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Author Topic: Secret of Mana: Relocalized  (Read 8101 times)

w1ck3d

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Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2019, 09:23:27 pm »
Do you think you can remake the Japanese SoM intro with the English heading? I did a quick Photoshop of the intro and filled in the blurred part (someone might be able to make it better). Feel free to use it.

Not sure if it'll help with editing, but a few years ago I scanned the pack-in poster & nintendo power poster in high resolution.

http://gallery.minitokyo.net/view/644867
http://gallery.minitokyo.net/view/670246

Timbo

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Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2019, 11:54:44 am »
Hey Timbo, have you thought about evening out the M of Mana in your custom logo, so it looks less... edited?



I was thinking something like this.

I can't believe I didn't see this the first time around. Now, that I've seen it, I can't un-see it and it needs to change. Here's the thing though. The title and all the text are all just preassembled tiles. I can rearrange them but I can't edit them individually. When I "smooshed" the "M" I just removed the two tiles just below the top and lowered the top down.

To date, Hiei- is the only person who has actually succeeded in editing the title tiles and he doesn't remember how he did it. If I could edit the tiles, I would turn them white and I would create a proper "2" tile. If anyone can point me in the right direction for getting in there and editing any/all of this, I would be happy to make new tiles. Possibly an entirely new logo out of them.

Here are some mockups I just made for the new title:


Otherwise. I'll just have to cut the pre-title completely.

vivify93

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Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2019, 12:33:44 pm »
Oh, gotcha. I'm sorry. I had no idea. I'd go with the first out of your edit suggestions.
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Timbo

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Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2019, 11:36:31 am »
Oh, gotcha. I'm sorry. I had no idea. I'd go with the first out of your edit suggestions.

No need to apologize. It's you hadn't bought it to my attention, that title image would still be a huge eyesore.

In fact, it started a discussion between me and Mziab and he's looking into extracting the intro tiles. It's looking promising...

We're still stuck with the crummy background but, if he pulls this off we can redraw the ascii text and make whole new title tiles.


FuSoYa

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Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2019, 06:51:19 pm »
If anyone can point me in the right direction for getting in there and editing any/all of this, I would be happy to make new tiles. Possibly an entirely new logo out of them.

You can grab Lunar Compress from https://fusoya.eludevisibility.org/lc/, then to extract and reinsert on a ROM with a header you'd just use:

decomp.exe som.smc title.bin 1CEA00 6 0
recomp.exe title.bin som.smc 1CEA00 6 0

Though you might want to recompress to a separate file first just to compare the compressed size with the original (with unedited data you'll get the same compressed size as the original, but of course with edited data all bets are off... you can check with something like recomp.exe title.bin titleC.bin 0 6 0).  If it ends up bigger, you'll want to track down the pointer so you can move the data somewhere else.

TheHarunate

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Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2019, 09:21:32 pm »
I looked over your document, most of your names are fairly unrelated to the source material. This website has almost everything: https://inari.aerdan.org//translations/secretofmana.html. It actually got me started on this whole project. Your spreadsheet totally reminded me that Square has been using "Moonring Blade" instead of Full Moon Ring for a while so that's definitely a change I'm willing to make, especially because it was the last 3-word item holdouts. "Frizbar" is gone and never coming back. It really goes against the spirit of the new localization.

I would loooove to implement "Lucre". "GP" just feels like such an old school holdout. However, there isn't space for it. If you look at the Status Screen or any of the shops, you'll see that there is no room for more than two characters. I have considered switching out "GP" for "LP" or "Lu" in shops, windows, and menus and referring to it as Lucre in dialogue.

When it comes to the unrelated names, I believe that's because I didn't like how the weapons were named in the original English translation. As a classic FF fan, I didn't like seeing Excalibur and Masamune as only mid-tier swords ever since the first time I played through SoM 15 years ago. Hence why I eventually came up with those name options that are sometimes unrelated to the source material (some of them were inspired from FF) - at least until I saw the Japanese version.

As for Frizbar... okay, "Battle Frisbee" is fine, too.

Space issues for Lucre? You can shorten it to "Lc".

