News: 11 March 2016 - Forum Rules, Mobile Version
Current Moderators - DarkSol, KingMike, MathOnNapkins, Azkadellia

Author Topic: ROM Hacks: Skies of Arcadia: Legends Maeson Released  (Read 16409 times)

Imaynotbehere4long

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: ROM Hacks: Skies of Arcadia: Legends Maeson Released
« Reply #60 on: October 31, 2016, 01:09:41 pm »
@ dukejp: Okay, thanks. I was wondering about that.

Second impressions: I'm at Shrine Island, and it seems that Alpha Storm is pretty broke. It appears to do the same amount of damage as Cutlass Fury, but it only requires 2 SP, meaning it can be used every turn without consequence (unlike spells that require MP). Like, why wouldn't I want to keep using it (aside from the voice acting getting old)?

EDIT: The fight against the Sentinel is more annoying than challenging. Since the only things that can harm it are spells and Alpha Storm, it basically consisted of Vyse healing, Aika attacking, and both defending when the Sentinel used the tracking move (which was once every two turns). I think you should lower its HP by a few thousand.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 02:10:47 pm by Imaynotbehere4long »

Maeson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
    • View Profile
Re: ROM Hacks: Skies of Arcadia: Legends Maeson Released
« Reply #61 on: November 01, 2016, 06:54:41 am »
Here's the deal with Aika Abilities/Pyri line of spells:

In the original game, the similarity between Pyri spells and Aika's super moves was also there.

Alpha Storm is comparable to Pyres, the level 2 fire magic spell.  That makes it pretty strong at the beginning, giving her an advantage in fire attacks for a while thanks to the fact that she doesn't need MP to use it.

But as you progress through the game, Aika's fire super moves don't raise in power as much as Pyri spells, meaning that even if Alpha Storm it's strong for the beginning of the game, latter abilities become more of a "cheap" (MP and SP wise) alternative to fire magic, but also less powerful (and in case of the last Pyri spell, much less powerful). It's a perk that only she has.

About the Sentinel fight, as you may have guessed, in the original game this boss fight was some sort of lesson about defending at the right time.

I'll take a look at it's stats, as I remembered I modified it in 1.4. Maybe I did something wrong. Also, I hope you tried different magic types, as it's weak to Purple Magic (In every test playthrough I did, I always ended with Cristales, Purple Magic Level 2, with at least one character), or tried to Poison him, as it makes some damage over time to him if the condition sticks.

Lastly,  the actions the boss takes are random, I had fights where it used the laser twice in the entire fight, while in other, the Sentinel used it every single turn it could, which was quite challenging to manage healing.

Sometimes bosses can be absolute dicks, but that's the nature of the game.

EDIT: The resistances of the Sentinel have been corrected, now it should go down faster with magic. HP has been reduced slightly.

Both NTSC and PAL versions have been updated.

OH, and also:

Quote
It appears to do the same amount of damage as Cutlass Fury, but it only requires 2 SP

In this game physical damage abilties are multipliers to your normal damage, while magic is not (It goes like Will+Spell Power x2).

So even if Alpha Storm seems to do the same damage as Cutlass Fury, as you advance you'll see that Cutlass Fury keeps being useful (Because you upgrade weapons and get more Power) through almost the entire game, while Alpha Storm gets "outdated" much, much sooner.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 08:33:30 am by Maeson »
I'm off for some time. If for some weird, strange, and important reason, you need to talk to me, just send me a PM and probably I'll read it whenever I come back.

Imaynotbehere4long

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: ROM Hacks: Skies of Arcadia: Legends Maeson Released
« Reply #62 on: November 02, 2016, 09:52:48 pm »
as you progress through the game, Aika's fire super moves don't raise in power as much as Pyri spells, meaning that even if Alpha Storm it's strong for the beginning of the game, latter abilities become more of a "cheap" (MP and SP wise) alternative to fire magic, but also less powerful (and in case of the last Pyri spell, much less powerful). It's a perk that only she has.
Oh, I think I understand, now. However, I wasn't just referring to Alpha Storm vs magic, but also Alpha Storm vs using a normal attack. At the time of this writing, I've freed Fina and the Blue Rouges and I've just escaped Valua, but I can still count on Alpha Storm (and even Lambda Burst) not only to be a powerful attack with a chance of harming multiple enemies, but also to leave me with more SP than the previous turn if everyone else uses non-SP moves (which, given the SP requirements so far, means that's practically guaranteed unless I'm in a boss fight). Plus, those moves make short work of random encounters, sometimes even killing all enemies in one move.

