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Author Topic: Un-Worked Designs: Working Designs minus bullshit difficulty (Latest: Lunar 2)  (Read 38612 times)

Supper

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How do I verify the version of a CD game? I am using a Bin/Cue rip...but I don't know if it's the one you're using.

Sorry for wasting your time. :(

Oh, no, I'm the one who should apologize -- the patch isn't working right!

If you are using a BIN/CUE, that's interesting. Could you possibly upload just the CUE file somewhere? It may be specifying the audio tracks in a way that makes bchunk output them differently from what I expected. Also, did you check to see if there's extra silence at the start of the audio tracks? I don't mean to harp on this, but I'm operating on the assumption that that's the root issue here. Sorry for all the trouble.

EDIT: Also, is your BIN file 498,555,792 bytes in size?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 06:40:02 pm by Supper »

Spooniest

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498,555,792 bytes in Size.
498,556,928 bytes in Size on disk.

...I don't know the difference between the two and they are the same number of figures so here? :D

Um...my .cue file, upload it?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4m7g4x7g74lvkji/Lunar%20-%20The%20Silver%20Star%20%28Sega%20CD%29%20%28U%29.cue


I am sorry that looks ugly, I'm tired and don't feel like fixing it. The backspace key works though so this sentence ended up typo-free.

Supper

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It sounds like your BIN and CUE are fine. That being the case, your audio files should also be fine, which leaves the possibility that this is a difference in how GPGX handles ISO/WAV/CUE compared to other emulators. What I can tell you is that, for a verified BIN/CUE dump patched using binpatch.bat, this CUE file works correctly in Fusion and Gens.

I don't have GPGX set up at the moment, so right now I can't test this personally to see what the problem is. If the third test CUE file I linked above didn't cause any change whatsoever, then I'm quite stumped. I hate to leave you hanging, but at this point I'm not sure there's much I can do short of setting up the emulator and testing it myself. Sorry :(

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498,555,792 bytes in Size.
498,556,928 bytes in Size on disk.

...I don't know the difference between the two and they are the same number of figures so here?

Size on disk is how much space your file takes on your disk due to how it is formatted. Hard drive sectors are organized into clusters and only one file can occupy a cluster though a file may be in multiple clusters. Any space left over in the cluster is wasted. For example ntfs has 4kb clusters by default so a 1kb file takes up 4kb on the disk.
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Spooniest

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Size on disk is how much space your file takes on your disk due to how it is formatted. Hard drive sectors are organized into clusters and only one file can occupy a cluster though a file may be in multiple clusters. Any space left over in the cluster is wasted. For example ntfs has 4kb clusters by default so a 1kb file takes up 4kb on the disk.

...You say that clusters cannot be shared by more than one different file, but a file will take up as many clusters as it needs to to occupy the hard drive space it requires...and sometimes clusters are just not completely used by the number of bytes in the file, and part of them is empty, but still counted against total hard drive space?

...I think I followed you?

chrisw80

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Grateful for you doing this, but the audio is off on real hardware, like the rips of yore...

Supper

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Grateful for you doing this, but the audio is off on real hardware, like the rips of yore...

Ugh. Well, thanks for trying it, anyway. Guess I'm going to have to set up RetroArch and test this on GPGX, but if you don't mind risking a couple of coasters, you can try using these CUE sheets in the meantime:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/9u8aa1fa9b9g9at/LunarTheSilverStarUnWorked_test4.cue
http://www.mediafire.com/file/rneko6xqi53kgv7/LunarTheSilverStarUnWorked_test5.cue

These are my best guesses at a fix after poring over the CUE specifications. The CUE file currently included with the patch expects a physical pregap to be baked into the WAV files, which is not the case when a verified BIN is patched. Further muddying the issue, many emulators don't interpret the CUE correctly and will work fine despite this problem. I've added PREGAP commands to the CUE files above in the hope it'll sort everything out; for what little it's worth, these do work right in Fusion and Gens.

Meanwhile, I've fixed quite a lot of stuff I missed in Eternal Blue, and I'm currently doing a test run through the new revision. I'll post the updated patch once I'm done.

GHANMI

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Just in case you're still interested in that Grandia font, here it is extracted from the RAM.
Dimensions 8x15, and it's misaligned this way in memory.
This is the US version. The PAL version font reused half-width katakana for accentuated characters.

Spoiler:

chrisw80

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Ugh. Well, thanks for trying it, anyway. Guess I'm going to have to set up RetroArch and test this on GPGX, but if you don't mind risking a couple of coasters, you can try using these CUE sheets in the meantime:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/9u8aa1fa9b9g9at/LunarTheSilverStarUnWorked_test4.cue
http://www.mediafire.com/file/rneko6xqi53kgv7/LunarTheSilverStarUnWorked_test5.cue

These are my best guesses at a fix after poring over the CUE specifications. The CUE file currently included with the patch expects a physical pregap to be baked into the WAV files, which is not the case when a verified BIN is patched. Further muddying the issue, many emulators don't interpret the CUE correctly and will work fine despite this problem. I've added PREGAP commands to the CUE files above in the hope it'll sort everything out; for what little it's worth, these do work right in Fusion and Gens.

