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Author Topic: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191113  (Read 95277 times)

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #760 on: October 20, 2019, 08:05:37 pm »
@kethinov

I see.  That's too bad.  I didn't even know Hellfire had the same problem with the high their animation.  I wonder why.

I don't think I have the skills to "make a list of their animation pointers, find the code in bank D1 it points to that describes the animation for each level of each spell, and then map out every line of code that sets a palette to make a list of the values that way".  I'm sure it'll be better for the long run, but my skills are just too low to do something like that.

I guess I'll just plug in random numbers and see what color it comes out.  At least I know the address of where to edit the thing, so thanks.  That alone is significant help.  And the new Speed Up color works great.  I'm sure there are numerous different shades of red, but I can't tell the difference.  I'll let you know once I find the color that I like.

On another note, I eagerly wait for the new Empire Gate patch (switches Whip-Javelin).  Most people don't get bothered by such thing, but for whatever reason, I do.  Sorry, and thanks.

Btw, I see that you are working on LOTS of new spells.  That's wonderful.  However, keep in mind that there's a limiting factor for the enemies -- MP limit.  For example, Hellfire/Evil Gate/Lunar Magic costs whooping 12 MP.  And as a result, some enemies can cast so few times.  Captain Duck, for example, can only cast Hellfire once, since his MP is 22 (and Hellfire is 12).  And with 4MP Cure Water, Bite Lizard can only heal himself once (his MP is 6).  As a result, they end up just standing around, shooting blanks like impotent idiots (Captain Duck is funny, because he would just lie down on the floor, saying "I'm tired of this crap").  I think it would be good idea to raise the Max MP for some bosses/enemies.  I'm gonna do some of that for my [Spell_Balance_Overhaul] at some point, and you're free to use that for your patches.



@Queue

Awesome!  I hope you can figure the high their spell animation problem.  Apparently, Hellfire has the same problem.

I see, so that's how Magic Rope works.  Hmm.  I guess Magic Rope that works on Mana Fortress is not gonna work out (unless you get rid of Neko saving or something -- and Neko saving is awesome).  Oh well.

kethinov

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #761 on: October 20, 2019, 08:59:15 pm »
I think the right solution to enemy MP is to just increase enemy MP using my "Adjust Enemy Difficulty" hacks. Personally, I always apply the 500% MP hack to all enemies and bosses. Much simpler and cleaner than trying to adjust it in a hack that alters the spells themselves.

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #762 on: October 20, 2019, 10:33:53 pm »
@kethinov

Oh, right.  That'll work.  Much simpler indeed.  Haha.


@Queue

Apparently, I forgot to add something to the [Equipment_Tweaks].  I guess I didn't post it here, for whatever reason:

Wolf's Band (Nothing --> +Confuse)
Shield Ring (Nothing --> +Constitution +5)
Guardian Ring (Nothing --> +Engulf)

Code: [Select]
' Metal Crab Common Drop (Vestguard --> Amulet Helm)
@OFF $D03B84
RAW 12

' National Scar Rare Drop (Amulet Helm --> Vestguard)
@OFF $D03BD0
RAW 26

' Cockatrice Cap M-Def
@OFF $D03F7D
RAW 8E

' Amulet Helm Stat
@OFF $D03F85
RAW 96 17 96

' Amulet Helm - Popoi Only
@OFF $D03F89
RAW 20

' Faerie Crown - Primm Only
@OFF $D03F9D
RAW 40

' Vampire Cape Stat
@OFF $D04056
RAW 44 FA 25 64

' Vampire Cape - Popoi Only
@OFF $D0405B
RAW 20

' Faerie Cloak - Primm Only
@OFF $D0406F
RAW 40

' Wolf's Band (Nothing --> +Confuse)
@OFF $D040AD
RAW 80 00

' Shield Ring (Nothing --> +Constitution +5)
@OFF $D040E2
RAW 44

' Guardian Ring (Nothing --> +Engulf)
@OFF $D040FD
RAW 00 40

' Ninja Gloves (+Slow --> +Slow, +Balloon)
@OFF $D04111
RAW 04 01

' Dragon Ring (Nothing --> +Mire, +Confuse)
@OFF $D0411B
RAW 88 00

' Watcher Ring (+Moogle --> +Pygmy, +Moogle)
@OFF $D04125
RAW 00 12

' Amulet Ring (+Petrify --> +Sleep, +Petrify, +Poison)
@OFF $D04139
RAW 50 20
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 04:53:04 am by hmsong »

