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Author Topic: Chrono trigger plus  (Read 131553 times)

einlanzer

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #640 on: February 27, 2019, 09:53:05 am »
To be fair, though, the forest scene actually sort of breaks the continuity of the game because of the limit of 3 time travelers, which I always assumed was why they didn't have other scenes like that. They never really explained that - it's as if they just temporarily forgot about it for that one scene.

Mauron

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #641 on: February 27, 2019, 12:19:34 pm »
I'd say the forest scene works fine. Robo takes the long way to get to 1000 AD, three could use the Epoch, and three could use the nearest gate.

I've gotten a little more hacking time in lately. I'm updating the super command descriptions and decoding some more animation commands for techs.
Mauron wuz here.

Outsider

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #642 on: March 01, 2019, 09:07:52 pm »
Thinking out loud again...there are a few good moments of character interaction in CT, but a large amount of the dialogue is written to be party-agnostic.  At the beginning of the game, you get some great moments with Marle, Lucca, Lucca+Frog, Marle+Lucca...then, around the time you get Robo, the very nature of the party's dialogue changes. Instead of it being, "Marle talks to Lucca," now it's "Marle says something about the situation. Lucca then says something about the situation, in a way that doesn't acknowledge the previous speaker whatsoever." -- because the previous speaker could be anybody. Not everybody gets to know each other, and yet somehow, people on the B-Team know everything that's going on, as if they were there from the start.  I've thought of a few things that could, at the very least, add some fresh new dynamics to the cast.

End of Time Conversations
In The End of Time, characters talk to each other. No longer do they simply ask to join your party, then get upset if you say no. Some examples:

- Marle, asking Frog about her great great great great grandmother.
- Lucca, reconciling with her initial fear of Frog's appearance, and coping with the idea that "Magic" is a thing.
- Marle and Lucca talking about Chrono, while Chrono sits silently at the opposite end of the room (if he happens to be alive).
- Frog, feeling mesmerized by this large talking suit of metal armor that the others call "Robo."
- Lucca, fixing up Robo and Robo asking something existential.
- Frog and Ayla, talking about loyalty and protecting the weak.
- Marle, Lucca and Ayla having a conversation that isn't what you think.
- Robo, having an awkward conversation with Marle about Provoke/Allure, and how illogical of a combat tactic it is.
- Robo, in his ongoing quest to learn about humans--nay, humanity--asking questions to Ayla that are way over Ayla's head.
- Ayla, showing absolutely no trepidation, going up to Magus to say what she thinks of him.
- Lucca, curious about Ancient Zeal technology, making an inquiry to Magus that is met with "Why are you asking me? Go talk to one of the Gurus."
- Marle, approaching Magus in a very "You poor, tortured soul! Let me fix you!!!" sort of way, with no success.
- Robo, in his ongoing quest to learn about humans--nay, humanity--deeming it only logical to have a conversation with Magus. Magus is surprisingly open, answering most of Robo's questions. Robo makes note that he's talked more with him than any other living being, Magus sharply responding that he doesn't consider Robo a "living being."
- Chrono, talking to Magus. Chrono says nothing, while Magus tells you it's rude to interrupt a private conversation.

I've detailed the logistics of this system, realizing now that it may very well exceed what you are capable of doing in a rom hack.  But I don't want it to go to waste, so here's what would need to be done:

- All secondary party members would need to be removed from the End of Time, and "replaced" with a regular-old NPC object. (If you want to change party members, press Y)

- Every NPC Object would have a Default State, which includes the coordinates they normally spawn in at, and some generic dialogue. This is where everyone who is not a part of a custom conversation would go.

- NPC Objects would also have a Conversation State, wherein they have custom coordinates and dialogue (Both, based on what conversation is taking place).

- In Default State, the character's dialogue can change depending on game events, and who is in the lead position at the time. (Just for a little flavor)

- When you enter End of Time from the Epoch or a Gate, a check will take place to see if a "Conversation Event" will occur. NOT when you enter from Spekkio's room, if possible. NOT after you exit the Party Menu.

