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Author Topic: Chrono trigger plus  (Read 28021 times)

Thirteen 1355

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #60 on: May 19, 2017, 05:55:08 am »
If you really want to see a Trigger game that connects with Cross, I recommend playing Flames of Eternity/Crimson Echoes.

lexluthermiester

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #61 on: May 20, 2017, 06:41:58 pm »
If you really want to see a Trigger game that connects with Cross, I recommend playing Flames of Eternity/Crimson Echoes.
That's a fan game and not a cannon work. Just not a fan of Cross. Kinda of a Trigger purist if you want to put it that way.

OK folks, a couple ideas are being kicked around and it's been suggest that we get input from the target audience.

The first is the suggestion of making accessible the floating islands in the lower left area and upper right area of Zeal as was actually planned by the original dev team.

The second is modifying the dialogue of all NPC's in 600ad to match Frog's very charming Shakespearean dialect, something that was also planned by the North American localization team but was not implemented due to time constraints.

Let's get some input folks, what do you think?

Thirteen 1355

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #62 on: May 20, 2017, 06:44:29 pm »
I don't see any problems with making more areas accessible, especially in Zeal  :thumbsup:

I don't really know what to think of the second idea, though. The Shakespearean dialect being used by Frog was fun and gave a bit of character to the guy. I think overuse will diminish Frog's character and will make it become a bit annoying.

lexluthermiester

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #63 on: May 20, 2017, 06:49:06 pm »
I don't see any problems with making more areas accessible, especially in Zeal  :thumbsup:
Expecting a positive response to this one as Zeal was universally well loved area of the game.
I don't really know what to think of the second idea, though. The Shakespearean dialect being used by Frog was fun and gave a bit of character to the guy. I think overuse will diminish Frog's character and will make it become a bit annoying.
I was giving thought to the same thing. Maybe just Frog's home continent?..

Chronosplit

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #64 on: May 20, 2017, 07:03:53 pm »
Middle Ages should not reflect Frog's speech, unless you're willing to also correct all of Frog's script to propper use of his accent (correct words etc.) which is not the easiest task in the world.  Compliance with that wish from Woolsey would either run into the same problems as FFT's PSP port, or make it sound really broken.  There were theories back in the day that Frog talked like he did out of the fact that he had grown frog lips instead of because he was from 600 AD for a reason.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 07:12:57 pm by Chronosplit »

SunGodPortal

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #65 on: May 20, 2017, 07:12:00 pm »
I personally like the dialogue as it is. It's hard to beat content like "My son's the legendary hero! It must have been all that oatmeal!" LOL I'd say Frog's dialogue is more a reflection of his eccentricity rather than his environs. He takes his role very seriously and I think that's probably why his dialogue is so unusually stiff. If you want to dig even deeper you could even say that his speech patterns are a form of over-compensation reflecting his self-consciousness about being a "freak". Like, maybe he wants to be as proper as possible since people might assume that his appearance might be an indication of what his behavior might be like. That would make sense since Glenn was a rather insecure individual.
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.

Chronosplit

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #66 on: May 20, 2017, 07:23:24 pm »
I personally like the dialogue as it is. It's hard to beat content like "My son's the legendary hero! It must have been all that oatmeal!" LOL I'd say Frog's dialogue is more a reflection of his eccentricity rather than his environs. He takes his role very seriously and I think that's probably why his dialogue is so unusually stiff. If you want to dig even deeper you could even say that his speech patterns are a form of over-compensation reflecting his self-consciousness about being a "freak". Like, maybe he wants to be as proper as possible since people might assume that his appearance might be an indication of what his behavior might be like. That would make sense since Glenn was a rather insecure individual.
Kermit put it best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpiIWMWWVco

lexluthermiester

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #67 on: May 20, 2017, 07:54:24 pm »
I personally like the dialogue as it is. It's hard to beat content like "My son's the legendary hero! It must have been all that oatmeal!"
Good point. This is not going to be a slap-happy effort. Great care will be taken to make all dialogue "fit" in and have the same meaning.
LOL I'd say Frog's dialogue is more a reflection of his eccentricity rather than his environs. He takes his role very seriously and I think that's probably why his dialogue is so unusually stiff.
Agreed. However to that end the fact that he aspired to serve the royal family is enough to merit strong consideration that he was always trying to present himself in the best possible light, which then suggests that he was attempting to speak with as much eloquence as someone from his continent could muster which then suggests that the whole continent at minimum spoke with the dialect.
If you want to dig even deeper you could even say that his speech patterns are a form of over-compensation reflecting his self-consciousness about being a "freak". Like, maybe he wants to be as proper as possible since people might assume that his appearance might be an indication of what his behavior might be like. That would make sense since Glenn was a rather insecure individual.
This I disagree with. While Glen was serving in the shadow of a full knight he was none-the-less strongly determined if not all that confident. I've never viewed Glen/Frog as a wimpy weakling. It seemed clear that his changed form altered his self image and made him unsure of himself. At no point did that seem to suggest insecurity. That may seem like semantics, but there is a subtle difference.
Middle Ages should not reflect Frog's speech, unless you're willing to also correct all of Frog's script to proper use of his accent (correct words etc.) which is not the easiest task in the world.
Excellent point, and while that would make sense, it seems like those minor foibles of speech were intentional to make it seem as though Frog was speaking naturally instead of deliberately "Shakespearean", which is how normal people talk.
Compliance with that wish from Woolsey would either run into the same problems as FFT's PSP port, or make it sound really broken.
I see your point but disagree, and again because of the natural speech point. Glen/Frog was not of royal lineage and would therefore naturally speak with slightly broken vocabulary.
There were theories back in the day that Frog talked like he did out of the fact that he had grown frog lips instead of because he was from 600 AD for a reason.
That idea would suggest less a refined form of speech and more a guttural, raspy sounding form. The above perspectives seem more logical.

Digitsie

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #68 on: May 20, 2017, 08:07:46 pm »
Frankly, I don't mind, I just always felt Zeal and Janus was a story with a loose end, so if you're gonna keep it self-contained, why not finish it using the extra Zeal dungeon and add a bit more to the ending?

As to Frog, I lean towards keeping it limited to just him and maybe a small group of people related to him in his era?

ThegreatBen

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #69 on: May 20, 2017, 10:13:39 pm »
The two unused islands in Zeal are both already fully explorable in this hack, its in the first post.

as for the accent, it was a good idea but it doesn't seem to be too popular.

as for new updates, I took 20 minutes and changed some scenery around Magus' castle allowing you to see his whole castle, previously the gate was blocked by trees and the towers including the winged wolf statue was never visible before in game.

SunGodPortal

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #70 on: May 20, 2017, 11:41:43 pm »
This I disagree with. While Glen was serving in the shadow of a full knight he was none-the-less strongly determined if not all that confident. I've never viewed Glen/Frog as a wimpy weakling. It seemed clear that his changed form altered his self image and made him unsure of himself. At no point did that seem to suggest insecurity. That may seem like semantics, but there is a subtle difference.

I agree that part of this is semantics, but to clarify, what I'm viewing as "insecurity" is illustrated in the flashbacks with him and Cyrus where a young Glenn is completely lacking confidence during the conversation on the bridge and the even younger Glenn is being bullied in the forest as well as after the Queen is returned and he falls into depression and goes to hide in the forest because he sees himself as a failure. It would seem that the majority of the moments where Frog's character is being developed it is used to illustrate the internal struggles that have been eating him up for most of his life. Sure, he eventually finds his way but during the most important parts relative to his character he is shown to be a very damaged individual who is struggling to maintain a brave face. That's my take on it anyway.

Frankly, I don't mind, I just always felt Zeal and Janus was a story with a loose end, so if you're gonna keep it self-contained, why not finish it using the extra Zeal dungeon and add a bit more to the ending?

