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Author Topic: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project  (Read 262451 times)

Recapnation

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #500 on: May 17, 2017, 05:41:01 pm »
If you don't want people to distribute the ROM file as "Far East of Eden Zero" or some such, please give an official translation for the name Tengai Makyou.

It's kind of an important part of the translation! :)
His point was indeed that he wants "Tengai Makyou" to stay like that. I'm sure he will provide a translation somewhere especially if they're doing the whole manual and whatnot, but it'd be quite silly trying to impose another title for a series like this from now on. The translation into English would sound quite worse (or "too long"), besides.

I didn't think I still had the scans, but it seems I uploaded them several years ago.

http://yojimbo.eludevisibility.org/Stuff/EDEN.rar

Nice, thanks. Got the box scans somewhere as well, perhaps?

DrDimension

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #501 on: May 17, 2017, 06:00:55 pm »
:banghead:

filler

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #502 on: May 17, 2017, 06:03:40 pm »
Call it Ten Guy Mikey-o. Change the main character's name to "Mikey". Don't ask why they call him "Ten Guy" though! :D

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #503 on: May 17, 2017, 06:56:57 pm »
Yes, as Recapnation said, my hope is that people will refer to the title using Japanese.

Kingmike said that the first game to leave the title in Japanese like this in the west was Shin Megami Tensei III on the PS2, but I think Suikoden did it even earlier on the PS1. There may have been others, too, but I'm not sure. Suikoden is the earliest that I can remember off-hand. Well, you could say that the Japanese title is actually Gensou Suikoden, but the logo is exactly the same for both the English and Japanese releases, at least for the first game.

Naturally, the manual doesn't translate the name (as the Japanese manual has no section explaining what its own name means). Do the English Shin Megami Tensei game manuals even do this? Or Suikoden? In any case, since you requested it, perhaps I'll add a small explanation in the readme, along with a note that asks them to refer to the series by its Japanese name.

Oh, Pennywise, it was you who sent the scans! Sorry about that. Thanks for reminding me. I thought it was KingMike for some reason. I guess my memory had faded. I'll make sure you're credited!

As for how people might be distributing the rom, that is beyond my control, but I'll ask DDS to make sure that the name of the patch itself refers to the Japanese name of the game, not the ornamental reference to P. H. Chada's English book.

xZabuzax: Currently, we've been running the game on bsnes as well as a hacked version of SNES9X, but it can be easily adapted to Higan by making a new file. (Doug said he could do that.) I don't know if Doug will make his version of SNES9X available, or if he will leave it up to the makers of the emulator to decide whether or not to add support. He said that pretty much any emulator can add support by making the necessary changes.

By the way, I liked dejan07's speculation about the English name, had it been given an official translation. I imagine that it would have been called Kabuki Kuest (in the Kabuki Klash tradition).

Darthhelcius and chicco30, I look forward to the day when people can play the English version of Tengai Makyou Zero on real hardware, yeah.

Oh, and filler, I would prefer to call it "Ten Guy Mock, Yo!" (Ten rappers diss each other in an epic rap battle!)

Recapnation

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #504 on: May 17, 2017, 07:20:21 pm »
I think Kabuki Danjuurou kind of starring Shin Den had a lot to do with the "Kabuki Klash" naming, which is not the case here?

Taito's Samurai Nihon-Ichi predates Suikoden by a decade, if you're counting partial transliterations:

http://flyers.arcade-museum.com/?page=flyer&db=videodb&id=932&image=1

(Though obviously that was due to the US publisher not having enough money to make "proper" changes.)

BlackMageJawa

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #505 on: May 17, 2017, 07:29:07 pm »
I don't suppose anyone knows of a SNES emulator for PSP that's likely to be capable of playing this?

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #506 on: May 17, 2017, 07:40:38 pm »
Allthough Kabuki isn't playable in Zero, he does appear in it. I think Kuest sounds ridiculous to be honest, and I hate intentional misspellings in titles.

