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Author Topic: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)  (Read 45409 times)

KingMike

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I didn't even know there was a 3DS version of Final Fantasy 1 until just now, although I'm guessing it's just a port of the version already available on PSP, iOS, and Steam.
It's an eShop game, similar to the 3D remaster games.
I've seen it adds in the PS1/PSP CG opening video (which has been redone in 3D), and I think from the manual stated (but I'm not certain) that the art gallery (which was PS1-exclusive, I think) was included but locked until finishing the game.
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Chronosplit

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I think the initial PSP release had the same gallery as PS1 actually.  I need to go look that up to refresh my memory.

EDIT: Yep, it was in there.

FF1 and 2 are curiously missing from Steam.
Considering their PC port quality these days, is this really a bad thing?  I mean the only mainline "retro" FF ports I'd actually call nice on PC anymore are VII and VIII, and they're different cases because they're more-or-less refurbished versions of the PC ports instead.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 11:59:53 am by Chronosplit »

Midna

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Squeenix really could have done a lot better for the PC ports of the SNES games than literally slap the iOS versions of the games on Steam and go "meh, good enough". Probably the funniest example: In the iOS versions of V and I think VI, there's a button on-screen that you hold down when you want to run. In the Steam versions, they took out the button's functionality, not the button itself. So you have a giant button on the side of the screen whenever you're walking around on the overworld that does absolutely nothing.

John Enigma

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^Not to mention the ugly graphics they gave to the Steam ports.

I was expecting the Steam ports of FF V and VI to have the same graphics as the GBA version, or the PSP version. But nope.

Goes to show you that Square-Enix are a bunch of lazy mf'ers.

Vanya

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There are MODs in the works to fix most of if not all the issues with the iOS ports they moved to Steam.
Pathetic that the fans have to be the ones to finish their work.
And then they are surprised when people complain and take matters into their own hands.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 01:32:54 pm by Vanya »

Chronosplit

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There wasn't a PSP version, just GBA.  And those were totally screwed anyways between screen size and color.  No easy way around it, they would either need to use the SNES graphics or the mobile ones.  And the mobile ones are fit for screen stretching.

To be fair with the surprise, Square these days seem to be pretty out of touch (for example: "people in America like FFVI? We had no idea!"). Dunno who to blame for that.  They always did have a weird view of us anyway, I mean look at Mystic Quest. :P

The mods aren't a bad effort honestly, from what I've seen most of it's just fixing it like GBA VI (then again, the majority of SNES hacks to this are bug fixes).  VII's always had some rockin' stuff including the retranslation.  I bet if Tactics made it over, first order of business would be the slowdown patch (yes, the same method as PSP more-or-less works on iOS with it's own fix, though Android isn't there with an application method yet.)
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 08:21:22 pm by Chronosplit »

Panzer88

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I'm very excited for this. A lot of times older games get looked over if there is a newer version, thank you for doing this.
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KillerBob

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Magic Knight is a bit of a weird case. In the original FFIII, they could use low level White Magic. In the remake, Square Enix turned them into full-on Dark Knights (like Cecil from FFIV) and even gave them the Souleater/Darkness ability that was original introduced in FFIV, and named them as such in the localization. However, the term they use for that class in the Japanese remake is the same as the original (まけんし) at least according to this page, while only the localization of the DS version calls them "Dark Knight"s. The Japanese term for the Dark Knight class used in FFIV is あんこくきし (literal: Darkness Knight), which is different from the term they use for the class in FFIII, まけんし (literal: Magic Swordsman).

Ultimately, I felt it would be misleading to call them Dark Knights in this translation because they lack the Souleater/Darkness ability and can use low-level White Magic, so I went with "Magic Knight".
I see, interesting. Never played the remake so I didn't know about this difference. I think you're doing the right choice by keeping the original class name.

