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Author Topic: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191205  (Read 124949 times)

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #480 on: September 24, 2019, 08:03:46 am »
Works for me!!

Sadly, I don't have any saves near the Fire Palace.  So I'll have to play through the game from the beginning again.  But that's fine.

Also, people not from this forum (hence not knowing about Queue's patch) will wonder why this spell is necessary (they have Useful Evil Gate patch, and not Shadow Saber patch).  Or rather, they may have both Evil Gate patch and Firenado to curbstomp any boss.  Then again, people not from this forum won't have Spell Recoil, so they'll just end up doing spell-chains.  But Captain Duck will be a pain for sure (even for Lv99 characters).

Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #481 on: September 24, 2019, 08:12:24 am »
Captain duck and hell hound staying strong till the end with the firenado and the powered up engulf  >:D

Have still yet to test the latest updates. Will do it later but they sure sound very cool

IIRC the Master Ninjas did use Exploder too, might be replaced with Firenado, tho they wont use it often really, they get taken out before any of that happens.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 08:23:14 am by Mr X »

zoolgremlin

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #482 on: September 24, 2019, 10:58:13 am »
A couple of notes before I go back to what I'm doing elsewhere...

Most, if not all of you, will know that you can use Notepad and/or Wordpad to open up the ZPS file, as it's text-only, not encrypted in any way.  However, I found two rather strange effects when using them to edit and/or read the ZPS:

1:
Notepad lags like a b****, when using it with the ZPS.  Which is less than 2000KB, but apparently that's too much for Microsoft's oh-so-mighty (EDIT) "text-editing" app to handle!  Is Bill Gates goddamn kidding me right now?!  Probably not, buuuuttt...

Spoiler:
(Really, MS?  F*** me dead!  Oh wait... you just want people to buy MS Office, right?  That's why you don't FIX this!!  Well guess what, Billyyyy?!  Ain't gonna happen from me!  So there, nyeah.)   >:D


Wordpad does not have this issue.  (Which is inexplicable to me anyway.)  That much you might know already, but see the second note for something annoying I found out... the hard way.

2:
If you use Wordpad with the ZPS, it's only useful for READing the file, not for EDITing it.  When I went to save the file after editing, there was no option to NOT apply a new format to it, leaving it as .zps.  I don't recall that it would change the .zps suffix, but the format itself?  YES.  It would.  DO NOT save your file in Wordpad at ANY TIME.  It will render the ZPS Patcher unable to load it properly, treating it as a corrupt file or... something?  How unfortunate... but on the other hand, if you always have 1 or more backups, not so bad.  Just... surprising.   :banghead:

Spoiler:
(By the way, Microsoft:  STOP selling Windows with the Rich Text Format {.rtf}).  JUST STOOOOP!  Nobody needs it, you already have .doc and .docx for Office, .txt is a basic standard, what are you trying to do with this?!  I swear to God... WITH VERY BAD WORDS!)    >:D


3:
I am in the process of preparing a file with modules that I have written, and may be of interest to some of you.  Once I have a preliminary (shortish) list of suggested modules, and I have tested them for functionality, I will Post the file to another folder in Google Drive, and put the Link in a future Post.  (EDIT:  It's up to the individual whether he/she wants to put in my little brain-farts, at the bottom of the ZPS.  At least this time, it will be UTF-8 format...)

4:
As a corollary to the previous point, I have done no more work to the Table documents, nor started any other format of document/s such as Spell Function List and Details, eg.  Not yet.  I apologize for making interested parties such as hmsong wait, and will get back to the Tables at least, once my proto-list of modules is tested and up for preview.  (Spell Functions and Co. will be a fair time coming, but I am committed to the dissemination of info, about this game, and all mods/patches pertaining to it.)  If you use the modules I put in there, you may want to change the colored parts before putting them in the ZPS.  Or make further changes, not use them at anytime, it's all good fun.   :laugh:

And that's the good news (friendly "Public Service Announcement?"  How pretentious of me!   :o).  The bad news is that I am STILL a very, very talkative guy.  See you all when you get back.  That's all for now.

@hmsong  So, I'm not the only one who likes the Evil Gate animation (EDIT), besides kethinov?  Swweeeet...   :happy:

@Mr. X  Forgot to mention this but...

Quote
Mr. X:  As for making Lunar Magic more useful, going of the idea proposed by hmsong have two versions of it one for the enemies, other for the Sprite.

