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Author Topic: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.  (Read 35999 times)

Panzer88

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #120 on: July 21, 2016, 12:07:21 pm »
So you are Nintendo and don't want to validate any emulator development and can't use any code from them or buy one in (are you Sega now?). So you have some nice old specs, though probably nothing so nice/useful as nesdev, and a relatively short while to build an emulator for what amounts to an embedded system. Emulation coding is not necessarily taught in schools and you are working for game industry money anyway.
I can see game specific hack jobs and crude emulation being the result of that. It is embarrassing to see but I can still see it.

I'm crying a river over here for how hard it is for this huge corporation to get the job done right. For starters they've been demonizing emulation in the industry for years even though when properly licensed it's a great, and cost effective solution (see Frank cifaldi's GDC talk). Furthermore they did borrow from hobby emulation (see the iNES header) just without any attribution. And finally, you're putting a lot of limitations on them that didn't have to exist, they could have hired a professional to do a better job, for example. They just didn't want to. In fact if you look at the team that got hired to do most of the Sega titles on VC (M2) they did a much better now job, so there's no excuse.

But really I'm not upset at "Nintendo"

Spoony, if "Nintendo" wanted to make an NES, they could manufacture it in volumes that would make it affordable. Here's the thing, they aren't releasing anything like this in Japan, there is a large possibility that they don't have Nintendo engineers working on this and it is outsourced to an external company. Furthermore, this is likely the pet project of someone at Nintendo treehouse at NoA, not a project from the top of the company, so it's not surprising that this is the result.

It's a shame it's not a bigger project with more momentum behind it but frankly most of Nintendo's attention right now is on NX. And realistically the quality of this device doesn't matter, people will buy it anyway, they'll play it anyway this holiday season, and then they'll soon forget about it and that will buy Nintendo the time they need until NX. They're not planning on supporting this long term, it has a fixed number of games.

Heck, even with the VC, every time they release a new console they start over from scratch with the library, so it's not something that you can realistically invest in and continue to get more content in the long run
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 12:15:44 pm by Panzer88 »
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MegaManJuno

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #121 on: July 21, 2016, 12:58:00 pm »
Maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't it found that the Famicom Mini/NES Classics releases for GBA were basically running PocketNES?  :huh:

FAST6191

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #122 on: July 21, 2016, 01:30:57 pm »
There were a few other nes "ports" running pocketnes on the GBA. http://www.gutenberg.us/articles/pocketnes has a bit more. Nintendo's classic nes/famicom mini series did its own thing as far as I know.

As for Panzer88's reply I agree.  I don't know if I can say they painted themselves into a corner but they seem to act like they have where others are reaping the rewards of playing nice with others. I liked that talk as well, even linked it round here a few months back http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,21667.0.html and highly suggest it for all replying here, probably not before you watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5miMbqYB4E but makes a nice double bill.

On the ines header I am not sure I can count that. That they did not lose it speaks to a certain level of incompetence but it is not going to ammo for me calling hypocrite on their stance on emulation (if others have never read it then have a giggle https://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp ).

Back on volumes I am sitting here wondering if the cheap and cheerful silicon fab places (others reading some of the much larger process sizes, because it is not like this will need something crazy small, have been reduced to the levels which mere mortals can just about afford to use if you know where to look).

jonk

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #123 on: July 21, 2016, 04:17:11 pm »
As for Panzer88's reply I agree.  I don't know if I can say they painted themselves into a corner but they seem to act like they have where others are reaping the rewards of playing nice with others. I liked that talk as well, even linked it round here a few months back http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,21667.0.html and highly suggest it for all replying here, probably not before you watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5miMbqYB4E but makes a nice double bill.
I hadn't seen the thread until now. I'll listen soon.

Back on volumes I am sitting here wondering if the cheap and cheerful  silicon fab places (others reading some of the much larger process sizes, because it is not like this will need something crazy small, have been reduced to the levels which mere mortals can just about afford to use if you know where to look).
This part is pretty confusing to me. I'd appreciate a clearer statement? I have worked with FABs, including those who broker their services, and I'm not sure exactly what you are wanting to say here. I get the "volumes" part and how that may relate to a FAB. But what exactly are you thinking about?