Mr X

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #763 on: October 21, 2019, 05:22:32 am »
Yeah I think it's a good idea to increase the mp of bosses/some enemies a lot more, especially when you have two mp consoming spells they will run out of MP very fast.

Mech rider 3 would also be more difficult with the dust flare he would cast it constantly, he ran out of mp rather quick and I was absorbing it so he casted it like 1 time at best.

 And instead of Wall give him some stat buffing spell and/or Blaze Wall so he would have deadlier attacks, he doesn't deal any damage to anyone.


Same for Hexas, a lot more mp would help her, she casts these various spells (still deal barely any damage to me tho, at least if she gets lucky to cast lava wave engulf would be a powerful tool) but eats mp too fast.

A better idea I had for her is give her ice/thunder/stone/fire/shadow saber to cast on herself when she changes her phases, as for offensive spells being acid rain/confuse/lava wave/dispel/dust flare or speed down (depending on which patch one applies).

But I think that is moreso of a idea for the far future.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 07:00:37 am by Mr X »

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #764 on: October 21, 2019, 02:23:14 pm »
teahouser, have you tried continuing further? The event flags and such are a tangled mess that early in the game, and after doing some testing, realized I couldn't reproduce exactly what order you did certain things just by guessing (on one attempt I went through the witch's castle before even visiting the water palace, or having Dyluck and his team enter the forest). So far I haven't gotten totally stuck anywhere, just some of the dialogue is extra dumb when it has the girl and/or sprite talking when they aren't in my group. Right now my instinct is to put a strict 3-person requirement on the extendo bridge in the witch's castle (even though the guard says you need three to stand on it, all that conversation is doing is changing an event flag to enable the button); it's sad to restrict access, but there are TONS of dialogues after that point that have the girl and/or sprite speak so all that jank could be avoided. That said, even in vanilla you could do the Pandora Ruins early (I'm pretty sure) and that probably messed stuff up too, so I dunno for sure yet. I'm generally against fixing sequence breaks unless they're too easy to do by accident (or make the game unbeatable), and generally consider them to be up to the player's discretion.

hmsong, can you test Wolf Lord defense with New_Game_Plus Off? Additionally, are you currently using any additional IPS-based patches when seeing the problem?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 06:31:47 pm by Queue »

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #765 on: October 21, 2019, 07:00:59 pm »
@Queue

I never used NG+ feature at all.  And I didn't add anything outside the Turbo patch (even though I'll probably add them at some point, but not while I'm still testing things out for Dust Flare).  Just in case, I redid the patch on my rom, from a fresh copy of the game and Turbo patch.  Nope.  Still raises the DEF for Wolf Lord.

Here is my .ini file.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=18x9HGjxbXHOtvQAAkyiqdi8XNQZQc-mJ

Also, please include the following in Dust Flare (there is already IFNOT _Mud_Saber, so include it in there):

Code: [Select]
IFNOT _Mud_Saber_-_Replaces_Stone_Saber
@OFF $D8FD84 'stone saber menu palette color
RAW 86 7F
ENDIF



@kethinov

Okay, here's the color I decided to go with (yellow + black):

Code: [Select]
@OFF $D8FD86 'Dust Flare Menu palette + color
RAW A0 C1
@OFF $D18F34 'Dust Flare 1/2 animation color
RAW B8
@OFF $D18F5D 'Dust Flare 3 animation color
RAW B8

