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Author Topic: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project  (Read 246532 times)

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #120 on: January 17, 2017, 01:13:31 am »
This is looking super sharp! I can't wait until this is out.

Do you think it would work on a reproduction cart as well?

In it's current form, I don't think it would work on a reproduction cart, due to the way it uses an xml file to... do something related to the graphics. (Not sure about all of the technical stuff.) I might be wrong. I don't know if the xml file will be required for the final release. There may have also been some sort of special chip needed to get it to run? Maybe it will be perfectly playable on a real system, but I have my doubts. (I'm usually wrong about this sort of thing, though.)

The packaging and manual will be fully translated and made available regardless of whether or not the game can actually be made into a full package. Worst case scenario, you can make a box, manual, and inserts, but put a USB drive inside, instead of a cart. ;)

PunkFrog

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #121 on: January 17, 2017, 01:31:05 am »
I seem to have terrible luck with emulators, so I'm praying that it will work on a cart. Sometimes the games slow down, or they don't save, or they just crash outright. Why does the xml work on Japanese cartridges (i.e. the original release) and not American ones?


Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #122 on: January 17, 2017, 02:59:47 am »
The xml only works on the patched rom, not the original Japanese cartridges. I think i shows where the new graphics are stored, or something. (I might be mistaken.)

If I try to run an unpatched Japanese Tengai Makyou Zero rom with the xml file, I just get a black screen.

And if I try to run the patched Tengai Makyou Zero rom without the xml file, I also get a black screen that way.

PunkFrog

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #123 on: January 17, 2017, 03:07:32 am »
Is this the first translation project to require an xml of this variety?

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #124 on: January 17, 2017, 07:19:56 am »
Is this the first translation project to require an xml of this variety?

I don't know if the final release will require the xml, or if it's just something temporary that's used for the WIP.

DDStranslation or DougRPG are more qualified to speak about this than I am. Some of the other hackers here probably know the answer already. I just know that we need it right now, and I don't know if other projects have needed it before. Zero handles graphics in a unique way, from what I've heard. It may be the first to require an xml... Or it may not.

Let's wait and see.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 08:17:18 am by Tom »

dejan07

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #125 on: January 17, 2017, 10:13:36 am »
I wonder how many teenagers will actually play this, though? Who knows? But they can, if they want to!

This is where other followers of this thread can come into play. After the work is done we could make a youtube campaign of promoting the game and the english patch by contacting big youtubers for review and pluging Toms channel or making our own reviews and  videos about the game.

cccmar

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #126 on: January 17, 2017, 10:24:50 am »
This is where other followers of this thread can come into play. After the work is done we could make a youtube campaign of promoting the game and the english patch by contacting big youtubers for review and pluging Toms channel or making our own reviews and  videos about the game.

Just a potential idea - what about a trailer of sorts? It really helped to popularize E.V.O.: The Theory of Evolution. :) Videos would obviously help too, but you know - giving the people something to hype over (when the game's near completion) is always a good idea, marketing-wise.

Lentfilms

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #127 on: January 17, 2017, 11:26:26 am »
Just a potential idea - what about a trailer of sorts? It really helped to popularize E.V.O.: The Theory of Evolution. :) Videos would obviously help too, but you know - giving the people something to hype over (when the game's near completion) is always a good idea, marketing-wise.

"If you build it, they will come."

I wouldn't worry too much about "marketing" the translation, especially before it is finished. I'm sure word will get around once the patch is released.

KingMike

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #128 on: January 17, 2017, 11:42:31 am »
and if we're really stretching it, "Same Game," if that even counts. I never played it.

I thought Tengai was a replacement skin sold for the SFC game (along with Mario). It was one of few SFC retail games to use the cart with a Satellaview memory card slot.

Also, is this translation also using an expanded program ROM?
(I know when byuu was working on it, he was going to expand the program ROM from 8 to 16 megabits, for a total ROM size of 48 megabit)
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Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #129 on: January 17, 2017, 12:05:05 pm »
Thanks for the suggestion, cccmar and dejan. I have a couple of videos with WIP footage of the translation on my youtube channel.

Doesn't really get the word out, though. Where would I even post the video? Here? The people here already know about the project. I tried posting on reddit once (about my footage of the sequel to Soul Hackers), but some of the people there chewed me out for trying to "get hits and make money" by inviting people to check out my translation (even though my Youtube channel is unverified, and thus unmonetized; I'd never give youtube my bank account information). I sorta gave up on reddit after that experience. I also do not have a twitter account, or a facebook account, or whatever people are using these days.