Now I'll try and read between the lines. I think you are saying that high volumes and FAB production goes hand-in-hand. So if you are talking about high volumes, then it is perfectly reasonable to consider accessing a FAB process. So far, that's true.

Note: I'd add that even if you are talking about relatively small volumes, it can make sense to consider accessing a FAB. FABs need to run pretty much 24/7, if possible. A FAB owner may (if they aren't a top of the line FAB used by a major chip supplier, anyway) only need their FAB for 12 hours a day (or less.) And they want to sell the remaining time. For a long time now, there are brokers who specialize in selling access to such FABs. And you can even do this on a "single wafer" run, too, at reasonable costs. I bought a single wafer and processing for $5k, some years back, in fact. There are other costs -- cutting the wafer into dies, testing the dies and binning them, wire bonding them into packages, and so on. But the point here is that you don't even need high volume anymore to reasonably consider a custom ASIC design FAB'd on a brokered FAB process somewhere. It's done all the time.

It is also true that the highest end FABs, those FAB processes which provide unique advantages to their owners, pretty much are NEVER brokered to anyone. This is the problem that faced MIPS, for example, when it wanted to field the then-new R2000 series parts. To compete with Intel and Motorola, who at the time were FABing out their high end chips to a buying market, MIPS couldn't access their FAB processes because neither of them would sell any time. So MIPS had to use processes which had about 1/10th the number of equivalent gates (inverters and transmission lines) and had of course much larger feature sizes, as well, and so were slower (or at the same gate count and clock rates would be lots more power hungry.) This was a huge hurdle to climb over. But they managed to do quite well at the time, given that they only had access to third tier, rather old FAB processes. The story here is that only the owners of the very best FAB processes get to use those processes. If you are shopping around for brokered FAB time, then you get to use 2nd or 3rd tier older equipment and processes. But at least they are mature and fairly cheap.

You and I, assuming we could pony up a few tens of thousands of dollars, could have access to appropriate software and FAB capacity. Nintendo, of course, could access much better processes with many more processing steps and much smaller features. But the NRE (non-refundable engineering) investment would be a lot higher, of course. But the 65C816 (about 22000 transistors) or 6502 (3510 transistors) are VERY SMALL devices to produce. On the better FABs, processing 12" wafers and using somewhat older 90nm feature sizes, you might expect to get a 10 million 6502s from a single wafer, as a rough guess. The early 6502 used 8000nm features and occupied 21mm^2 in area. They sucked up about 60mA at 5V, too, running at 1MHz -- about 300mW. At the 90nm feature size, and assuming other things don't change in a re-FABd design -- they would, though), the new die size would be about 0.0025 mm^2, or about 10,000 times smaller in area. Other things being the same, this would imply 10,000 less capacitance being switched. The power supply voltage could be as little as 1V, but probably would "like" 1.2V. (With typical I/O wanting more like 3V, that might imply some "additions" to work this all out.) But the basic idea is that the new power requirement would be lower by a factor of about 1.2/5/10000, or about 7 microwatts total. However, it's even better than that because NMOS chews up a LOT more power than CMOS. In any case, you'd expect that die to have less than the expected leakage of a typical CR2025 lithium button battery kept on the shelf and unused. In short, you could run that CPU on a lithium battery for about the same time as is the long term shelf life of that same battery. There is no question you could run it for about ten years at least, that way. Of course, there is more to make it useful. That that's a thumbnail sketch of where Nintendo could reach towards, if they wanted to, with an NES cpu. (The power estimates are assuming a clock rate at 1MHz... (the new feature sizes would allow MUCH faster rates, too, of course.)