I don't know; maybe I'll eat my words when I make it to the next area, but for now, my unbeatable strategy for random encounters is "use Lambda Burst, then kill any stragglers with melee attacks; if any survive turn one, repeat."

By the way, Vyse also has a special move that attacks all enemies, but it is lightning-based. I haven't tested it yet because I spent the Moonberries on Lambda Burst instead, but I'm curious: does that move's strength progression work the same way? If so, why does it cost ten SP instead of...less? Is it just that much more powerful, or is its progression closer to Cutlass Fury?

Also, I hope you tried different magic types, as it's weak to Purple Magic (In every test playthrough I did, I always ended with Cristales, Purple Magic Level 2, with at least one character), or tried to Poison him, as it makes some damage over time to him if the condition sticks.
Actually, I had barely switched to purple since the readme said to focus on building up one color before switching. I guess I misinterpreted what you were trying to say.

Also, sometimes, it can be quite difficult to tell which color is an enemy's weakness. I swear I used Cutlass Fury with purple equipped, and I dealt, like, two damage to the Sentinel. I guess I didn't anticipate a blanket immunity to melee attacks given the preexisting color scheme. I think I'm getting the hang of it now, though.


P.S. So far, aside from the Sentinel battle, I haven't encountered any combat issues, so I guess that means you did a good job. Congrats!

P.P.S. Could you do me a huge favor and make it so the "you're losing the boss fight" music only plays when someone is KO'd? It's incredibly annoying to have to hear that song each time one of my characters is low on health, and sometimes, I'll heal one only for another's health to drop low. Plus, I swear that, at one point, I encountered a glitch where it kept playing that song even after all my party members had a decent amount of health.

Maeson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
    • View Profile
Re: ROM Hacks: Skies of Arcadia: Legends Maeson Released
« Reply #63 on: November 03, 2016, 04:51:20 am »
Quote
About the super moves

The problem with super moves is basically that you can get a character's moves very early, making balancing them really annoying, because or you nerf them so they can't get abused early, making them less useful as you advance and making them end near useless, or you try to make them good with the risk of people abusing them.

It was one of the most problematic things for me, because each person plays his/her own way, and really, I can't do anything to stop it. Some people give the berries equally, others force-feed them to a single character to get everything early, others don't even use them...

For example, you got Lambda Burst a bit earlier than I did in my test playthroughs.

I thought about increasing the amount of SP she needs to use her fire based super moves before or maybe decrease the damage more, but because nobody ever gave me feedback on this aspect I thought I did that right.

I'll see what I do, probably increase 1 SP to those moves and slightly reduce it's attack. But even then, as you advance everything will fall on it's place. All this you're talking about is based on the early parts of the game. Her moves will start to feel less powerful eventually.

About Rain of Swords, the cost of 10 SP is for several reasons: It's a physical move, even if the name sounds like magic (And it's animation feels more magical than physical too) so the damage will grow as you go through the game, just like Cutlass Fury.

It has no element on it's own, but you can change it depending on the weapon you're holding, meaning that it's a physical hit-all super move with the element of your choosing. That's a VERY powerful thing right there because the damage can be increased with weapons, Increm and such. It needs to cost enough so it's usable, but not abusable at least not through most of the game, and if you want to use it, you probably couldn't do other things, like heal that turn. So it's some risk/reward type of thing.

Costing 10 seems quite a bit at the beginning, but you need to think that as you gain levels and advance, your characters get more SP each turn, so what you see expensive now, later you'll see more acceptable.

And also, in my mod costs 10, but in the original game it's cost was bigger (14). In fact most of the SP costs in my mod are lower so the player can use skills and magic more freely (and the enemies were powered up with that in mind). In the original game they were really, really high and made people just abuse a few things, which I really, really wanted to avoid.

Quote
Actually, I had barely switched to purple since the readme said to focus on building up one color before switching. I guess I misinterpreted what you were trying to say.

What I meant (And I'm sorry if it was badly explained), is that a good way to learn magic is to have all characters with the same element to build magic exp. quicker for a single element, so you get the next spell faster, and you can jump to another element.

Trying to learn all magic from one element is a really bad way to do so, because the amounts of magic exp. needed for each new spell increase a lot.

It's much better to jump from element to element learning spells gradually. But again, this is something that the player has control over, and each person do it differently.

