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Author Topic: Zelda II Redux  (Read 45108 times)

ShadowOne333

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #240 on: September 10, 2018, 11:16:27 am »
ShadowOne, you can indeed reinstate the lost dialog with the sideview editor.

The only limitation, however, is that you need to change one of the other "enemies" in that scene to take over the role of the lost dialog trigger. Enemies in towns are everything from bats to people to signs. I haven't figured out a way to make the editor append enemies to scenes without causing errors. I've tried other editors to see what they've done, but none have been able to do it without errors! So what we're going to do here is change the random townsfolk generator in this scene. (Who cares if random people don't spawn right away when you enter from the left).

So here's what I've done, and you can do the same:

1. Load up the sideview editor and go to scene 7 of town set A in west hyrule.
2. Click the "Edit Enemies" radiobutton at the bottom of the editor.
3. Click the enemy that generates random townsfolk, and move it to the crosses.
4. Change it to be an invisible dialog starter by clicking on the icon next to the sleeping blob option.
5. Save!



Each "enemy" that you see listed in the editor, from the sleeping bat to the random townsfolk, are dialog triggers. The current town id dictates what each one will say.

#00 - sleeping bat
#01 - sleeping blob
#02 - first invisible dialog. The enemy that had this id was removed from the Saria town graveyard in the US release. It triggers dialog number 31 (1F in hex). If you want to get fancy, you can change which dialog it points to by right-clicking it, but I don't think you'll need to do that.

And I see you already reinstated the original text :) Here's how it is when I test it out.



AH!
So I was on the right track!
I simply couldn't make much sense of the editor as to why it didn't let me input a new message window, now I see that it was because I had to rework an existing one into the new one. Thanks for this!
I will implement it asap :)

Btw, how does it work that I don't need to change the First/Second Dialog that the Invisible Dialog starter does?
I just checked it and it does load the proper text, but without changing anything related to that?
Just wondering how it works :P

The "22222" dialog is actually ".....", and it's what the sleeping Ache in Nabooru says three times before telling you about a Heart Container at the fourth attempt.
Oh you're correct.
I got confused. The "22222" dialogue I did translate it as "....." in Redux.
What I was actually referring to is an unknown/empty pointer to [A7 53] located at 0xF00C ($AFFC).
This is the actual pointer to the Loto reference, which seems to go unused (I think?).
Is dialogue #31 (or 1F in hex as @njosro pointed out), I found that out when repointing and re-writing the whole script some weeks back :)



Here's the updated IPS with the now restored Dragon Quest/Loto reference thanks to njosro!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

As always, let me know if you guys find anything out of place or something :P
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 12:27:17 pm by ShadowOne333 »

Chicken Knife

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #241 on: September 10, 2018, 12:23:56 pm »
Restored Dragon Quest reference..

You guys sure know how to get me to play through this again. :beer:


mariosmentor

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #242 on: September 12, 2018, 11:27:55 am »
Nice! Although you might want to know that DQ games don't use the name Loto anymore (at least in America, anyway). Nowadays, Square Enix localizes it as Erdrick.

https://youtu.be/BmEhsRlmcD4?list=PLJvt28QwCzbs_G8BTV-aJtHZmXeYZxO2o&t=30

But, that's just nitpicking, at best.

ShadowOne333

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #243 on: September 12, 2018, 05:37:05 pm »
Yeah I did think about that when making the line.
I am unsure yet if I should continue with Loto or Erdrick.
I'll see what I end up doing, given how this will be played in US releases perhaps I'll go for Erdrick instead, but we'll see.

I haven't touched anything related to this hack lately, but next on the list I think should be either trying to restore the water animated tiles or attempting to make a "PAUSE" message on pause on the Overworld.
I read something about changing the mapper to the ROM itself to make use of VRAM for the animated tiles, but I am not sure how feasible or if this is even true at all.

