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Author Topic: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project  (Read 273650 times)

DrDimension

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #480 on: May 15, 2017, 05:16:43 pm »
I don't think even Working Designs would approve that one...

Blackiris

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #481 on: May 15, 2017, 06:03:49 pm »
No one needs to approve this because it's a totally valid translation. The Japanese phrase doesn't take itself very seriously (すんげ isn't something a normal Japanese would ever say) – the opposite, in fact. And it is clear that "da bomb" isn't meant to be taken seriously, either. I imagine this reflects the half-humorous tone in which the creators talk about the game quite well, considering the whole Dr. P.H. Chada thing. Personally, I find it quite delightful.

But rest assured, I doubt you will find phrases like this one in the game.

Aeana

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #482 on: May 15, 2017, 06:29:33 pm »
I hope you guys don't have the wrong idea about this series. It's not remotely super serious.

VicVergil

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #483 on: May 15, 2017, 07:12:28 pm »
"It's da bomb!"

Oh dear god...

Please don't let that be a reflection of the quality of the translation...

First of all, it's actually a proper translation of the Japanese text. It was translated after the main game, whose main script was ready for a long time.

Second,
Tom isn't the Working Designs type going from his previous works, and is very mindful of the differences in tone when it comes to translating. After all, this is the same guy who gave you the subtly different interpreter dialogues in Ao no Tengai, and is a big fan of the series who has a big deal of respect to the original text, something refreshing these days.
Considering TM:Zero is more on the serious and epic side with some occasional comedy scenes with Akamaru / Fortune Cat Robo, compared to the rest of the series where it's usually the opposite, that awareness of context is sort of needed lest you end up with deliveries that are completely off (Fire Emblem Fates in particular comes to mind). Ouji Hiroi (or P.H. Chada, if you prefer) said in interviews they worked a lot on this balance of comedic timing and eventful playthroughs, at least in Manjimaru/Kabuki Fuuden and probably this one too.

In short, this translation couldn't have better translators and beta testers than the ones it has right now. It's in good hands.

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #484 on: May 16, 2017, 12:41:18 am »
Dr. Dimension, first let me say that I understand your concern completely. From your perspective, it could seem that I'm just making up the line and trying to spin it into something it's not, like I'm trying to make the script sound funky for a laugh. I can assure you that I'm not.

Let me explain the Japanese used: "sunge" is an extremely crude and casual form of sugoi (which in this case means "very much, a great deal, a lot.") "Omoshiroi" means: "interesting /  funny."

A barebones, lifeless translation might render this as: "It's very interesting!"

But because the word "sunge" is used instead of "sugoi" or "sugoku," the phrase is meant to appear in a cruder form of the vernacular. It's intended to be a silly way of saying "It's very interesting!" (In other words, the barebones translation comes off as way too prim and proper to reflect the original Japanese line.) Considering the fact that this game was published in Dec. of '95, I decided to use 90's era slang (that means the same thing, essentially) to give that "crude / silly" edge to the wording that's used in Japanese.

In other words, I didn't pull the line out of thin air. I translated it with absolute care.

If you are still upset about the phrase even after hearing my explanation, don't worry.

It doesn't actually appear in the game itself.  :)

midget35

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #485 on: May 16, 2017, 04:30:32 am »
The care that is going into this translation... I am so proud of you guys. Keep up the ridiculously good work :)

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #486 on: May 16, 2017, 08:54:46 am »
The care that is going into this translation... I am so proud of you guys. Keep up the ridiculously good work :)

Thanks for the kind words, midget35!

I hope you guys don't have the wrong idea about this series. It's not remotely super serious.

Actually, the series can get pretty heavy at times. Manjimaru in particular had scenes with choking and dismemberment... And this may come as a shock, but I think Zero is the darkest of them all. Although it's nowhere near as visually graphic as Manjimaru's infamous Kinu scene, it has some very seriously twisted and taboo content that I would have never expected to see on a Nintendo console. Don't let the colorful graphics fool you. Zero has some content that will most likely make people feel uncomfortable. (If Japan's CERO rating system had been introduced before this game came out, I doubt it would have been released in its current state.) If it had been given an official release back in the day, it would have been censored for sure.

That said, it also has its share of lighthearted moments. Although I didn't ADD any poop or fart jokes (Working Designs style), there were several poop jokes that were already in the Japanese script (and one fart joke). Rest assured, they were there from the start!

