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Author Topic: One thing I don't quite understand about the Snes9x gx.  (Read 4839 times)

Kallisto

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One thing I don't quite understand about the Snes9x gx.
« on: February 25, 2017, 06:27:46 pm »
Why give the function to do High Quality Filtering X2 or other filter settings when it lags most games on specific consoles like the Wii? It seems like a odd choice to have that functionality available when you really can't do anything with it because of that issue. Unless someone out there has magically fixed the issue..I have not seen it. I think the function makes the games look damn amazing (Mega Man 7 looked really cleaned up), but the slowdown is the huge glaring flaw unfortunately.

Was that setting really only meant for Wii-U or other consoles? Just seems so odd.

FAST6191

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Re: One thing I don't quite understand about the Snes9x gx.
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2017, 06:43:15 pm »
If you are basing your emulator on an existing port/code base elsewhere you might tend to leave such functionality in there (it is not harming anybody, and you can always issue a refund) so you don't have to remove it when the base version gets an update, or so you can use translations from that base version when they appear (and other translation related issues can be dodged too).
You might also have aspirations to one day optimise the code to have it work in some capacity.

FreightMan71

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Re: One thing I don't quite understand about the Snes9x gx.
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2017, 07:08:36 pm »
Why give the function to do High Quality Filtering X2 or other filter settings when it lags most games on specific consoles like the Wii? It seems like a odd choice to have that functionality available when you really can't do anything with it because of that issue. Unless someone out there has magically fixed the issue..I have not seen it. I think the function makes the games look damn amazing (Mega Man 7 looked really cleaned up), but the slowdown is the huge glaring flaw unfortunately.

Was that setting really only meant for Wii-U or other consoles? Just seems so odd.

Hmm...this has given me something to think about (HQ settings for Snes9x on the Wii), as I LOVE using the best possible settings for the emulator on my PC (which is a reasonably powerful rig).

Our Wii is currently still 'stock', but I have everything necessary to add emulation to it (seeing as how Nintendo won't be updating the firmware again), but perhaps, instead of adding Snes9x for it, I should just stick to some of the lesser demanding emulators, such as Nestopia/UE or FCUEx, and some TG and Genesis emulators.

Then whenever Nintendo decides to stop updating the Wii U, perhaps add Snes emulation to that.

Snes9x has become my 'go to' emulator for Nintendo's 16-bit console, and I can't see myself trying to load up something else (like my former one ZSnes) on there...not even really sure if that is possible.

At any rate, perhaps my soon-to-be emulated consoles on Wii should stick to 8-bit emulation, with maybe a not-so-demanding Sega Genesis on there.........UNLESS, Snes9x games still look decent enough even WITHOUT the HQ filters?

Our Wii is connected to a 1080p 52 inch screen (via component cables from the Wii), so raw pixels would probably look downright ugly on it.....

Chronosplit

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Re: One thing I don't quite understand about the Snes9x gx.
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2017, 07:40:04 pm »
Filters/shaders is tricky business.  Especially on RetroArch because there are so many that go so far.  I've found on mobile some filters will lag BSNES mercury but not SNES9x.

I wouldn't have it any other way though.  I recently went to RA and dumped the .emu things to get access to the latest 9x and more cores (it's way better than it used to be, marked improvement is an understatement), and part of the fun is testing about fifty shaders in a newly updated package.  I have core presets now that are pretty vanilla (look ma, I made the bilinear filtering toggle look good!), but some are pretty nuts.

Kallisto

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Re: One thing I don't quite understand about the Snes9x gx.
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2017, 10:34:11 pm »
If you are basing your emulator on an existing port/code base elsewhere you might tend to leave such functionality in there (it is not harming anybody, and you can always issue a refund) so you don't have to remove it when the base version gets an update, or so you can use translations from that base version when they appear (and other translation related issues can be dodged too).
You might also have aspirations to one day optimise the code to have it work in some capacity.

I suppose so, I was thinking that the community probably couldn't get the wii to really push it any further, but if there was a way to fix the problem then that would be awesome, but I think the community is starting to move away from that console now. Wii-U is probably going to be the next big thing by the looks of things, and probably the High Quality filter will be more optimized that system.

Spooniest

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Re: One thing I don't quite understand about the Snes9x gx.
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2017, 01:43:15 am »
Are you talking about like...hq2x stuff?