As far as I know, the water tiles should be doable with the current mapper of Zelda 2, since I believe Shadow of Night does this as well without changing mappers (unless I am wrong).
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 06:52:32 pm by ShadowOne333 »

Prince Valmont

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #244 on: September 12, 2018, 05:40:04 pm »
Yeah I did think about that when making the line.
I am unsure yet if I should continue with Loto or Erdrick.
I'll see what I end up doing, given how this will be played in US releases perhaps I'll go for Erdrick instead, but we'll see.

Since even newer DQ games refer to the hero as Erdrick, I would vote for that too.

lexluthermiester

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #245 on: September 12, 2018, 05:56:16 pm »
Since even newer DQ games refer to the hero as Erdrick, I would vote for that too.
Same here.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 07:44:29 pm by lexluthermiester »

Shadic

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #246 on: September 12, 2018, 06:57:18 pm »
I agree with Erdrick.

Chicken Knife

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #247 on: September 12, 2018, 11:54:18 pm »
Never liked Erdrick, or the forced sounding medieval language we got in general. Doesn't jive with the spirit of DQ for me.

lexluthermiester

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #248 on: September 13, 2018, 07:46:25 pm »
Never liked Erdrick, or the forced sounding medieval language we got in general. Doesn't jive with the spirit of DQ for me.
I loved it! A serious part of what made the atmosphere of the game so charming.

Chicken Knife

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #249 on: September 13, 2018, 07:59:00 pm »
Yeah, I've heard that feedback from a ton of people and I'm sure that's why they reverted back with mobile releases after they went my way with the GB versions. Ok, no more arguments from me about Dragon Quest on a Zelda thread. I have a Dragon Quest project thread for that  :laugh:

njosro

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #250 on: September 19, 2018, 03:58:52 pm »
AH!
So I was on the right track!
I simply couldn't make much sense of the editor as to why it didn't let me input a new message window, now I see that it was because I had to rework an existing one into the new one. Thanks for this!
I will implement it asap :)

You're welcome! Yeah, the dialog system is a bit strange if you've never been exposed to it before. The sideview editor only lets you change the dialog starter's pointer. You need the dialog editor (or a hex editor, as you did it) to change the actual text.

Btw, how does it work that I don't need to change the First/Second Dialog that the Invisible Dialog starter does?
I just checked it and it does load the proper text, but without changing anything related to that?
Just wondering how it works :P

Good question.
Short answer: The dialog starter was already set up to point to the special text, but was removed from Saria town in the US release.

Long answer: If you want to see the correct values for dialog starters in the editor, you need to change the "test ofs" (test offset) setting located at the top-right of the editor. For Saria town this would be a value of 2. It's dumb that you need to do this, I know, but I never got around to doing anything about it. I think I will now! When you right-click a dialog starter and choose to change its dialog, I'm going to make it ask for a town number.

Some explaining:
If the game is in Town Set A, then the dialog starters pull from the Town Set A primary dialog index table (E248 in PC ROM). Likewise for Town Set B. (The dialog starters pull from secondary index table if certain conditions are met.) In the original game, they made all the towns in West Hyrule use Town Set A, and all the towns in East Hyrule use Town Set B.
The town index tells the dialog starters which column of the dialog index table to use.

For example, let's find out which dialog the wise man uses in the town of Ruto.
Ruto is designated as being part of town set A, so we look at the Town Set A primary dialog index table (E248 in PC ROM). Each row in this table has 4 entries; one for each town in the town set.
"Wise Man" is the 5th dialog starter after the sleeping bat, so we jump ahead 5 rows. (E248 + (4*5) = E25C).
Ruto is town 1 in town set A (Rauru is town 0), so we move ahead 1 column. (E25C + 1 = E25D).
At E25D, we find this value: 18
18 in decimal is 24. If we look up the dialog pointer at index 24, we find that it points to this text: "WITH THIS YOU CAN JUMP VERY HIGH."

The sideview editor does all these calculations automatically when you are prompted to change the dialog index.