Anyway, my comment wasn't meant to be taken seriously. I was just being goofy. ;)

niuus

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #507 on: May 17, 2017, 07:52:32 pm »
Very nice. You gave me some hope i can enjoy this great translation on consoles :) After release of the translation can you compile the Snes9X Xbox360 or Ps3 version too?
My opinion is that play this great game on PC its like take a shower in sockets :) Its a sin, because the Tengai Makyou Zero is a REAL console game.
Sure, i could give it a try  8)

xZabuzax: Currently, we've been running the game on bsnes as well as a hacked version of SNES9X, but it can be easily adapted to Higan by making a new file. (Doug said he could do that.) I don't know if Doug will make his version of SNES9X available, or if he will leave it up to the makers of the emulator to decide whether or not to add support. He said that pretty much any emulator can add support by making the necessary changes.
I can recompile Snes9x GX for Wii, just point me to the change :beer:
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 08:02:19 pm by niuus »

xZabuzax

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #508 on: May 17, 2017, 08:02:27 pm »
xZabuzax: Currently, we've been running the game on bsnes as well as a hacked version of SNES9X, but it can be easily adapted to Higan by making a new file. (Doug said he could do that.) I don't know if Doug will make his version of SNES9X available, or if he will leave it up to the makers of the emulator to decide whether or not to add support. He said that pretty much any emulator can add support by making the necessary changes.

I see, thanks for clearing that up mate!

I really hope Doug releases his Snes9X version that supports this english patch, I really don't want to use the other emulators but if it can't be helped then I guess I will be forced to use Bsnes.

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #509 on: May 17, 2017, 10:07:49 pm »
Sure, i could give it a try  8)
I can recompile Snes9x GX for Wii, just point me to the change :beer:

You should ask DougRPG how it's done. It's beyond me!

I couldn't get his SNES9X hack to work on my computer, but one tester could. It kept hassling me about a dll file, or something.

Mugi

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #510 on: May 17, 2017, 10:11:13 pm »
I don't suppose anyone knows of a SNES emulator for PSP that's likely to be capable of playing this?

to my knowledge, a port of snes9x exists for psp, and as it was stated earlier, it takes one line of changes to the code to get the game work, so if the source of the psp port is available or someone knows where to reach the dev, it should be doable.
In PSP we trust.

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #511 on: May 17, 2017, 10:17:30 pm »
I don't suppose anyone knows of a SNES emulator for PSP that's likely to be capable of playing this?

As Mugi said, there is an SNES9X emulator for PSP, but it can't run TM Zero in English without modification. DougRPG shouild be able to tell people how to modify the emulators to be able to run it.

That said, PSP and Vita's SNES emulation can be pretty choppy. I'm talking ten frames per second. It might be kinda disappointing.

KingMike

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #512 on: May 18, 2017, 12:14:00 am »
Kingmike said that the first game to leave the title in Japanese like this in the west was Shin Megami Tensei III on the PS2, but I think Suikoden did it even earlier on the PS1. There may have been others, too, but I'm not sure. Suikoden is the earliest that I can remember off-hand. Well, you could say that the Japanese title is actually Gensou Suikoden, but the logo is exactly the same for both the English and Japanese releases, at least for the first game.
I've guessed Gensou Suikoden was to differentiate itself from the Koei series. Or maybe "Suikoden" alone was a rather generic title to the Japanese? (Namco didn't have a problem making a Sangokushi game on the Famicom despite Koei's games existing on the console.)
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Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #513 on: May 18, 2017, 10:06:32 am »
I've guessed Gensou Suikoden was to differentiate itself from the Koei series. Or maybe "Suikoden" alone was a rather generic title to the Japanese? (Namco didn't have a problem making a Sangokushi game on the Famicom despite Koei's games existing on the console.)

Suikoden originally is a famous Chinese book about heroes throughout China. I'm guessing that the Koei property must actually be based on the book, thus no change was necessary. However the Konami property was an original story, so they added Gensou to make it clear that it was an original story in a fantasy RPG sort of world, not set in China. That would explain it.

travel27

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #514 on: May 18, 2017, 07:08:47 pm »
Do you think this will work on the android Snes9x EX emulator?

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #515 on: May 18, 2017, 10:38:21 pm »
Do you think this will work on the android Snes9x EX emulator?
Without being specifically hacked to run the English version of the game, no.

Right now it obviously wouldn't run it, but if the emulator is hacked to play the game in the future, then yes.

d557charger

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #516 on: May 19, 2017, 08:45:40 am »
I just wanted to chime in and say that it will feel a bit less like a game from the 90s without it having an English title. I'm a big language nerd myself, and personally love studying Korean and Hanja (Korean word for Kanji). Still, I am probably going to either make up a name based on content or translation for use with friends... my friends who I've talked to about this have already reverted to calling it FEOEZ... :(