I have never cared for anything that reduces the clarity of the picture for some reason. Perhaps it has to do with my genetically weak eyesight.

Chronosplit

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Re: One thing I don't quite understand about the Snes9x gx.
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2017, 12:06:45 pm »
Honestly I never really understood the appeal of HQx and similar looking ones.  I like me some Binlenear/Nearest Neighbor/Antiscopic/light scaling depending on the screen but HQx just looks weird to me.

Bahamut ZERO

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Re: One thing I don't quite understand about the Snes9x gx.
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2017, 02:06:50 pm »
Quote
Our Wii is connected to a 1080p 52 inch screen (via component cables from the Wii), so raw pixels would probably look downright ugly on it.....

On my 1800p screen through component cables Snes9x Wii looks just fine. I usually swap between the filtering options (original, Filtered, unfiltered) to suit my taste at the time.

Those HQx filters are sort of nice, but you're not missing out at the least by not using them. If you softmod your wii, definitely grab the Snes emulator. Outside of some of the super old Mario world hacks with custom music, that thing will run just about everything you throw at it like a champ.  :beer:


Quote
RetroArch

I've been hearing about this emulator a lot recently. Think I'll look up the Wii version (if there is one, I'm not 100% sure there is) and see how it compares.
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Kallisto

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Re: One thing I don't quite understand about the Snes9x gx.
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2017, 03:17:42 pm »
Are you able to tell the difference between Original vs. Unfiltered mode? I can't seem to notice any real difference..

Filtered unfortunately makes my picture look blurry, I guess it was not meant for my LG HD.

Chronosplit

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Re: One thing I don't quite understand about the Snes9x gx.
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2017, 04:02:10 pm »
I've been hearing about this emulator a lot recently. Think I'll look up the Wii version (if there is one, I'm not 100% sure there is) and see how it compares.
Takes a lot of setup, but it's worth it at least on mobile after tinkering.  In a way it's really more of a type of emulator frontend but there's cores for pretty well anything you could want.

Kallisto

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Re: One thing I don't quite understand about the Snes9x gx.
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2017, 05:09:06 pm »
As a side-note..I finally found the correct resolution for the Retroarch wii version of SNES9x, and it definitely fixed the whole border issue.

But..

The only issue I'm having now is trying to figure what to do about the pixels, I like Bi linear filtering somewhat, but it makes the SNES game look unnatural (there is a tiny bit of blur). Right now I'm not quite sure how to fix this issue, but just happy I got the resolution issue finally fixed.  If anyone has a bit of experience with video settings for Snes9x Retroarch that knows how to do fix the pixel issue...let me know.


« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 05:28:35 pm by Kallisto »

Chronosplit

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Re: One thing I don't quite understand about the Snes9x gx.
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2017, 07:51:23 pm »
Here's my shader setup for SNES, it's made with the simple bilinear and darken.filt on.  Might help?  I'm using the latest shader package:

Shader Passes: 1
Shader #0: super-res-ex.gsl
Shader #0 Filter: Nearest
Shader #0 Scale: 2x

Keep in mind that this is for a small screen, you might need something more complex and it might just plain look better on a smaller screen:
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 10:23:25 pm by Chronosplit »

Sliver X

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Re: One thing I don't quite understand about the Snes9x gx.
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2017, 11:04:25 pm »
Having grown up playing shit from the Atari 2600 to PS2 on SDTVs, emulating an actual CRT means a lot to me.

25% scanlines with bilinear interpolation is kind of close, but things like Blaarg's NTSC filter and the CRT shaders Mednafen has are about as close to how they should look like as originally intended. Shit, I even run DMG/GBC games with a tiled grid to emulate the dot matrix displays on the original units (Along with motion blur), vertical scanlines for Game Gear games, etc. so maybe I'm not exactly a typical case when it comes to running shit like filters on an emulator.

Spooniest

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Re: One thing I don't quite understand about the Snes9x gx.
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2017, 01:30:51 am »
I've been hearing about this emulator a lot recently. Think I'll look up the Wii version (if there is one, I'm not 100% sure there is) and see how it compares.