This is correct, but why it was different takes a little explaining.  Unlike later games, summon spells in FFIII are a little different in naming.  Probably due to actually being three spells (evoker and summoner combined).  The NES fan translations all completely missed this one before, and just went by the established names of summon spells in IV onward figuring they were old summon names or something. They really don't fit that way however and the DS version always had them correctly translated.
I have only played the "AWJ-translation" but I'm pretty sure this particular shortcoming was only due to the limited ROM space they had to work with rather than a mistake by those involved. I really liked what they did back then, but the extended ROM space available to Chaos Rush will certainly make things a lot nicer. Thanks for doing this, Chaos! Definitely one of my favorites in the series.

SC

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Magic Knight is a bit of a weird case. In the original FFIII, they could use low level White Magic. In the remake, Square Enix turned them into full-on Dark Knights (like Cecil from FFIV) and even gave them the Souleater/Darkness ability that was original introduced in FFIV, and named them as such in the localization. However, the term they use for that class in the Japanese remake is the same as the original (まけんし) at least according to this page, while only the localization of the DS version calls them "Dark Knight"s. The Japanese term for the Dark Knight class used in FFIV is あんこくきし (literal: Darkness Knight), which is different from the term they use for the class in FFIII, まけんし (literal: Magic Swordsman).

Ultimately, I felt it would be misleading to call them Dark Knights in this translation because they lack the Souleater/Darkness ability and can use low-level White Magic, so I went with "Magic Knight".

Just to remind you, 魔剣士(makenshi) actually means Cursed/Evil-Sword Warrior, so that justifies the change on the DS version.

KillerBob

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Just to remind you, 魔剣士(makenshi) actually means Cursed/Evil-Sword Warrior, so that justifies the change on the DS version.
That explains it. That pesky old 魔 seems to be tough to translate well, you always see everything from demon, magic, to evil or dark.

Chaos Rush

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Just to remind you, 魔剣士(makenshi) actually means Cursed/Evil-Sword Warrior, so that justifies the change on the DS version.
I figured the 'ま' stemmed from the word 'まほう' (magic/sorcery), since they use the same kanji (also the FF wiki translates it as Magic Swordsman).

But nonetheless, do you think I should stick with Magic Knight or should I rename it something else? It's hard to justify calling them Dark Knights because in the original FFIII they can use White Magic and they lack the Souleater ability. Not to mention that the word they use for Dark Knights in FFIV is あんこくきし, which is different from まけんし/魔剣士 as they're called in all Japanese versions of FFIII (even the remake). I'm open to suggestions.

SC

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I would keep it as Magic Knight in this case (can't be very evil if it uses White Magic, right?). I was trying to point out how the change in the DS remake made sense.
Fun thing about japanese is there's more than one meaning with kanjis, and 魔 is one such kanji which is often used to convey more than one meaning.

Chronosplit

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I remember hearing once that it can use dark swords because of magic willpower or whatever that somehow means it uses white magic.  That is not a Dark Knight.

Keep it Magic, unless you can think of something that better suits a job that can use a dark sword but dark themselves.  The DS version had some logic behind the change, NES flatout doesn't.

SC

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What's the tile/string limit here for class names, anyway?

Chaos Rush

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What's the tile/string limit here for class names, anyway?
Job titles have been expanded to 12 characters and all menus that display it have been readjusted accordingly. I moved the level indicator in the main menu a row down (a side effect of this is that the main menu now displays the level in green), moved the job title in the stats screen to the next row, and the Job menu is now single-spaced.


SC

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Well, I guess Magic Knight's gonna be the best fit here!

How about changing "Precis.%" into "Accuracy" and deleting the redundant % in "Evasion%"?

Are you doing extensive asm hacking on this game, or just changing some bits here and there?
There's some cosmetic changes that could be possible with some assembly, but I don't know if it's worth the effort, so...

Chaos Rush

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Well, I guess Magic Knight's gonna be the best fit here!

How about changing "Precis.%" into "Accuracy" and deleting the redundant % in "Evasion%"?
I will do that! Funny thing is, the DS version doesn't even display Accuracy in the stats screen, so I went with the term that was used in the GBA version of Final Fantasy IV (yes, IV lol); I now realize that that's silly since Square Enix themselves are inconsistent with the terms they use for stats in their official releases (also I just found out, the DS version of FFIV calls it Accuracy, which gets the point across a lot clearer IMO). And the reason why I had the "%" there after Precision and Evasion is just for visual continuity with the SNES version of FFIV, but I can see why some would think it looks weird so I'm probably gonna change it.