I only have 148 subscribers at the moment, so I'm largely playing to an empty crowd. Even my complete translation for the sequel to Soul Hackers and my Persona 2 Tsumi: Lost Memories footage have gone ignored. I thought THOSE would be popular at least, given how big Megami Tensei is these days, but there really are only a few people watching.

Maybe it's because everyone wants direct-feed, high quality footage, and I'm not equipped to provide that. I can only film with a digital camera. (For some reason, I can't capture video directly from my computer, so I have to use an off-screen camera. I think people get turned off by the poor quality of my videos and ignore them.) On top of that, I have no trailer or image editing skills, and can't make all of those fancy banners and so-on that people make to attract viewers.

The thing is, that sort of thing's not fun for me. The fun is in playing, translating, and sharing my work with others. Making trailers, trying to spread the word... That part's worse than translating system text! The videos that I have were flat-out BORING to make, and I think the boredom comes through in the videos themselves.

That said, my old Tengai Makyou Zero intro footage is my most watched video, with about 1,800 views since July of last year. (Over half of those views are from Brazil!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0MTxz8pXzs

In any case, I don't expect it will develop even HALF of the following of EVO: The Theory of Evolution.

EVO: The Theory of Evolution is a prequel to a relatively well-known SNES era action RPG. EVO has a cult following in English already. (Well deserved, too! The game was a blast!) Tengai Makyou has pretty much ZERO English following in comparison. Only people into really obscure games have heard about it, and only a small portion of those people are actually interested in playing a patch. For many of them, I suppose it will just be a... "Huh... So they released a patch for it..." kind of reaction. It means just about as much to them as... I don't know, Idea no Hi, or GD Leen, or whatever other obscure untranslated Japanese SFC RPGs are out there.

But the patch will be there for those select few who really know their games. :)

The light at the end of the tunnel is that one big Youtuber (one of my favorites), Happy Console Gamer, is a big fan of the Tengai Makyou series, and he came across my video somehow. He left a nice comment. It's possible that he could spread the message about the patch when it comes out, but who knows? That's entirely up to him.

And King Mike, you're right. I believe "Same Game" (that looks so weird, in English) had an upgrade slot that could be outfitted to add Tengai Makyou content, or something. I think that still counts, if only slightly. It's SOMETHING, anyway.

The rom is expanded, yes... Actually, I believe Lost Templar had already expanded the rom before byuu even committed to it, because the rom I was working with had already been expanded, before DDStranslation and DougRPG started hacking into it. Maybe that's why it needs an xml?

MatatabiMitsu

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #130 on: January 17, 2017, 12:20:11 pm »
Sign up on Something Awful and post a screenshot Let's Play. The games popularity will explode. It's happened multiple times before. Just make sure to lurk and learn how to make an acceptable screenshot LP or you might not get many views. It's 100x easier (though more time consuming) than trying to make a good video LP. And even if you can't get video you can get screenshots right?

Plus if you have a full script in hand it'll make doing a screenshot LP laughably easy. No transcribing required.

This isn't a joke suggestion. Dangan Ronpa got localized because SA lit the whole internet on fire about it. It has a lot more pull in the Internet in general than you might think.

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #131 on: January 17, 2017, 12:44:44 pm »
I don't really want to spoil it for people by showing them the entire game. I think it would them of the experience of playing through it themselves. It's one thing to show a picture here and there, but I wouldn't want to put the whole thing out there. I was even sort of reluctant to show the footage of the game that I did upload. I just figured that it was better than nothing.

That won't be the case for Tengai Makyou Zero. The patch will be out there for people who want it. For the people who don't care, well, that's okay. I don't demand that it be made popular. I mainly want fans of the game to be able to enjoy it in English after all these years! If there are some new fans too, that'd be great, but the series is kinda dead anyway. It's not like the new fans have much else to play in the series, aside from maybe Oriental Blue: Ao no Tengai and Kabuki Klash...

It's a little sad that only these side-games in the series have been translated. (Well, Zero was intended to be a reboot rather than a side-game, but you know what I mean...) I hope to translate Ziria next, even if it's not the most interesting game in the series. (I have already translated a portion of it, actually.)

sillik

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #132 on: January 17, 2017, 02:21:57 pm »
Good luck on the project, I'm looking forward to when the whole Tengai Makyou series will be translated. :)
Are there a lot of references to other TM games, which we won't get if we play Zero first?

Quote
I hope to translate Ziria next, even if it's not the most interesting game in the series. (I have already translated a portion of it, actually.)