This is pretty cool!  Shorter RNG-range, equally as useful for PCs & Enemies.  I'll take it!  Errrr... :-[



Ahem... on a (hopefully more) rational note, Queue and/or someone else working on SoM patches, may have already taken these ideas into account.  Lunar Magic has been changed in a Turbo module once at least, as of the date I Posted this.  Will check it out in due course of time...
« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 09:46:47 am by zoolgremlin »
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Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #483 on: September 24, 2019, 04:23:08 pm »
Lunar Magic is just much better a a spell now. It still serves the putpose of being random and actually a useful spell.

Burst became pretty unique as a spell also. Love it.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 05:11:55 pm by Mr X »

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #484 on: September 24, 2019, 05:33:14 pm »
Eep, I'm a couple pages behind. So, here goes...



hmsong, you and I were thinking alike regarding Lunar Magic and treasure chance. It's not technically a guaranteed drop, it's (((Luna Level / Target Count) + 2) * 8), so 16% at level 0 up to 80% at level 8. It's permanent as well once the effect has occurred. It's actually easy to change a monster's appearance and drop chance, but hard to set it up so it can change back. There's a problem with most other suggestions for Lunar Magic though: space in the ROM for code. The optimized original version of Lunar Magic takes up 0xC0 bytes, but the Celestial Cascade version takes up 0xCF bytes currently, and I need to figure out how to squish it down to the same 0xC0 bytes. Adding any more functionality (stat debuffs, etc.) is almost definitely going to make compacting it even more difficult.

Here's its current behavior:
1) 25% chance to turn an enemy into a mimic, hide their weapon and boost chest drop chance; if not a basic enemy or already a mimic goto 2)
2) 37.5% chance for a status effect "cascade" which means:
- if immune to all of the following status effects goto 3)
- if HP < 50%, try poison
- else try petrify
- else try engulf
- else try poison (if immune to petrify and engulf)
- if not petrify or engulf, apply an immobilizing status effect:
-- try balloon
-- try sleep
-- try confuse and mire
- apply status effect
- if no damaging status effect applied (petrify, engulf, poison), goto 3)
3) 37.5% chance of Luna element direct damage at 65 power

So fundamentally it's a 4 mana cost 65 power Luna element direct damage spell, with a chance at instead doing damage via status effects or turning them into a mimic. Against most (all?) bosses, it likely just functions as a 4 mana 65 power Luna nuke. I wasn't worried about the mimic transformation being permanent since honestly, you're going to defeat it before a timer would run out under most circumstances, having a duration just isn't a big deal; it's not rare for the damaging effects to kill the target before you get lucky on the 25% chance of a transformation, and multi-target casting to keep the damage low doesn't affect the status effect damage and reduces the chest drop probability.

The Transform experiments are neat. Tell me which set you want me to include as an option in Turbo and I'll get that set up. I intend to do the same with your spell rebalancing too, but that has a lot of compatibility fixups to write that I don't want to commit to until I'm closer to taking a break from spell changes.

So for Dryad / Luna weakness, I tracked the calculated damage as it went through the game's spell power calculations when casting a spell. I went to the Moon Palace entrance and cast burst on a Marmablue; the result was that yes, Dryad weakness is working, but I suspect I know what problem you're seeing. 100 power is really high so the spell was doing WAY over the damage cap: after applying the weakness multiplier, the number was at 3884 with a level 99 sprite casting single target Burst on a Marmablue. That number gets divided by 2 then capped at 999, then the enemy's magic defense is subtracted from it, resulting in damage numbers like 795. Bumping any other spell to 100 power still generally means it does damage so far over the cap that it winds up capping to 999 in the middle of the spell damage formula.

As for the Saber damage bonus, it works like this:
When a Saber spell is cast, (Saber spell level / target count) is saved in the target's data (in a byte shared with Moon Energy uses). When melee damage is dealt, after charge level and mana magic multipliers have been applied, if saved Saber level isn't 0, base damage / (10 - saved Saber level) is added to damage, which should mean +50% damage from a level 8 saber; attack up and attack down are each 25% at the same stage in the formula (down takes precedence and blocks up, if you somehow had both on at the same time). After that are quite a few more steps in the damage formula.