@OFF $D8FD9E 'Speed Up Menu palette + color
RAW 08 A7
@OFF $D18B05 'Speed Up 1/2 C8 animation color
RAW 88
@OFF $D18B16 'Speed Up 3 C8 animation color
RAW 88

Alternatively, here's another one (brown) <-- flickers with black:

Code: [Select]
@OFF $D8FD86 'Dust Flare Menu palette + color
RAW A0 A0
@OFF $D18F34 'Dust Flare 1/2 animation color
RAW 7B
@OFF $D18F5D 'Dust Flare 3 animation color
RAW 7B

@OFF $D8FD9E 'Speed Up Menu palette + color
RAW 08 A7
@OFF $D18B05 'Speed Up 1/2 animation color
RAW 88
@OFF $D18B16 'Speed Up 3 animation color
RAW 88

I'd like to hear your (and everyone else's) opinion on the colors.  Having said that, the third tier spell of Dust Flare still isn't working, so I don't know what that'll look like.  I can only hope Queue solves that issue.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 03:13:14 am by hmsong »

teahouser

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #766 on: October 22, 2019, 12:59:24 am »
Hey Queue, yes I have tried continuing further, but I'm pretty sure I'm stuck. I went into the dawrf village and watched the sprites show/confront them in the back for my money back, but leaving the room doesn't trigger the earthquake event that warps me, the sprite, and the dwarf to the main floor where the sprite joins the team.

When NG+ started, I went from the village to the warp gate infront of the water palace, talked to dyluck and his men then followed them through the gate. Used the whip to get back entry to forest, warped to the witches castle then beat it.

Another thing I noticed is when you start new game plus whatever weapons the girl and Sprite had equipped when you beat the game, stay equipped on them. Selecting a weapon they have switches it with the one the boy is using, so you can't set his secondary weapon to either of the two weapons the sprite and girl have equipped. Could you make it so the Girl and Sprite have their weapons automatically unequipped when new game plus starts?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 02:21:29 am by teahouser »

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #767 on: October 22, 2019, 07:39:06 pm »
hmsong, darn, was hoping it was related to how I repurposed event flag 0xFB for New Game Plus.

teahouser, the game actually doesn't have a means of unequipping a player's weapon (via the event system, but also just in general). The weird "tossing the weapon offscreen to swap" is vanilla behavior that you see if a party member is kicked from the party for whatever reason. While I could potentially add the capability (and would need to add the ability to equip a weapon when they join the party, since normally character naming / creation does that, and that's skipped on New Game Plus otherwise it resets their stats), it's low on my list of priorities since it's just an inconvenience / annoyance.

I think what I'm going to pursue to solve you being stuck is disable the ability to complete the witch's castle if you don't have all 3 characters (it's looking overwhelming to support this as a viable route), then add a means of resetting the current New Game Plus loop (probably by talking to the Potos bartender, so it's hard to do on accident, but possible at almost any point in the game).

teahouser

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #768 on: October 22, 2019, 08:07:39 pm »
teahouser, the game actually doesn't have a means of unequipping a player's weapon (via the event system, but also just in general). The weird "tossing the weapon offscreen to swap" is vanilla behavior that you see if a party member is kicked from the party for whatever reason. While I could potentially add the capability (and would need to add the ability to equip a weapon when they join the party, since normally character naming / creation does that, and that's skipped on New Game Plus otherwise it resets their stats), it's low on my list of priorities since it's just an inconvenience / annoyance.

I think what I'm going to pursue to solve you being stuck is disable the ability to complete the witch's castle if you don't have all 3 characters (it's looking overwhelming to support this as a viable route), then add a means of resetting the current New Game Plus loop (probably by talking to the Potos bartender, so it's hard to do on accident, but possible at almost any point in the game).

Since I'm stuck, I don't mind starting a new game plus again to continue looking for bugs for you.

As far as needing to have 3 characters as a requirement to beat the witches castle, I think that's a good way to solve the issue. I was thinking maybe you could make the front door to the castle "locked" unless you have a full party assembled?