Unless something is done regarding Schala's disappearance, Janus/Magus story has no hope of closure and will always feel incomplete. Still an amazing story though.
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.

ThegreatBen

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #71 on: May 21, 2017, 03:38:03 pm »
Finished up the story part of my 2300ad dungeon, added some more enemies too, all that's left is a few more enemies and some party reactions and its ready.

as for saving Schala I easily add her to the end of the black omen next to the queen and allow the party to save her it would take about an hour to add but it would completely contradict the entire story of Chrono Cross.

Thirteen 1355

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #72 on: May 21, 2017, 04:28:18 pm »
Yeah, I think saving Schala in Trigger shouldn't be a thing.

lexluthermiester

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #73 on: May 21, 2017, 05:04:47 pm »
Yeah, I think saving Schala in Trigger shouldn't be a thing.
I disagree. Saving Schala would be an interesting plot twist and would add some over-all fun to that area of the game. But that's ultimately up to Ben.

SunGodPortal

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #74 on: May 21, 2017, 05:46:41 pm »
I'm not sure where I stand on the actual adding of a Schala resolution. I was joint pointing out that her/Janus' story arc is by nature open/incomplete. The story makes you want to care about her so it did always kinda bother me that you are just left to wonder what has happened to her.
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.

Chronosplit

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #75 on: May 21, 2017, 05:57:11 pm »
I disagree. Saving Schala would be an interesting plot twist and would add some over-all fun to that area of the game. But that's ultimately up to Ben.
I'd like plus to respect canon, I'm not the hacker though.

Killing Lavos split the timeline, with that specific Schala and that specific Lavos meeting in what is basically the trash pit for discarded timelines.  This effects all dimensions because all timelines go there.  In a roundabout way rescuing Schala would've meant Cross wouldn't happen in any dimension, as far as my understanding goes anyway.  Radical Dreamers happened in yet another dimension though, so... I dunno, maybe it's explainable and my theory is blown out of the water.

Confused yet?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 06:11:44 pm by Chronosplit »

ThegreatBen

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #76 on: May 21, 2017, 06:19:36 pm »
For how much work it would be I could add it as an installer option. But I want to finish everything else up first. I would also need to know where she would go and what she would say.

another thing, I have no idea where snes9x is sending my screenshots, could I get one of you to take a screenshot from my rom and post it here for me?

Digitsie

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #77 on: May 21, 2017, 07:06:41 pm »
Given time travel, can't you just have Magus leaving the party during this time, and coming back with a much older Schala, both of who refuse to discuss their adventures and where they've been? Basically, pick a dungeon where it would be challenging -without- Magus in the party so that it functions as a 'optional challenge'.

« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 07:16:25 pm by Digitsie »

Chronosplit

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #78 on: May 21, 2017, 07:35:49 pm »
For how much work it would be I could add it as an installer option. But I want to finish everything else up first.
Good plan.

Quote
I would also need to know where she would go and what she would say.
Where she would go, hmm.  There really aren't that many places.  Maybe you actually rescue her from The End of Time in a last chance mission via a red gate?

This wouldn't need to be an NG+ thing because Schala doesn't technically pop up in there same time as Lavos (well, when you throw out "does time even flow there?")
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 09:01:47 pm by Chronosplit »

lexluthermiester

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Re: Chrono trigger plus
« Reply #79 on: May 21, 2017, 08:11:49 pm »
For how much work it would be I could add it as an installer option. But I want to finish everything else up first. I would also need to know where she would go and what she would say.
I agree Chronosplit, that is good idea. But it's good to finish up this stage of things.
another thing, I have no idea where snes9x is sending my screenshots, could I get one of you to take a screenshot from my rom and post it here for me?
It should be saving them in the Snes9x folder in the "ScreenShots" folder. Dropbox the IPS file and I'll happily help out.