I intend to replace both enemy type melee affinity and elemental melee damage features that are currently in Turbo with ones more similar in logic with Attack Up / Down, with the end result being hopefully more controllable.

I know about the Lofty Mountains background. Not sure how to fix it. They wanted a distant view of the ridgeline with some form of parallax scrolling but where you enter the area affect the starting offset of the background's scrolling in a way that messes up what you end up seeing.

Yes, Herbal Boost Revivifier should be doing Luna damage:
Code: [Select]
' element fixups (after exchanging data)
@OFF %Spell.Data.Moon_Energy%Element%
RAW Spell.Element.Luna
@OFF %Spell.Data.Revivifier%Element%
RAW Spell.Element.Dryad
Remember that Revivifier is in the Moon_Energy slot, and that little bit of code is making sure Moon_Energy is Luna. However, Revivifier's damage should be ignoring strengths / weaknesses and always treating the target as weak (the implication being that ghost / undead are weak to Revivifier regardless of element) so what element it's set to doesn't actually end up mattering.



zoolgremlin, it feels like these are going to be nitpicks but I'm not intending to pick on you, just seems to be how this post worked out; genuinely just trying to be informative.

I added the new ZPS Patcher debug log with you in mind; if you have trouble enabling the log let me know and I can reiterate the change to the ZPS file required. Syntax / parsing errors will show up near the bottom of the log among the following lines:
Code: [Select]
MAKE: SetDefininitions
MAKE: Compile
MAKE: Assemble
| MAKE: Success !

Regarding modern game space usage, for games with voice acting, it's not unusual for audio to take up more space than textures; looking back even at a game from 1997 this was true if you chose its high quality sound option during install. In general though, textures dominate space usage otherwise. I can only think of some oddballs in the era before bone animation systems for 3D were standard where animations took up a large amount of space as model complexity increased (each frame of the animation had vertex positioning data for each vertex of the model, so a high polygon count model had animations many times the size of the model they were animating).

I like the Luna Revivifier name suggestion, but I want to avoid name changes when possible, as Relocalized compatibility makes them a pain in the butt. -_-
This is also why Celestial Cascade is just the feature name; Lunar Magic's name (or Lunacy with Relocalized) isn't changed in-game. Regarding Turn Undead, I don't feel the spell name needs a change in that case, as fundamentally it's still a revive spell; it just so happens you can cast it on enemies now and video game convention is if you can cast healing magic on undead, it hurts them.

And regarding notepad et al. wwwwhhhhooooaaaa hold your horses. Notepad isn't a word processor, and is barely a text editor. It's a demonstration program for the Edit control that works acceptably on small text files. Older versions (Win9x era) simply couldn't open text files bigger than... I think ~64KB? because the Edit control derived from 16-bit Windows code. Over time it's had minor features tacked on (both the Edit control and Notepad), but it's too limited for major work. WordPad is meant to be a dumpy minimal word processor, and that's why it's not suitable as a text editor (formatting, etc. is beyond what's expected in a text file, which by definition should only contain bytes that represent text). To make working on such a large text file as Turbo's ZPS file reasonable, I'd suggest getting a purpose-built text editor. I use an ancient version of Notepad++ (no relation to Microsoft's Notepad), but there are hundreds of text editors out there, and probably as many as a dozen that are good. For Turbo's ZPS they just need to support UTF-8 text files with byte order mark.



Mr X, it would actually be hard to make Change Form both transform an enemy into a Mimic AND change their chest drop chance; all Change Form does is set the Transformed status effect on the target, and that's it (it relies on the status effect system to do the transformation). Lunar Magic has tons of code to handle its random effect selection, messages and the effects themselves, so naturally lent itself to be modified into a different custom effect. For Lunar Magic I went (basically) fully offensive since Luna lacked a proper attack spell, and was trying to make something you could spam offensively like Earth Slide, Freeze, etc. but still maintain the whimsy the developers seem to have intended for Luna. I tried to make the status effect part of it damage focused but will need some playtesting to know if it's effective enough (or too effective).



kethinov, d'oh! Wasn't expecting your Lunar Magic patch. I think the Firenado result will ultimately be the best end result of these conflicts of ideas. The vanilla sprite Salamando spell line-up is terrible, so getting some diversity there, while sticking to the damage-focused vanilla theme seems perfect.