- A "Conversation Event" occurs if these conditions are met:
- - - Members A, B (and sometimes C) are not in your party.
- - - A prerequisite in-game event has occurred. (Optional)
- - - A special flag, specific to each conversation, is not currently set. (More on this soon).

- The game goes with the first conversation that meets the aforementioned requirements, preventing multiple conversations from occurring at once. Using a queue would allow you to check if members of Conversation 1 and 2 AREN'T shared, in which case both conversations could execute...but that's going above and beyond.

- During a Conversation Event between two or more characters, all participating NPC Objects will initiate the same dialogue when spoken to. (i.e. Talking to Marle or talking to Lucca will always lead off with Marle's line)
- - - It may be necessary to lock player movement during these dialogues.

- After seeing the conversation through to completion, a special flag would be need to be set to indicate the end of this particular conversation, preventing it from occurring again.
- - - Members of the conversation will have different dialogue, when talking to them immediately following the conversation. A 'closing statement' of sorts. You only get one chance to read this text, so it's fairly inconsequential.  Check for ("In Conversation Event" == true and "This Conversation Is Over" == true)

- If you swap out party members in EoT while a Conversation Event is active, and one of those characters is a member of said conversation, then "cleanu" occurs. Members in Conversation State (Custom position and dialogue) return to Default State.
- - - (So, you'd need to do a check if Player closes party menu, and is also at the end of time).

- Anyone you swap out from your party while in the End of Time should automatically enter Default State.
- - - For some extra spice, you could have them be in "Benched State," where their dialogue matches what they would have said if you told them "No" to joining the party.

...

...

Simple, right? This might be approaching "If you want the feature, you'll have to create an illegal remake of Chrono Trigger" territory.

Vanya

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #643 on: March 02, 2019, 12:51:52 am »
That would be pretty damn awesome.
Seems like it would be a relatively simple way to add a lot of character development.

ThegreatBen

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #644 on: March 02, 2019, 08:20:28 am »
That's a really good idea however the end of time script is already full, I've already had to split it in two.

What I can do is rewrite the dialog for the conversation with Gaspar after Crono's death and have all characters chime in.

I can also add more interactions to other less busy areas in the game.

Outsider

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #645 on: March 02, 2019, 04:10:02 pm »
Next item. I did have more than one, but that last one took awhile. Better to spread them out, I say.

Characters In Their Element

You switch a character from your party in the Y menu. Normally, they just disappear, and you can find them again in the End of Time. Well not anymore! (kinda)

Characters who are currently in your party, whom you swap out, will (temporarily) show up in a different location in said time period, where a scene might play out. Again, this depends largely on game events.  Once you travel to a different time, said character will just return to the End of Time.

I'm gonna organize this by time periods, based on how much thought I've put in.

600 A.D.
Marle:
She goes to talk to Queen Leene.

Lucca:
She goes to the house where her obvious ancestors live.

Frog:
(Before Cyrus Tomb quest is complete): he goes to his little hole in the ground and reflects.
(After Cyrus Tomb quest complete): Maybe he hangs out at Guardia Castle. The obvious answer would've been the tomb, but I think the point of that event is that he's done with that place and is ready to move on.

Robo:
(After Fiona's Quest): In Fiona's house, trying to explain to a baffled Fiona how he can be two places at once. He learns a valuable lesson about telling people what they need to hear, in terms that they could understand (Even if it bends the truth).

Ayla:
Guardia Castle kitchen. Always.

Magus:
(Before beating Ozzie's Fort): Nowhere. He has no reason to be anywhere at this time.
(After beating Ozzie's Fort) - Ozzie's Fort.

1000 A.D.

Marle:
(Before defeating fake Chancellor): Crono's house.
(After reconciling with King): Guardia Castle, either in her room. Or maybe talking to King.

Lucca:
(Before saving Lara): Lucca's house, talking to dad.
(If Lara is saved): Lucca's house, talking to mom.

