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Author Topic: Mega Maker (Mega Man Maker) released!  (Read 2760 times)

MagusLOGS

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Mega Maker (Mega Man Maker) released!
« on: July 10, 2017, 10:58:34 pm »
Mega Maker is what the name says a Mega Man Fan Game similar to Super Mario Maker or Super Mario Bros X which lets you create and share Levels.
It looks very promising, i am sure it will be successful if Capcom doesn't takes it down which they probably will. The release is only few days away.

edit: Mega Maker has been released!

https://mega-maker.com :woot!:
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 07:19:53 am by MagusLOGS »

SleepyFist

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Re: Mega Maker (Mega Man Maker) to be released soon!
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2017, 09:53:20 pm »
Sounds pretty cool, you can count me in, haven't played a game like this since N+


Picking it up now, any idea how moddable the game mechanics are? I'd like to maybe get custom weapons in here eventually.

July 15, 2017, 02:37:34 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Tutorial level is done, it is as aesthetically pleasing as it is broken, should be able to polish better now that the Doctors have relinquished the test option.

« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 02:37:34 pm by SleepyFist »
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SleepyFist

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Re: Mega Maker (Mega Man Maker) released!
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2017, 06:30:24 pm »
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7xxsv60r0w043jy/Heat%20Man%20-%20Remixed.mmlv?dl=0



Here's a small chunk of the beginning of a level I'm working on and I'm looking for some feedback, this was initially supposed to just be a modified ver of the Heat Man stage, but limited tile options have changed the design a lot,
I'm also trying to make multiple pathways to accommodate different difficulties and play styles
(Top - Hard: Platforming and Dodging, Middle - Normal: Balanced Style, Low Path - Slightly Harder:Run and Gun Focus)

Right now the bottom path is cutoff until I finish the Top and Middle Paths, I'm also not using any spikes or any intentional bottomless pits because I don't want to subject players to too much fake difficulty.

So far I've just finished the intro, and the start of the modified Heat Man portion.
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thepatrickinator

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Re: Mega Maker (Mega Man Maker) released!
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2017, 06:39:53 pm »
So Mega Maker(Mega Man Maker) is the Mega Manified version of Super Mario Maker.

SleepyFist

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Re: Mega Maker (Mega Man Maker) released!
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2017, 06:59:42 pm »
Yep, pretty much, right now It's missing a lot of assets and the tiling feature is annoyingly uncooperative but it's been pretty good so far, I'm hoping for better stuff to work with as it gets updated.
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MagusLOGS

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Re: Mega Maker (Mega Man Maker) released!
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2017, 09:32:55 am »
Assets, Weapons and Robot Masters are definitely missing but i am sure they will add more content with upcoming updates. The Mega Maker is good for quickly creating Levels and instantly play testing them and the feature to share the user created content in-game without browsing and downloading the content from Websites.

What i would like to see is changing the AI of the Robot Masters because the standard AI pattern is getting boring after a while. ROM Hacking may not have the best Level editors but you get more freedom of changing a Game with ASM Hacking. I've played a Mega Man 5 Hack (Mega Man V: Second Strike) which has a new AI pattern and its much better and more challenging than the original AI pattern, stuff like this makes the Game refreshing, this is why ROM Hacking is still a viable option.

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Re: Mega Maker (Mega Man Maker) released!
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2017, 10:06:04 am »
Someone should tell Ross about this game, so he can make more evil levels for Arin and Dan to go insane on. :laugh:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7xxsv60r0w043jy/Heat%20Man%20-%20Remixed.mmlv?dl=0

That's a cool level that you made SleepyFist, you did a great job on it.

SleepyFist

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Re: Mega Maker (Mega Man Maker) released!
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2017, 12:19:24 pm »
Thanks! I'm glad it you liked it, I'll bring it back once I've finished. :thumbsup:
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Lenophis

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Re: Mega Maker (Mega Man Maker) released!
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2017, 01:16:46 pm »


Have at it, and let me know how bad it is.


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SleepyFist

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Re: Mega Maker (Mega Man Maker) released!
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2017, 08:10:42 pm »
Have at it, and let me know how bad it is.

