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Author Topic: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)  (Read 59738 times)

Chaos Rush

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #100 on: August 10, 2016, 12:53:53 pm »
Well, the script is just about finished. Still need to translate the non-textbox text (such as the cast list in the credits), and also go back and correct any typo's as well as make some formatting adjustments due to some formatting decision changes I made midway through. Still haven't gotten around to implementing a B-Button dash lol, but I'll have that in before release.

I hope to release this by the end of this week maybe? I don't know when, but it's almost done, and it'll be out when it's out.

Here's some screens:


"The adoptive mother of the four orphans, Nina"

Well, it's certainly not wrong, but I prefer: "Nina, the adoptive mother of the four orphans"

Names often get put at the end of the modifier in Japanese, but I feel like putting the name at the front sounds more natural in English.

Maybe it's just me, though.

That's just my suggestion, of course. Take it or leave it.
I wanted to have the colon appear next to the name just so it's easier to tell who's speaking. That screenshot you're talking about is outdated though, since I've adjusted the formatting of that text since. I'll update the screens when the initial release is ready.

Tom

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #101 on: August 11, 2016, 04:25:58 am »
Re: "The adoptive mother of the four orphans, Nina" or "Nina, the adoptive mother of the four orphans"

Quote from: Chaos Rush
I wanted to have the colon appear next to the name just so it's easier to tell who's speaking. That screenshot you're talking about is outdated though, since I've adjusted the formatting of that text since. I'll update the screens when the initial release is ready.

I doubt anyone would think the four orphans were speaking (regardless of the formatting), but it's your call in the end. I just think it seems awkward that way, to have the name after the modifier. It has a very "translated" feel, which jars with how smooth the rest of your work has been.

I'm sorry to hear it won't be changed, but I'll drop the matter here. You're the one putting the work in, so you get to make the final decision.

Regardless, I'm looking forward to your refurbished patch. FF3 is one of my favorites.  :thumbsup:

linkncb16

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #102 on: August 12, 2016, 07:44:38 am »
I am so excited to see more work being done on my favorite game! One question though, why have you not changed the name of the Magic Knight to Dark Knight? I am currently a Japanese student and my understanding of the Japanese name Makenshi is that it is translated to either "Evil Swordsman" or "Magic Swordsman". Given that the 3D translation simply calls it Dark Knight, why not change it to that? Just in general I feel it makes a lot more sense given the job's role in this game especially.

August 12, 2016, 07:46:56 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Interestingly enough, in my hack of the JAP version I actually renamed the class Ankokukishi so that it would truly be what I consider to be the correct name.
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Midna

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #103 on: August 12, 2016, 10:34:17 am »
It could work either way. To my understanding, the NES version leans closer to the "magic swordsman" interpretation, being pretty much just a fighting class who can use magic, and the DS version leans closer to the "demonic swordsman" interpretation by using "evil"/dark-themed attacks and such, hence why it was localized as Dark Knight. I believe in the DS remake they have the Darkness ability that Cecil can use in FFIV, which may have contributed to the decision.

Chaos Rush

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #104 on: August 12, 2016, 11:02:46 am »
I am so excited to see more work being done on my favorite game! One question though, why have you not changed the name of the Magic Knight to Dark Knight? I am currently a Japanese student and my understanding of the Japanese name Makenshi is that it is translated to either "Evil Swordsman" or "Magic Swordsman". Given that the 3D translation simply calls it Dark Knight, why not change it to that? Just in general I feel it makes a lot more sense given the job's role in this game especially.

