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Author Topic: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)  (Read 39777 times)

Bonk

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I think the initial PSP release had the same gallery as PS1 actually.  I need to go look that up to refresh my memory.

EDIT: Yep, it was in there.
Considering their PC port quality these days, is this really a bad thing?  I mean the only mainline "retro" FF ports I'd actually call nice on PC anymore are VII and VIII, and they're different cases because they're more-or-less refurbished versions of the PC ports instead.

Really? Any PC version of VII and VIII are pure horse shit without any mods. Even the new IX port is barely more than passable. The audio quality in IX is embarrassingly bad. Far worse than the original game. I don't know how anyone doing professional audio work can so incompetently process and encode audio.

Almost every FF PC Port is crap,the ones that aren't have ass backward porting design choices. (LR,Type-0).
X/X-2 I think are actually the only ones that are anything close to being a very good port.

Chaos Rush

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In my opinion, you should seriously consider using compression in order to keep the game MMC3+512kb PRG-ROM, but be able to expand the text as much as you'd like. I wrote a tool for this kind of cases, and I'd be gad to help in any way possible since I'm also a FF3 fan.

You don't need to instert anything in the ROM (at first) in order to try to compress the text and see how well different algorithms works.
CHR-RAM with MMC5 is just as much "illegal" as a 1MB MMC3. Neither is technically impossible, but neither was ever made by Nintendo.
Well that does kinda suck to hear, but at this point I think I'll just focus on finishing the script first and then see if it can somehow be shoved into a 512kb ROM. What I'm curious about though is if CHR-RAM with MMC5 will work on a real NES? Even if that combo was never done by Nintendo.

EDIT: I have an idea, I could make two versions of this, one with 1mb MMC5 and one with an abridged script with MMC3 and compression. The MMC5 version will have the script where many NPC's are word-for-word copied straight from the DS remake (but only if applicable, of course), while the MMC3 version would be approached more like how I did FF2 where I tried to reword things to make it as short as possible but get the same point across. (just so you guys know, my script is stored externally in text files, and my tool inserts them into the ROM, and I can revise the text without having to worry about pointers because my tool does all of that for me. It works exactly like the text editing tool I made for FF2)
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 09:41:42 am by Chaos Rush »

KingMike

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CHR-RAM with MMC5 is just as much "illegal" as a 1MB MMC3. Neither is technically impossible, but neither was ever made by Nintendo.
I think Flash carts use 512+512 to emulate the PRG+CHR of the largest official game, Metal Slader Glory.
If that's what this question was...?
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"It's a little fortuitous that the Wii is running out of hardware."

Bregalad

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Well that does kinda suck to hear, but at this point I think I'll just focus on finishing the script first and then see if it can somehow be shoved into a 512kb ROM.
Indeed, you should work on a script without thinking 1st on how it'll fit.


Quote
What I'm curious about though is if CHR-RAM with MMC5 will work on a real NES? Even if that combo was never done by Nintendo.
Both a 1024k PRG-ROM MMC3 and a cart with MMC5 and CHR-RAM are technically feasible on hardware, but neither has ever been done by Nintendo, and both could be done different ways, yelding to different results.

In MMC3's case, the existing 2nd FF3j trasnslation assumes it works exactly like a 512k MMC3, with one bit added to PRG registers. If Nintendo actually did such a thing, very likely they'd do exactly like they did for SUROM in MMC1, allowing to use the original unodified MMC3, but having two sets "fixed" banks. Doing it with a single fixed bank requires developping a new version of the MMC3 or adding a fully-custom chip to an existing MMC3 (probably doable with a PAL chip or several 74xx logic chips).

In MMC5's case, what is ambigious is how CHR lines would be wired. MMC5 hardware itself is much more complex so I cannot predict exactly how that'll happen, however you could bankswitch it in small 1kb banks, or have it being hardwired to a single 8kb block.

Quote
EDIT: I have an idea, I could make two versions of this, one with 1mb MMC5 and one with an abridged script with MMC3 and compression. The MMC5 version will have the script where many NPC's are word-for-word copied straight from the DS remake (but only if applicable, of course), while the MMC3 version would be approached more like how I did FF2 where I tried to reword things to make it as short as possible but get the same point across
Having 2 versions is indeed a great idea, but I believe both needs to have the same script. For instance, if the game really cannot fit in 512kb, we could choose between oversize MMC3 and MMC5 with CHR-RAM, both unofficial mappers.

However, the script is not the only thing that can be compressed. A quick glance at FF3's ROM reveals tons of uncompressed graphics. If we can somehow get them to be compressed, then we could save a temendous amounts of ROM space.

Reiska

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I've actually already adjusted the sizes of nearly all of the menus, as shown in the screenshots. I did think about having 1-item per row, but then there's also the in-battle item menu, which I'm trying to expand. Currently the in-battle item menu is still restricted to 8-character item names, so I have the in-battle item menu use a separate set of strings and use an ellipsis for longer item names:

Not the most attractive solution, but it'll do until I can figure out how to expand that particular menu.
Good question. I mean, since FF Restored has it, and since FFII Refurbished has it, then it would be a good idea for FFIII Refurbished to have it too. However, FFIII has characters following you at certain points in the game. So at some point I'll definitely look into adding a B-Button dash (I'll just port over SpiderDave's routine that he made me for FFII over to FFIII), hopefully it won't cause any problems with additional characters that are following.

ad0220's patch has a B-button dash, and it does have some quirks, namely that it's difficult to actually use when you have an NPC following you without triggering their dialogue, and if you DO manage to trigger it, they start clipping through walls and stuff trying to follow you.