There is one. Don't set it to "Gamepad Driver">HID and try out your controller, check compatibility with the device first. Why would I tell you this? Bitter experience of the current moment. :) I think I have to go in and edit the configuration file manually to reset it to respond to my Wii Remote.

Anyhoo, also, something nobody seems comfy saying in the INSTructions is, you have put all relevant files for RetroArch's wii port into a folder called "retroarch-wii." You understand; that exact filename ("retroarch-wii"), or the homebrew channel won't recognize it. :P Also, it has to be in the "apps" folder of whatever external storage you are going to load it from.

RetroArch is somewhat complex...it is always kind of a chore to get running compared to something that is system specific...but it is basically a frontend with almost limitless video/audio/et al options to select from. It really is kind of daunting the number of different things you can configure.

Honestly, I sometimes just load my games from their straight-up VC copies because it's just darn faster...but RetroArch is kind of the ultra-perfectionist's emulation program.

tc

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Re: One thing I don't quite understand about the Snes9x gx.
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2017, 03:11:34 am »
I'm too lazy to put much effort into any of this. If it were me creating the experience... the vision artists and hardware designers would've appreciated has more appeal than all that garbage casual users unknowingly put up with.

Light scanlines and curving to simulate RGB monitors, fine.
Dot crawl, Genesis rainbow banding, N64 vaseline, notorious NTSC red bleed, not so much.

A safe guideline is what video outputs were officially installed day one in the system's first launch region. Almost every traditional console starting with Master System has either RGB or s-video in some capacity. NES is an unusual exception to consider. It added composite (America) followed by s-video (Famicom Titler) years after the fact.

Spooniest

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Re: One thing I don't quite understand about the Snes9x gx.
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2017, 12:54:26 pm »
I'm too lazy to put much effort into any of this. If it were me creating the experience... the vision artists and hardware designers would've appreciated has more appeal than all that garbage casual users unknowingly put up with.

Light scanlines and curving to simulate RGB monitors, fine.
Dot crawl, Genesis rainbow banding, N64 vaseline, notorious NTSC red bleed, not so much.

A safe guideline is what video outputs were officially installed day one in the system's first launch region. Almost every traditional console starting with Master System has either RGB or s-video in some capacity. NES is an unusual exception to consider. It added composite (America) followed by s-video (Famicom Titler) years after the fact.

NES had a Red-and-Yellow Composite out on launch day, I thought? There was also some kind of expansion port on the bottom of the thing (covered with a detachable plastic cover, kind of like a not-so-secure battery cover) that I never found it what it was for?

tc

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Re: One thing I don't quite understand about the Snes9x gx.
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2017, 01:45:16 pm »
NES had a Red-and-Yellow Composite out on launch day, I thought? There was also some kind of expansion port on the bottom of the thing (covered with a detachable plastic cover, kind of like a not-so-secure battery cover) that I never found it what it was for?

Yeah, the NES did. A regular Famicom was RF only.
That expansion port is complicated. Mostly a controller port with some unnecessary weirdness.

Spooniest

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Re: One thing I don't quite understand about the Snes9x gx.
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2017, 05:37:23 pm »
Yeah, the NES did. A regular Famicom was RF only.
That expansion port is complicated. Mostly a controller port with some unnecessary weirdness.

So you're telling me that Famicoms only had a radio frequency adapter out on them?

That means that all the Japan-only stuff was always RF out, and in fact that these games were not designed with composite out in mind at all?

Sliver X

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Re: One thing I don't quite understand about the Snes9x gx.
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2017, 09:19:22 pm »
Composite wasn't something that was all that common on TVs until the early 90s. I ran my NES, Genesis and SNES all via RF adapters well into the mid 90s.

Hell, they even made RF output boxes for the PSX and N64 (And I assume the Saturn had such a thing as well). By the time I got a PSX I had a TV with Composite A/V jacks, though, but that was 1997.

« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 09:29:05 pm by Sliver X »

tc

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Re: One thing I don't quite understand about the Snes9x gx.
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2017, 09:35:27 pm »
So you're telling me that Famicoms only had a radio frequency adapter out on them?

That means that all the Japan-only stuff was always RF out, and in fact that these games were not designed with composite out in mind at all?

The consoles that's right.
Although I doubt games were designed with such an extreme amount of blurring in mind. What artist would want their work subjected to it? Composite more like a SNES is a better middle ground to aim for.