License to nitpick accepted! Let me just post some screenshots...

Spoiler:
Starting at the beginning, this guy up here is completely ineffectual, you should move him somewhere else, as it is, he just drops into the pit and poses no threat, I do like how you have just enough time to kill that bot and get off the platforms before they go though.

Spoiler:
This platform kinda sucks, these spikes are also harmless unless you put something here to trick the player into jumping on them.

Spoiler:
This room is just a clusterfuck of instant death and stun-locking, it sucks hard and you should redo it, I am also aware that you can use the kick to get over, which brings me to the next pic.

Spoiler:
When the player lands on this platform using the kick attack, they get attacked by several enemies at once, this will most likely lead to cheap deaths as they careen over the edge trying to defend themselves until they learn to swap back to M.Buster quickly to dispatch them, easily fixed by redoing the layout of the previous bit.

Spoiler:
This guy up here, his placement is kinda bad, there's also a 50/50 chance of him offscreening himself if he goes the other direction, making him pretty much harmless.

Spoiler:
This one here (whatever it is), is in a bad position, its quite easy to blow it to hell before it can even launch an attack, you need to put it somewhere where it's harder to hit.

Spoiler:
At first I thought this was too hard, and then I realized I have the wide-range buster-charge making these trivial to get to, you should make players work for these kinds of pickups by putting them somewhere that requires skill or risk to reach.

Spoiler:
Last picture, the placement here is bad because it's too easy to knock a player into instant death here, giving the player more room to dodge might make this more fair, it's also painful to die right here inches from the checkpoint.

I also thought the boss arena was pretty bland compared to the rest of your level, the boss was also tough to beat with only the M.Buster



Heat Man's original layout is kinda lame when you look at it all laid out like this.
http://www.nesmaps.com/maps/MegaMan2/MegaMan2HeatManMap.html

« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 10:39:27 pm by SleepyFist »
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Lenophis

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Re: Mega Maker (Mega Man Maker) released!
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2017, 02:53:06 am »
Starting at the beginning, this guy up here is completely ineffectual, you should move him somewhere else, as it is, he just drops into the pit and poses no threat, I do like how you have just enough time to kill that bot and get off the platforms before they go though.
He's mostly useless, but not entirely. Most players will try and get their bearings, and will likely wait, or if they're impatient jump and get hit to their doom.

Quote
This platform kinda sucks, these spikes are also harmless unless you put something here to trick the player into jumping on them.
Actually, the spikes are a prevention method to keep players from jumping down and meeting their doom in the clusterfuck. Could've just made the whole thing solid, but it looked kinda bland.

Quote
This room is just a clusterfuck of instant death and stun-locking, it sucks hard and you should redo it, I am also aware that you can use the kick to get over, which brings me to the next pic.
It only appears overwhelming at first. Granted, it's not the best design, but I felt like keeping the player on their toes. I've been too nice of a designer laterly!  :crazy:

Quote
When the player lands on this platform using the kick attack, they get attacked by several enemies at once, this will most likely lead to cheap deaths as they careen over the edge trying to defend themselves until they learn to swap back to M.Buster quickly to dispatch them, easily fixed by redoing the layout of the previous bit.
Potentially, yes. That Metool is far more dangerous alive than dead, though!

Quote
This guy up here, his placement is kinda bad, there's also a 50/50 chance of him offscreening himself if he goes the other direction, making him pretty much harmless.
I tried tweaking that a bit, but in the end I wanted to go with another enemy altogether and forgot about it.

Quote
This one here (whatever it is), is in a bad position, its quite easy to blow it to hell before it can even launch an attack, you need to put it somewhere where it's harder to hit.
That turret is generally kinda easy to kill no matter where it's positioned. Anyone with quick enough fingers can mash it to death before it hits you.

Quote
At first I thought this was too hard, and then I realized I have the wide-range buster-charge making these trivial to get to, you should make players work for these kinds of pickups by putting them somewhere that requires skill or risk to reach.
Super easy with charge, and if a player tries to charge a shot. Some will, some won't. You will take damage by dropping down, otherwise. I've noticed that lives are completely useless, as well! E-tanks are...not really needed?