Rodimus Primal

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Maybe if like you have it turned off when on the world map, you have it turned off if characters are following you.

Kea

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This is really cool :thumbsup:

I have a soft spot for the brevity of the AWJ script, but a definitive translation that renders everything as it was meant to be shown is a great thing to make.

Heaven Piercing Man

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I've actually already adjusted the sizes of nearly all of the menus, as shown in the screenshots. I did think about having 1-item per row, but then there's also the in-battle item menu, which I'm trying to expand. Currently the in-battle item menu is still restricted to 8-character item names, so I have the in-battle item menu use a separate set of strings and use an ellipsis for longer item names:

Not the most attractive solution, but it'll do until I can figure out how to expand that particular menu.

This is totally fine, so don't feel bad if you can't implement longer item names in the battle menu. But if so, try to use ellipses only when it looks good. G.Needle and HiPotion work better in those cases, for example.

Chaos Rush

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Maybe if like you have it turned off when on the world map, you have it turned off if characters are following you.
Yeah that's probably the best solution.

This is really cool :thumbsup:

I have a soft spot for the brevity of the AWJ script, but a definitive translation that renders everything as it was meant to be shown is a great thing to make.
Thanks for making the MMC5 patch! To be honest when I decided to use it I didn't know much about how mappers work, all I knew was that the ad0220 translation used an 'illegal' combination and that supposedly MMC5 is the proper way to do a 1mb expansion. But according to Bregalad, since FFIII uses CHR-RAM, it brings to concern whether or not this is still a valid solution because CHR + MMC5 had never been done officially. Oh well, I'm already about fifth done with the new script, might as well just keep going and figure out what to do with it later. (But personally, I'm content with your mapper patch because it works fine on my Wii using FCEUGX, but once the script is done I'm gonna ask Bregalad about ways it could be compressed to 512kb)

Anyhow, I said otherwise earlier, but I have decided to take a look at the existing translations as well (and both are very good IMO, and are leagues above the FFII Demiforce translation in terms of accuracy). Even though the ad0220 translation is the 'fuller' one, it seems , I find that the AWJ translation is more accurate. Obviously the AWJ translation leaves sentences out for space reasons, but IMO the stuff that made it in is more accurate compared to the equivalent sentence in the ad0220 translation.

I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to be all obnoxious and "this is what it's MEANT to be like! yarharhar!" with this translation, I'm just doing pretty much the same thing I did with FFII. While one could ask "why don't you just clean up the AWJ or ad0220 translation?", to me that just wouldn't feel 'right' do to because when I did FFII, I analyzed and compared the Famicom and GBA versions side-by-side, and since I want to play an English NES version of FFIII with the modern spell and item names, I figured I should do exactly what I did with FFII and compare the original and remake and borrow the Square Enix-translated material from the remake for the portions of the content that are identical to the original Famicom releases. It's hard to explain exactly what I'm doing to produce this new script, but all that matters is that:

* it'll be accurate to the original (not that the existing translations aren't, because they are, I'm just making a new one with that fits with modern Square Enix continuity)

* anything from the original that remained in the remake untouched will be as it is in the remake's localization

* while I'm nowhere near fluent in Japanese, I can read, write, and speak, and I can do it well enough to discern whether or not "oh they completely changed this in the remake"

* my mother and brother are fluent and I can ask them anything I'm not sure about or can't figure out on my own

* I'm looking at both the AWJ  and ad0220 translations as well, so if you trust those you sure as hell can trust this one

* I've committed to studying Japanese every day, and I've been committed to it since June and I won't stop any time soon

* I hope y'all trust me and what I'm doing, and if you don't, feel free to do a Legends of Localization-style analysis of my FFII translation patch :) (heck, feel free to do it with the screens I've provided so far of FFIII)

I know it's weird to be making a translation patch when you're not fully fluent in the original language, but I hope you all understand that I have a rather unique situation regarding Japanese (having been born there and went to pre-school/youchien there, but moved to America at a young age) and that I'm able to do a project like this with the resources I have available to me. (Sorry, I felt the need to explain this because I don't want to give off a false impression that I'm capable of translating an RPG from scratch like Tomato did with Mother 3, because I'm not, and I know some might think it's wrong to make a translation patch when you're not fully fluent in the language) When I'm done with this, I definitely want to try my hand at translating myself a game that hasn't been translated yet (preferably a small, simple Famicom game, like a puzzle game or a platformer or something)

Anyhow, here's some progress screenshots:


These NPC's in particular have the exact same dialogue that they do in the DS remake:
« Last Edit: July 18, 2016, 11:51:32 pm by Chaos Rush »

Panzer88

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Thanks forthe update, we're looking forward to it. Is there anything like what you've done for ff2 and ff3 for ff1?
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jobless_floppy

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I'm definitely looking forward to this, I love the idea  :thumbsup:. Also I believe back in his FF2 thread he mentioned that there were already more than enough hacks attempting to fix/polish up FF1 but FF2 and FF3 hadn't really been touched.