Quote
About the weaknesses

If you wonder about what weaknesses and resistances each color has, you have a lot, (and I mean a lot, the time I spent writing things into that .txt is ridiculous, it very well could be an instruction manual) of info in the readme. There's a chart about how each element affects the others, in the magic list part.

Only very few enemies have different weaknesses, like the Sentinel, and that's because you get the purple element right before going to the Shrine, so I thought a weakness to the newer element could come in handy for the boss.
Quote
P.S. So far, aside from the Sentinel battle, I haven't encountered any combat issues, so I guess that means you did a good job. Congrats!

Thank you! Most people seem happy with it, so I'm happy too, seeing how this was made for me in the first place, but seeing others enjoy it's also great.

About the music... I tried several things, but the game always crashed. I'm tired of that song too (if only because it's really short loop).

Now that I think about it, what I haven't tried is to replace that theme's music files with the normal music files. Although I don't expect it to work... Thing is not many people know about gamecube hacking, and I'm faaaar from a great/knowledgeable hacker, so I'm out of ideas.

Problem is, I don't know how can I identify the files for that theme in particular, as I don't find a way to reproduce .samp files, and the fact that google shows me results about "San Andreas MultiPlayer" even if I rule out words like San and Andreas of the search doesn't help either...

So for now I'm not able to do anything about this...

Sorry for such a long post.

EDIT:

Okay, I tested a bit the fire spells vs aika's moves and I feel like I'll fine tune the moves by a bit. I'll make the patch as soon as I can.

Done. Again, both PAL and NTSC patches are here, and will be updated in the hacks page. I hope is the last thing I need to touch.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2qnblpascoftojw/SOAL%20Maeson%20mod%201-42.rar?dl=0
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 08:32:47 am by Maeson »
I'm off for some time. If for some weird, strange, and important reason, you need to talk to me, just send me a PM and probably I'll read it whenever I come back.

Imaynotbehere4long

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: ROM Hacks: Skies of Arcadia: Legends Maeson Released
« Reply #64 on: November 03, 2016, 12:49:19 pm »
Some people give the berries equally, others force-feed them to a single character to get everything early, others don't even use them...

For example, you got Lambda Burst a bit earlier than I did in my test playthroughs.
My strategy is to compare the descriptions and pick which one I think is better (until I reach the ones that require an extra berry). Example:

"Attack all enemies, cost 10 SP"
"Attack all enemies, cost 3 SP"

I think I'll take the one that costs 3 SP.


I will say: I think I got lucky by getting one or two Moonberries from random encounters, and I admit that can be tough to balance.

If you wonder about what weaknesses and resistances each color has, you have a lot, (and I mean a lot, the time I spent writing things into that .txt is ridiculous, it very well could be an instruction manual) of info in the readme. There's a chart about how each element affects the others, in the magic list part.
Actually, my issue wasn't so much figuring out which colors are weak to which colors (I knew about the chart already), but figuring out which enemies are which color. Example: Bleigock is grey, but it's element is green, not silver (and this is made even more confusing by the fact that it can use purple magic). Also, Maroccas are brown, but that doesn't correspond to any of the six elements, so which color are they? I'd assume yellow (due to the tan skin), but I looked it up, and they're apparently blue.

Things like that make me wish the game had a better way of conveying what color the enemies are instead of just the color of the border of their mugshot when selecting a target (honestly, that detail is so small that I didn't notice it until I looked up images just now to see if I missed anything). Actually, now that I think about it, is that what the Pirate's Isle kid says if you find him in hide and seek (that the enemy's element is its picture frame)? I skipped that part, but if that's true, that's certainly a well-guarded secret!  :laugh:  I should have an easier time now that I know what to look for.

Oh, and don't say "of course Maroccas are blue; they're modeled after a sea creature" because Grouders are purple.


On a different note, it's too bad you can't figure out what to do about the music.

Sorry for such a long post.
No need to apologize; in these situations, I always prefer more detail so I can understand the other person's decisions better. As always, thanks for the info.

Okay, I tested a bit the fire spells vs aika's moves and I feel like I'll fine tune the moves by a bit. I'll make the patch as soon as I can.

Done. Again, both PAL and NTSC patches are here, and will be updated in the hacks page.
I will say, you're very timely at getting these updates out; it almost makes me wish I kept a backup of my save so I could re-test the Sentinel fight with the new stats (after all, it may need a bit more work now that one of the only attacks that can harm it is weaker).