Quote
Last picture, the placement here is bad because it's too easy to knock a player into instant death here, giving the player more room to dodge might make this more fair, it's also painful to die right here inches from the checkpoint.
That's the main reason I went with a delayed platform, and not one that will quickly kill the player. Best setup? No, clearly. But I tried to be as fair as possible.

Quote
I also thought the boss arena was pretty bland compared to the rest of your level, the boss was also tough to beat with only the M.Buster
I tried changing it up, but Plantman's AI breaks horribly with any kinds of obstacles. A new boss entirely would be needed. And yeah, regular shots are terrible. Charged shots are much better, but still not the fastest.

Thanks for the review. The first level is always the hardest one to do. Should get better from here.


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pianohombre

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Re: Mega Maker (Mega Man Maker) released!
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2017, 05:57:13 am »
This program has a new update almost everyday. The downloader is a bit frustrating. It asks me if I'd like to upgrade, then just closes the window without doing anything. Fortunately, they use the registry or something because I can just unzip the new version, unpack it, delete the old folder, and all the levels I've downloaded are still there.
One small step for man,
one giant leap for mankind. -Neil Armstrong

SleepyFist

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Re: Mega Maker (Mega Man Maker) released!
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2017, 08:13:18 am »
 
Fortunately, they use the registry or something because I can just unzip the new version, unpack it, delete the old folder, and all the levels I've downloaded are still there.

All your settings and saves are stored in *user*/AppData/Local/MegaMaker, useful if you want to show off unfinished levels you don't want to upload.

Thanks for the review. The first level is always the hardest one to do. Should get better from here.

You're welcome. :thumbsup:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/fcpfvtcrtxxladm/Heat%20Man%20remix%20-%20Electrical%20fire.mmlv?dl=0



Heatman Remix v2, still far from finished, you'll probably need the M.Beam to cross some unfinished areas so don't go crazy with it, you can now reach the point where the Robot Master's room will be.

Speaking of RMs, I just realized a bit ago that there doesn't seem to be a single fire-based one on the roster. :banghead:
Just gonna have to make do with a different one unless an update adds the RM I need.

MegaMaker is also starting to show cracks, the level lags badly when I play it, I think this might be down to the engine not culling offscreen tiles, only offscreen enemies are culled and then respawned when in range.


Updated graphics drivers but still not much improvement in the lag spikes, if anyone tests v2 posted above, let me know how it runs, because I think my baked potato of a laptop might be exacerbating MegaMaker's performance issues, I think for now I'll just strip out the extra pathways and do the best I can optimizing the main route.

It's weird though, it actually lags when pulling up the info for my level before I can even get into the editor, like it's having trouble reading my data or something.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 07:24:44 pm by SleepyFist »
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kuja killer

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Re: Mega Maker (Mega Man Maker) released!
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2017, 12:20:18 pm »
nah it's nothing wrong with you. i saw tons and tons of people originally on the mega maker forums themselves, and other places saying how bad the game runs for them too on really good high end PC's ...my comp is no where near close to ... "anyone" and i also get the big slowdown too when playing any levels.

No "fan game" should ever be running slow just because a level has too many enemies/objects, or was too long, that's kind of dumb. I've never heard of any such thing ever happening to a "fan game" ever before.

They really need to re-work whatever it is that processes levels. :|

SleepyFist

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Re: Mega Maker (Mega Man Maker) released!
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2017, 12:36:37 pm »
Thanks, glad to know it's not just me, As I said above, I think it's processing tiles even when they're offscreen, if it only loaded portions at a time It might run better, it's not even the enemies doing it, it's solely the length of the levels and the tile count causing it, even in it's most stripped down state with no enemies, hazards, pickups, or animations, it runs lightning fast but stutters constantly.