For a benchmark, keep in mind that about 1/3rd of the current FAB capacity is at 40nm or smaller! So 90nm is almost "easy" these days. About a quarter of the FAB capacity is running at 80nm to 200nm. You and I could probably buy 200nm features, if we shopped around, at rates even a hobbyist might be able to muster. And at 400nm or so, I'm sure of it. And the power requirements would still be very, very low, and the supportable clock rates still far higher than we'd need. If any of us wanted to do a short "run" of chips at larger feature sizes, it would still beat the pants off of those older parts in every meaningful way.
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FAST6191

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #124 on: July 21, 2016, 06:16:53 pm »
In various parts of China it seems some of the old higher gate size processes (sometimes to the point of not being usefully measured in nanometres any more, 90nm is still dreaming territory) are being sold for reasonably cheap -- someone got the old gear/bought an old fab going cheap (cheaper to build from scratch I guess) and tweaked the lithography to be more amenable to small runs. Being old gear apparently yields are nothing special and as it was probably some knackered old wire bonding machine you are not going to have some of the more fun package sizes for the result either. Apparently some are also offering it as a kind of FPGA to burned in silicon model as well but that might have been a slightly different one and I know little more there.
I met the former in car electronics, well motorbike electronics but same difference really, a few years back where someone had a fairly nice controller for some lights and heads up display and that was apparently what happened.

I have the occasional discussion like this and most times I go looking I have not got something back like you can do for PCBs where you just fire off a gerber to a fairly high profile/modern site and bust out the credit card, it still being like it was 15 years ago where it was good to its friends/those in the know and that is not me. A pity really as an alibaba/aliexpress frontend could have some nice things happen, however as it spared me playing with spice I was not too upset.

Probably pointless to think along these lines for Nintendo as I imagine they have real deals in place for their powerpc stuff and all the custom ARM stuff they have, however as you said if we are only contemplating remaking 80's gear and don't need it mil or (aero)space grade (such folks seem to be the main market for a lot of these old embedded chips, see also the occasionally amusing thing where customs/state department/similar gets in a tizzy because someone sold something that was in these old consoles to a country not on the Christmas card list) then it is possibly a different matter. Again I am a few years out now so it might have changed but back then it was a viable alternative, if you could handle the design side of things, to the FGPAs, CPLDs/PAL chips and microcontrollers of the day.

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #125 on: July 21, 2016, 07:26:22 pm »
GameTechUS selling more HiDefNES https://www.game-tech.us/shop/
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jonk

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #126 on: July 21, 2016, 08:12:49 pm »
In various parts of China it seems some of the old higher gate size processes (sometimes to the point of not being usefully measured in nanometres any more, 90nm is still dreaming territory) are being sold for reasonably cheap -- someone got the old gear/bought an old fab going cheap (cheaper to build from scratch I guess) and tweaked the lithography to be more amenable to small runs.
I've actually built a small FAB in my garage. I was working on closed loop temperature controls using sapphire light pipes, which is why I did it. And I didn't actually use any of the dangerous gases (silane, phosphine, and arsine) used in actual IC work. Instead, I just backfilled the chamber with dry nitrogen, which is cheap and readily available. And it avoids the VERY DANGEROUS problem caused by having oxygen in the chamber when at high temps (the wafer would be as high as around 1500C in the chamber.) I used a lamp heated environment and water cooled quartz jacket with a nickel reflector chamber (couldn't afford a gold one!) Garden hose for the water. Could get something close to 200C/s rise temperatures in there!

One can actually build ICs in rather modest circumstances. But you do have to have some dangerous gases. States tend to control their use pretty tightly, once delivery is accepted. But cross-state shipments seem to be under almost NO controls (back when I was doing it, anyway.) So there was quite a contrast in applicable laws -- one set for purchase and transport across state boundaries; another completely different set once you've accepted an item and want to start using it.

Being old gear apparently yields are nothing special and as it was probably some knackered old wire bonding machine you are not going to have some of the more fun package sizes for the result either.
I've accepted unbonded dice from Hamamastu and then wire bonded them into specialized packages. I didn't find it difficult to get access to wire bonders I needed.

Apparently some are also offering it as a kind of FPGA to burned in silicon model as well but that might have been a slightly different one and I know little more there. I met the former in car electronics, well motorbike electronics but same difference really, a few years back where someone had a fairly nice controller for some lights and heads up display and that was apparently what happened.
Not sure what you are referring to. I've used FPGAs. But in this context, I guess, I'm not sure where you were headed with this.