I don't even want to know what it would take to have a spell have multiple animations depending on target type... I think you'd need an entire second spell that you reset currently cast spell values to then restart the spell casting sequence.

Regarding the possible Transform enemy list, having a few non-vanilla options to pick from seems like a good way to handle it, so will likely have your "all cloners" list and whatever curated list hmsong wants to go with.

Specifically transforming an enemy and changing its drop chance turned out to be pleasantly simple: (where X has actor offset) change $E180,X to set new appearance, $E1E3,X to set weapon (looking at my code, I don't think I set it how I meant to, whoops), $E1FA,X set 0x01 to indicate actor sprite needs changing and 0x04 to indicate weapon needs changing (I think regarding 0x04, didn't double-check that one), and $E1CE,X for chest drop chance. So it's a matter of setting some data, and then setting some flags to tell the game to update based on some of that data changing.

When figuring that out it became apparent that when you frosty an enemy it actually transforms them into a snowman NPC (0x83 if memory serves), which overrides their AI. Don't actually know how the other disabling status effects (petrify, balloon, engulf) disable their actions.

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #485 on: September 24, 2019, 06:22:22 pm »
@Queue

Thank you for your kind response to my ideas (whether you accepted them or rejected them).  Now that I know Lunar Magic will always do regular damage spells on bosses, that thing is even more attractive.  Having said that, Luna isn't suppose to do "damage" (Luna Palace doesn't have boss for that reason, probably).  And it'll be a pain when you're trying to make an enemy into Mimic, but it ends up killing it.

Still, awesome.

As requested, here is my Change Form list (all different types/elements):
Code: [Select]
' Rabite --> Ma Goblin (aka Goblin Guard)
@OFF $C8E5F3
RAW 0E

' Mushboom --> Dark Funk
@OFF $C8E5F4
RAW 0F

' Lullabud --> Crawler
@OFF $C8E5F5
RAW 10

' Kid Goblin --> Zombie
@OFF $C8E5F6
RAW 12

' Green Drop --> Nemesis Owl
@OFF $C8E5F7
RAW 15

' Water Thug --> Mimic Box
@OFF $C8E5F8
RAW 2D

' Pebbler --> Weepy Eye
@OFF $C8E5F9
RAW 33

' Pumpkin Bomb --> Shellblast
@OFF $C8E5FA
RAW 34

' Mimic Box type = Fish/Plant -> Dragon
@OFF $D02127
RAW 80

As you can see, I changed Mimic to Dragon type, since none of the regular enemies fit the profile of "Dragon".

Also, I changed things for Shape Shifter possibilities:
Code: [Select]
' Mimic Box --> (same)
' @OFF $D09CF3
' RAW 2D

' Rabite --> Mushgloom
@OFF $D09CFB
RAW 2A

' Eggplant Man --> Needlion
@OFF $D09D03
RAW 3C

' Captain Duck --> (same)
' @OFF $D09D0B
' RAW 41

' Beast Zombie --> Gremlin
@OFF $D09D10
RAW 46

I just didn't want players to have early access to Imp's Ring, so I got rid of Eggplant Man (Needlion's Needle Helm is alright, since you have access to Basilisk and National Scar, who have better helmet anyways).  And more importantly, all these guys are sort of signature/recurring monsters of Mana series (again, different types, different elements).  I didn't include Silktail, because Silktail is too weak at this point of game.

Ahh, so that's what happened with Luna/Dryad weakness.  Haha.  Thank you for figuring that out.

Now, I have another request (among my other requests, like the Goblin Village shortcut and Moogle SE on enemies):
- Can you make Blaze Wall's target to Enemies and Allies?  That way, when enemies are around, you'd use the regular Blaze Wall, but when they're not, you'd use it on yourself for Inferno Barrier.  The name should retain its original name (Blaze Wall), since "Wall" name still applies, even on yourself.

That way, I can use kethinov's Firenado (for its graphic purpose), and still use Shadow Saber (I hesitated Shadow Saber, because I wanted to have a spell with Evil Gate graphic).  I was really bored with the vanilla's Salamander spell pool, and Explode was the most lazy of them all.  With that addition though, I'd have to get rid of Lava Wave's Engulf status (since I want regular 61PWR fire spell too).

As a [good] side effect, it'll make NPC Blaze Wall unnecessary.

Thank you.