VicVergil

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #487 on: May 16, 2017, 09:23:07 am »
Thanks for the kind words, midget35!

Actually, the series can get pretty heavy at times. Manjimaru in particular had scenes with choking and dismemberment... And this may come as a shock, but I think Zero is the darkest of them all. Although it's nowhere near as visually graphic as Manjimaru's infamous Kinu scene, it has some very seriously twisted and taboo content that I would have never expected to see on a Nintendo console. Don't let the colorful graphics fool you. Zero has some content that will most likely make people feel uncomfortable. (If Japan's CERO rating system had been introduced before this game came out, I doubt it would have been released in its current state.) If it had been given an official release back in the day, it would have been censored for sure.

That said, it also has its share of lighthearted moments. Although I didn't ADD any poop or fart jokes (Working Designs style), there were several poop jokes that were already in the Japanese script (and one fart joke). Rest assured, they were there from the start!

That's really intriguing.
I know of the
-redacted spoiler tag 1-
but I don't know which parts you meant were in TMZ would be too much even for Nintendo of Japan at the time (which did some censorship of their own notably for ports from Japanese computers, not to be confused with NoA, but that was mainly about sexual themes either explicit or in the plot or particularly twisted violence).
-redacted spoiler tag 2- seem like standard RPG fare at the time. Unless I'm missing something? (edit: yes)

Oh and yeah, Manjimaru was dark for more reasons than just that "execution" scene
-redacted spoiler tag 3, just in case-
And boy didn't it shy away from blood and body horror, or showing the suffering of the various villages ravaged by the Root Clan. It's one of the perks of developing for the PC Engine considering NEC were the most desperate for third party support at the time and relaxed their censorship accordingly.

Fuun Kabuki Den is the more comedic one in the series but it's not without some serious and at times heavy themes. The Apocalypse is ridiculous but past halfways through the game the mood suddenly becomes overwhelmingly heavy, but that might have to do with its rushed nature considering the other games had a much better balance.

EDIT: Removed three sections (that were originally behind spoiler tags, but are now completely purged just to be safe) listing objectionable stuff happening in-game that could cause CERO to request this game to be censored further. It wasn't exhaustive anyways so anyone interested is not missing much.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 11:06:05 am by GHANMI »

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #488 on: May 16, 2017, 10:23:35 am »
Ghanmi, if you could, please cut the spoilers from your post, even though they are marked. I think they are too tempting for people to read, and I don't want people to be spoiled.

And yes, you are missing a few things.

Recapnation

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #489 on: May 16, 2017, 11:00:05 am »
All I ask in return is that people refer to the game as either "Tengai Makyou Zero" or "Far East of Eden: Tengai Makyou Zero," and definitely not Far East of Eden Zero.

(Far East of Eden is not the title of the game series, it's just the name of the book that some of the games [not all] are "based on.")

Even "Far East of Eden: Tengai Makyou Zero" isn't correct, either, as far as officialness is considered. The one and only title for the game is "Tengai Makyou Zero"; the "Far East of Eden" part is just ornamental text, no matter if it's indeed meaningful. Ornamental phrasing for logos is something Japanese do quite often yet it's a thing Westerners fail to grasp after all these years for some reason.

(Congrats for finishing the project. Are the original version of the hi-res cover scans available too?)

VicVergil

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #490 on: May 16, 2017, 11:17:46 am »
And done.
I realized spoiler tags on this forum are visible just hovering the mouse pointer over them, so yes, they'd have to go.

And yes, you are missing a few things.
That's nice to hear... Frankly surprising how a high profile release would manage to sneak in stuff pushing the envelope in terms of what's acceptable by NCL's guidelines. Maybe that's one reason besides emulation issues for this game not being re-released in Japan (afaik all other Tengai Makyou rereleases bar the fighters had some cut or rewritten text, and that alone would break the CRC check - and I suspect if it's a more involved hacking work, Hudson/Nintendo wouldn't want anything to do with it)
I can't wait to play it and see for myself without half the message going over my head. (I'm not polishing my nihongo-fu as well as I should be.)

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #491 on: May 16, 2017, 05:22:11 pm »
Even "Far East of Eden: Tengai Makyou Zero" isn't correct, either, as far as officialness is considered. The one and only title for the game is "Tengai Makyou Zero"; the "Far East of Eden" part is just ornamental text, no matter if it's indeed meaningful. Ornamental phrasing for logos is something Japanese do quite often yet it's a thing Westerners fail to grasp after all these years for some reason.