Frog:
I dunno, Porre? Medina after Ozzie is defeated?

Ayla:
Millennial Fair Jurassic Rock area. "No no no!! They do it all wrong!!"

Robo:
Zenan Bridge, watching people go by.

Magus:
(Before Frog visits Cyrus) Toma's grave. He likes to stand on cliffs looking out at the sea.
(After Frog visits Cyrus) Cyrus's grave. Could he be showing a shred of humanity?? You won't find out, because he just says something like "What are you doing here?"

2300 A.D.

Marle:
Probably one of the domes, showing sympathy and trying to help.

Lucca:
Probably one of the domes, showing sympathy and trying to help. Maybe at that computer where they first saw the Lavos video.

Frog:
I don't know. Sewer?

Robo:
Probably one of the domes, showing sympathy and trying to help.
Maybe it changes after beating Mother Brain.

Magus:
Keeper's Dome, because Belthasar was there.

65,000,000 B.C.

Most characters would probably be in Chief's Hut.

Robo:
Meeting site, seems like a good place to study the human race.

Magus: Dactyl Nest, 'cause he likes cliffs so much.

12,000 B.C.
I dunno.

Oh, I almost forgot. You could probably stick Crono somewhere. Maybe he's sleeping in whatever free bed is available for each time period.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 04:39:36 pm by Outsider »

ThegreatBen

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #646 on: March 02, 2019, 06:38:56 pm »
It's alot of work but I might be able to do something with it.

Outsider

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #647 on: March 07, 2019, 03:26:15 pm »
I might be able to make some more "grounded" suggestions if I know the capabilities of the editor/hacking tools.  I don't intend on becoming a rom hacker myself, so I don't really have time to look into the systems.  What I can assume right now is:

- You can add new 'Rooms' to the game. Room in the sense of 'place to explore,' not limited to the indoors.

- Existing rooms have a hard limit to how much dialogue is can be present (you mentioned this when talking about End of Time scenes)

- There's a tile-based map editing that's probably a huge pain in the butt to work with, I assume because while going through Schala Project, the vast majority of new ares were very primitive and repetitive.  But that also means copying and pasting existing areas is a viable option when making new rooms.

- There are ways you can 'Teleport' the player from one area to another. I saw it done in Schala Project, and though I've never played Frozen Flame/Crimson Echoes, I think they do it too.

You might have to explain some of the mechanics to me, particularly how 'Room Teleporting' is achieved and how custom scenes where player A) cannot move, or B) isn't present are made...but if it is possible, these could lend themselves to some creative workarounds.

- Going up and talking to a character in the End of Time 'Teleports' you into a graphically duplicate room, with none of the script dialogue from the dialogue from the original room.  There would be an abrupt fade-out -> fade in effect before extended character dialogue takes place, but as fans of JRPGs, I'm willing to bet that it wouldn't seem too out of the ordinary.

I had a second dash-idea, but it occurred to me that you may be referring to 'script' as in executable code, not dialogue.  If that's the case, you could disregard the suggestion.

ThegreatBen

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #648 on: March 08, 2019, 03:16:32 pm »
Just about anything is possible, I've actually already duplicated the end of time map, but you've given me an idea.

I briefly tried the mobile game Another Eden, and while I got sick of it really fast the the End of Time area in that game was much better done. It had a bar and other accidental time travellers to interact with.

Instead of identical two EoTs one used for the beginning and one at the end (which is what I have now) maybe I'll divide it up between two maps, add the bar/lounge area allowing much more space for interactions and being a better hub area, one where the crew could comfortably wait while waiting to be called.

Shade Aurion

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #649 on: March 09, 2019, 03:21:37 am »
That sounds awesome!