Some time ago I stumbled on this Ziria translation topic on the PC Engine FX forums:
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=18443.0
Not sure if the project is still active.

DougRPG

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #133 on: January 17, 2017, 03:34:12 pm »
Quote
DDStranslation or DougRPG are more qualified to speak about this than I am. Some of the other hackers here probably know the answer already. I just know that we need it right now, and I don't know if other projects have needed it before. Zero handles graphics in a unique way, from what I've heard. It may be the first to require an xml... Or it may not.

Right now the only emulator compatible with this translation is Bsnes/Higan. Emulators in general must know the game's memory map to be able to run the game properly. Snes emulators has heuristics to guess the correct memory map. Emulators like Snes9x, Zsnes, etc, do this stuff internally, doing several calculations to guess the correct way to run the game. Most official games has 4MB or less, and 8KB Sram or less, so if your hack fall in this subset then your game will work fine in any emulator.
But some games has enhanced chips with custom mapping, or more Sram or Rom than normal. In this cases the emulators supports only the official releases, sometimes even checking the game's checksum to know what map to use. So if you are doing a translation or hack and change some memory stuff, like expanding the Rom, the Sram, etc, the game sometimes won't work because the emulator don't know what to do. In these cases you need to recompile the emulator adding the new mapping.

But Bsnes/Higan has a very nice feature where you can create a xml manifest where you put your custom mapping. This way the emulator will use this custom mapping to load the game.

This was necessary in Feoez because the game was expanded. This game uses the SPC7110 so it's not a normal game, so the xml contains the information about the expanded memory. This way Bsnes will know where to put the data in the Snes memory map.

The translation will be 100% compatible with the real hardware, but the game was expanded, so to play in the real hardware, like a flash card, you'll need a custom firmware, with this new mapping added. I don't know if flashcards like Sd2snes supports custom maps like Bsnes manifests. If yes, the it will be very simple to run the game in the real hardware. Otherwise the flashcard manufacturers will need to release a compatible firmware.

Again, the game is 100% compatible with hardware, so the developers at the time could have created a cartridge with this translated version. But now in 2017 this is a complicating factor because you'll need to change current sofware (emulator, firmware, etc) just for this translation.

About other emulator I have here a Snes9x version that I recompiled to test the game:



As you can see it's using Snes9x 1.54.1. I can release this version when Tom release the translation. Sometime in the future the official version can add the new mapping.

About Zsnes I don't know what can be done. The same goes to other emulators. But it's very easy to add the mapping, so it's only a matter of recompile the emulator.



PunkFrog

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #134 on: January 17, 2017, 04:55:12 pm »
The translation will be 100% compatible with the real hardware, but the game was expanded, so to play in the real hardware, like a flash card, you'll need a custom firmware, with this new mapping added. I don't know if flashcards like Sd2snes supports custom maps like Bsnes manifests. If yes, the it will be very simple to run the game in the real hardware. Otherwise the flashcard manufacturers will need to release a compatible firmware.

Again, the game is 100% compatible with hardware, so the developers at the time could have created a cartridge with this translated version. But now in 2017 this is a complicating factor because you'll need to change current sofware (emulator, firmware, etc) just for this translation.

How do you get this custom firmware onto the cartridge?

My bad if that's a dumb question. My hardware knowledge is extremely limited, so to speak.

DougRPG

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #135 on: January 17, 2017, 05:00:12 pm »
How do you get this custom firmware onto the cartridge?

My bad if that's a dumb question. My hardware knowledge is extremely limited, so to speak.

I'm talking about flashcards. Flashcard is a special cartridge where you put the game in an SD card, for example. This way you can play in the real console.

Merr Man

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #136 on: January 17, 2017, 06:50:46 pm »
So whenever people use the title "Far East of Eden" to describe the series, it's actually the title of the satirical meta-book and not even a translation of the series' name itself, which seems to translate to "Irregular History" which, I guess, wouldn't be as catchy, though I guess that it is due to my native tongue that I like to refer to the series that I know about in English, except for ones like Seiken Densetsu (Sorry if it seems run-on). Guess I'll just call it the Tengai Makyou series as normalized.

Yeah, I've heard of those other TM games, because of that game on the PS2, and Ziria on the XBox 360 (of all places). Because of the recent releases, relatively speaking, I do hope that you all won't have to do all of the work to translate all of the entries in the series, or whoever may be interested in doing so, but aside from Kabuki Klash even the advent of the JRPG in the west wasn't enough to localize any entries for English-comfortable audiences, would they think that it would offend westerners, especially Americans? I would love to play "Apocalypse" no matter what. Is the satire strong, in at least Zero? 