Anyway, I just saw the site you linked. And... Moogle were "Mowgli"? (pfft) What is this? The Jungle Book?
Also, for Pure Land, are you going to name it "Mana Holyland" like in Seiken Densetsu 3? Or you wanna go for "Mana Sanctuary"?
"Boulders" are actually "Beholders"? Oh, man, I was mistaken after all these years playing Seiken Densetsu 3 and checking out SoM's 3D remake. :-[

Hiei-

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Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2019, 09:45:47 pm »
To date, Hiei- is the only person who has actually succeeded in editing the title tiles and he doesn't remember how he did it. If I could edit the tiles, I would turn them white and I would create a proper "2" tile. If anyone can point me in the right direction for getting in there and editing any/all of this, I would be happy to make new tiles. Possibly an entirely new logo out of them.

From what I said in PM :

For example, I found in my log the title has been moved in the expanded part of the rom (0x230000), so near the intro (which has also been moved in the expanded part of the rom (0x251000).

I guess we modified a pointer somewhere to redirect it to 0x230000.

We also found the tilemap and palette of the title screen, I'll have to dig my logs about that too.

I can confirm I used LunarCompress/Decompress as I double checked and I listed them on the translation staff.

LUNAR COMPRESS: FUSOYA[NewLine]
LUNAR DECOMPRESS: FUSOYA[NewLine]

(But only for the title screen, the intro was decompressed/recompressed with a LUA script made by BahaBulle).

You might want to contact him, he's also the one who did the modifications to reinsert the censored boss (he explained me how to do the search/tests, I did them and he made the modifications), but not sure if he still has the sources.

You just had to check this adress in the rom with a Tile Editor and you would have known easily if it was compressed or not. Then, you had to calculate the pointer of the adress 0x230000 and search where the pointer is in the rom and it would have gave you the original title screen adress.

To summary:

Compressed intro is at 0x251000 in my rom (I think I said it in PM). Original intro adresss seems to be x07B480 (from my logs)

Title screen is at 0x230000 in my rom. For the original adress, you can just search the pointer adress in my rom and you'll know where it is, but seems FuSoYa already gave the adress, 0x1CEA00.

« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 09:51:01 pm by Hiei- »

Vanya

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Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2019, 11:34:57 pm »
Anyway, I just saw the site you linked. And... Moogle were "Mowgli"? (pfft) What is this? The Jungle Book?

That is not a very good romanization of the word.

Mōguri is the purest way of representing it.

It's an odd portmanteau of the Japanese word for a type of mole (mogura) and bat (kōmori).

MOgura + koOHmori + moGUra + koohmoRI

WildWolf21

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Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2019, 12:53:38 am »
Quick Question: Recently, this patch was released that changed up how you acquired the level 9 weapon orbs:
https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4309/

So I was wondering if that patch is compatible with the relocalization patch you made, or if I’m just better off sticking to the FuSoYa VFW patch until you can get it working with it.

Timbo

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Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2019, 01:53:49 am »
Quick Question: Recently, this patch was released that changed up how you acquired the level 9 weapon orbs:
https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4309/

So I was wondering if that patch is compatible with the relocalization patch you made, or if I’m just better off sticking to the FuSoYa VFW patch until you can get it working with it.

It is totally compatible with the level 9 weapon hack. You can do my hack or Kethinov's in any order as long as FuSoYa's VWF comes first.

I'm currently working on a much bigger hack though that incorporates this hack and many others. This video showcases a couple of my own hacks.

https://youtu.be/KGUVce0c_2g

January 28, 2019, 02:53:28 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
When it comes to the unrelated names, I believe that's because I didn't like how the weapons were named in the original English translation. As a classic FF fan, I didn't like seeing Excalibur and Masamune as only mid-tier swords ever since the first time I played through SoM 15 years ago. Hence why I eventually came up with those name options that are sometimes unrelated to the source material (some of them were inspired from FF) - at least until I saw the Japanese version.

As for Frizbar... okay, "Battle Frisbee" is fine, too.

Space issues for Lucre? You can shorten it to "Lc".