August 12, 2016, 07:46:56 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Interestingly enough, in my hack of the JAP version I actually renamed the class Ankokukishi so that it would truly be what I consider to be the correct name.
There was a whole discussion about this topic on the earlier pages. Basically, I am choosing to go with, "Magic Knight", because as you already know, the JP FFIII and JP FFIV (both original and remakes) uses a different term for that particular class. JP FFIII calls it Makenshi/まけんし, while JP FFIV calls it Ankokukishi/あんこくきし. While in the DS remake of FFIII, they changed the class to basically be identical to Dark Knights from FFIV in all but name by making them unable to use any white magic and giving them the souleater ability, I believe that they should be treated as different classes if we're talking about the original Famicom version of FFIII, because in the original FFIII, that class can use low-level white magic and lack the Souleater/Darkness ability, and as mentioned before they're named differently between FFIII and FFIV. When they made FFIV, I don't believe that Cecil was based on the Makenshi class from FFIII, I believe that they made an entirely new class for him (Ankokukishi), which is localized as the Dark Knight. Also, as mentioned by SC on an earlier page, an accurate translation of Makenshi would be "Cursed/Evil-Sword Warrior", but for the sake of character limits and localization and other reasons explained above, I am going with Magic Knight.

When this project is released and when I release my text editing tool for it later, I would gladly welcome any addendum patches anyone would feel like making if they disagree with the choices that I have made, as ultimately that would make everyone happy, so then everyone wins.

linkncb16

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #105 on: August 12, 2016, 03:48:26 pm »
Magic Knight is a bit of a weird case. In the original FFIII, they could use low level White Magic. In the remake, Square Enix turned them into full-on Dark Knights (like Cecil from FFIV) and even gave them the Souleater/Darkness ability that was original introduced in FFIV, and named them as such in the localization. However, the term they use for that class in the Japanese remake is the same as the original (まけんし) at least according to this page, while only the localization of the DS version calls them "Dark Knight"s. The Japanese term for the Dark Knight class used in FFIV is あんこくきし (literal: Darkness Knight), which is different from the term they use for the class in FFIII, まけんし (literal: Magic Swordsman).

Ultimately, I felt it would be misleading to call them Dark Knights in this translation because they lack the Souleater/Darkness ability and can use low-level White Magic, so I went with "Magic Knight".

Yeah, that makes sense. The reason I changed the name to あんこくきし in my hack is because I actually removed the ability to use White Magic (never made sense to me anyway) and changed the stats so that it functions more like a traditional Dark Knight. I wish I knew how to edit the formulas of Job abilities and stuff. Maybe I could have given him the Darkness/ Soul Eater ability that way :/
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Reiska

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #106 on: August 13, 2016, 09:25:39 am »
Just to toss something else weird into the ring that might not have been considered... could also use "Rune Fencer"?  FF11 uses this translation for its "魔導剣士" class, which is not exactly the same but is close.

Chronosplit

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #107 on: August 13, 2016, 11:16:25 am »
Just to toss something else weird into the ring that might not have been considered... could also use "Rune Fencer"?  FF11 uses this translation for its "魔導剣士" class, which is not exactly the same but is close.
FF11 uses a different terminology for a lot of things.   Usually they're not the best ideas in the world to use in much else for the same reason as FFT's PSP/Mobile translation, because they tend to not fit if you don't go with overly stylized dialog.

Yeah, that makes sense. The reason I changed the name to あんこくきし in my hack is because I actually removed the ability to use White Magic (never made sense to me anyway) and changed the stats so that it functions more like a traditional Dark Knight. I wish I knew how to edit the formulas of Job abilities and stuff. Maybe I could have given him the Darkness/ Soul Eater ability that way :/
I remember reading once that the reasoning behind the class was that it was pure enough to use White Magic and had the willpower to resist the influence of dark weapons enough to use them.  Or something like that.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 11:53:15 pm by Chronosplit »

Vanya

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #108 on: August 13, 2016, 11:08:42 pm »
I remember ages ago translating the class names for Magic Swordsman. In fact before I added the translation to the various wikis they were almost all calling them Dark Knights. So obviously, I'm all for the use of Magic Knight as it is a fine middle ground.

If I were going to do addendum patches, I'd probably make at least 3. One that goes full Dark Knight, similarly to FF3ds, but with black magic in place of the white magic. I'd do another that goes full Paladin with a shiny new sprite and the Dark Swords edited into Holy Swords. And the last patch would go full Mage Knight and use both black and white magic in conjunction with the Dark Swords being turned into Magic Swords and another new sprite based on the FFV Magic Fencer.