Chaos Rush

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Thanks forthe update, we're looking forward to it. Is there anything like what you've done for ff2 and ff3 for ff1?
There's Final Fantasy Restored by AstralEsper, which while billed as a bugfix patch, actually contains a new English script that is influenced heavily by the PS1 and GBA versions. It's great, and is what made me want to do the same for FF2 and now FF3.

Rodimus Primal

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While I love Restored, there are two things I don't care for. One was the updated font. I remedied that with my Font Options patches. The second is there is something about the bugfixes that screws with the accuracy of attacks. I noticed that I tend to miss a lot more. Still, the Restored content, the better script, and the addition of the title screen make it my personal favorite as a definitive FFI.

I enjoyed your FFII translation and I look forward to finally having a worthy FFIII translation.

Asaki

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Even though the ad0220 translation is the 'fuller' one, it seems , I find that the AWJ translation is more accurate. Obviously the AWJ translation leaves sentences out for space reasons, but IMO the stuff that made it in is more accurate compared to the equivalent sentence in the ad0220 translation.

I recall having a similar opinion when I A/B'd them. Also, the AWJ text is a bit easier on the eyes, since it doesn't bunch the lines so close together.

But AWJ gets the win for actually running on the EDN8, so... =) I tried asking about the custom MMC3 mapper at the Everdrive forum, but nobody replied...but if it's true that there's no 1mb support, then I guess it's a moot point anyway.

(Sorry, I felt the need to explain this because I don't want to give off a false impression that I'm capable of translating an RPG from scratch like Tomato did with Mother 3, because I'm not, and I know some might think it's wrong to make a translation patch when you're not fully fluent in the language)

I wouldn't worry about it. It seems like the Japanese is so difficult to convey in English, and there's so many folklore references, things like that, almost every translation is going to have issues, no matter how fluent you are. And it always seems like when there's an issue, two or three people will pipe up with opinions on how a word or a line should be translated.


John Enigma

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Try to see this "retrospective" article about Final Fantasy III, even if it's just Kotaku.

Chaos Rush

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The script is currently about 40-45% done, up to the Gulgan Gulch dialogue. Here's some screens:



I'm really hoping I'll be able to finish this before summer ends. One reason why progress is moving a lot faster than when I did FF2, is if you all remember around August-September 2015 when I first started working on FF2, I had made a rather shoddy text editing tool for it (called FinalText), as it was my first text editor, and it only let me compile one offset at a time (the only programming language I knew then was VB, which doesn't really count IMO). If you remember back in December, I then made a new text editing tool that supported dynamic text compiling (called CastleFynn), as by then I had started learning Java so I was able to develop a much better tool, and then progress suddenly moved at a much faster pace because of how much more efficient my tool was (no longer had to worry about offsets). The tool I developed for FF3 reuses a lot of code from my FF2 tool, so right off the bat I have dynamic text compiling, which makes me not have to worry about repointing text and stuff, so I guess that would explain why progress on this is moving a lot faster than when I did FF2.

One difference though is that when I was comparing FF2's GBA script, I was able to compare the text just by running FF Dawn of Souls on VBA and using the speed-up function. I can't do that with FF3 since DS emulation is meh on my PC, so instead I have to actually compare using my 3DS and my Final Fantasy III cartridge.

Anyhow, I probably won't post any more screens until I'm finished, considering I'm moving at a pace faster than I thought I would. I hope to finish this by the end of summer, but I can't make any promises. If not by the end of summer, then hopefully by the end of 2016. Thank you all for your support!

Panzer88

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Thanks for the update. It's a shock how quickly you'reable to go but exciting none the less. Keep up the great work!
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Chronosplit

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Wow, already we're at 40%!

I feel your pain about DS Emus.  I tend to just run DraStic on my tablet instead at this point. :P

Asaki

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Man, that sounds tedious. I would've got burnt-out so quick translating that way.

Chaos Rush

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #79 on: August 02, 2016, 01:11:16 pm »
Some screens of my current progress with the script:



Also, a funny thing regarding differences between the Famicom and DS versions that I'd like to point out regarding the scene after the world flood is cleared:

In the DS remake, it shows Luneth waking up, with Arc, Refia, and Ingus standing around him already awake, while in the Famicom version, the dialogue implies they all wake up at the same time, and a little girl walks up to them telling them that they're in Amur and that her grandfather found them in the Temple of Water. In the DS remake, they removed the little girl and broke up her dialogue, tweaked it a bit, and assigned the sentences to Arc, Refia, and Ingus, while Luneth is all "where am I?" and stuff. But they made a rather awkward error in doing so, because Arc actually says, "Gramps found us in the Temple of Water", which makes no sense because you have no idea who the hell Arc is referring to when he says "Gramps". Makes you wonder what Square Enix was thinking when they did that...