I hope is the last thing I need to touch.
If I'm as early into the game as you say I am...well, don't hold your breath.   ;)

Maeson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
    • View Profile
Re: ROM Hacks: Skies of Arcadia: Legends Maeson Released
« Reply #65 on: November 03, 2016, 02:37:49 pm »
Quote
My strategy is to compare the descriptions and pick which one I think is better (until I reach the ones that require an extra berry). Example:

"Attack all enemies, cost 10 SP"
"Attack all enemies, cost 3 SP"

I think I'll take the one that costs 3 SP.


I will say: I think I got lucky by getting one or two Moonberries from random encounters, and I admit that can be tough to balance.

Yeah, the moonberries as random drops can fuck up the entire attempt of balancing. In one of my tests I received so many berries I maxed all the characters and I still hade more than 20/30. It was insane.

Also, your example shows that some people also will use berries depending on which things sound better (Which is what most people do in their fist playthrough). Because the game gives this freedom in both moves and magic, each person will progress in a different way, and I really wouldn't like to remove such freedom.

In fact because of that, I had to make boss fights winnable without certain abilities that people like to spam a lot, in case that for some reason they didn't had them (one protects from magic, the other reduces damage, and the game is beatable without them as I did it myself, quite a bit more challenging, I liked it).

Besides, that's how the game was designed to be.

I personally learn moves slowly (depending on the SP the characters can generate) and priorize in magic, but that's just how I like to play.

Quote
Things like that make me wish the game had a better way of conveying what color the enemies are instead of just the color of the border of their mugshot when selecting a target (honestly, that detail is so small that I didn't notice it until I looked up images just now to see if I missed anything). Actually, now that I think about it, is that what the Pirate's Isle kid says if you find him in hide and seek (that the enemy's element is its picture frame)? I skipped that part, but if that's true, that's certainly a well-guarded secret!  :laugh:  I should have an easier time now that I know what to look for.

Precisely! Looking at the enemy portraits shows which elements they are, which is incredibly useful compared to many other RPGs (mostly older) where you don't have a way to tell before you attack them.

It's kinda obscure, but I personally like it. It rewards people paying attention.

About the music, yeah, a bit sad, but oh well...

Quote
I will say, you're very timely at getting these updates out; it almost makes me wish I kept a backup of my save so I could re-test the Sentinel fight with the new stats (after all, it may need a bit more work now that one of the only attacks that can harm it is weaker).

I try to be because I don't like to leave things like these "unfinished". If I notice I try to fix (like if you look a few pages back in this thread you'll see someone who told me that he was going to write a small article about this hack, and pointed me to a few things that needed to be fix, and they were fixed before he even finished writing  :D) so I can "relax" again.

I'm kind of OCD about these things, even more when others have access to it. I want to finish it, feel it's complete and working so I and others can enjoy it... And, well, leave it at that.

I love what I did, but I don't want to be continually worrying about it, if that make any sense. Or make people wait for that matter. Each time I visit this forum and I see the post being brought back from the dead I get a bit nervous, lol.

And about the Sentinel, Alpha Storm will hit for a bit less, but it will beg for mercy if you use purple magic  ;).

Quote
If I'm as early into the game as you say I am...well, don't hold your breath.   ;)

Well, the Sentinel was an oversight in version 1.4 where the changes I intended didn't save, and Aika's moves was a doubt I had since I started this whole thing, so everything else should be smooth from this point.

I hope :-\.

In any case I hope you keep enjoying.
I'm off for some time. If for some weird, strange, and important reason, you need to talk to me, just send me a PM and probably I'll read it whenever I come back.

Imaynotbehere4long

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: ROM Hacks: Skies of Arcadia: Legends Maeson Released
« Reply #66 on: November 09, 2016, 04:42:07 pm »
I have another favor to ask: can you increase the amount of Grapor Meat that drops from the Crescent Isle fish, or at least decrease the total number required to proceed to the next day? It's incredibly tedious to have to grind there, especially since they usually only appear 1-2 at a time (and have a decent chance of RUNNING AWAY).

Aside from that, the only thing I'd like to point out is the difference in difficulty between the Rokwyrm and the Rik'talish twins. Up until the player fights the Rokwyrm, Fina has only barely been in the party and is at such a low level that not-guarding practically ensures her death (the enemies would all gang-up on her). When I made it to the Rokwyrm, Fina had just over 1000 HP (Vyse and Aika weren't that much further ahead, though), but the Rockwyrm's Volcanic Blast deals 800 damage, meaning that if Fina was attacked at all during the fight, one Volcanic Blast would kill her. On the other hand, the Rik'talish twins mainly just cause status effects, and even if the player hasn't learned Lunar Cleansing by this point, it's much easier to deal with than mass 60-80% damage with a chance of using it again before you can heal. Maybe it's just because I got into so many battles while trying to find that stupid Nazca Lines reference (but didn't you say bosses scale?), but I think the Rokwyrm should be made a bit easier.

