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Author Topic: RIP Virtual Console.  (Read 1256 times)


Isao Kronos

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Re: RIP Virtual Console.
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2018, 11:52:43 am »
“no plans to bring classic games together under the Virtual Console banner as has been done on other Nintendo systems.” does not mean no classic games whatsoever

Chronosplit

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Re: RIP Virtual Console.
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2018, 12:04:50 pm »
“no plans to bring classic games together under the Virtual Console banner as has been done on other Nintendo systems.” does not mean no classic games whatsoever
There was some talk about a subscription system for an amount of games, that's about it.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 01:26:01 am by Chronosplit »

FAST6191

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Re: RIP Virtual Console.
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2018, 12:15:32 pm »
Fortunately it sounds like there is some nice homebrew in the works that will render that largely a moot issue if so.

A.D.R.I.A.N

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Re: RIP Virtual Console.
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2018, 07:46:52 pm »
Meh. I'll just install RetroArch on my switch.
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SleepyFist

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Re: RIP Virtual Console.
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2018, 08:27:50 am »
RIP Virtual Console, does this mean that they're finally going to be putting more effort into reviving old franchises with new titles than re re re selling the old ones? Of course not. >:D

Like A.D.R.I.A.N I'll probably just install emulators on the Switch just like I did to my 3DS.
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RetroGameFan

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Re: RIP Virtual Console.
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2018, 10:36:42 am »
RIP Virtual Console, does this mean that they're finally going to be putting more effort into reviving old franchises with new titles than re re re selling the old ones? Of course not. >:D
By "reviving old franchises with new titles", do you mean making new titles for past consoles such as the NES, Super NES, etc.? Sounds like a great idea! I bet a lot of people would buy retro games for retro consoles. I think classic video games and video game consoles are timeless! :)

FAST6191

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Re: RIP Virtual Console.
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2018, 05:29:57 pm »
By "reviving old franchises with new titles", do you mean making new titles for past consoles such as the NES, Super NES, etc.? Sounds like a great idea! I bet a lot of people would buy retro games for retro consoles. I think classic video games and video game consoles are timeless! :)

So they are going to spend time and effort finding devs that nobody other than people on sites like these code for (vs some just graduated dev that knows some C++), and then hard to make (or at least 50 times more annoying than pressing a disc), for outdated hardware that they don't sell any more when instead they could get said new dev to fart out a "throwback" title on a machine they are actively selling and always in need of games for?

RetroGameFan

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Re: RIP Virtual Console.
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2018, 06:39:08 pm »
So they are going to spend time and effort finding devs that nobody other than people on sites like these code for (vs some just graduated dev that knows some C++), and then hard to make (or at least 50 times more annoying than pressing a disc), for outdated hardware that they don't sell any more when instead they could get said new dev to fart out a "throwback" title on a machine they are actively selling and always in need of games for?
I'm not going to argue after this post, so that the thread runs its course, but I would like to point out some facts. I'm pretty sure that assembly code is relatively, if not, very easy to learn for a programmer, so I'm sure that it wouldn't be that much of a hassle to train a skilled programmer in assembly code and have him program a new NES title, for instance. And in this entire world of billions of people, there's got to be a lot of people who are capable of coding in assembly code. As for calling something related to video games "outdated", I think that's a matter of opinion, not of fact.

Jesus, there are a lot of naysayers out there who think they know everything about what will work and what will not, when, in fact, they don't. No offense intended.

That being said, I stand by my belief that making new games for older formats can be highly successful with the right ideas and technology behind it.

I'm done here, and I will conclude my activity in this thread by saying, to get back on topic, that I am quite neutral on the issue of the discontinuation of the Virtual Console. After all, who needs it when there is a whole world of emulators and ROMs to explore. And emulators are beneficial for having save-states, which means if you make a mistake in playing a game, you can go back to a previous state and try again. That's why I prefer mainstream emulation over the Virtual Console. :)

Jorpho

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Re: RIP Virtual Console.
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2018, 11:14:21 pm »
I'm sure that it wouldn't be that much of a hassle to train a skilled programmer in assembly code and have him program a new NES title, for instance. And in this entire world of billions of people, there's got to be a lot of people who are capable of coding in assembly code.
If it was really that easy, there would be no shortage of people happily doing it for free in their spare time.  As it is, there haven't exactly been a lot of commercial-quality from-scratch NES homebrew titles.