I have the occasional discussion like this and most times I go looking I have not got something back like you can do for PCBs where you just fire off a gerber to a fairly high profile/modern site and bust out the credit card, it still being like it was 15 years ago where it was good to its friends/those in the know and that is not me. A pity really as an alibaba/aliexpress frontend could have some nice things happen, however as it spared me playing with spice I was not too upset.
Yeah. The PCB situation is very nice these days. But the IC tools are getting a lot more uniform, as well. But at the very small feature size it gets back to highly specialized tools again, which may vary for each process and FAB. One thing I do remember a bit about is that until recently (15 years ago) mask generation was pretty 'obvious'. The photomasks tended to look a lot like what was delivered on the resist layer. But as features grew small, the photomasks themselves had to take into account the distortions occurring in the image transfer process. I suppose the best way to describe it is that the image transfer itself applies a "transformation" of the source image (describable by a 2D FFT.) With small feature sizes this transformation is significant in the image plane. One needed to model the transformation and then back it out of the image plane in order to get the needed photomask that had to be produced. It's been a long time, though, and I don't know what is going on these days with features so small.

Probably pointless to think along these lines for Nintendo as I imagine they have real deals in place for their powerpc stuff and all the custom ARM stuff they have, however as you said if we are only contemplating remaking 80's gear and don't need it mil or (aero)space grade (such folks seem to be the main market for a lot of these old embedded chips, see also the occasionally amusing thing where customs/state department/similar gets in a tizzy because someone sold something that was in these old consoles to a country not on the Christmas card list) then it is possibly a different matter. Again I am a few years out now so it might have changed but back then it was a viable alternative, if you could handle the design side of things, to the FGPAs, CPLDs/PAL chips and microcontrollers of the day.
The problem with FPGAs is that they are big, power hungry, and expensive. And ASICs are getting downright close to PCB-like ease. Still, the process matters a lot, too. So you need process-aware toolsets. But it still seems like it is almost as easy now to just do an ASIC and be done with it. However, for example, when I worked in chipset testing at Intel we used huge cubes filled with FPGAs to emulate the next generation x86 before committing wafers and an expensive FAB to it. So they certainly have a place. I love the reconfigurability (and would have killed to have it, back in the 1970s) and have bunches of FPGA boards here at home. But they are over-kill for most consumer devices. ASICs are the way to go there.

(In my area, we needed very specialized photodetectors (using one process) and very specialized analog front ends (different process), and all of this had to be in a tiny sealed can with a tiny sapphire window that could be kept cool cheaply and without a huge stack of Peltiers. So wire-bonding was involved. But a custom package also was involved, too.)
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FAST6191

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #127 on: July 22, 2016, 04:08:39 am »
The FPGA stuff was a different but related thing (you are still ultimately getting some custom silicon you promoted yourself) I saw where apparently some would take the transistor arrangements that FPGAs ultimately work under (not sure what goes with the modern approaches with the premade memory cells) and burn you some silicon using it. The end result would be way oversized, inefficient by most metrics and probably expensive but still able to do higher clocks, gobble less current and hopefully dodge the need for programming and odd voltages that most FPGAs still seem to want.

I would be hesitant to receive anything other than a package, however I reckon if all those cheap things can deadbug it and stick a blob a blob of epoxy over then I might have to look back into this.

I agree FPGAs are not the golden toy some think they are, however they do seem to be fit for task for a lot of consumer gear these days. Some even quite beefy as well -- there was a great presentation a few years back on reusing old FPGA devices to build clusters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQb7b71Zn4A
If you are still more in the 80s/early 90s mindset for FPGAs then maybe have a look what goes today. Big, power hungry and expensive is still the case but small enough to fit even with the programming and headers and whatever else you want for operation, still doable under battery power and still possibly cheaper than an ASIC run for board volumes up in the tens of thousands is what goes.
At the same time there are things with substantial gate counts (plus the inclusion of a lot of memory so you don't have to spend lots on making it) that are not even dedicated hobbyist as much as one with a couple of hundred to spare. As Wall street got into it as well it only drove prices down further too.

I will have to look into homebrew fab though, I have been thinking about putting together some cleanroom stuff for some other things and that might tip the balance there towards making it more viable, assuming particle counts/sizes required are similar anyway.