For reference:
TOWN        SET   OFFSET
Rauru       A     0
Ruto        A     1
Saria       A     2
Mido        A     3
Nabooru     B     0
Darunia     B     1
New Kasuto  B     2
Old Kasuto  B     3

ShadowOne333

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #251 on: September 19, 2018, 05:17:28 pm »
So the software itself calculates the intended dialogue starter by itself according to the data you mention.
Quite interesting :)
Congrats on making all for the Side View Editor, njosro, it's quite an accomplishment!
You helped to restore one of the things which were completely out my reach :P
Thanks!


Now only the Water Tiles Animation and perhaps the PAUSE message on the overworld are missing to make a full release of the hack :)
If someone has any insights of info that might help with those two, please let me know!

Shade Aurion

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #252 on: October 20, 2018, 03:55:37 pm »
It might be worth contacting other Zelda 2 hackers directly for that one.
It might also be worth working with Trax on his Zelda 2 extension project ^_^

I'm sure you already considered the former so this is more to bump this project back to the first page but still, if animating water tiles is all that is left, keeping this front page might see this project to completion. It might also be worth making compatibility with retroachievements https://retroachievements.org/ <3

Also, really enjoying your localization/title screen hack for Castlevania 3 atm. Running it with Dragonsbrethren's bugfixes and NaOH's improved controls and it's very enjoyable and so far all hacks are fully compatible. I wonder how many of your hacks i'll end up using XD
(here's the playlist if you wanna see me rage at how much harder 3 is then 1 or 2 lmao - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IACiJulsjO0&list=PLVFlHPy0Pa9uNjvijOXkdmM0_LXRD4KK3 )

dACE

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #253 on: October 20, 2018, 05:47:39 pm »
...keeping this front page might see this project to completion.

Soooooo... you are helping.... by bumping this thread.... so others (with skills) can see it.... and help?


EDIT: Just realized - I'm helping too because i bumped the thread :-)

/dACE
« Last Edit: October 20, 2018, 05:53:03 pm by dACE »

Shade Aurion

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #254 on: October 21, 2018, 03:09:02 pm »
Umm, yeah? It's been a month since the last post, this hack is nearing completion and ShadowOne333 is seeking help specifically with animating tiles.. >_>

ShadowOne333

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #255 on: October 21, 2018, 03:12:43 pm »
What the heck just happened here? Lol

But yeah, basically what's left to be done is just the animates water tiles as priority.
The PAUSE message on Overworld could be a nice bonus, but optional.

Once the water tiles animation is done, it should be ready for a proper release

Shade Aurion

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #256 on: October 21, 2018, 03:25:45 pm »
lol I don't even know dude. Again it might be worth tracking down specific Zelda 2 hackers and seeing if they can help. Trax, Revility, etc might be able to help you out. I'm sure its something really simple too.

ShadowOne333

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #257 on: October 24, 2018, 10:35:04 am »
I already sent some PMs, I'm holding off to see if someone can help with those :P

Trax

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #258 on: October 24, 2018, 08:42:58 pm »
You can stop holding your breath, guys, I took a look at Shadow of Night, and I saw how it is done. Clever hack, but not the most efficient. The game simply toggles between various CHR banks with the animated tiles that change every bank. The original Zelda II ROM has 14 CHR banks. The last one is just empty, so you can say it's free to use. Expanded to 16 banks, the 3 extra banks are used to store the different tiles to be animated on the Overworld. The code that does the swap is very simple.

ShadowOne333

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #259 on: October 24, 2018, 09:13:35 pm »
You can stop holding your breath, guys, I took a look at Shadow of Night, and I saw how it is done. Clever hack, but not the most efficient. The game simply toggles between various CHR banks with the animated tiles that change every bank. The original Zelda II ROM has 14 CHR banks. The last one is just empty, so you can say it's free to use. Expanded to 16 banks, the 3 extra banks are used to store the different tiles to be animated on the Overworld. The code that does the swap is very simple.
Interesting.
So it is changing banks after all.
With that said, then using the last unused bank for the animated tiles, and adding the code, should make the desired effect?