Chronosplit

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #109 on: August 13, 2016, 11:52:15 pm »
So in the first patch the Magic Knight is turned somewhat closer to DQVI's idea, and the last one is kind of like a buffed Red Mage?

That's a really interesting way of doing it.  Maybe it would even give the class some more use.

Chaos Rush

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #110 on: August 13, 2016, 11:57:49 pm »
For now I'm sticking with Magic Knight as I feel it's the most appropriate given that they can use white magic in this, and if anyone disagrees, I openly encourage making an addendum patch.

With that said, I don't think I can get a release out this weekend. Though the script is finished, I'm still polishing things up and making formatting adjustments. Initially I had formatted the important character dialogue in the same way that I did FF2 where I didn't bother placing a space at the beginning of a line when an important character spoke (I did that to save space), but halfway through doing this I decided I'm going to format the important character dialogue like the way FF4 on SNES does it, meaning that there's a space at the beginning of each line. I decided to do this because it looks more professional (in my opinion, at least), and the only reason why I didn't do it in FF2 was to save space in the ROM, which is unnecessary for FF3 because of the MMC5 ROM expansion.

My goal is to have this released by either Tuesday or Wednesday, but I can't make any promises. Either way, it will be released soon so stay tuned everyone...

« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 12:06:21 am by Chaos Rush »

linkncb16

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #111 on: August 14, 2016, 08:26:09 am »
I remember ages ago translating the class names for Magic Swordsman. In fact before I added the translation to the various wikis they were almost all calling them Dark Knights. So obviously, I'm all for the use of Magic Knight as it is a fine middle ground.

If I were going to do addendum patches, I'd probably make at least 3. One that goes full Dark Knight, similarly to FF3ds, but with black magic in place of the white magic. I'd do another that goes full Paladin with a shiny new sprite and the Dark Swords edited into Holy Swords. And the last patch would go full Mage Knight and use both black and white magic in conjunction with the Dark Swords being turned into Magic Swords and another new sprite based on the FFV Magic Fencer.
Black magic would be interesting, that would make it more like a Magic Knight I guess. But how would making the class into a Paladin make any sense? O.o There is already a Knight class for that and (in my patch) the Knight class is capable of using level 1-3 White Magic. The last idea for the Magic Knight I really like though. That works even better since dividing enemies aren't affected by magic, so magic blades would make even more sense. I wish I would have done that in my hack... Instead I gave the Scholar class the ability to use level      1-3 Black and White Magic.

August 14, 2016, 08:28:47 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Oh and a quick question, will the text editing tool be able to edit the Japanese text in game? Also, if I edit the Japanese text, how will it turn out once an English patch is applied?
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KingMike

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #112 on: August 14, 2016, 11:49:29 am »
If you edit Japanese text and then apply an English patch it's probably going to just out as garbage English text, since NES games don't (most of the time) have room for fonts for both languages.
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Chaos Rush

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #113 on: August 17, 2016, 03:03:20 am »
Guess what guys, this project is finished! v1.0 has been submitted to RHDN, but while we're waiting for it to be approved, you can get it early here:
https://www.mediafire.com/?mjhum130reilbdh
Please apply the patch to a clean Japanese Final Fantasy III ROM.

Note that if you find any typo's, PLEASE report them here in this thread. I tried to polish it up as much as I could but I also wanted to get this over with, so if there are any glaring typos or text-wrapping goofs, PLEASE report them in this thread and I'll have it fixed for the v1.1 release (hopefully there won't have to be a v1.1).

Unfortunately I was unable to implement a B-Button dash. Maybe that's something that could be included in a future release, but I had trouble getting it to work without disrupting the surrounding ASM code.

Oh and a quick question, will the text editing tool be able to edit the Japanese text in game? Also, if I edit the Japanese text, how will it turn out once an English patch is applied?
Yes it will, I'm gonna make my tool a bit more user-friendly before releasing it though, as right now it's tailored specifically to me. I'm not really sure how to answer your second question, you're only supposed to apply patches to the specific ROM file as indicated by the patch author, in this case a clean, unmodified, Japanese Final Fantasy III ROM.