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And emulators are beneficial for having save-states, which means if you make a mistake in playing a game, you can go back to a previous state and try again. That's why I prefer mainstream emulation over the Virtual Console. :)
That feature is already available in the Virtual Console.  (Granted, you're typically limited to just one save state.)

I might ponder whether Nintendo's decision might have been influenced by the release of the Disney Afternoon Collection, which does indeed have a much richer variety of features compared to the Virtual Console, despite just being emulation.
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KingMike

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Re: RIP Virtual Console.
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2018, 12:30:59 am »
I'm not going to argue after this post, so that the thread runs its course, but I would like to point out some facts. I'm pretty sure that assembly code is relatively, if not, very easy to learn for a programmer,

6502 ASM might be relatively simple, but not too a newcomer.

That is, someone who is introduced to C and can type "printf("Hello World!");" and see results might not be as able to learn that on the NES, to get anything on the screen, you need to:
- insert a CHR ROM with a font (easier) or embed the font in the PRG-ROM and write it to VRAM
- initialize the stack, RAM and at least the PPU registers
- initialize the nametable (so you don't get garbage)
- initialize the palette
- and then finally write a routine to copy the string to the appropriate place on the nametable
All of this of course would need to already know ASM.
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Psyklax

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Re: RIP Virtual Console.
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2018, 07:50:27 am »
Woah, dude, chill. What FAST6191 said is right: it's all about the bottom line.

Imagine you're a video games company for a second. You want to release a retro game, and you have two choices. You release it to be compatible with original NES and SNES hardware, or you release it for Steam, PlayStation, Xbox, Switch, 3DS.

For the first option, you have to pay a hefty amount on producing cartridges, since chips do cost money, but even to do that, you might need to get a factory to produce the chips especially, unless you can get a third party manufacturer or off-the-shelf parts. Either way, your company is not set up for this, so the initial costs will be substantial.

You also need programmers familiar with the assembly for that particular machine. Sure, there are hobbyists out there who could do it, but usually they do it as a hobby, not a full-time job, and your existing personnel would probably baulk at the idea they need to learn a new way of programming just for this game.

Finally, the end user. There are plenty of systems in the wild, but they are not actively supported, so the majority of users are the kind of people who populate forums like this - people like you and me, basically. It may feel like there are plenty of people like you out there, but trust me: the numbers ain't on our side. Just check out the numbers of viewers on Twitch for modern vs retro games.

Also, most of the core audience would look at your cartridge and think "how much?! I'll just get a ROM instead". I could be wrong about this, but still... ;)

Now, the second route. You make it look just like a SNES or NES game, but get your existing devs to make it in a language they're experts in. You aren't restricted by the limitations of old hardware. You have an install base of anyone with either a PC or modern console - that is, literally everyone. You don't need to get into manufacturing cartridges, especially since your company probably doesn't manufacture anything anyway. The cost to the user is about four to five times less, simply because there's no cartridge. You can sell all over the world via a download, without worrying about postage problems.

Faced with these two options, there really isn't a choice at all. I know you would love to see brand new games made for old consoles on cartridge - I'm sure a lot of us here would like the novelty factor of it. But business is business.

Now Kickstarter, on the other hand... ;)

Jorpho

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Re: RIP Virtual Console.
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2018, 09:19:39 am »
To be fair, Capcom is doing a limited re-release of Mega Man 2 and Mega Man X.
https://gonintendo.com/stories/308161-mega-man-2-and-mega-man-x-to-be-re-released-on-cartridges

But in that case I think it's more about advertising and getting people's attention than it is about turning a significant profit.
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tc

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Re: RIP Virtual Console.
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2018, 11:24:31 am »
A spotty release schedule and lackluster 3rd party support were nails in the coffin.

3DS has Sega's cool 3D classics, but the library doesn't begin to hold up to Wii VC. And some ended up Japan only.
Wii U never got a Genesis line.

