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Author Topic: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.  (Read 36072 times)

KaioShin

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #60 on: July 16, 2016, 04:39:58 pm »
There is no market that wants to buy NES games en masse. It only seems that way to you because you move in the circle of 100 people that would. The thing contains probably all the games an average customer would care for. There is no need for it to be expandable or other fancy enhancements.
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jonk

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #61 on: July 16, 2016, 04:42:59 pm »
A legitimate NES (or a new and improved version) with an HDMI out would be nice and is something I would probably buy
I just used something like this or this or this. If you don't want artificial "delays" in the game play, you have to hook them up to a computer monitor and NOT a TV. But they work quite well, from my experience, and they are very cheap and easy to add.

EDIT: In case it's not clear from the above, I added the HDMI output module to both original (though maintained by adding new connectors so that the cartridges continue to work well) NES and SNES units that I've owned since buying them new when they first came out (1983 and 1991.) (No problems, yet, and the full feedback loop from video output to monitor back to eyes and into brain and through to hands using the controller seems about the same so far as I can tell.)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 04:53:29 pm by jonk »
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PresidentLeever

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #62 on: July 16, 2016, 04:58:21 pm »
This would be cooler if it was a real NES, which could also let you use save states etc. (or do flash carts already let you?).
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SunGodPortal

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #63 on: July 16, 2016, 05:08:23 pm »
There is no market that wants to buy NES games en masse.

You say that, yet that is exactly what they are releasing here. A device that features NES games in em masse.

I just think it's pitiful that if someone wants to properly play NES games on an HD TV (the only kind that are still being produced) they have to either mod their console or be limited to the very small selection that Nintendo chooses to offer. There were hundreds of games released for the NES and probably 50-70 that are actually worth playing. Would it really have been that much trouble for them to add some sort of expansion slot for cards that could be released later with other collections of NES games or something similar? I mean, they've been in the console business for almost as long as I have been alive.

July 16, 2016, 05:08:59 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I just used something like this or this or this. If you don't want artificial "delays" in the game play, you have to hook them up to a computer monitor and NOT a TV. But they work quite well, from my experience, and they are very cheap and easy to add.

EDIT: In case it's not clear from the above, I added the HDMI output module to both original (though maintained by adding new connectors so that the cartridges continue to work well) NES and SNES units that I've owned since buying them new when they first came out (1983 and 1991.) (No problems, yet, and the full feedback loop from video output to monitor back to eyes and into brain and through to hands using the controller seems about the same so far as I can tell.)

I guess I'll eventually just have to go this route.
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Jorpho

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #64 on: July 16, 2016, 05:44:42 pm »
Yeah right. Each one of these things is probably produced for $3 a piece by Chinese children and like nearly everything else these days made in China it will be made from the cheapest, substitute grade materials the Earth has to offer.
So you think Nintendo is making $57 in pure profit on every unit sold?  If it costs the Chinese children an extra 50 cents in parts, you can bet that's going to be reflected in a substantial increase in price when it comes down the line.

Also, Nintendo has to support this thing after they sell it.  They're not going to go for the lowest bidder if that means they're going to have to fix or replace 10% of the units under warranty, especially if it means taking a hit to their reputation.  Adding complexity makes it all the more likely that a unit will fail.

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Because it's simple. This is a stand alone device that has no place to grow. If it was a device that you could buy more games and accessories for then that's more stuff to sell and longer that it will likely have a place in the market.
The people who want more games – even NES games – probably already own a Wii or a Wii U or a 3DS.  Or they know well enough to get some emulator and download ROMs from the Internet.  Or they already have a RetroN or Messiah or something.  More stuff to sell just means more SKUs to keep and less room for other, more profitable products on the shelves.

And besides!  Any kind of expansion port would probably be hacked before too long, and then suddenly there goes the supposed profits they would reap from any of those fancy new expansions and so on.  Any kind of efforts expended on making it less hackable just means more money invested in R&D, and still more complex things that can go wrong.  Perhaps you'd like the unit to provide that authentic blinking-screen NES sensation?