Spooniest

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #128 on: July 22, 2016, 06:53:09 am »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAGVilt3Rls

Nintendo have put out a commercial for the Mini NES. ...The music sounds like Van Halen was given about 14,000 metric tons of esspresso. :D

Pretty neat lookin' I think. I realize many are unmoved by the limitations of the thing, but I'm gonna try to get one.
Yamero~~!

FAST6191

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #129 on: July 22, 2016, 07:57:33 am »
Wow I guess which exec's kid made that awful smash brothers video a few years ago has now finished video maker school.

jonk

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #130 on: July 22, 2016, 10:14:52 am »
I would be hesitant to receive anything other than a package, however I reckon if all those cheap things can deadbug it and stick a blob a blob of epoxy over then I might have to look back into this.
It's not so bad. But I also get the point about letting those who do this stuff all the time put the dies into their carriers and do the wirebonding and epoxy packaging for you.

I agree FPGAs are not the golden toy some think they are, however they do seem to be fit for task for a lot of consumer gear these days. Some even quite beefy as well -- there was a great presentation a few years back on reusing old FPGA devices to build clusters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQb7b71Zn4A
Oh, I absolutely LOVE FPGAs. I grew up wirewrapping 7400 series packages into a computer. Got written up by the local papers. That was 1974. "Kid builds computer" kind of thing. Hillsboro Argus was the paper's name. I was 19 years old at the time. After all that effort back then, I think people today live in heaven on earth now and they just don't realize it. FPGAs are a dream come true for me. What galls me is that they are so easy to use today and so readily available and pretty much "no one" understands the god-sent paradise they live in and just how easy it is to learn how to design real, working cpus of their own! Cripes. I literally would have killed for an FPGA in the 1970s and I can only imagine what Turing would have done for a working FPGA board in the late 1940's! People simply have no idea what they have at their hands.

If you are still more in the 80s/early 90s mindset for FPGAs then maybe have a look what goes today. Big, power hungry and expensive is still the case but small enough to fit even with the programming and headers and whatever else you want for operation, still doable under battery power and still possibly cheaper than an ASIC run for board volumes up in the tens of thousands is what goes.
I continually get new boards. I think I have a dozen here now. I may also buy Digilent's Nexys 4 Artix-7 FPGA Trainer Board, soon, too. (I still don't really trust the automated floorplanning in the tools I use, though.)

I will have to look into homebrew fab though, I have been thinking about putting together some cleanroom stuff for some other things and that might tip the balance there towards making it more viable, assuming particle counts/sizes required are similar anyway.
You pretty much need to figure out your process steps, though. The chemicals used in big FABs aren't often (or ever) available to homebrew. Some years ago, I could get arsine shipped from California to my door in Oregon for about $50 and no questions. I've seen that stuff shipped by FedEx and delivered by a totally ignorant man who had NO IDEA what he was carrying in. We kept them in a triple-vault system and that stuff has a TLV of 50 parts per billion. It's DANGEROUS. But in comes the FedEx employee asking for a signature like it was any other package. The US can be pretty slack on cross-state shipping, I guess. That's probably changed some. I made some calls to the Department of Transportation after that event. Something might be different now, especially since a canister of that stuff would make a great way to kill thousands of people real quick and easy. But 20 years ago, it was trivial to get. You will need some connections, plus spend a lot of money making it safe to use. Same with silane, where a canister of that could completely tear apart a steel cabinet made of 1/2 inch steel walls. And phosphine is no slouch, either. There are much safer chemicals that can be used on truly homebrew stuff, if all you want to do is make a solar cell or something. But IC wafers? I'd be interested in what you come up with, if you do seriously engage it. I was happy enough to just work on my temperature control systems and use safe gases, at home. The worst I had to worry about was a fire. And I could handle that.

Bell Labs actually put out a kit for making a chamber and making a solar cell, back in the 1960s, for kids and their families:
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MathUser2929

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #131 on: July 22, 2016, 10:32:50 am »
The controller cord is really short.



You'll wanna grab one of these:



Pretty much like getting a WiiU, buying a hard drive is optional but it can make your life better if you get one. Same thing with the short controller cords.