Square-Enix similarly refused to support 3DS VC outside Japan.

Psyklax

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Re: RIP Virtual Console.
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2018, 04:56:55 pm »
To be fair, Capcom is doing a limited re-release of Mega Man 2 and Mega Man X.
https://gonintendo.com/stories/308161-mega-man-2-and-mega-man-x-to-be-re-released-on-cartridges

But in that case I think it's more about advertising and getting people's attention than it is about turning a significant profit.

I anticipated this response. :) They also authorised the re-release of Street Fighter II on the SNES. Thing is, that article suggests it's Capcom doing the work, whereas if you look in the picture, you'll see iam8bit, which is the company handling it. Clearly they went to Capcom and said "hey, can we release a 30 year old game of yours if we pay you?" and Capcom said "sure, fill yer boots". It's a no-brainer for Capcom, so it's completely different from creating a new game from scratch and fronting the cost of producing cartridges. Iam8bit has clearly found a niche (note limited edition of 8500).

EDIT: following the link, it says "Manufacturing by Retrotainment Games + Infinite NES Lives". So clearly Capcom has absolutely nothing to do with this, besides selling the licence to do it.

Jorpho

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Re: RIP Virtual Console.
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2018, 08:32:20 pm »
I anticipated this response. :) They also authorised the re-release of Street Fighter II on the SNES. Thing is, that article suggests it's Capcom doing the work, whereas if you look in the picture, you'll see iam8bit, which is the company handling it. Clearly they went to Capcom and said "hey, can we release a 30 year old game of yours if we pay you?" and Capcom said "sure, fill yer boots". It's a no-brainer for Capcom, so it's completely different from creating a new game from scratch and fronting the cost of producing cartridges. Iam8bit has clearly found a niche (note limited edition of 8500).

EDIT: following the link, it says "Manufacturing by Retrotainment Games + Infinite NES Lives". So clearly Capcom has absolutely nothing to do with this, besides selling the licence to do it.
I missed the bit about SFII.

I would expect that Capcom surely appreciates the advertising – otherwise, why wouldn't they just go ahead and license the use of the whole Capcom back catalogue?
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KingMike

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Re: RIP Virtual Console.
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2018, 11:10:17 pm »
Square-Enix similarly refused to support 3DS VC outside Japan.

I recall Square-Enix released fairly little on 3DS outside Japan, VC or otherwise.
I think they did physical releases the first year or so but otherwise I think just Theaterythm (or however it's spelled). I know the Dragon Quest remakes and Bravely Default games got released, but I think those were licensed to Nintendo? Okay, Final Fantasy Explorers made it out a couple years after the Japanese release (long enough that it was long after I had imported a JP copy).
They also didn't localize the eShop version of Final Fantasy 1, which would've seemed like a no-brainer considering they were releasing FF ports on almost everything else.

I though that had a fair amount more JP native 3DS games.
I at least recall there some anime-based catch-em-all RPG I only got when one site promoted it as being removed from eShop. (though did Square-Enix routinely pull digital release of physical games on eShop? I recall after getting a JP 3DS, I considered downloading a Puzzle Bobble game but I can't remember if it was completely pulled or just merely very overpriced. I mean, like full original retail for a game that was several years old and cheaper to buy JP physical, and almost nothing for its US counterpart. I know Sega pulled the digital releases of earlier Puyo-Puyo games almost certainly to push the newer ones.)
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Spooniest

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Re: RIP Virtual Console.
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2018, 01:55:25 am »
Classic gaming renaissance, yeh? Hm

I'd forgotten about this due to recent insanity. Yeh well, it creeps me out too you know.

Resting up, trying to clear my head out. Taking breaks from writing and trying to come up with plans (when you're no good at that particular thing) in order to 'let it cook' as my writing teachers used to tell me, can be really difficult if you find yourself a little under the wire, but the quality of work suffers if you don't do it.

Perhaps rashly charging forward and treating life as 24 hour crunch isn't quite the healthiest way to live, and perhaps releasing a zillion new NES / SNES games or updates to older games or other such things, all at once, is not the best way to go about it.

Things are kind of fast paced enough in this world, if you were to ask me...