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There's hundreds of games for the NES and we all know that Nintendo isn't above reselling us the same crap over and over again. The least they can do is make it worth it.
I'm sure even they know that they can only "resell the same crap" so many times before no one feels like buying it anymore.

I just think it's pitiful that if someone wants to properly play NES games on an HD TV (the only kind that are still being produced) they have to either mod their console or be limited to the very small selection that Nintendo chooses to offer.
What makes you think this would be any more "proper" than an emulator or a clone system if they just added an expansion port?

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There were hundreds of games released for the NES and probably 50-70 that are actually worth playing.
Yes, and this has thirty of them.  Heck, if it really takes off they could probably sell a second non-expandable unit containing the other 20-40 games that are actually worth playing, and people would still buy it.

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I mean, they've been in the console business for almost as long as I have been alive.
And yet, you still seem completely convinced that they have no idea what they're doing!
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 05:57:51 pm by Jorpho »
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SunGodPortal

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #65 on: July 16, 2016, 08:09:26 pm »
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So you think Nintendo is making $57 in pure profit on every unit sold?

It was a joke. My point was that these things are surely worth much less than they are being sold for. That's how the world works. Things cost less to make than they probably ever did before but the company heads benefit from it, not the consumer or the majority of the company employees. Sure they had to develop it but I'm sure that was relatively cheap due to the staggering lack of features and the fact that they are simply recreating a very weak console from the 80's with modern components. Oh and the fact that they don't have to develop games for it, they just have to slap some old games that are already made onto it (yes, I understand that that isn't free but it's still nowhere near as much as it would cost to actually develope a new game).

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And besides!  Any kind of expansion port would probably be hacked before too long, and then suddenly there goes the supposed profits they would reap from any of those fancy new expansions and so on.

That goes for every device but that hasn't stopped Nintendo from releasing new consoles so why would it stop them from adding extra functionality to this?

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Perhaps you'd like the unit to provide that authentic blinking-screen NES sensation?

No. I'd just want the ability to play NES games on a modern TV without adapters, modding, using my computer or having to buy a new system that only has a handful of games that I'm actually interested in when something like what I am asking for here would be cheaper or less of a hassle.

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I'm sure even they know that they can only "resell the same crap" so many times before no one feels like buying it anymore.

I think a lot of what I've seen from them from the past 20 years or so contradicts this. Plus, every few years a new generation comes along that they can resell their past glory to again and again.

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What makes you think this would be any more "proper" than an emulator or a clone system if they just added an expansion port?

By proper I mean something that I can just hook up and play without a bunch of extra bullshit to buy or hookup and that is not some shitty pirate device or computer program that I personally only want to use for hacking purposes.

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Yes, and this has thirty of them.  Heck, if it really takes off they could probably sell a second non-expandable unit containing the other 20-40 games that are actually worth playing, and people would still buy it.

When they announce that I will be less disappointed. It reminds me of when a band releases a compilation of their old demos that people have been waiting to hear in a remastered form or a collection of EPs that is long since out of print but the band doesn't bother to put all of the tracks despite there being plenty of space left on the disc. It's disappointing and many people who would otherwise be interested in it will be disappointed. All said, I still may end up buying one of these things, it just pisses me off that they cheaped out. The CRT-TVs I have won't last forever and they are only going to get rarer and more expensive so if I want to play Castlevania III, Little Nemo the Dream Master, Contra, G.I. Joe, Super Dodge Ball, Wizards and Warriors II, etc. I guess I'll just have to be lame and play them on an emulator.

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And yet, you still seem completely convinced that they have no idea what they're doing!

If I suggested that, I was being a smartass. I'm just so disappointed that they decided to release something like this and the result was a disposable NES...
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Jorpho

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #66 on: July 17, 2016, 12:07:46 am »
Sure they had to develop it but I'm sure that was relatively cheap
Yes – and if development costs were higher, they would probably have to pass that expense on to the consumer, who might be less inclined to buy.

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Oh and the fact that they don't have to develop games for it, they just have to slap some old games that are already made onto it
They also probably have to test everything exhaustively, or there will be hell to pay.