September 24, 2019, 07:15:41 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
@Queue  @kethinov

A request (again):  Can you make a patch that switches Fire Bouquet and Speed Up?  I feel like Gnome having two "enhancements" while Salamando has large amount of "damage" spells is unnecessary.  And while at it, make Fire Bouquet's <damage + atk down> to <SE = Petrify> (no, it doesn't do damage, although Petrify SE will do damage to non-bosses who are vulnerable to Petrify).  Spell name is Stone Smoke (the color of spell should be changed to something brown/grey).  This will make some of the enemies a bit more difficult, but that's alright (Mech Rider will be abusing the heck out of it, but at least he won't be casting Speed Up on YOUR party though).  That way, players would have access (other than Lunar Magic) to cause petrify to enemies (assuming Mud Saber replaces Stone Saber).  It won't be as powerful as Stone Saber either (since it's not Petrify + damage).  It should remain its 3MP cost though (better than Balloon, but not as good as Blaze Wall).

And add the missing Atk Down to Lucent Beam or Dark Force.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 03:58:27 am by hmsong »

zoolgremlin

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #486 on: September 24, 2019, 08:55:18 pm »
@Queue
Quote
It feels like these are going to be nitpicks but I'm not intending to pick on you, just seems to be how this post worked out; genuinely just trying to be informative.
  • And regarding notepad et al., wwwwhhhhooooaaaa hold your horses.
  • I'd suggest getting a purpose-built text editor.  For Turbo's ZPS they just need to support UTF-8 text files with byte order mark.
  • I like the Luna Revivifier name suggestion, but I want to avoid name changes when possible.
  • The result was that yes, Dryad weakness is working, but I suspect I know what problem you're seeing. 100 power is really high so the spell was doing WAY over the damage cap.

Quite a few discussion points came up, I'll just quickly run through the Quoted ones above, and let things roll freely afterwards.

Don't worry at all about coming off as "nitpicky", I value your advice in matters of programming and data analysis.  Because I'm almost certain you've either done this professionally (as a paid job/career), or... you've practised programming a LOT, as a hobby.  :)

  • "Touche`!  Mine ears do sting at thy tongue!  I shall away, in search of easier folly!"  (I jest, it's a paraphrase from another Square Enix game.)

    I was half-joking about the MS stuff too, but the point is well-met.  You're right, Notepad isn't a "word-processor", after all.  On the plus side, I am reminded now that this is ROMhacking.net, not RandomlyBeatUpOnSquare&Microsoft.net!  That website name would never fit the screen as a header/banner, as entertaining as it may be to... some.  Who, me?  Noooooo... except yes.  :angel:  >:D
  • Ahaaah hahaaah!  So UTF-8 Text is the format needed for compatibility with ZPS.  I will look for such a text-editor after a nap... thanks very much for your patience and guidance.
  • That's okay, it's not required to put it in.  I don't really use Relocalized, so I don't think in terms of compatibility with it.  Glad you like the name...
  • Great catch with the Luna/Dryad mystery.  I knew that the battle system uses ceiling/floor values in several places, just didn't imagine hmsong was actually hitting the damage ceiling.  When I tested Lunar Magic with the damage-only algorithm, I wasn't hitting it.  The answer to a question might seem obvious, but if it's only after someone else told you, that's nothing to crow about.  Except for the other person.  Ehehe... I'm much obliged to you for looking into it, and finding the answer.  Many cheers!   :beer:



And thus I prove what's already known:  Put up a sign saying "End-Of-All-Existence Switch", someone's bound to press it, so don't mark it as such.  Put something in a Spoiler, someone's bound to look at it, so maybeeee... don't write that?

Is that the gist of it?  I should take up meditation again.  At least what I said wasn't as vile as my Comments in, well... my proto-list of Experimental Tweaks.