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #769 on: October 22, 2019, 08:42:06 pm »
I changed it so you can't free the guards in the jail unless you have all 3 characters (and so can't extend the bridge using the button). It can fail to make sense if you go there and see them before talking to Dyluck and his men just south of the Water Palace, but eh, it's functional with minimal changes required. I actually want it where the guard says the "need 3 people" line so that there's an explanation on why a button doesn't work. But currently it blocks the whole conversation event.

The gate in the first castle room could potentially be the blocking point if the event is easy to change. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll need to take another look at this after I get the emergency reset figured out.

teahouser

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #770 on: October 22, 2019, 11:24:52 pm »
Does the difficulty level increase with new game plus?

Changing it to freeing the guards in jail is a great spot as well. I thought you couldn't revisit Potos after you get banished, or can it be revisited in your version?

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #771 on: October 22, 2019, 11:38:40 pm »
Right now, New Game Plus difficulty is a mess. Enemies melee hard enough (and boss special attacks) to hurt the players, and they have more health so they can survive, generally, at least 1 player melee attack, but their other stats are junk and their spell damage is unbuffed.

Well, revisit Potos via glitching past the gate guard (2+ characters, press up against him and constantly cycle active character until you squish past him, it's also how you can get into the Pandora Ruins early).
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 12:15:26 am by Queue »

teahouser

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #772 on: October 23, 2019, 12:39:57 am »
Right now, New Game Plus difficulty is a mess. Enemies melee hard enough (and boss special attacks) to hurt the players, and they have more health so they can survive, generally, at least 1 player melee attack, but their other stats are junk and their spell damage is unbuffed.

Well, revisit Potos via glitching past the gate guard (2+ characters, press up against him and constantly cycle active character until you squish past him, it's also how you can get into the Pandora Ruins early).

I never knew that about Pandora ruins or Potos, that's handy! That especially makes  the potos bartender a good place for emergency game reset. I'll just hold off until you release this next update with the reset and I'll restart that way to test it out.

I definitely noticed enemies hit harder physically. Question, whenever I set my allies ACT charge settings to a higher charge value than 0, they'll charge up, attack, then they just stop attacking and just stand there. You have to move around a bit and that'll snap them back into charging their attacks once and then they're zombies again. It makes me almost always leave their charge setting at 0 just so they're constantly attacking/doing damage. I'm assuming this is a known vanilla ally targeting AI bug.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 12:57:48 am by teahouser »

kethinov

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #773 on: October 23, 2019, 12:57:33 am »
I found a couple bugs while doing another run through. I'm not sure which hack(s) is causing them.

1. Wizard Eye casts Dispel Magic on me over and over again even though my status effects are all cleared. My suspicion is this has something to do with my having cast Inferno Barrier on myself earlier, but I'm not really sure. I did edit the Wizard Eye AI in my "HP Absorb for the Girl" hack, but all I did was replace his Remedy cast with Cure Water (which does seem to be working).

2. When multi-targeting Cure Water, I've seen some instances where wildly different numbers get applied, e.g. a 3 digit number for Randi and Primm and a 2 digit number for Popoi that goes beyond the reasonable boundaries of randomness, like some kind of calculation error is happening. I have no idea what could be causing this. My current suspicion is the function overloading that I did in "Cure Water Both Heals and Cures" is the cause, but it's just a guess.

Can anyone confirm these bugs?

zoolgremlin

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #774 on: October 23, 2019, 03:53:44 am »
Hi everyone.  I'm terribly sorry not to have Posted for, what is it, 3 or 4 days straight?  CORRECTION:  7!  <long sigh>  :(

A quick(ish) explanation about that:  I've been doing a bit of volunteer work in good ol' MeatSpace, I think that's what the "cool" kids call it.  None of it seemed that strenuous on the surface, but damnably it was.  A fair bit of recuperation was needed for body and mind, so that meant that basically NO work got done on my end of the Project, if I may refer to it as such.  Either on the Google Drive Documents, or on my experimental mods/hacks.  Of the two, it's the Documents that are basically more significant, but I've had both on my mind the whole time.