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And besides!  Any kind of expansion port would probably be hacked before too long, and then suddenly there goes the supposed profits they would reap from any of those fancy new expansions and so on.
That goes for every device but that hasn't stopped Nintendo from releasing new consoles so why would it stop them from adding extra functionality to this?
Seems to me the Wii Mini has been quite impervious to hacking thus far.

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By proper I mean something that I can just hook up and play without a bunch of extra bullshit to buy or hookup and that is not some shitty pirate device or computer program that I personally only want to use for hacking purposes.
Hooking up a computer to an HDTV is almost entirely trivial nowadays, and I'm sure a significant segment of the knowledgeable population has a very different view of emulation.

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All said, I still may end up buying one of these things
And you think they're not going to make as much money on this than they could have if they drove up the price and development costs to cater to a segment of the population with even more exclusive tastes?
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SunGodPortal

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #67 on: July 17, 2016, 12:47:31 am »
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Yes – and if development costs were higher, they would probably have to pass that expense on to the consumer, who might be less inclined to buy.

I don't see why they couldn't produce the sort of device I'm looking for and sell it for the same cost. $60 is probably twice what this thing should be sold for anyway. I have no doubt that this thing was much easier to develop since they didn't have to start from the ground up and already had a library of 100's of games that they could copy/paste onto it, yet it will still end up costing $60. Every bit of what they needed to make this thing a reality has already been around for years.
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mrrichard999

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #68 on: July 17, 2016, 02:05:04 am »
Just mod an old xbox and load it with all the retro systems!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KumB340gtUo

jonk

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #69 on: July 17, 2016, 03:00:57 am »
Just mod an old xbox and load it with all the retro systems!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KumB340gtUo
I've got something just like that running an Xbox 360. Includes arcade games (qix, xybots, galaga, galaxian,...) and the rest mentioned there. Works okay. The menus are tedious to scroll up and down through as the game list is very long and the number of options for assigning key combinations is insanely huge.

I'll soon be working on something much smaller (slightly more than 3"x2".) The base board includes H.265 4K/60FPS and H.264 4K/30FPS capable VPU driving HDMI w/audio, Mali™-450 GPU (3 Pixel-processors + 2 Vertex shader processors), 4 USB 2.0 host ports, USB OTG, ethernet, 2GHz quad core cpu with 2GB DDR3 ram, and costs just $40 (in single retail units.) Will see how it goes. But it should be quite capable.
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SunGodPortal

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #70 on: July 17, 2016, 03:07:08 am »
Just mod an old xbox and load it with all the retro systems!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KumB340gtUo

You know, I just may do that. I might as well. I'm already running a slightly modded PS2 for the huge stack of games I burned. If Nintendo did release another mini NES with additional games I'd just be buying a second NES just so I could play games that I should have been able to play on the first one. Plus, I'm not too keen on the idea of buying games that I have already owned in the past. I used to have a collection of over 100 NES games and about 40 SNES games. It would be nice to help support Nintendo, but since they obviously don't care about people like me why should I care about them?
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jonk

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #71 on: July 17, 2016, 03:44:25 am »
It would be nice to help support Nintendo, but since they obviously don't care about people like me why should I care about them?
Support the people who are listening and doing things you want and enjoy. Don't support the people who aren't listening to you. Pretty simple rule.
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MathUser2929

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #72 on: July 17, 2016, 07:32:08 am »
This is just like when people complained that the Wii U controller didn't have unlimited range and function as another portable. People just expect more. selling 100 dollars worth of digital titles for 60 ain't enough. It's gotta have a cartridge port, just like all those other plug and play devices out there. O wait, there's only one that did that.

Disch

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #73 on: July 17, 2016, 12:03:35 pm »
You guys are way overthinking this.

If you think it's worth the money, buy it.
If you don't, don't.

The concept of "brand loyalty" or "supporting a company" is pretty ridiculous unless you have a personal investment in a company (like you personally know the owner or have stock in it or something).

jonk

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #74 on: July 17, 2016, 02:08:12 pm »
If you think it's worth the money, buy it.
If you don't, don't.

