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Author Topic: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project  (Read 262071 times)

DrDimension

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #520 on: May 19, 2017, 09:09:27 pm »
You don't have to make a literal translation of the name in order to translate it. There are many non-literal translations of the game's title that are not being explored at all. Dunno why.

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #521 on: May 19, 2017, 09:22:00 pm »
The reason why I didn't go the creative route is because I was only asked to explain what the words actually mean.

I'm not trying to create a brand new name for the games. They already have one: Tengai Makyou.

DrDimension

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #522 on: May 19, 2017, 09:33:55 pm »
Why not ask the community for their suggestions?

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #523 on: May 19, 2017, 09:42:04 pm »
I just saw someone who was wondering about what the words meant, and I responded to them.

I saw no need to ask the community for help coming with many different, non-literal ways of translating the title when A) it wasn't what was being discussed, and B) I have no intention of using a non-literal (or literal) translation anyway.

It's just going to be Tengai Makyou.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 10:22:26 pm by Tom »

DrDimension

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #524 on: May 19, 2017, 10:32:20 pm »
And definitely don't bother to solicit the community for feedback about whether the name should be translated.

And then try to tell everyone to use the game name that YOU specify.

It's your world, we're just walking through it, eh?

d557charger

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #525 on: May 19, 2017, 10:45:28 pm »
Ah, so 境 has the connotation of cave in relations to Zen - that explains why that idea wouldn't be in the Korean/Chinese meaning for the character (no Zen over here) - thanks!  I was reading it as "The Demon Nation beyond the realm of the heavens" or something like that, which is why I thought "Far East of Eden" carried, in a poetic way, a similar meaning ("The pagan nation outside of Christendom" for our fictional author). I've never played any of the games (which is why I'm lurking here all the time).


Also, I didn't mean to make a problem about the title, as I said above:
>>"As often as not these titles were not translations of the Japanese name (example Secret of Mana rather than "Legend of the Holy Sword", Link to the Past vs "Triforce of the Gods"). So if Tom went that route, it could potentially turn into a real fight over what would "best characterize" the game."


Tom's not trying to play the part of a 1990's Nintendo of America marketing team, he's just trying to give us a faithful translation so we can enjoy a world from far outside of our language skills. :)  Leaving it alone is the best way to ensure "cohesion" 20 years from now when we scroll down our roms list and theres multiple games from the series from mulitple teams in it.


It is Tom's World, and we are just walking through it. he's using his own time and energy to create something nice for others who can't read japanese. That means he has every right to decide on the name.  He's not getting paid, nor are any of the others involved in the project. He's bringing something into our lives that would otherwise never have existed, and I'd say that means he gets to name his baby.

Spinner 8

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #526 on: May 19, 2017, 10:46:04 pm »
And definitely don't bother to solicit the community for feedback about whether the name should be translated.

And then try to tell everyone to use the game name that YOU specify.

It's your world, we're just walking through it, eh?

It's his translation, that's for sure. I think the typical response in this case is "feel free to translate the game yourself, and you can title it whatever you'd like".

Or you can make your own title screen hack afterward if you (clearly) feel so strongly about it... this approach is not without precedent.

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #527 on: May 19, 2017, 11:03:02 pm »
And definitely don't bother to solicit the community for feedback about whether the name should be translated.

And then try to tell everyone to use the game name that YOU specify.

It's your world, we're just walking through it, eh?

Did I hurt your feelings in a past life, or something? I don't know why you're copping an attitude and resorting to such hyperbole.

All I did was provide a translation and respond to the question.

Now to address your complaint: if I stopped and asked everybody what they thought of every single word and term in the game as I had translated it, there would be a hundred different opinions, and the text could never be finalized, because nobody will ever agree about every single thing.

And what's more, the graphics hacking is already done. Not just in-game, but the box and manual have already had the title edited. Saying that they won't be changed is not being done out of arrogance on my part. The fact of the matter is, suddenly changing the title would affect far too many people who've already invested a great deal of time into the project... And there's nothing wrong with the title, as it is now. There's no pressing reason to change it.

Changing the title to something else would affect Flash PV, who would have to redo the main title, the intro logo, and the save screen graphics. DougRPG would have to reinsert them. Cargodin would have to remake the manual and box. The beta testers would have to double check all of it.