Between trying to be funny, and racist slurs against the Japanese, it's just as well my proverbial "axe" wasn't flying completely off the handle.  I still feel chastised, though.  So there's that.  Off to bed now, see you all later.   8)



hmsong  Apologies for my loooong explanation of the obvious, with the Element-Wheel stuff.  Somehow, I got it in my head that you were confused about it (nope).  Perhaps I should Delete that entire Post... hope you have a good one.   :) <whew>
« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 09:58:35 am by zoolgremlin »
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hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #487 on: September 24, 2019, 09:09:18 pm »
@zoolgremlin

No apologies necessary.  I'm the one who used rather... poor choice of words. :P

September 25, 2019, 12:36:14 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

@Queue

You're right about the spell rebalance.  There's a lot of spell editing going on right now (and I requested even more).  I'll do another list after the dust settles.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 12:43:34 am by hmsong »

Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #488 on: September 25, 2019, 02:19:32 am »
Maybe Lunar Magic should still have a bit of randomness for Bosses too, even tho none status effect really do anything to them. But I wont mind it, It seems like a pretty powerful spell, used it on Mega Xorn (Sheex), someone weak to Luna, level 7 luna magic did more than 800 damage, or even 900 sometimes! (I was using also the spear that increases your int/wisdom so that could play a role too).

hmsong

Players can have early access to gauntlets from the dark knights in dark palace. Or if by some mircale the dark stalker drops the ninja gauntlet in tasnica. Besides the Eggplantman drops the Watcher Ring not the Imps ring, that one is dropped by the ghost in pure land.

No big deal in having him drop the watchers ring too through the shapeshifters when you have access to gauntlets in Dark Palace, then ninja gloves on the grand temple too. All these equipment make you too powerful for that dungeon but are more useful for Pure Land (I have that one patch active where you cannot get the same piece of equipment twice, so getting just one piece of each is no big deal).

Keep in mind with your stone smoke idea Spikey will cast Speed up possibly on your party.

Dark Force with atk and possibly magical atk down would be neat. Dark lich would love that if luck manages to get him cast that spell before I take him out lol.

Also I tested a level 4 burst on the marmaglue and it did almost 800 damage. The weakness works more than fine I suppose haha.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 02:42:56 am by Mr X »

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #489 on: September 25, 2019, 03:05:56 am »
Mr X

You're right about the Gauntlets from Dark Knights (and Metal Crawlers).  But Gauntlet is something you can buy later (and will ultimately sell away at some point).  You're not gonna grind for it (nor will you grind for Needle Helm).  Watcher Ring (thanks for the correction) is something you keep, just because it has SE protection.  You know you do.  Ninja Gloves is an issue, but I can't do anything about that (I don't want to mess with the drop items).  Regardless, I just personally don't want players to have access to Watcher Ring as early as Sage's cave.  Obviously, if you're using that patch to keep only one kind of item, then you can simply keep the original values.

Spikey won't Speed Up your party.  The reason Mech Rider uses Speed Up on your party is because he casts Wall on himself (if he's attack by a spell), THEN use Speed Up.  Spikey won't do that.  He'll use Speed Up on himself.  That'll actually work in his favor, since Spikey uses a lot of melee attacks (in fact, Speed Up may make him even tougher).  And Speed Up also affects his Fire Breath (since that's counted as melee), so that'll work in his favor too.

Attack Down on Lucent Beam will work great, since the main means of hurting Mana Beast is through melee.  Primm will have to use Lunar Boost to cancel that out (using Dispel on your party would cancel out Mana Magic, so that's no good).

zoolgremlin

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #490 on: September 25, 2019, 03:19:17 am »
Quote
hmsong  No apologies necessary.  I'm the one who used rather... poor choice of words. :P

Ah well, I dunno about that.  Perhaps I didn't read your description of the problem closely enough.  Anyway, no harm done.   :thumbsup:

Changing Mech Rider III's Wall-cast to Lucid Barrier is a tweak I'm gonna do for myself, once I know the single byte to change in his AI, I'll put it in my prototype list.  Only difference is, I probably don't have to put the list on Google Drive anymore, since I have "Programmer's Notebook" installed, which can save changes to the ZPS in UTF-8 format.  Exactly what it started with...  :)

Also will experiment with Mana Beast's AI, and a few others, but... first I'm gonna read back through this thread.  There are a number of requests people had, some of them yours.  Can't remember them all by-heart, so looks like I will have a "Bucket List" as well.

That nap certainly cleared my head.  No more axe-flying-off-handle... stuff just yet.  Back later... cheers.   8)
« Last Edit: October 30, 2019, 05:35:01 pm by zoolgremlin »
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Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #491 on: September 25, 2019, 03:22:45 am »
Mr X

You're right about the Gauntlets from Dark Knights (and Metal Crawlers).  But Gauntlet is something you can buy later (and will ultimately sell away at some point).  You're not gonna grind for it (nor will you grind for Needle Helm).  Watcher Ring (thanks for the correction) is something you keep, just because it has SE protection.  You know you do.  Ninja Gloves is an issue, but I can't do anything about that (I don't want to mess with the drop items).  Regardless, I just personally don't want players to have access to Watcher Ring as early as Sage's cave.  Obviously, if you're using that patch to keep only one kind of item, then you can simply keep the original values.