EDIT: And the page is up! http://www.romhacking.net/translations/2701/
(I fudged up adding credits for Kea's MMC5 mapper patch but I've since submitted an edit to the credits list)
« Last Edit: August 17, 2016, 09:40:27 am by Chaos Rush »

linkncb16

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #114 on: August 17, 2016, 08:10:37 am »
Guess what guys, this project is finished! v1.0 has been submitted to RHDN, but while we're waiting for it to be approved, you can get it early here:
https://www.mediafire.com/?mjhum130reilbdh
Please apply the patch to a clean Japanese Final Fantasy III ROM.

Note that if you find any typo's, PLEASE report them here in this thread. I tried to polish it up as much as I could but I also wanted to get this over with, so if there are any glaring typos or text-wrapping goofs, PLEASE report them in this thread and I'll have it fixed for the v1.1 release (hopefully there won't have to be a v1.1).

Unfortunately I was unable to implement a B-Button dash. Maybe that's something that could be included in a future release, but I had trouble getting it to work without disrupting the surrounding ASM code.
 Yes it will, I'm gonna make my tool a bit more user-friendly before releasing it though, as right now it's tailored specifically to me. I'm not really sure how to answer your second question, you're only supposed to apply patches to the specific ROM file as indicated by the patch author, in this case a clean, unmodified, Japanese Final Fantasy III ROM.
Will do! I'll test it out and let you know what I find : )

August 17, 2016, 08:11:57 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Oh and I will be eagerly awaiting for your text editing tool as well!
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Asaki

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #115 on: August 17, 2016, 09:44:24 am »
Are you still thinking about adding compression to fit the translation into the original MMC3?

Chaos Rush

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #116 on: August 17, 2016, 09:55:54 am »
Are you still thinking about adding compression to fit the translation into the original MMC3?
Even though I expressed interest in doing so a month ago, today I am burned out, and I've sunk way too much time doing this. I wanted to get it done before the summer ends and I'm glad I did, but I think this is probably the last ROM-hacking related thing I'll do (for now), as I want to move on to other stuff.
 
I say this with regret, but I don't think I will look into compression. Soon, I will release my text editing tool, and will provide the script used for this translation with it (as well as the Japanese script). You guys do whatever you want with it. If someone else wants to compress it, I'd be all for it.

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #117 on: August 17, 2016, 02:05:16 pm »
I just quickly did an experiment with FF1's graphics, and it should be able to compress them and save 31% of space using the LZ77 algorithm. Huffman saves only 27%, which is still good but not as good. FF1's graphics use 84kb of the 256kb which makes the rom, after being compressed, they'd use only about 57kb, saving up 26kb for text, more than an entiere bank.

I still didn't manage to do a demo romhack which plays FF1 unaltered but with compressed graphics, but I'll work on it. FF3 uses basiscally FF1's engine with improvements, so it'll work out the same. I suspect FF3's compress ratio will be similar - after compressing the graphics you could also compress text, and then it'll almost surely fir in 512kb.

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #118 on: August 17, 2016, 06:25:22 pm »
Thank you Chaos Rush!
Final Fantasy III needed this love!

KingMike

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #119 on: August 17, 2016, 09:07:54 pm »
I just quickly did an experiment with FF1's graphics, and it should be able to compress them and save 31% of space using the LZ77 algorithm. Huffman saves only 27%, which is still good but not as good. FF1's graphics use 84kb of the 256kb which makes the rom, after being compressed, they'd use only about 57kb, saving up 26kb for text, more than an entiere bank.

I still didn't manage to do a demo romhack which plays FF1 unaltered but with compressed graphics, but I'll work on it. FF3 uses basiscally FF1's engine with improvements, so it'll work out the same. I suspect FF3's compress ratio will be similar - after compressing the graphics you could also compress text, and then it'll almost surely fir in 512kb.

Don't you need for a fairly large amount of RAM to use LZ encodings? (I know the traditional is a 4KB window but that's a ton of space an NES game is not likely to have). (FF1 used only a small part of the SRAM for actually saving a game but it still used most of the rest of that space for other stuff I think.)
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