If you've played through enough of TM, what would you say is the best entry in the series?

As far as promotion and hype, I've actually felt that some of the suggestions and commentary are very much in with what I would have to say. We need more translators and helpers so that I won't have to see an older Japanese-only game and go "Why can't I play it in English?". There was even a region locked DYKG episode where they went into a Gamefreak JRPG that was never localized, and all I could see is exactly what I would say. It wouldn't just be exposure to a new game and patch, but to a hobby that could enrich the greater umbrella of the hobby of gaming. Sometimes web sites like Siliconera and Destructoid will run articles on new fan translations, so there's at least something out there to help.





Nightcrawler

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #137 on: January 17, 2017, 07:55:53 pm »
This was necessary in Feoez because the game was expanded. This game uses the SPC7110 so it's not a normal game, so the xml contains the information about the expanded memory. This way Bsnes will know where to put the data in the Snes memory map.

I don't believe it is necessary. I proposed a mapping that would be compatible with the original cart, as well as already work with existing emulators back in 2012. But, byuu shot it down and insisted on doing things the BSNES locked-in way instead on grounds of needing more space for some super secret translation feature that never took place.

As it stands now, no flash carts, or emulators will play this. Only BSNES/higan (and probably only certain versions that are compatible with that particular version of the manifest file).  :'(
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Isao Kronos

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #138 on: January 17, 2017, 08:15:54 pm »
>only BSNES/HIGAN

welp time to start a riot, i refuse to use an emulator that will slideshow on my 9 year old computer

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #139 on: January 17, 2017, 08:32:02 pm »
Yeah, Merr Man... It's one of those "All cats are animals, but not all animals are cats," sort of thing. All Far East of Eden titles are Tengai Makyou, but not all Tengai Makyou titles are Far East of Eden. People interested in Apocalypse in particular should be aware of this distinction.

That said, how to translate the titles is entirely up to the translator. For instance, if you buy the PSN versions, and your PS3/PSP/Vita is set to English, the names of the games will appear as "Far East of Eden: Ziria" and "Far East of Eden: Manjimaru." I can't say I agree with this translation. I feel it ignores the context and backstory of the name, but translations will always have points of contention, won't they?

You asked if Zero was as satirical as Zero. Let me say that Zero is certainly not as satirical as Apocalypse. It's played relatively straight in comparison. Apocalypse has goofy moments coming at you left and right. Zero looks bright and colorful, and certainly has some very light moments, but for the most part, it's a classic RPG story. I suppose the closest game to Apocalypse is Fuun Kabukiden.

That said, there are reasons why Tengai Makyou Zero would not have been released in America, at least not without censorship. There are several parts that would just not fly. They would even be considered taboo by today's standards, let alone back in the day.

At any rate, aside from the name of the hero's clan, and one (relatively meaningless) cameo by one of the characters from the second Tengai Makyou game, there are practically no references to the earlier games in the series. It was intended to be a reboot, since most Nintendo fans in that day had not played the PC Engine games. The game, much like Apocalypse, was made with people who've never played a Tengai series game before in mind.

My favorite game in the series is Apocalypse. (Zero's #2!) The battle system in Apocalypse is... Well, not as good as the beautiful battle screenshots might suggest, but the world itself is hilarious and unforgettable. (The battle system was improved slightly in the PSP remake.) Most Japanese fans believe that Manjimaru is the best.

My least favorite is Tengai Makyou III: Namida. The battles are pretty fun and refreshing, letting you swat your way through hordes of enemies, but the graphics are ugly, and the world seems really desolate and lifeless.

Zero probably has the best pacing in the series. It doesn't require much in the way of grinding. So long as you're thorough about exploration, you'll be able to proceed at a steady pace without much trouble. That said, there's nothing that redefines the genre here. It's a classic style orthodox JRPG, which is something of a lost art in this day and age.

I suppose that if younger gamers were exposed to these games, it might open the door to the joys of an old-fashioned JRPG. In the end, I hope lots of people play it, but I'm expecting that it will be largely ignored, despite how great the game is.

And Doug, thanks for the explanation. I understand the situation more too, now.

Nightcrawler, if there's some way to map it to be more compatible, go ahead and contact DDStranslation/DougRPG about it! That'd be great!

But in any case, it's not true that no other emulators will be able to play it. DougRPG just showed the translation working on SNES9X with modification already. It would probably just take one small update to the official release.

A different version of the manifest will be needed for Higan, but I'm sure DougRPG or DDStranslation will be able to make it when the time comes.