Meanwhile, I've fixed quite a lot of stuff I missed in Eternal Blue, and I'm currently doing a test run through the new revision. I'll post the updated patch once I'm done.

Awesome, I will give it a go. It is also an issue with Popful Mail and Vay.

February 23, 2017, 05:50:36 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Test 4 works perfectly. At least for the opening and bgm. Thanks
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 05:50:36 pm by chrisw80 »

Spooniest

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Test 4 worked for me sound-wise, but now all the letters are back in caps lock. :| Um...

chrisw80

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Test 4 worked for me sound-wise, but now all the letters are back in caps lock. :| Um...

Weird. Working as intended on my end.

Spooniest

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Weird. Working as intended on my end.

I did something wrong...deleted some file I wasn't supposed to I'll wager
I've been kind of out of it lately :/

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...You say that clusters cannot be shared by more than one different file, but a file will take up as many clusters as it needs to to occupy the hard drive space it requires...and sometimes clusters are just not completely used by the number of bytes in the file, and part of them is empty, but still counted against total hard drive space?

...I think I followed you?

Yeah that is it.  You can imagine your clusters like a box. You label the box with what is inside, so you only put one type of thing in each box.  Like if Ghaleon's Abba collection takes up five and a half boxes, you will use up six boxes because you that remaining one half a box remaining needs a place to go.
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Before anything else, I've updated the Eternal Blue patch to version 3.



I wound up making a lot more changes than I expected:
Spoiler:
* Swapped back the Heal Litany/Calm Litany spell icons
  * Removed remaining SoA-mandated graphics censorship:
  * Pentagrams (Magic Shield spell icon, large and small teleport pads, "magic circle" spell animations)
  * Plantella/Plantarium
  * Luna flashback
* Restored Althena statue donation amounts
* Restored the Larpa mayor's fee amount
* After much handwringing, I chose to remove the new Star Dragon Tower music and replace it with the recycled Blue Tower theme that was originally used there. Honestly, I love Bill King's music and I have nothing against the track itself, but it's a violation of authorial intent (lazy though that intent may have been) and I can't leave it in in good conscience.
* Ported the tweaked font I originally made for the The Silver Star patch to this game
* Fixed an issue that caused several dialogue choice boxes to display spurious "blank" options
* Finally found and converted to mixed case the text for the Ghaleon fight in Pentagulia Shrine
* Further revised the script, fixing a few text box overflows and grammatical issues, as well as adjusting capitalization here and there
* Due to a complaint, I've put the obnoxious Working Designs credits, which were previously removed as a side effect of my sloppy editing work, back in the opening cutscene.
* One JP->US change I've purposely left as-is in this version is the altered background for window type 2. The US version is much darker than any of the other backgrounds, and from an accessibility standpoint, it's better to offer a high-contrast option for those that might want or need it. I suspect 99% of players will never change from the default background anyways.

Hopefully, I've found everything and this will be the last major revision (but who knows?).

Just in case you're still interested in that Grandia font, here it is extracted from the RAM.
Dimensions 8x15, and it's misaligned this way in memory.
This is the US version. The PAL version font reused half-width katakana for accentuated characters.

Spoiler:

Heh, they really did just copy their Lunar font, Silver symbol and all. Thanks for digging this up, but looking at it compared to my own edited font, I do agree it seems a bit more awkward -- I'm no expert on fonts, but it seems like having only one row below the baseline pretty much guarantees letters like lower case "g" will look off. I hate throwing it out after you went to all the trouble, but unless anyone objects, I'd rather stick with my edited version here.

Awesome, I will give it a go. It is also an issue with Popful Mail and Vay.

February 23, 2017, 05:50:36 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Test 4 works perfectly. At least for the opening and bgm. Thanks

Okay, great! I'll fix the other games and get new versions of the patches up ASAP. Thanks a ton for testing on hardware, and let me know if you run into any more issues.

Test 4 worked for me sound-wise, but now all the letters are back in caps lock. :| Um...

I did something wrong...deleted some file I wasn't supposed to I'll wager
I've been kind of out of it lately :/

Well, changing the CUE sheet shouldn't be able to do that unless you renamed your original, unpatched ISO to "LunarTheSilverStarUnWorked_01.iso". Maybe something like that happened accidentally? (The CUE has nothing to do with the patch content, it's basically just a list of files.)

chrisw80

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Okay, great! I'll fix the other games and get new versions of the patches up ASAP. Thanks a ton for testing on hardware, and let me know if you run into any more issues.