Spikey won't Speed Up your party.  The reason Mech Rider uses Speed Up on your party is because he casts Wall on himself (if he's attack by a spell), THEN use Speed Up.  Spikey won't do that.  He'll use Speed Up on himself.  That'll actually work in his favor, since Spikey uses a lot of melee attacks (in fact, Speed Up may make him even tougher).  And Speed Up also affects his Fire Breath (since that's counted as melee), so that'll work in his favor too.

Then it isn't that big of an issue for the eggplantman to appear that early neither, all it does is protect against the moogle effect, which may only  come in handy once you are in pure land vs the dragon worm. Besides it's a rare drop and getting items through shapeshifters is a pain in of itself, good luck with that those that are comited to do that haha. There is already and eggpland man in the underground city too, at the end of the train.


Oh yes I know about that, I was just speculating. But yeah, you are right, that works on his favor which I really like actually when bosses are made like that, instead of fights like the dumb mech rider 3 ones, or having too many damaging spells like thanatos that offer him nothing, not like you have elemental weakness.
But anyway let's wait and see.

Attack Down on Lucent Beam will work great, since the main means of hurting Mana Beast is through melee.  Primm will have to use Lunar Boost to cancel that out (using Dispel on your party would cancel out Mana Magic, so that's no good).

No love for the Lich huh

September 25, 2019, 03:30:34 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
An odd thing I ran into, in the underground city, right before you enter the "train" Duck General is there in animation, attacks, uses his spell but does no damage, and I can't target him. Seems like I killed him but his animation didn't disappear.

I tried that specific area again, but it worked just fine, they disappeared upon killing them.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 03:36:14 am by Mr X »

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #492 on: September 25, 2019, 03:50:30 am »
Quote
There is already and eggpland man in the underground city too, at the end of the train.

Oh yeah.  You're right.  I forgot about that.  Well jeez.  That makes my actions... in vain.  Sigh.  I'm gonna ponder some more.

EDIT: I have pondered some more, and I decided to stick with what I have (for now).  I can't come up with a better list, at least not without adding in weaker enemies.  Well, Metal Crawler and Steelpion were candidates (for Dryad and Gnome element enemy), but I liked Mushgloom and Needlion better (they are significantly more threatening).  And I didn't like Kimono Wizard for whatever reason.

Quote
No love for the Lich huh

Actually, I attached Poison to Dark Force.  Because Dark Force animation is long, the poison will do lots of damage BEFORE the Dark Force actually does damage (except when it casts Lv9, in which case, poison does not start).  This is the biggest upside to Poison over Engulf.  And because the target is stun-locked, you can't do anything while the poison does its thing (unless you switch control to another character, and then use item/spell to cure the victim).  Having said that, Sleep Flower already has Poison SE, so I'm still debating.  And if you have Faerie Ring equipped, poison won't affect you.

If Queue succeeds in making Moogle work on enemies (disable melee while allowing movement), I'll probably give Moogle to Lucent Beam, and give Atk Down to Dark Force.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 04:30:21 am by hmsong »

Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #493 on: September 25, 2019, 04:36:36 am »
Imo, Moogle and making you tiny should be the enemy's version of transforming you into a weaker character, like their version of transform. You wont get transformed into a weaker monster, but a moogle or tiny, or both.

September 25, 2019, 04:40:59 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Actually, I attached Poison to Dark Force.  Because Dark Force animation is long, the poison will do lots of damage BEFORE the Dark Force actually does damage (except when it casts Lv9, in which case, poison does not start).  This is the biggest upside to Poison over Engulf.  And because the target is stun-locked, you can't do anything while the poison does its thing (unless you switch control to another character, and then use item/spell to cure the victim).  Having said that, Sleep Flower already has Poison SE, so I'm still debating.  And if you have Faerie Ring equipped, poison won't affect you.


That's why the patch of having only one of the same item is awesome. You also have other status effects you have to worry about too, the rings I use at the end are imps ring, amulet ring and faerie ring.

