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Author Topic: CRT gaming thread  (Read 3636 times)

Spooniest

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CRT gaming thread
« on: February 07, 2017, 03:30:36 am »
That is awesome...I got my Wii running homebrew off my USB drive.

My SD card isn't big enough to store CD games, so I finally got my USB drive hooked up and figured out pretty fast how it works, you have to select it as the default storage device in the Homebrew Channel's Options Menu (opened with X button on Classic Controller), then, if (like me) all you see is bubbles, make sure you have your games stored in the root of the USB Drive (that is, the folder all the other folders are in, on the Drive...).

Now I can play Sega CD games on a CRT again, like when I was a kid.

Xenobia was hawt btw :D

You got a CRT? Aren't they better for these old games than new screens? I think so.
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SunGodPortal

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Re: CRT gaming thread
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2017, 04:28:31 am »
I think CRT's are way better for old games. My parents TV butchered them pretty bad. I mean stuff like the playable character becoming invisible after taking damage instead of become transparent. I guess the TV couldn't handle something flashing that fast so it just didn't render it at all. Stuff like that totally destroys the gameplay.

I have one CRT that I use regularly and two that I keep in storage. The extra ones were being given away so I took them because I knew they were getting harder to find and that modern TVs can't hand non-HD games worth a shit without extra equipment and even then you might still have some gameplay destroying latency.
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SleepyFist

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Re: CRT gaming thread
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2017, 09:19:36 am »
Ive still got a CRT from 1999, Its great for playing anything up till Xbox 360/PS3, had to splice the power cable back together after one of my dogs chewed it in half though, Also got a second newer one with a DVD/VCR combo built in, pretty nice for watching thrift store animes.

I found out that newer HDTVs are absolute garbage for playing classic games, SNES for example turns into a blurry smear, and n64 has screen flicker, and rips into desynchronized halves constantly, Diddy Kong Racing was not fun played like that.
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FAST6191

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Re: CRT gaming thread
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2017, 01:38:19 pm »
You do know we can emulate CRT effects now?
http://bogost.com/games/a_television_simulator/

Spooniest

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Re: CRT gaming thread
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2017, 01:44:01 pm »
You do know we can emulate CRT effects now?
http://bogost.com/games/a_television_simulator/

Maybe on your fancy schmancy computer with 5 processor cores, sure, Fast.

:D My computer thankfully has just enough RAM for recording halfway decent sounds, and it seems ok with streaming a moderate-quality game stream, but trying to emulate the look of CRT sounds like it'll make my GPU go on strike.

Besides, my CRT's screen is bigger than my LCD's.
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SunGodPortal

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Re: CRT gaming thread
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2017, 06:43:38 pm »
You do know we can emulate CRT effects now?
http://bogost.com/games/a_television_simulator/

I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I originally played a lot of these consoles on a CRT and that's where I want them to stay. I don't want to play them on a phone or a tablet or whatever else. It's a part of the experience, like listening to an album on vinyl instead of ripping it and listening to it on your computer while the actual album goes unseen and collects dust on a shelf.
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FAST6191

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Re: CRT gaming thread
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2017, 03:41:29 am »
For the record I have nothing more potent than a core 2 era dual core and everything I have runs DDR2 ram, save for my old formats video capture machine which is DDR1.

As for part of the experience then if you can replicate information blackout and having to filter nonsense from the playground or pub then we can talk. Without that the meh and I will take what I can get. Also at this point I have been playing emulators for about 2/3 of my life*, to that end it basically the way it is played for me.

*I found my old creative tv coder box the other day which I used to turn VGA into RF and feed that into a CRT to play genecyst, not because I cared especially for that but because it was cool, and I suppose I had a bigger CRT screen than monitor.

SunGodPortal

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Re: CRT gaming thread
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2017, 03:51:01 am »
Also at this point I have been playing emulators for about 2/3 of my life*, to that end it basically the way it is played for me.

Emulators are for peasants. Only console and CRT are real.
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FAST6191

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Re: CRT gaming thread
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2017, 05:03:05 am »
Depending upon how you ascend the family tree I come from a long line of peasants.

Also I live in PAL country so chances are nothing I would have ever done on a console would have been "real", and today I played hacked games and cheats and everything so doubly not real and far away from what developers intended.

Recapnation

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Re: CRT gaming thread
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2017, 06:02:13 am »
Emulators are for peasants. Only console and CRT are real.

It's been long now since emulators stopped being a peasants-only thing, dude.

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Re: CRT gaming thread
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2017, 07:17:33 am »
I run emulators on CRTs through s-video, if that counts. This is how I've tested emulation vs real consoles, to compare aspect ratio, colors, scanlines, etc.

Yeah, CRTs are better for old games, I am certain. Either they are objectively better because that's what the games were designed for, or it's the nostalgia of it.Either way counts.  (or both?)

Also, CRTs don't have the input lag problem of modern screens. There are some newer flat screens that supposedly help in that, but I haven't seen any tests done on that yet. Nor do I know if that's relevant with emulation.

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Re: CRT gaming thread
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2017, 12:35:16 pm »
I've got both an old TV (with SCART RGB connection) and a PC CRT monitor. 

Initially,  I tried the standard S-Video TV-Out on graphic cards. Quality was decent, but it's  restricted to 480i/576i. I was looking for something better with more flexibility, and bought a Scart-VGA adapter (UMSA).