MisterJones

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #132 on: July 22, 2016, 12:36:04 pm »
a hard drive? what for
_-|-_

Chronosplit

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #133 on: July 22, 2016, 12:50:56 pm »
a hard drive? what for
From what I hear it doesn't have a direct connection to the VC, but you can get more games from your own Wii-U by using a controller from yours.  I guess a hard drive can store them so it's not a hassle?

FAST6191

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #134 on: July 22, 2016, 01:13:37 pm »
On FPGAs I reckon if they have their arduino moment then things will change. I have toyed with some of the new stuff and it is far nicer than old school VHDL and Verilog but not quite enough to tip things, it might even be one of the best candidates for a visual programming language for general use. Equally boards and embedded electronics are nice but I want a PCI card, or I guess USB3.0 with the crazy speeds and low latencies. I truly think the PCI card method is the direction emulators are heading as well. My main hope right now is something interesting shakes loose from the high frequency trading folks.

On this fab at home stuff I think I would want to go and work in one first -- most of what I have comes from reverse engineering and books/classes rather than using it in anger. I doubt the very nice executive tour around Intel's New Mexico plant I had when I was 12 counts for much, though technically that means I could say I have seen it with my own eyes.

jonk

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #135 on: July 22, 2016, 01:23:38 pm »
On FPGAs I reckon if they have their arduino moment then things will change.
That would be cool!

One type of microcontroller also provided some "FPGA" peripheral unit, which allowed you to program I/O functionality -- seriously good stuff. It didn't catch on all that well. Higher part costs were part of it. Training barriers, another.

I have toyed with some of the new stuff and it is far nicer than old school VHDL and Verilog but not quite enough to tip things,
I'm definitely still a VHDL/Verilog and manual floorplanning guy.

it might even be one of the best candidates for a visual programming language for general use. Equally boards and embedded electronics are nice but I want a PCI card, or I guess USB3.0 with the crazy speeds and low latencies. I truly think the PCI card method is the direction emulators are heading as well. My main hope right now is something interesting shakes loose from the high frequency trading folks.
The tools needed to support PCI design are expensive, though the prices have come down a lot. Reflection wave equipment isn't nearly as cheap as incident wave. And once again, there is substantial education barriers here, too. I still keep some older ISA bus machines around because it is so darned easy to design and build an ISA bus board. PCI uses serpentine clock lines, and so on. It's a veritable pain. In fact, that is the real reason Intel developed it (I was working there in the group, so I know.) To raise the entry costs of developing motherboards so that they could cut down the number of manufacturers and competition and thereby increase profits. They sold it as "green." But that wasn't the real reason for it. That was the marketing reason.

On this fab at home stuff I think I would want to go and work in one first -- most of what I have comes from reverse engineering and books/classes rather than using it in anger. I doubt the very nice executive tour around Intel's New Mexico plant I had when I was 12 counts for much, though technically that means I could say I have seen it with my own eyes.
It would be fun to go and learn, directly. If you get a chance, go for it!!
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Kallisto

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #136 on: July 28, 2016, 04:14:29 pm »
The one thing I have about Nintendo, and their NES-mini is the tired old IPs they have been re-selling over, and over again. They have more IPs under NES that they forgot about.

and

I know Nintendo has a stigma against Fan-translators, so I know that part of the deal will never happen. At least SEGA has embraced the emulation scene in more intimate ways to my surprise.

EDIT:
Reading this thread, and now I got a better picture of what is up with this thing. That is pretty bad if the Mini-NES is way back in emulation.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 04:26:00 pm by Kallisto »

A.D.R.I.A.N

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #137 on: July 28, 2016, 11:53:49 pm »
I recently saw the trailer for the HD Mini-NES.
$59,99?, That's a bit expensive.
It would cost $1200 pesos here in Mexico.
Still buying it anyway.
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jonk

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #138 on: July 29, 2016, 01:19:53 am »
I recently saw the trailer for the HD Mini-NES.
$59,99?, That's a bit expensive.
It would cost $1200 pesos here in Mexico.
Still buying it anyway.
Some countries use a comma for a decimal (Germany, for example.) Isn't a Peso about a nickel or so?
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SunGodPortal

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Re: The HD Mini-NES is a thing.
« Reply #139 on: July 29, 2016, 01:58:18 am »
Quote
Isn't a Peso about a nickel or so?

Yes.
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