Hell, I haven't even replied to the bug reports and other discussion points in this thread!  There's quite a lot since my last appearance... replying to them all in one Post is probably not feasible.

I can at least say that I've gotten a bit further in my experimentations, but I'm in the process of setting up to do these in a more... systematic way.  So that I don't accidentally mess things up, and have to rewrite my proto-ZPS files from an earlier version.  Yes, that did happen, though thankfully only twice.

I have also read through the Posts that have come up in the thread in the last few days, but not yet sure what to reply to or not.  I'll go through them again, and this time around I will have the time and energy to respond, if needed.  Apologies again... <whew>  :-\
« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 11:07:24 am by zoolgremlin »
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Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #775 on: October 23, 2019, 04:08:11 am »
kethinov, while I haven't verified in-game, looking at the Wizard Eye's AI, it looks like it was likely Inferno Barrier, but also technically a vanilla flaw in its AI: it casts Dispel Magic if its target either has Saber uses left or Lucid Barrier health (which Inferno Barrier stores its element in, so also makes it non-zero), which should mean in vanilla a Wizard Eye would spam cast dispel if you had Lucid Barrier on.

I almost "fixed" this by including zero-ing out Lucid Barrier health in SSE's Dispel Magic, but then commented it out as it's normally unnecessary, since the correct way is to check for the (Lucid) Barrier flag, instead of its remaining health or armor. The "correct" correct thing will be to fix the Wizard Eye's AI, since vanilla Dispel doesn't strip Lucid Barrier, so its AI is faulty.

Ramble-y, because I need to sleep. -_-

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #776 on: October 23, 2019, 04:57:43 am »
@zoolgremlin

Welcome back.  Few things got updated.  Queue, kethinov, and me.

I'm sure Queue will appreciate any bug reports.  Better late than never.



@kethinov, everyone

So, what do you think about my Dust Flare animation color?  Any better suggestions?



@Queue

I hope you can solve that 3rd tier spell animation issue.  For my Dust Flare and kethinov's Hellfire.

I tried to turn off some of the patches here and there to see which one is causing the Moon Saber problem.  So far, I know that it's from [Balance], and there are multiple patches that make it that way.  Here's my experiments so far (Lv99 Randi with the final spear against Wolf Lord):

Vanilla normal/moon saber: ~125
[Enemy_Type_And_Element_Changes] + [Luna_And_Dryad_Weaknesses] : ~40
[Enemy_Type_And_Element_Changes]: normal: ~180  moon saber: ~75
[Luna_And_Dryad_Weaknesses] : 125

Remember, my enemy element changes Wolf Lord to Luna type.  My guess is that with Saber and monster element being the same will cause higher def?  Maybe just for Moon Saber?  I'm not sure if [Reduce Moon Saber] is involved.  This may be vanilla behavior.  If it's vanilla, you think this was intended?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 10:04:57 pm by hmsong »

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #777 on: October 23, 2019, 10:54:20 pm »
I finally found the code that loads the high level spell animations, so I should be close to having them figured out. Hopefully didn't jinx myself.

I don't want to guess if the Moon Saber issue is vanilla intended behavior (it's so weird for enemy element and enemy weapon element to interact, and with their defense?), but great research, that gives me something useful to check. Thank you.

Edit: Okay, finally something to report about high level spell visuals. First off, the game has a hard-coded list (a chain of if/else code) that matches up a spell by its ID number to one of 7 high level spell visuals. Secondly, I think all of the high level animation scripts are in bank 0x1C, but this I'm less sure on at the moment; just tracking down the code that decided which to use took forever, lots of calls back and forth between banks 0x01 and 0x13. In the short term, this info would allow moving high level spell visuals to a different spell, but not adding or cloning any; the if/else code that matches these up would be best replaced with a lookup table that would both take up less space and be faster, but this sort of solution doesn't lend itself well to stand-alone hacks like I imagine kethinov would want for Hellfire. Another option may be to use the spell target type to encode the high level animation, which would at least mean any stand-alone hacks could bundle the same code patch to support that change. I'll mull this over and come up with something.