Anyway, I just saw the site you linked. And... Moogle were "Mowgli"? (pfft) What is this? The Jungle Book?
Also, for Pure Land, are you going to name it "Mana Holyland" like in Seiken Densetsu 3? Or you wanna go for "Mana Sanctuary"?
"Boulders" are actually "Beholders"? Oh, man, I was mistaken after all these years playing Seiken Densetsu 3 and checking out SoM's 3D remake. :-[

If you download my patch, you can see most if not all of the changes I made to the game's nomenclature. I kept Pure Land. It gets the point across just as well as and is half as awkward as Mana Holy Land. I could be convinced to fiddle with it though if there were enough strong opinions.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 02:53:28 am by Timbo »

Vanya

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Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2019, 02:39:25 pm »
I dig Pure Land. It has a fairy-tale sort of vibe and that is what the Mana series was intended to be.

Timbo

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Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
« Reply #51 on: January 29, 2019, 02:57:12 pm »
I dig Pure Land. It has a fairy-tale sort of vibe and that is what the Mana series was intended to be.

I do too. It's over if those rare censorship moments that's also just great localization.

Kiyoshi Aman

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Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2019, 06:00:33 pm »
Anyway, I just saw the site you linked. And... Moogle were "Mowgli"? (pfft) What is this? The Jungle Book?

Hi.

I chose 'Mowgli' because 'Moglie' doesn't carry across the 'oh' sound and there isn't really anything better. I certainly wasn't going to defer to the official localization. I also don't really buy the portmanteau theory, since Japanese don't really do portmanteaus in that style; they prefer to instead take the first two morae of each word (e.g. Hagaren for Hagane no Renkinjutsushi).

Timbo

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Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2019, 04:43:55 pm »
So, the Lucre update is happening. There are a few places it needs to be abbreviated though to fit. The Status Screen, the Save Screen and the transactional window that's found at vendors or where you find money in prepositioned treasure boxes. In all of these windows the two letter abbreviation will be adjacent to the amount of money.

In a vanilla rom it looks like this:

28679GP

The abbreviation can only be 2 characters long. So, we're looking at these options: L, l, LC, Lc, lc, LU, Lu, or lu. This is what I can think of off the top of my head if anyone has a better suggestion, please speak up. I've included some examples below for visual reference:


  • 28679 L
  • 28679 l
  • 28679LC
  • 28679Lc
  • 28679lc
  • 28679LU
  • 28679Lu
  • 28679lu

Let me know what you think. I could use some feedback because it all just looks like compromise to me.

Special

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Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2019, 05:11:13 pm »
That's a toughy, I like LC or lc

vivify93

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Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
« Reply #55 on: January 30, 2019, 06:01:17 pm »
I like just "L". It reminds me of G from Chrono Trigger.
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Hiei-

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Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
« Reply #56 on: January 30, 2019, 07:09:08 pm »


I did like this, personally. Before, I was using "LC" in the menus and "lucs" in the texts.

Timbo

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Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
« Reply #57 on: January 30, 2019, 07:14:28 pm »


I did like this, personally. Before, I was using "LC" in the menus and "lucs" in the texts.

Ooooohhhh that's perty, I feel like Lucre could be condensed into 3 or squish tiles easily enough. FuSoYa's font doesn't appear as forgiving ss yours though.

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
« Reply #58 on: January 30, 2019, 07:44:31 pm »
I think just "L" is the only non-compromised abbreviation. It would also put a much needed space between numerals and the currency signifier. You could also potentially exercise artistic license and make a stylized L character (the way cents or dollar signs are effectively a letter c or S with a bar or two through it). Though for real world reference, the only currency that uses just an "L" seems to just go with an unstylized L. (https://www.xe.com/symbols.php)

Vanya

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Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2019, 06:15:36 am »
I like Lc the best, but just L is fine as long as that extra little gap between the Numbers and letter can be  maintained.


Hi.

I chose 'Mowgli' because 'Moglie' doesn't carry across the 'oh' sound and there isn't really anything better. I certainly wasn't going to defer to the official localization. I also don't really buy the portmanteau theory, since Japanese don't really do portmanteaus in that style; they prefer to instead take the first two morae of each word (e.g. Hagaren for Hagane no Renkinjutsushi).

Out of curiosity, do you have an alternative theory?
After all, just because it's not a common method of portmanteau doesn't mean they didn't do it that way.