That said, I do understand and agree with you for not wanted to make an official one. As often as not these titles were not translations of the Japanese name (example Secret of Mana rather than "Legend of the Holy Sword", Link to the Past vs "Triforce of the Gods"). So if you went that route, it could potentially turn into a real fight over what would "best characterize" the game. And as for using the Japanese name but in English, "Devil's country" or "Demon Land" (I see in the wikipedia for the game 境 is translated as cave but in Korean that character just means territory?) both sound super garrish. In a way, Far East of Eden does carry the same meaning - a land far from or "outside of" heaven "天外"   (just fyi, the Korean reading is "CheonOe MaGyeong" (Oe is pronounced "way" -- just following standard Romanization its "oe" ). Haha, guess I found what I'll call it for fun! :) 


Anyway, I just wanted to say I support your decisions, and the main reason this translation exists is because of your persistance over the last few years, so you have every right to decide. I'm sure most of us hard core players are all in to use the Japanese name too... but the wider audience you deserve to have play and experience this might find the Japanese Title hard (it is kind of hard to say or to remember the English spelling of), and as a result, I think its pretty likely the ROM could end up renamed just like the Wikipedia Article.


Also, thanks again for your work. Watching this get finished over the past few months has really given me the motivation to power through my semster at Uni, 4 weeks left!

darthhelcius

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #517 on: May 19, 2017, 04:05:43 pm »
I personally love the title being the japanense name...to me "Tengai Makyou Zero" sounds super cool as a game title!! Actually that's how I've been referring this game since my first contact with it (I only learned about the "Far East of Eden" thing much later).

d557charger

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #518 on: May 19, 2017, 08:23:16 pm »
I also like the name. Above someone discussed that the ROMs would possibly be renamed with English, and I also think that's probably likely, noting that it is a strong possibility, but saying I support Tom's decision too.

I can see both sides. Even though I'd been checking on this translation since around 2007, even this past fall I had to look up "Far East of Eden Zero" to get the correct spelling again. That's when it hit me - in the 10 years since, I've learned a few hundred "Chinese Characters" - at least the Korean readings/meaning(and the meanings are usually pretty similar across the board). I had to look up the 3rd, meaning demon or devil, and now, for me, having the characters to "anchor" the spelling to, remembering it is no problem, and I think Tengai Makyou Zero is a cool name!

But that's also kind of a problem, since it took me reading and looking up one of the Kanji for me to remember and appreciate the name. For most of the audience an English translation is going to reach, Tengai Makyou is going to be a meaningless blob of vowels and consonents. Which is a shame, but a reality. I think it'd be cool if Tom made a little translation thing about the name in the manual, like 天, (ten) = heaven, 外, (gai) = outside (of), is the character used for gaijin, outsider/foreignor, etc. But again, a lot of people aren't going to read the manual - it would be cool for some subset of the crowd though!

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #519 on: May 19, 2017, 08:57:51 pm »
The reason why it should not be called Far East of Eden is because "Far East of Eden" is only used on titles that take place in Jipang. Not all of the games in the Tengai series do. "Tengai Makyou Daiyon no Mokushiroku: The Apocalypse IV" doesn't include Far East of Eden on the title screen or packaging for this very reason. So while it is a Tengai Makyou game, it doesn't fall under the Far East of Eden umbrella. I mean, the game is set in America. It should not be called "Far East." (If anything, it is Far West.) The other game that doesn't feature Far East of Eden on the cover, Oriental Blue: Ao no Tengai, is also a part of the Tengai series, but it not only doesn't take place in Jipang, in fact it doesn't even take place on planet Earth. (I have read so many articles online that incorrectly claim the game takes place in Jipang, but it's simply not true.)

That said, perhaps people will change when they see the title screen. On the Japanese packaging, the only thing that they can see and understand is the small bit of ornamental English text at the top, so they latch onto that. In the translated screen, "Tengai Makyou" is written in the largest font, so maybe that will influence them. I will use the phrase "Ten Guy Mock, Yo" in the read me file as way to teach people how to say the title out loud, along with the translated meaning of Tengai Makyou. I won't put it in the manual, though. Just the read me. The manual is supposed to be an English recreation of the Japanese manual, so I didn't change anything that would break that illusion. There were a few changes from the Japanese manual, but nothing substantial.

On wikipedia, Makyou (as the zen term) was translated as "ghost cave" or "devil's cave" (with its own religious implications) but as you might guess from the character's meaning, "territory," the word has other definitions besides the zen one. It can be defined as "the demonic realm" (in other words hell), making it "The Demonic Realm Outside the Heavens" (which is still a mouthful). While this phrase doesn't really seem to have much to do with Ziria (the first game in the series), it is strongly linked to Zero's plot.

Good luck with the rest of your studies!

I hope that people grow used to the Japanese title, as they did with Suikoden or Shin Megami Tensei.