Yes, that's true.

The title of the game is Tengai Makyou Zero. But it doesn't bother me if people include it with the title, so long as they don't drop the Tengai Makyou part. That's what really disappoints me. It's like if people called the first Persona game "Revelations" or "Megami Ibunroku" and dropped the actual Persona part.

Edit: Actually, a more valid Far East of Eden comparison would be if someone referred to the first Persona game as "Be Your True Mind" (because that appeared on the Japanese cover).

Quote
(Congrats for finishing the project. Are the original version of the hi-res cover scans available too?)

They're probably out there somewhere. Someone sent them to me directly, as I don't have a scanner.

By the way, thanks for cutting the spoilers, Ghanmi.

And I hope you enjoy finding the surprising bits that you missed when you play the game in English.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 06:21:51 pm by Tom »

niuus

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #492 on: May 16, 2017, 11:34:10 pm »
The change is only one line (or very few depending on the emulator) in the code, but it needs a recompilation.
After the release I'll give the instructions on how to update the mapping on emulators. The only problem is the recompilation, because the change is trivial.

May i know what this change is and where to insert it? I would gladly recompile and post a build for Snes 9x GX Wii :beer:
https://github.com/dborth/snes9xgx

DougRPG, Tom & company, thanks for your hard work on this translation. I am very eager to play it since i am a lucky owner of an original copy for this Super Famicom game.

chicco30

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #493 on: May 17, 2017, 11:47:43 am »
May i know what this change is and where to insert it? I would gladly recompile and post a build for Snes 9x GX Wii :beer:
https://github.com/dborth/snes9xgx

DougRPG, Tom & company, thanks for your hard work on this translation. I am very eager to play it since i am a lucky owner of an original copy for this Super Famicom game.

Very nice. You gave me some hope i can enjoy this great translation on consoles :) After release of the translation can you compile the Snes9X Xbox360 or Ps3 version too?
My opinion is that play this great game on PC its like take a shower in sockets :) Its a sin, because the Tengai Makyou Zero is a REAL console game.

Pennywise

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #494 on: May 17, 2017, 12:31:49 pm »
I didn't think I still had the scans, but it seems I uploaded them several years ago.

http://yojimbo.eludevisibility.org/Stuff/EDEN.rar

dejan07

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #495 on: May 17, 2017, 02:13:00 pm »
The title of the game is Tengai Makyou Zero. But it doesn't bother me if people include it with the title, so long as they don't drop the Tengai Makyou part.

If the game was published in the West i doubt they would include Tengai Makyou in the title.
They would probably change it to Super Far East of Eden - The Beginning or Kabuki Quest or even better just the 72 MBits Super Quest.


May 17, 2017, 02:28:35 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Its a sin, because the Tengai Makyou Zero is a REAL console game.

I don't own SNES, cartridge not even an old TV. Can you borrow me everything for a month?
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 02:28:35 pm by dejan07 »

darthhelcius

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #496 on: May 17, 2017, 02:13:22 pm »
I would love to play this game in a console, too! I have the Super Famicom original cartridge and it's one of my all time favorite RPGs! I've been waiting for this translation for years, and it would be amazing be able to play this gem in a real console!! :D

xZabuzax

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #497 on: May 17, 2017, 02:50:00 pm »
I have a question, I know this has been asked before but I don't feel like going through the whole thread to find the answer.

When the english patch is released, on which emulator or version of the emulator will the english patch work? Will it work on a modified version of: Snes9X, Bsnes, Higan...?

If possible, I would love to play this on Snes9X because that's the emulator I'm using, I've tried the other emulators but I don't like them because they are missing some features that Snes9X have like the ability to configure the whole emulator to your liking via hotkeys.

KingMike

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #498 on: May 17, 2017, 03:46:45 pm »
I do agree if it had gotten a western release in 1996, they would've changed the title to something with English words in it, or at least the Japanese words left in would be words generally understood by English speakers. :) (whereas now publishers are more open to localizing games with Japanese titles left intact. Shin Megami Tensei III in 2003 was probably one of the earliest to do that.)
"My watch says 30 chickens" Google, 2018

DrDimension

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #499 on: May 17, 2017, 04:55:10 pm »
If you don't want people to distribute the ROM file as "Far East of Eden Zero" or some such, please give an official translation for the name Tengai Makyou.

It's kind of an important part of the translation! :)