A lot of people are involved, so please don't try to spin this into me being disrespectful to the community. I have not been disrespectful to anyone here.

tc

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #528 on: May 19, 2017, 11:50:24 pm »
And definitely don't bother to solicit the community for feedback about whether the name should be translated.

And then try to tell everyone to use the game name that YOU specify.

It's your world, we're just walking through it, eh?

If you want to translate another game in the series with your own name, go ahead. Far East of Eden Kabuki DrDimension The Apocalypse is a great idea. ;)

Joking aside I can relate to the point here. I too might've suggested trying to find a name that'd have been used on the SNES back in 1996, were we not so close to the end of the project.

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #529 on: May 20, 2017, 12:19:53 am »
I too might've suggested trying to find a name that'd have been used on the SNES back in 1996, were we not so close to the end of the project.

It's never been my intent to make the game seem as though it had been released on the Super NES back in 1996. The packaging alone should tell you that much. There's a reason the package has been left as a Super Famicom game box.

There are elements of the game and the translation that you simply would not have seen had they been given an official translation on the Super NES. It would have been censored. If I wanted to make the game be entirely true to the era, to make it seem like it had been released in English back in the day, it would take a lot more than a title change. It would require several substantial cuts to the story and even the graphics, and my goal is to provide an uncut experience with the Japanese game.

patuli

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #530 on: May 20, 2017, 01:19:04 am »
The only problem I see here, is that anyone looking for info when googling: "Tengai Makyou Zero" will get Far East of Eden Zero, as result!
btw any recommend paper guide to import?
Congratulation in finishing the work, to all the people involded in this!

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #531 on: May 20, 2017, 01:47:02 am »
Google's just linking up to Wikipedia, and Wikipedia can change at the drop of a hat.

Also, I'm sorry, but I don't know what you mean by a "paper guide to import."

Are you talking about a guidebook for Tengai Makyou Zero?

I don't have it myself, but I did find this one online for a very good price:

http://search.rakuten.co.jp/search/mall/%E5%A4%A9%E5%A4%96%E9%AD%94%E5%A2%83zero+%E6%94%BB%E7%95%A5%E6%9C%AC/

VicVergil

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #532 on: May 20, 2017, 02:54:19 am »
Why not ask the community for their suggestions?
You don't have to make a literal translation of the name in order to translate it. There are many non-literal translations of the game's title that are not being explored at all. Dunno why.
And definitely don't bother to solicit the community for feedback about whether the name should be translated.

And then try to tell everyone to use the game name that YOU specify.

It's your world, we're just walking through it, eh?

1/ If you want to ask for something, the least you could do is not acting entitled as if people owe it to you.

2/ Ever since 2012 and even before that with the Ao no Tengai project, Tom clarified FEoE and Tengai Makyou, while close semantically, are different enough in scope not to be interchangeable. As well as being pretty satisfied with keeping the Tengai Makyou title. He sure didn't "solicit the community for feedback about whether the name should be translated".
It's YOUR concern, and the least you could do is bear its responsibility rather than have someone else bear it for you, this someone else being the very same person you're voicing these demands to.

3/ The game's name IS Tengai Makyou Zero, it's not a fabrication "specified" by Tom that only exists in "his world".
Nor does he have to change it to some made up title that doesn't represent the original intent, or to how it should have been in an "official" "professional" "localization".
There's no pressing need for this. Even publishers changing names often do it for reasons like marketability, not just for the hell of it.
If this much faithfulness to the original material is too much for you to bear, there's so much more "problematic" content that would need to be "adjusted" as well. Why even bother if it's so unsuitable and want it to be something it never was. Japanese samurai soap operas aren't adapted to Korean laws with a massive 4Kids on steroids airbrushing job, they simply don't export them.

4/ This is a fan project first and foremost by some people crazy about a certain obscure JRPG series. They're not being paid, they're not on a deadline and they're not bound to market considerations.
Furthermore, there's the intention for this translation to represent the Japanese game as its utmost priority.
I don't get why you think this is synonymous with development with a creative committee and focus testers overseeing the whole thing and overriding whatever decisions and choices they have. What "community" are you even talking about?
And why do you get the idea that this project must please everyone more than fulfilling its core mission?

patuli

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #533 on: May 20, 2017, 10:31:52 am »
Google's just linking up to Wikipedia, and Wikipedia can change at the drop of a hat.

