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Author Topic: please teach me reference document in the hardware?  (Read 2332 times)

DEDEDE2

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please teach me reference document in the hardware?
« on: August 19, 2016, 06:17:24 am »
Hello.
I am studying hardware(CPU) to hack ARMCPU.
but I am first step. So Please teach me reference book in the hardware??


THANK YOU! EVERYONE

dACE

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Re: please teach me reference document in the hardware?
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2016, 09:07:05 am »
Try google: "arm reference manual" OR why not start another new thread?

/dACE

tvtoon

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Re: please teach me reference document in the hardware?
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2016, 10:16:38 am »
Start here.
May the source be with you! :)

FAST6191

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Re: please teach me reference document in the hardware?
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2016, 10:59:00 am »
You were probably already linked http://www.coranac.com/tonc/text/toc.htm
Others have linked good stuff but that is probably the nicest intro I can think of.

I guess I could also link another favourite
http://blog.quirk.es/2008/12/things-you-never-wanted-to-know-about.html

You might be heading about this the wrong way though as it is almost like you are trying to take the lot in at once. It is possible to do later, doubtless you will see many around here find a hardware spec and then basically hack a system they might never have even played on an emulator, but I reckon you want to go through and pick it up piece by piece for one system first.

jonk

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Re: please teach me reference document in the hardware?
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2016, 05:16:42 pm »
Hello.
I am studying hardware(CPU) to hack ARMCPU.
but I am first step. So Please teach me reference book in the hardware??
I can already tell that you are just setting yourself up for failure. You need to pick more realizable objectives along the way.

Saying "teach me reference book..." simply says to me that you can't even read the reference manuals on ARM processors. That's not a bad thing, so don't take me the wrong way. There aren't a lot of people who can. So it's not a statement about you, if you can't. You are just normal, is all. But the ARM manuals, and the various references that various manufacturers also write regarding their specific implementations of peripheral units that surround the ARM core, is daunting. Just getting all the right information and understanding how it is organized can be a struggle, all of its own. So you are picking out one of the more difficult cores to go after.

By comparison, for example, a Microchip PIC18F family processor will have very nicely laid out and complete documentation available and readily found. So ARM is actually uniquely difficult because there is the ARM group [recently purchased by a Japanese firm], which does NOT make integrated circuits but does offer intellectual property for others to use in making their own ICs, and then there are perhaps almost 100 other companies who purchase that IP and use it in their own custom designs, no two alike, and where their own documentation may leave gaps, or duplicate information, or otherwise depend on you getting stuff from ARM itself to supplement what they write.

So ARM targets are a mess, of sorts.

And this doesn't even begin to address the issues related to game machines which may include an ARM7TDMI, together with some oddball ARM9 core, in a hybrid system and different memories, all of which then requires you to get and understand STILL MORE documentation, which is likely poorly collected and often poorly written, besides.

Seriously, I'm just saying you are just setting yourself up for failure. You need to start on something more manageable considering what skills you do have and with some reasoning regarding what lengths you might be able to stretch out from there in attacking problems. You should want to try something where you already know more than 80% of it and where the remaining stuff is less than 20%. You have a good chance of succeeding, then.

I suspect you are probably quite young and simply want to learn and can google up some information about a processor that is related to something you feel motivated to try, but that you are too young to realize the difficulties ahead and to know how to parcel out future incremental steps, where you are able to succeed and improve your self-confidence as you grow. And that you are also too young to have the necessary long-term goal horizons needed to take on and stick with it long enough to complete something like this.

I can't tell you how many times someone's kid, knowing what I do for work, have asked me to help them "modify their smart cell phone" to do something seriously fancy. Cripes. Those things are the pinnacle of technology and use the smallest possible surface mount parts and the very best available design techniques. They are complex and they require very specialized tools and very specialized experience to use. But they still insist on something like that. To them, these are just simple objects and therefore they should be simple to change, too. But they have no clues, at all. And it would be years, perhaps a decade or more, before they could even hope to take on such a project -- if they were lucky. Their knowledge is just so lacking and they have so much to gain before even considering such ideas. And my telling them "no" never really seems to convince them, either. So I just don't argue. Reality will impinge on them at some point. It has a way of doing that.

Pick a realistic target. No, it won't make you feel as though you can impress others around you. They probably won't even care, if you achieve a realistic target over the next month or two. You won't be able to show them a gee-whiz result. It will be dull and lack-luster and to most everyone around you kind of pointless. You'll get a pat on the head and "nice work" comments, if you are lucky. But that's not the point. You need to set yourself projects you can complete and achieve; then achieve them. Then build on that. Completion is EVERYTHING in life. It's not so much what you complete. It is the fact that you do complete things that counts. Focus on small steps and complete them. Build on that. Then you can reach for the stars, later. But not tomorrow.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2016, 04:01:55 pm by jonk »
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henke37

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Re: please teach me reference document in the hardware?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2016, 01:36:32 pm »
I hate to be "that guy", but I fear that you need more than help finding the reference manual. My fear is that you need actual help reading. Not in how to navigate it. But in actually reading the text. Your English skills are obviously far bellow the requirement for a this advanced topic. May I recommend finishing learning English before trying to learn a this technical topic?

DEDEDE2

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Re: please teach me reference document in the hardware?
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2016, 10:15:04 am »
Thank you everyone.I have to do my best.
THANK YOU! EVERYONE

jonk

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Re: please teach me reference document in the hardware?
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2016, 01:19:25 pm »
Thank you everyone.I have to do my best.
Without knowing you yet, I'd recommend that you pick up a Texas Instruments MSP430 device like this one linked here and sold on ebay. I picked those up for $10 and have a bunch of them here. The development software is excellent and I'd strongly recommend that you pick the IAR Embedded Workbench, Kickstart edition (free), and use it. You get assembly, C, and C++ with that. And the device is a 16-bit CPU, which is better to start with than either an 8-bit or a 32-bit CPU. It's the perfect sweet spot for starting out. The IAR debugger/emulator is also fantastic.

Just start out by trying to turn the LED on and off and perhaps to blink it a bit. What you will learn from all this is experience using actual software development tools for embedded applications. This means assembly (if and when you are up to it) and C and even C++. You will also learn about documentation and how to read it. (In this case, the MSP430 documentation is about as easy as this gets. So it is a good way to start. But it will still be a struggle for you!) You also get just a smidgen of hardware experience (LED, for example.) But not too much, just a little bit. The device can be later added to (there are little, cheap boards which can be removed or added to it and if you want to explore something with hardware, you can do that here.) And there are huge expanses of programming experience that can be acquired in using this device, as well. It fits in your pocket, is safe to use just about anywhere, etc. It's a great start and you can take it into dozens of completely different directions depending on your interests, as well. Besides, it doesn't even cost that much!

The experiences here will be directly applicable to NES, SNES, and other emulator work, too.
An equal right to an opinion isn't a right to an equal opinion. -- 1995, me
Saying religion is the source of morality is like saying a squirrel is the source of acorns.  -- 2002, me