it.

Memorex

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210217
« Reply #1909 on: February 25, 2021, 11:50:38 am »
Queue Glad you found it  :thumbsup:

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210225
« Reply #1910 on: February 25, 2021, 09:21:32 pm »
Version 2021-02-25:
https://filebin.net/7spaiz2xfys6b2i1/SoM_Turbo.210225.zip

Changes:
- updated Text\Reborn to V1.10
- added weapon descriptions to Items\Energized_Weapons
- implemented Quality_of_Life\Offscreen_Townsfolk; enjoy better framerate in most towns
- implemented Bug_Fixes\Ring_Menu_Error_Message; avoids race condition when showing item activation text (rope and drum) that potentially shows corrupt text
- updated Bug_Fixes\Blue_Sky_Blink_Fix to avoid discolored HUD when landing
- updated Items\Farmable_Sword_Orb to add a better looking and sounding "incorrect" death animation
- fixed an often discolored moon when using the drum during the night
- added time-of-day behavior to the residents of Mandala

Technical Changes:
- removed race condition from FPS_DEBUG and added visual readout to the boy's HUD if MP_Shown_Within_Status_Area is On
- added small chunk of unused data in bank $D3 to Overwrite_Unused_Data

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210225
« Reply #1911 on: February 25, 2021, 11:31:36 pm »
updated Text\Reborn to V1.10

The 11th time is always the charm! :thumbsup:

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210226
« Reply #1912 on: February 26, 2021, 02:35:07 pm »
Version 2021-02-26:
https://filebin.net/7spaiz2xfys6b2i1/SoM_Turbo.210226.zip

Changes:
- fixed mistake in Quality_of_Life\Offscreen_Townsfolk that was disabling all enemy AI in combat areas... whoops, framerate was great, but probably not what you want out of a game

Memorex

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210226
« Reply #1913 on: February 26, 2021, 03:35:21 pm »
New patch might warrant another play-through!

Piotyr

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210226
« Reply #1914 on: February 27, 2021, 05:23:43 am »
Does the SFX channel limit fix the cut outs in music? If not what does it do exactly?

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210226
« Reply #1915 on: February 27, 2021, 03:54:09 pm »
If Audio\SFX_Channel_Limit avoided music channels cutting out, it would be On by default. That problem is fundamental and can only be "fixed" by using MSU-1 music, since that doesn't use any of the SNES sound channels. Much of vanilla SoM music uses too many channels so sounds have to override something to be able to play.

I'm not actually 100% sure what it does. According to its description, it keeps sound effects on channels 6, 7 and 8, so I'm not sure if it is limiting concurrent sounds, or changing the logic for which channel to override, or something else. I'm looking at the code change it makes, but don't know enough about SoM's sound engine on the audio CPU side to know what effect it has.

Without rigorously testing it to determine the effect empirically (or investigating the code), it had seemed to me to at best shift which music channels cut out and didn't sound better, but that could just be in my head (humans are terrible at judging that sort of thing "by ear"), hence why I left it Off by default. Testing it just now, I could not notice a difference.

Edit: Typo'd that final sentence. Meant to say "could not"
« Last Edit: February 27, 2021, 06:43:28 pm by Queue »

Piotyr

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210226
« Reply #1916 on: February 27, 2021, 04:00:52 pm »
Thank you for the reply. I did in fact get an MSU1 patch for the exact reason of fixing this but was wondering fi I had to go through the effort or not if this fixed that.

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210226
« Reply #1917 on: February 27, 2021, 04:31:58 pm »
Queue, someone asked me a question on Discord today that got me thinking about a Wind Palace module for Turbo.  It would not be glamorous given the small remnants we have, but a small scenario could be constructed:

1)They walk in to see the sprite village empty, and hear the Axe Beak. 
2)They encounter Grandpa on this screen, who says the cut line that the Empire has sent monsters into the Palace.  The beginnings of his altar room dialogue can be here too.
3)The Axe Beak's arena is removed and the next screen is the exterior of the Wind Palace, which they enter and walk through the small set of rooms that were reused for the Underground Palace (duplicate content from the Underground Palace; only the palettes change).  Some monsters are here as usual.
4)We create a boss arena for the Axe Beak that uses the outside screen from vanilla, but we change the look to be an interior room of the Wind Palace.
5)After the Axe Beak is defeated inside the Palace, we find ourselves in the altar room with Grandpa and things proceed normally.

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210226
« Reply #1918 on: February 27, 2021, 05:35:56 pm »
@ManaRedux

Sounds great.  I'm always for the extra cutscene in Reborn (one of the main attractive points of Reborn).

ManaRedux

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210226
« Reply #1919 on: February 27, 2021, 06:20:17 pm »
While I'm at it, regrs was able to reconstruct a deleted boss arena map:

http://i.imgur.com/pWogd4H.png

Could that be the lost Wind Palace fight?