The concept of "brand loyalty" or "supporting a company" is pretty ridiculous unless you have a personal investment in a company (like you personally know the owner or have stock in it or something).
The only modification I'd want to add to what you wrote is that it may help to support local, small business companies, if such support can sustain a local expert on some technical topic. With the advent of very broadly popular, national companies such as Amazon, who can greatly reduce their costs through economies of scale plus non-retail storage warehouses located on cheap property and able to negotiate very low shipping rates with the few shippers that exist, small local companies are finding it increasingly difficult to maintain their ability to compete on price alone. However, supporting someone local may help create the possibility of sustaining an expert with experience and knowledge to talk with before deciding on a specific solution to some problem. And you can't do that by talking with an Amazon employee. I've lived long enough to see the systematic demise of local expert talent in retail establishments in parallel with the very tempting ability to buy from regional and national outlets offering good products at prices a local retail shop can't easily approach. But buying locally isn't a guarantee of re-establishing local experts in retail outlets, either. It's just creates the possibility for it. And not doing it pretty much guarantees the continued loss of access to expert talent in retail stores. (You can hire them, of course. But that's a different story.)
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SunGodPortal

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #75 on: July 17, 2016, 03:56:07 pm »
This is just like when people complained that the Wii U controller didn't have unlimited range and function as another portable. People just expect more. selling 100 dollars worth of digital titles for 60 ain't enough. It's gotta have a cartridge port, just like all those other plug and play devices out there. O wait, there's only one that did that.

I'm not complaining. It sounds like Microsoft has given me everything I've asked for this time. Oh wait... :P
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 04:31:02 pm by SunGodPortal »
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KingMike

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #76 on: July 17, 2016, 05:21:05 pm »
Just mod an old xbox and load it with all the retro systems!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KumB340gtUo

If we go back to 2006 when the Virtual Console was first announced, people were probably saying the same thing.
Yet 10 years later, obviously there's been enough of a market to make it worth Nintendo's while.

Having to test stuff is probably they didn't include Castlevania III with the first two.
(I realize it includes the two one-off mappers MMC2 and MMC6. But I'd imagine MMC2 was simple enough for them, and it sounds like MMC6 is mostly similar to the already included MMC3. Is the PRG-RAM stuff the only difference?)
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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #77 on: July 17, 2016, 05:52:08 pm »
I'm not on earth to tell people how they should spend their time or money...I just think this is a neat thing, and the wonderful thing about it is that I get to have that opinion, and nobody can make me change my mind.

It's an uncomplicated piece of hardware that is attractive and I'm going to guess will not require one single iota of tech support to get working.

I sold a dude my NES and bought a Wii, and the dude complained to me that the games wouldn't boot, it was just blinking on and off. I explained to him first that the internet is wrong and you should not use window cleaner to clean it. I explained to him second that you can insert the cartridge, press power, if it doesn't boot, shift the cartridge to the left in the slot, press reset, then shift the cartridge to the right in the slot, reset, and repeat until the game boots. Worked for me for decades now.

You'd think people never owned NES systems before. But this new Mini NES won't require any such tomfoolery.
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Disch

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #78 on: July 17, 2016, 06:07:04 pm »
it sounds like MMC6 is mostly similar to the already included MMC3. Is the PRG-RAM stuff the only difference?)

The only significant one, yes.  And whether or not that's "significant" is questionable -- as emulators could get away with emulating MMC6 games as if they were MMC3 and they'd play just fine.

I explained to him second that you can insert the cartridge, press power, if it doesn't boot, shift the cartridge to the left in the slot, press reset, then shift the cartridge to the right in the slot, reset, and repeat until the game boots.

The CIC (anti-piracy mechanism) is the reason it does that crap.  The blinking screen is caused by a CIC desync so the NES thinks you're running an unauthorized cartridge and refuses to play it.  There's no other mechanical reason why games were so hard to get working on the NES.  And in fact... on the toploader... they weren't -- because the CIC was removed.  Toploader will run whatever you throw at it 99.9% of the time.

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #79 on: July 17, 2016, 06:30:47 pm »
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I'm not on earth to tell people how they should spend their time or money...I just think this is a neat thing

I do too now that my specific needs can be taken care of in a satisfactory manner elsewhere.
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