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Author Topic: Switching back and forth between graphic editors. Good idea? Bad idea?  (Read 557 times)

NERV Agent

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I mention this in a lot of my posts that I prefer using Tile Molester for graphics editing, mainly because it can handle PSX graphics.

However, it's been my experience that Tile Molester' usage is unintuitive compared to your standard graphics editor. Using Tile Molester is as awkward as having the next door neighbor who just moved in knock on my door to obligatorily tell me that they are a registered child molester. Oh! I see what SnowBro did there!

I am editing ".TIM" files with that weird CLUT format that has 16 separate palettes, each one being 16 colors. So the image I will be working with will be an indexed 16 color palette image.

I was planning to load the ".TIM" with the correct palette loaded into Tile Molester, and use "Edit -> Copy To" to export the image into a ".png" file, perform my edits to that ".png" file with Jasc Paint Shop Pro 9, then go back into Tile Molester and use "Edit -> Paste From" to reinsert the edited ".png" file back into the ".TIM" file.

But I noticed an inconsistency.

The image I am working with is 16 color.

The ".png" file that Tile Molester exports is 16 million colors.

Because of this inconsistency, would switching back and forth between Tile Molester and Jasc Paint Shop Pro inadvertently impact the image data I am working with? Would it screw up the color indexes or the palette itself, since I'm going from 16 colors to 16 million colors and reinserting it back into the ".TIM"? Could it also affect pixel data resulting in some objects becoming deformed from what they once were?
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Mugi

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Re: Switching back and forth between graphic editors. Good idea? Bad idea?
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2018, 03:43:49 am »
in theory it should not, (especially since you are using a png, which is lossless) but i guess it really depends on how the involved programs do the conversions etc.

i do this a lot with 16color images (different software though) and atleast i never noticed any form of degradation.
when you convert a 16color image to direct color, it will still be 16 colors, it just CAN now use more.
of course, if you make the image use more than 16 colors as a png, then convert it back to 16, the original palette might suffer as a result, but as long as you strictly keep it at 16 you should be fine.
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weissvulf

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Re: Switching back and forth between graphic editors. Good idea? Bad idea?
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2018, 05:32:54 am »
Some variables could could go wrong there. Often converting to true-color and then back to 4bit will reorder the palette and thus change the image data. In other words, if black=00 and white=01 originally, after the conversion the editor may have changed it to white=00, black=01. The image will look identical, until it switches to one of the other CLUTs that expect the image data to be using the original palette order. The best bet is to just try it and see what happens.

Are you editing the CLUTs or just the image?

NERV Agent

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Re: Switching back and forth between graphic editors. Good idea? Bad idea?
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2018, 08:09:18 am »
I've already edited the CLUT to my liking. Now I am just editing the image.
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weissvulf

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Re: Switching back and forth between graphic editors. Good idea? Bad idea?
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2018, 04:50:55 pm »
I think that simplifies things. Like Mugi said, going 16 to true=color should be lossless for the image. As you edit the true color version though, PSP won't limit you to the original 16 colors so you're likely to end up with more colors due to blending etc.

One possible way around this is to import a copy of the original 16 color palette into PSP (Image > Palette > Load Palette) before you start editing. If you do that, PSP should lock you into only using the 16 colors available and maintain the palette order. Save as a 16 color PNG. Assuming TileMolestor will import 16 color PNGs, you should end up with no problems whatsoever.

Mugi

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Re: Switching back and forth between graphic editors. Good idea? Bad idea?
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2018, 05:34:57 pm »
above works, or since (as my experience has taught me) PSP is a piece of  :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: with indexed png's, just load your true color png into PSP, reduce it's colors back to 16 before editing it (since it still only contais 16 colors, this should also be lossless for the image) and just save it as a bmp instead.

i know PSP "technically" supports 16color pngs and whatnots, but in reality.. i wouldn't go there unless absolutely forced to.
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Nocturnesthesia

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I go between Photoshop, GraphicsGale and YY-Chr. A tad inconvenient but effective. I'm sure there must be a way to just use Photoshop but I'm only now starting to dabble in SNES and GB graphic design.