Also, I'm sorry, but I don't know what you mean by a "paper guide to import."

Are you talking about a guidebook for Tengai Makyou Zero?

I don't have it myself, but I did find this one online for a very good price:

http://search.rakuten.co.jp/search/mall/%E5%A4%A9%E5%A4%96%E9%AD%94%E5%A2%83zero+%E6%94%BB%E7%95%A5%E6%9C%AC/

that's the only one I have found, the other two results are and extremely expensive telephone card and some manga
I will try to buy that guide, whit a game as big as this, I was expecting some printed perfect guides, but guess not!

rainponcho

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #534 on: May 20, 2017, 10:57:03 am »
Quote
The only problem I see here, is that anyone looking for info when googling: "Tengai Makyou Zero" will get Far East of Eden Zero, as result!

I think it will be okay. People will learn to call the English translation itself "Tengai Makyou Zero". And others will eventually figure out that "FEoEZ" <==> TMZ. Maybe google will change its mind too after enough news articles, videos, comments about this once in a lifetime epic undertaking of a project.

And if someone translates it to another language, they can opt for another title.
(evil laugh)


Earthbound - Mother
Secret of Mana - Seiken Densetsu - Final Fantasy Adventure
Final Fantasy Legend - Romancing SaGa
Megaman - Rockman
7th Saga - Elnard - {Mystic Ark} - {"~~7th Saga 2~~"}
Contra - Kontora - Probotector
Vega - (M.) Balrog - (M.) Bison
Final Fantasy II / IV, Final Fantasy III / VI


Even if they don't care to find the alternate names, google will be there to help out some mysterious day. :mrgreen:


(unrelated side-comment)
And well Tom has spent the (most) time studying the actual game content and side-stories to it; what makes the driving fearless "leader" happy is healthy. I would want to be supportive for Tom to remain positively morally uplifting in the community's future. :applause:

dejan07

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #535 on: May 20, 2017, 12:55:21 pm »
The most people know this game under the name Far East of Eden Zero and i am always using this name especially to someone who never heard of it. If you say to them Tengay Makyo it sounds to them like a Sushi meal or a spice like Teryaki.

Recapnation

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #536 on: May 20, 2017, 01:58:22 pm »
Quote
Kontora

This was never anything more than a laughable mistake by someone who just didn't know enough Japanese (or at all), for the record. The series in Japan is "Contra", much like it is "Gradius", "Twin Bee" or "Vandal Hearts". It just happened they used kanji (and a made-up pronounciation -- the language allows for that) instead of the mandatory katakana, but there's no possible way you can translate it as "kontora" unless you're transliterating as if it was a Japanese term, when it is not.



Quote
The most people know this game under the name Far East of Eden Zero and i am always using this name especially to someone who never heard of it. If you say to them Tengay Makyo it sounds to them like a Sushi meal or a spice like Teryaki.

Wow. Where are you from.

dejan07

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #537 on: May 20, 2017, 03:50:08 pm »
Vienna, capital of Austria.

Recapnation

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #538 on: May 20, 2017, 05:05:36 pm »
Ah, no worries, then. I'm sure "most people" there are aware that the best video games used to originate in Japan and that being respectful with the original, well-established name of a foreign piece is healthy and coherent. Maybe you just need to look for better educated circles?

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #539 on: May 20, 2017, 10:04:18 pm »
The most people know this game under the name Far East of Eden Zero and i am always using this name especially to someone who never heard of it. If you say to them Tengai Makyou it sounds to them like a Sushi meal or a spice like Teriyaki.

If someone has never heard of it, it's all the more reason to refer to it by its Japanese name. There is a reason people are familiar with "sushi" or "teriyaki." That's the way they first heard it. If you tell people that the name is "Tengai Makyou" when they're hearing about it for the first time, they will accept it.

Will it sound really Japanese to them? Of course it will. But the game IS Japanese, so that's natural. There's no need to protect them from supposedly unnatural-sounding Japanese names when you are telling them about it for the first time.