Recca

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #650 on: March 14, 2019, 03:00:05 pm »
Though I know that this would be quite hard to implement, it would be interesting if there was branching story line options such as having the chance to save/recruit Schala at the Ocean Palace (like in the Schala edition hack or even before that incident) or being able to play as human form Glenn by having his curse removed (either by defeating Magus or having him remove it after joining the party). Azala might also be an interesting character to save and possibly recruit by having either Crono, Ayla or some other party member convince her to come along with them. But I suppose that such a thing would be unlikely to happen, though it's still an interesting idea. Frog is already an amphibian, why not add a reptilian Reptite to the team as well? :laugh:

By the way, having a bar/lounge area at End of Time where you can talk to other accidental time travelers as well as your party members sounds like a great idea. Having new places like this in the game for players to explore adds a fresh experience to a timeless classic. :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 03:05:31 pm by Recca »
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andrewclunn

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #651 on: March 14, 2019, 03:23:51 pm »
The ultimate expansion ability would be to end the game after the battle with Magus, but with a save file prompting the user to insert disk 2.  Two different roms with the same name in distinct folders (hence each accessing the same save file).  Then in the second half rom, disable the ability to start a new game or new game plus.

This would allow for massive flag reset and use, removal of large sections of the game for unique content in each disk (maps, enemies, music, etc...) and so long as characters, techs, and items were the same between sections, there would be no problems.  By removing Lavos bush rush mode already, the old boss data already didn't need to be there.

Alternatively the other proper place for this save / rom disk swap would be immediately after the ocean palace.  Essentially putting the end game into its own section.

ThegreatBen

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #652 on: March 14, 2019, 04:17:18 pm »
The Schala project did it's own thing and I'm not going to step on it's toes, the author of it seems to have completely disappeared though.

There was talk of a hack that would allow all characters to have a second set of sprites but it's been quiet for quite a while.

Not Azala but some Reptites can be saved in this version.

Thanks for the input, the more I think about it the more I like the idea of making the end of time a real time travellers hub.

@Andrew it's something to think about, I'm not sure how well it'd work in practice though.

lexluthermiester

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #653 on: March 14, 2019, 08:43:58 pm »
The Schala project did it's own thing and I'm not going to step on it's toes, the author of it seems to have completely disappeared though.
I don't think anyone would mind.
the more I think about it the more I like the idea of making the end of time a real time travellers hub
That sounds like a fun idea!

Grillkick

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #654 on: March 15, 2019, 04:51:41 am »
That would be a cool place to have Cloud hanging out after he got tossed into the Lifestream ala Final Fantasy Tactics :D


Vanya

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #655 on: March 15, 2019, 06:13:26 am »
A vague Dr.Who reference would be nice.
Final Fantasy Legend III has time travel on a ship, some of those characters would make good candidates.
Star Tropics II has time travel and Nintendo and Square were pretty tight back in the day.
Chrono Cross, of course.
Final Fantasy VIII has a couple of characters capable of time travel.
And Final Fantasy 1 has time travel as the main plot.
And maybe an appearance by the ship from Time Pilot as a model on a shelf would be pretty sick.

Pape29018

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #656 on: March 15, 2019, 06:28:59 pm »
Following Vanya suggestions, how about the time traveler Balthier from Final Fantasy Tactics: The War of the Lions inside the bar. In FFT, Balthier explains he needs to return to the Cache of Glabados to put things back as they were. He could give Lucca a "star named" gun from Final Fantasy XII.

Shade Aurion

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #657 on: March 16, 2019, 12:08:28 am »
Using the dog's Omnitopia sprite from Secret of Evermore would work as a Dr Who Reference and a nod to another Square IP. Tales of Phantasia deals with a lot of time travel also ;)

Vanya

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #658 on: March 16, 2019, 02:56:20 am »
Nice! A double reference would be sick.

Timbo

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #659 on: March 16, 2019, 03:08:03 am »
Don't forget to throw in the crew of the Heart of Gold from the Hitchhiker's Guide too the Galaxy. They all had dinner at the Restaurant At the End of the Universe. That Restaurant literally travels back and forth across the last moments of the Universe.

I would absolutely adore seeing the Doctor and K9 getting on with Douglas Adams best creations.