Imp ring for engulfment, frostying, Amulet ring for petrify, Faerie ring for poison, pygmying, frostying, dizziness, ballooning.

But anyway, I still like the sleep flower having the poison status, as the sleep status only makes it kind of useless as a spell. Imo at least.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 04:44:26 am by Mr X »

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #494 on: September 25, 2019, 04:48:35 am »
Does anyone know where the codes are for seeing which equipment nullifies which SE?  I'd love to play around with those.  And add Mire status immunity.

September 25, 2019, 04:51:30 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

@Mr X

I agree that Sleep Flower that has Poison is awesome.  So much better to that useless spell.

My final equipment = Cockatrice Cap (for all 3 chars), since that nullifies Petrify.  And Faerie Ring, since that nullifies lots of stats.  Amulet Ring is unnecessary, since Cockatrice Cap is so much better (you can have em all).  But I still keep all the final rings, for the novelty.

zoolgremlin

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #495 on: September 25, 2019, 06:23:12 am »
@hmsong  The Armor Table starts at address $D03ED0 (00103ED0 in HxD column, so Bank 0x10), though just now I seem to be having trouble working out... where it ends.  My mind was clear before, but after washing the dishes... so frustrating.   :banghead:

I will check slowly, deliberately, with HxD.  Just a moment, please...  :)



Got it!  From $D03ED0 (00103ED0 in HxD Address Column)  to $D04145 (00104145 in HxD Address Column).  There you go!  Full Armor, Helmet and Accessory Data Table coming soon...  :crazy:

@Mr. X  Vanilla Cockatrice Cap is indeed a fine piece of equipment.  I use it in the Remake all the time...

And yes, although I didn't really think about it before, Vanilla Pygmy and Moogle are the character equivalent of Transform.  The immunities between them on one side, and Transform on the monster's side, are swapped around.   :)

@Queue  Sorry.  Forgot to say days ago, that I like the idea of the Mired status being called Quagmired, if you decide to go with that.   :laugh:
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 10:58:51 am by zoolgremlin »
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Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #496 on: September 25, 2019, 06:37:33 am »
Does anyone know where the codes are for seeing which equipment nullifies which SE?  I'd love to play around with those.  And add Mire status immunity.

September 25, 2019, 04:51:30 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

@Mr X

I agree that Sleep Flower that has Poison is awesome.  So much better to that useless spell.

My final equipment = Cockatrice Cap (for all 3 chars), since that nullifies Petrify.  And Faerie Ring, since that nullifies lots of stats.  Amulet Ring is unnecessary, since Cockatrice Cap is so much better (you can have em all).  But I still keep all the final rings, for the novelty.

I simply give the cocratice cap to the one character that doesn't have amulet ring, otherwise I would go with more or less the same equipment as you, but that's kinda boring so I have the unique equipment patch always on for more fun and variety.  :)

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #497 on: September 25, 2019, 10:19:38 am »
@kethinov

I used the Firenado patch, and it doesn't seem to work.  The spell menu icon changed and the MP cost changed, but its name is still Explode, and when I use it, the game freezes.  Did anyone else experience that?

Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #498 on: September 25, 2019, 11:09:52 am »
@kethinov

I used the Firenado patch, and it doesn't seem to work.  The spell menu icon changed and the MP cost changed, but its name is still Explode, and when I use it, the game freezes.  Did anyone else experience that?

I experienced that too. The game crashed and it had the same gfx as the shadow saber but in salamando palette for me also.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 12:56:52 pm by Mr X »

zoolgremlin

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 190923
« Reply #499 on: September 25, 2019, 11:37:17 am »
hmsong & Mr. X  I have the patch on my hard drive, but haven't tried using it yet.  If I had to guess, I'd say... it might not have had any compatibility fixes with other mods/patches in Turbo.  Except for Proper-caser.  Is that how you used the patch?   :huh:



@Queue  I... didn't think I'd be Commenting here again so soon.  But I was wondering if you knew about the unused data at $C06383-$C06432.  I'm looking at your [Overwrite_Unused_Data] patch with Programmer's Notepad (which seems to get the job done...  8)), and Regrs, zhaDe or Enker Commented on this code sector.  Is that one of the sectors that your patch zeroes out?   :)
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 11:51:11 am by zoolgremlin »
If you try to fail, and succeed, what've you done?!