Generally worked out as I intended, downside seems to be that 60 Hz modes trigger NTSC and not PAL60. At least that's how I would think explains the color differences, especially reds become oversaturated.
The Laptop that I used for the VGA connection unfortunately broke down, so I'm relying more on the common emulation devices Wii and the first Xbox again. Not quite as flexible and powerful as a PC, but it's enough for most of the standard stuff I'm currently playing, like Genesis and SNES games without special chips.

The PC monitor is smaller than the TV, but I was amazed that it's possible to also display 240p resolution modes with some fiddling and the right graphics hardware. If you turn down sharpness a bit, it looks very good imho.

As for LCD's, most of the old games I've seen look rubbish whether on TV, tablet or phone without shaders and/or the right filter combinations.  But on a powerful enough device with the right settings, it can be looking good. I'm not sure I'd call it a realistic mimicking of CRT technology yet, using my own TV as reference it seems a bit off still. From what I've read and seen, there can be quite the differences between CRT's themselves though, e.g. Sony Trinitons have supposedly relatively strong scanlines.

Spooniest

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Re: CRT gaming thread
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2017, 12:40:18 pm »
From what I've read and seen, there can be quite the differences between CRT's themselves though, e.g. Sony Trinitons have supposedly relatively strong scanlines.

Trinitron is how they spelt it, I know because I had one, a very small one, which was my first dedicated gaming TV as a child. I found out later that it was some model of Sony Trinitron which sported the first vertically flat TV screen (it was curved horizontally, but flat vertically). :) Might explain the strong scanlines, maybe.
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Recapnation

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Re: CRT gaming thread
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2017, 03:29:29 pm »
It's been long now since emulators stopped being a peasants-only thing, dude.

Please, do not underrate this post. In a nutshell, you have there widely explained how to configure a Windows PC for proper 15-kHz RGB usage ("240-P") with "SCART TVs" or arcade monitors. Especially now that Calamity has just released the new driver with support for most AMD/ATI cards out there.

Better than the consoles themselves in not few cases, believe or not.

SunGodPortal

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Re: CRT gaming thread
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2017, 07:44:17 pm »
I run emulators on CRTs through s-video, if that counts.

Hybrid.
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Spooniest

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Re: CRT gaming thread
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2017, 09:38:13 am »
I'm gonna google my specs for my CRT atm. :D Get back to you.
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Re: CRT gaming thread
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2017, 11:31:28 am »
I often disagree with how CRT shaders are made to look. They have extremelly exagerated scanlines and dot visibility. CRTs weren't (aren't) like this to the human eye. Maybe they are if you take a photograph from up close, but that's not realistic to the experience.

So yeah, my prefered way to play old games is on my soft modded wii, using emulators and a snes to gc port adapter from http://www.raphnet-tech.com/
The emulator may not be perfect but it's way better than playing on an LCD even with a more accurate emulator.

Maybe in the future when I have a 4k LCD screen and CRT shaders become more realistic (or I program one, as I have interest in that), I'll decide to retire the wii, but for now, even though I own several old consoles and games, it's just the best way to play overall.

It's been long now since emulators stopped being a peasants-only thing, dude.
This sounds like a deligth to read, I'll take the time later!

Spooniest

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Re: CRT gaming thread
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2017, 11:38:51 am »
Well, this is all I could find.

It doesn't say anything about the native resolution, and my guess based on the absence of that info is that this is not a relevant measurement for a cathode ray tube screen? Or is it? Do they have some standard resolution that I just don't know because I'm dumb? Likely...
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Recapnation

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Re: CRT gaming thread
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2017, 03:56:48 pm »
I often disagree with how CRT shaders are made to look. They have extremelly exagerated scanlines and dot visibility. CRTs weren't (aren't) like this to the human eye. Maybe they are if you take a photograph from up close, but that's not realistic to the experience.

I don't think it's the shader's fault (at least, if you're using a very-high-res monitor), it's flat screens'. They still have many issues which just make impossible to get a result a good-enough result. And if we also bring lag into the equation, there's no possible discussion as of now.

There were many CRTs with "extremely exaggerated scanlines", actually. But then again, it all depends on your experience. Many people consider mid-end (~400 TVL) RGB Trinitrons' black lines too "exaggerated" (which may be your case) for not being used to RGB signals/arcade monitors, whereas the truth is that only high-end (+500 TVL) Trinitrons' picture can be assumed to display too thick black lines for gaming, since that was never their purpose. What's important is to realize that RGB is the proper way to display _any_ video game from those years, even if the system itself didn't support the signal or the TVs in your country neither did. Try it at least once with a good 15-kHz CRT (it doesn't have to be a Sony) and a good selection of games too and then decide if you (not you, whoever) still prefer subpar signals such as S-video or composite which will hide the scanlines effect due to their unclean nature.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 04:02:48 pm by Recapnation »

Spooniest

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Re: CRT gaming thread
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2017, 05:05:09 pm »
Scanline visibility would be impacted by more than the quality of the screen itself...there's display settings on the thing (Sharpness, for instance), ambient light in the room, distance one is sitting from the screen, heck, the visual acuity of the individual may even come into play.

How do you measure this thing that I have not cared about measuring until you began to talk about measuring it? You've got me curious.
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