Are you doing extensive asm hacking on this game, or just changing some bits here and there?
There's some cosmetic changes that could be possible with some assembly, but I don't know if it's worth the effort, so...
I'm not sure what qualifies as "extensive ASM hacking", but nonetheless there has been some light ASM hacking involved, such as getting the game to load the text banks from the added PRG banks (I had some help from Disch with that). I've also had to do some light ASM hacking to expand the sizes of the menus, usually it just involves me setting breakpoints on certain offsets while taking a look at FCEUX's PPU viewer and finding the relevant code that controls the menu sizes from there. There's also a bunch of small byte changes I've had to make to expand the windows in the battle menu and the little 'transition' animations they make when disappearing to display another menu.

As for the actual content of the menus themselves, no ASM is required to rearrange stuff because believe it or not, almost every menu in FFIII (also FFII, which I can confirm, and most likely FFI too) is controlled by really large text strings. For instance, this is the actual text string for the Stats menu as it is right now:
Code: [Select]
[14][0C][14][14][FF][10][02]
 [10][01][14][0F]Job Level [10][3D]
 Level [10][3E][14][10][8E]XP [10][32]
[14][08]For Next Lv.:[10][FF]
 HP [10][30][/][10][31]
 MP [10][80][/][10][81][/][10][82][/][10][83][/][10][84][/][10][85][/][10][86][/][10][87]

Strength[.][10][38][14][0D]Attack [10][46]x[.][10][33]
 Agility[.][10][39][14][0D]Precis.%[14][17][C3] [10][42]
Vitality[.][10][3A][14][0D]Defense[10][47]x[.][10][34]
Inte[A6]ect[.][10][3B][14][0D]Evasion%[14][17][C3] [10][41]
    Mind[.][10][3C][14][0D]Mag.Def[14][17][C3][10][36]
[14][0D]Mag.Eva   [.] [10][40]


It's really easy to alter the actual content of the menus themselves to whatever you want, as they're controlled entirely by text strings:



So if you have any suggestions, I'm all ears. Though I'm satisfied with the job title character limit as they are now, because the 12-character job titles that I've achieved sounds like a miracle compared to the 7-characters that they were limited to in the vanilla Japanese ROM.

EDIT: Did some tinkering with the Stats menu and ultimately settled on this:


EDIT: Tonight's update:


Also, this is how the magic-menu will look like in-battle:

(and let me tell ya, hacking the battle menus in FFIII is like 1000x easier than FFII because FFII uses that sliding battle menu with complicated coding, while FFIII's battle menus are a lot more simplistic coding-wise)


EDIT:

7/14/2016 progress:

« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 09:00:10 pm by Chaos Rush »

Asaki

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May I ask why not? Do NES flashcarts not support 1mb ROMs? I thought the reason why the ad0220 translation was unusable because it used a 1mb ROM while running the MMC3 mapper. My project uses Kea's MMC5 mapper patch, and the MMC5 mapper is a legal way to have 1mb PRG on the NES.

Flash carts have very poor MMC5 support :) Basically CV3 will mostly run, but nobody has stepped up to finish the mapper yet.

I don't know about a 1mb limit, that may be possible.

KingMike

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From what I read, the major NES flash carts can only support up to 512KB PRG + 512KB CHR (that's all the RAM they physically contain).
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Bregalad

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In my opinion, you should seriously consider using compression in order to keep the game MMC3+512kb PRG-ROM, but be able to expand the text as much as you'd like. I wrote a tool for this kind of cases, and I'd be gad to help in any way possible since I'm also a FF3 fan.

You don't need to instert anything in the ROM (at first) in order to try to compress the text and see how well different algorithms works.

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My project uses Kea's MMC5 mapper patch, and the MMC5 mapper is a legal way to have 1mb PRG on the NES.
CHR-RAM with MMC5 is just as much "illegal" as a 1MB MMC3. Neither is technically impossible, but neither was ever made by Nintendo.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 07:02:29 am by Bregalad »