This doesn't solve actually finding the data to control colors / palettes in these animations, but at least it'll get the animations themselves functioning from different spells than vanilla.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 02:02:15 am by Queue »

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191018
« Reply #778 on: October 24, 2019, 02:43:23 am »
I just confirmed with vanilla Ice Saber (Shellblast).  Yeah, it's vanilla behavior.  If the monster's element matches the saber element, then it gets DEF bonus (maybe other stats too -- can you check somehow?).  I may have to update some monster elements to take advantage of this (I already made Robin Foot into Fire element, and he uses Flame Saber).  I wonder if bosses get the bonus too... If so, I'm gonna make some bosses tougher.

Very interesting find.  I think I'd like to keep this "bug".  It makes enemies that use Saber magic tougher, assuming their element matches.  Too bad ninjas can't take advantage of this (they're all non-element or Shade).  I'm not gonna give them elements.  Evil Sword already has Luna element (it uses Moon Saber), and Doom Sword should remain non-elemental (it has 4 saber spells).

Obviously, players can't take advantage of this.

I'm gonna give Ice Saber to Turtlance, and give Thunder Saber to Metal Crab (or make Metal Crab into Light element).  And give Steamed Crab a Wind element, maybe.

If anyone else can think of other monster with element sabers, please let me know.  I'm gonna make them tougher.



Help:

Apparently, there are 4 regular enemies that casts Ice Saber (according to the codes).  I found 3 -- Shellblast, Darkstalker, and Doom Sword.  Who's the 4th?

Apparently, there are 3 regular enemies that casts Moon Saber.  I found 2 -- Evil Sword, and Wolf Lord.  Who's the 3rd? (It's not Werewolf)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 05:56:21 am by hmsong »

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 191024
« Reply #779 on: October 24, 2019, 06:20:35 am »
Version 2019-10-24:
https://ufile.io/en1w6sf4

Changes:
- Added ability to reset a New Game Plus loop by talking to the Potos Bartender after being banished
- Disabled route through witch's castle during New Game Plus if you go there without a full party
- Lava_Wave_-_Engulf modifies the Fire Gigas to only single target cast Lava Wave (previously it had changed him to cast a different spell, still multi-targeted)
- Updated hmsong's Equipment_Tweaks
- Improved Comprehensive_Dispel to clear all data related to Lucid Barrier on a successful Wall / Barrier dispel (bandaid for vanilla AI problems related to Dispel Magic and Lucid Barrier)
- Modified Shadow_Saber to allow the boy to make enemies lose mana even though he won't gain it; no penalty if he hits undead/ghost enemies
- Activated high level spell animation for Dust_Flare (no changes to its palette though, so it's fiery)
- Updated Dust_Flare in general (though whoops, left in the wrong icon color; was experimenting and forgot to set it back)
- Minor changes to Watts_In_Haunted_Forest; made Watts only visible if you've forged the axe to improve compatibility with New_Game_Plus and tiny optimization to its event script changes

Technical Changes:
- Rewrote No_Exp_When_Killing_Allies; different approach to the fix that fits within vanilla ROM space
- Optimized Ghosts_Dont_Block_Projectiles; same approach but fits within vanilla ROM space
- Small adjustment to No_Damage_While_Recovering to accommodate changes to Ghosts_Dont_Block_Projectiles
- Small optimization to Magic_Recharging
- Preliminary groundwork for Medusa Barrier (a possible enemy-only barrier spell)
- Semi-overhaul to New_Game_Plus to unify its event between vanilla, VWF Edition and Relocalized (easier to maintain and change)



Ice Thug and Turtlance, respectively. Not sure what the conditions are for them to actually cast them.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 02:04:40 pm by Queue »