Awesome, no problem with testing it on my end. Looking forward to the fixed cue sheets for Popful Mail and Vay. Plan to play through Popful Mail as soon as it is posted and I get it burned to disc. Thanks again!

February 24, 2017, 06:14:26 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Started a new game on Lunar 2 and the audio is way out of sync during the opening. Think the original US opening will do, but your call.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 06:16:34 pm by chrisw80 »

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Awesome, no problem with testing it on my end. Looking forward to the fixed cue sheets for Popful Mail and Vay. Plan to play through Popful Mail as soon as it is posted and I get it burned to disc. Thanks again!

February 24, 2017, 06:14:26 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Started a new game on Lunar 2 and the audio is way out of sync during the opening. Think the original US opening will do, but your call.

I'll put up the updated patch ZIPs later, but here are the other updated CUEs if you want to go ahead and try them:

Popful Mail
Vay

If anyone cares about the PCECD patches, they appear to have correct CUEs already.

The issue with the Eternal Blue opening is more serious. That game doesn't use CD audio for anything except the ending credits, so it can't be a CUE issue, and everything syncs properly in Fusion. It sounds like this is some hardware quirk that older emulators aren't handling correctly, which means it'll probably be hard to fix.

I've made an alternate version of the patch that uses the US intro that you can try. If that still doesn't work right, then we really have a problem.

vivify93

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Lunar 2 v3 works well on GenesisPlusGX for Wii as well. So it might be an emulation issue. I wish I could help on the real hardware bit, but it should all be fine for emulator-users for the time being.
All my life I've tried to fight what history has given me.

chrisw80

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I'll put up the updated patch ZIPs later, but here are the other updated CUEs if you want to go ahead and try them:

Popful Mail
Vay

If anyone cares about the PCECD patches, they appear to have correct CUEs already.

The issue with the Eternal Blue opening is more serious. That game doesn't use CD audio for anything except the ending credits, so it can't be a CUE issue, and everything syncs properly in Fusion. It sounds like this is some hardware quirk that older emulators aren't handling correctly, which means it'll probably be hard to fix.

I've made an alternate version of the patch that uses the US intro that you can try. If that still doesn't work right, then we really have a problem.

The issue is still present with the US intro. The audio doesn't get as out of sync during the first part and the credits are perfect, but the last part goes way out of sync. I also tried it on a Model 1 Sega CD and a Model 2 Sega CD, just to make sure it wasn't a hardware issue. Can't believe the Model 1 is nearing 25 years old.

Popful Mail and Vay's audio is now working perfectly, thanks. I also have a PC Engine Duo-R and will test out Exile 1&2

February 24, 2017, 11:10:45 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Exile 1&2 Un-Worked, working as intended. Audio and all.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 11:10:45 pm by chrisw80 »

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Per the above discussion, I've updated the Lunar TSS, Popful Mail, and Vay patches to fix the CD audio sync issues. (Eternal Blue was already fine in that respect.) Get them here:

Lunar: The Silver Star v1
Popful Mail v3
Vay v1

The issue is still present with the US intro. The audio doesn't get as out of sync during the first part and the credits are perfect, but the last part goes way out of sync. I also tried it on a Model 1 Sega CD and a Model 2 Sega CD, just to make sure it wasn't a hardware issue. Can't believe the Model 1 is nearing 25 years old.

Popful Mail and Vay's audio is now working perfectly, thanks. I also have a PC Engine Duo-R and will test out Exile 1&2

February 24, 2017, 11:10:45 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Exile 1&2 Un-Worked, working as intended. Audio and all.

For the Exile games: Whew, glad something's gone right in all this.

With regard to the Eternal Blue syncing issues, the possibility that comes to my mind is that the cutscene progression could have been hardcoded against the expected disc seek times. I know that in some cases, such as Popful Mail, the ISO filesystem was optimized to put the most common files at the start of the disc where they could be reached faster. Since these patches rebuild the filesystem, and I haven't taken care to try to preserve the exact structure, it's plausible that the seek times changed significantly, which might not have an effect on emulators but would obviously affect real hardware. This would explain why the synchronization varies as the game goes through the different cutscene files.

If you don't mind burning one more CD, could you try seeing what this patch does on real hardware? This is just the vanilla US Eternal Blue rebuilt into a new ISO without any changes, then converted to a patch. If the audio is still out of sync in the intro, that would strongly support my theory. Otherwise, I guess it's back to the drawing board.

Regardless of that, I should look into setting up the filesystems to more closely match the originals. If nothing else, it'll help load times in some games.

Thanks a whole bunch for testing all these -- it really help me out!

chrisw80

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Yep, still out of sync. I am grateful for these patches though, nonetheless. I have been looking to replay these games, and these make for the perfect opportunity to do so. Thanks again.