Made a new challenge level "Nine Rooms", I might have made it a bit spicy, so just leaving it here for someone else to vet before I upload, I could probably also take it to the official forums, but I don't feel like it yet.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m1dtt385di9e0gx/Nine%20rooms.mmlv?dl=0



« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 09:48:57 pm by SleepyFist »
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pianohombre

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Re: Mega Maker (Mega Man Maker) released!
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2017, 05:45:10 pm »
Wow slows down high-end PC's? I think they need to re-write the core of their program in ASM or something. They should be using similar logic to how the NES ran the game. It is a bit bulky in comparison to the NES. 10mb compressed. Sure it's tiny compared to most programs (I believe Candy Crush takes up more than 100mb), but still pretty large compared to the original architecture. Maybe they could somehow get it to run at 8-bit, instead of just running fake 8-bit graphics at 64-bit. I'm not sure exactly how the program works, but if they are wasting a lot of processes pre-loading the entire level it will be laggy. Also perhaps he hasn't understood a key programming concept? Like O(n) and what types of functions cause heavy processing speed, or failing to use recursion when possible.
(sorry I don't mean to complain. I love the program, but also took a class on data structures where we calculated run-time comparisons for separate problems).
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SleepyFist

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Re: Mega Maker (Mega Man Maker) released!
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2017, 12:44:59 am »
Wow slows down high-end PC's? I think they need to re-write the core of their program in ASM or something. They should be using similar logic to how the NES ran the game. It is a bit bulky in comparison to the NES. 10mb compressed. Sure it's tiny compared to most programs (I believe Candy Crush takes up more than 100mb), but still pretty large compared to the original architecture. Maybe they could somehow get it to run at 8-bit, instead of just running fake 8-bit graphics at 64-bit. I'm not sure exactly how the program works, but if they are wasting a lot of processes pre-loading the entire level it will be laggy. Also perhaps he hasn't understood a key programming concept? Like O(n) and what types of functions cause heavy processing speed, or failing to use recursion when possible.
(sorry I don't mean to complain. I love the program, but also took a class on data structures where we calculated run-time comparisons for separate problems).

Well it's apparently made in Game Maker, and if it's still anything like it was back when I was working with it, it has a trigger based event system, kind of a list of trigger events to check for, tied to the actions they set off, with an optional scripting language that gives a bit more control, the only point I had it ever lag was when I was building an insanely overambitious shmup that had no bullet limits programmed in.

I guess if it's constantly checking collision events related to a several hundred or so irrelevant tiles it could probably explain why the engine is seizing up, but I can't really think of a way to stop it from doing that either.

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pianohombre

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Re: Mega Maker (Mega Man Maker) released!
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2017, 05:08:19 am »
Lead programmer could just simulate the NES. Only load up the on-screen graphics and sprites + 1/2 screens away. When reaching certain points in the level, invisible to the player, switch palettes for different graphics. This may speed up run-time. Processes have to go through a queue so if it's loading up graphics for the end part of the level, and/or boss it's waiting to load the graphics as Mega is scrolling right. This could add milliseconds to loading times. Threads should help speed up problems like this with multi-core processors now. Also, if there are multiple embedded loops that's going to bring run-time from O(1) to O(n)^2.

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SleepyFist

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Re: Mega Maker (Mega Man Maker) released!
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2017, 07:44:53 am »
Lead programmer could just simulate the NES. Only load up the on-screen graphics and sprites + 1/2 screens away. When reaching certain points in the level, invisible to the player, switch palettes for different graphics. This may speed up run-time. Processes have to go through a queue so if it's loading up graphics for the end part of the level, and/or boss it's waiting to load the graphics as Mega is scrolling right. This could add milliseconds to loading times. Threads should help speed up problems like this with multi-core processors now. Also, if there are multiple embedded loops that's going to bring run-time from O(1) to O(n)^2.

https://rob-bell.net/2009/06/a-beginners-guide-to-big-o-notation/
Well I meant how to implement that within Game Maker's framework, but yeah this is obviously the way it should run, considering its popularity they should move away from Game Maker and get a self coded engine setup if they have the skills for it.
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pianohombre

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Re: Mega Maker (Mega Man Maker) released!
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2017, 04:17:12 pm »
Oh well if it uses Game Maker as an engine, there's probably not much that can done about it....

Anyone want to list their top 2 levels in MM right now?
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