P.S. Even with Epsilon Mirror, Lambda Burst is still preferable to Pyres because it deals ~100 more damage. I guess I haven't reached "that point" yet.

P.P.S. I'm probably not the first to notice this, but I think I found an actual oversight with the game:
Spoiler:


EDIT: What I wrote about the Rokwyrm goes double for Sinistra and Destra. I wouldn't mind them having attacks that take most of my party's HP in one turn if the game was consistent with the turn order, but sometimes, I'll just get destroyed before I have a chance to heal or do anything. I know you wanted the fights to be more challenging without requiring luck, but it certainly feels like they require luck sometimes...

EDIT 2: Also, unlike Volcanic Blast, Death Waltz will kill Fina even at full health (unless she's guarding), and as far as I can tell, there's no way to predict when they'll use Death Waltz.

EDIT 3: Okay, with as powerful as Death Waltz is, they shouldn't be able to use that in combination with multi-attack magic on the same turn (because that kills Vyse and Aika at full HP), but they totally can. Even if you don't do anything with the Rokwyrm, I'm pretty sure these guys should be nerfed.

EDIT 4: THEY LITERALLY USED DEATH WALTZ TWICE ON THE SAME TURN!! The only reason I managed not to die was because Aika was at full HP and defending, but that still left me with only 338 HP and everyone else dead. I couldn't even KO Sinistra, whom I had been focusing all of my strongest purple attacks on! I got close, though, but I think I'll wait until the next revision to try again.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 08:50:59 pm by Imaynotbehere4long »

Maeson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
    • View Profile
Re: ROM Hacks: Skies of Arcadia: Legends Maeson Released
« Reply #67 on: November 10, 2016, 02:05:05 pm »
About the grapor meat: You had to be unlucky, because when I play I tend to find groups of 3-5 quite often. In fact you can find groups of up to six grapors in a single fight. A single spell should be able to finish them all in one turn too.

I could improve the number of grapors, but I really didn't see a problem with it, and nobody seems to have an issue with it either.

About the Rockwyrm:

...I have one question: Do you use equipment that protects from elements?

You can not only buy armors that protect from fire attacks back in Maramba, but you can also obtain armor that resists fire in the pyramids where you fight the Rockwyrm (from those lizard looking things), Fire Mantles, which all three characters can equip and give nice defense and magic defense.

Even more than that, you can also get accessories that protect from his stone attack and you can equip both the armors and the accessories at the same time. I gave all the tools I could to make the fight easier without making it a joke.

About the oversight: I never noticed it, lol. I don't know if I can edit story/dialogue text, it's encrypted, unlike descriptions and such. I'll take a look, but I don't think it's all that important if I can't do anything.

About Sinistra and Destra:

The same I said about Rockwyrm I say here. Do you use equipment to protect you from elements? I can agree that this fight is harder than things before (I intended it to be), but nobody I asked told me it was such a problem. Accessories with elemental resistances stack with armors, and you can buy "Thermo Rings" that reduce damage from both Red and Purple attacks.

The point of the fight is to focus on one of the bosses (people I asked told me that they usually choose to take the red guy first because Purple magic does higher damage) so they can't use Death Waltz.

I could lower the damage they do, of course... But on the other hand, when you're the first person that tells me this, It could be something else.

Before doing anything I want to ask: What levels do you have? What is your equipment? What do you try to do?

I remember in my test playthroughs to be around 24/26 if I recall correctly...

Oh, and by the way: The bosses that grow stronger depending on your level are the optional ones. The story-related boss fights are fixed.

EDIT: Hey, I just remembered, one of the people I talked about commented me that he went to this fight under-leveled (because he had Vyse's goggles equipped the entire game and those reduce encounters) and for this battle he tried to resist Destra's and Sinistra's attacks by defending and healing until the Spirit bar was full and then use Prophecy (A super-attack that needs all your SP).

EDIT2: DAMN, another thing I forgot:

Sinistra and Destra do warn you about Death Waltz! They do so through the warning move "Engage" the turn before they use it.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 03:25:32 pm by Maeson »
I'm off for some time. If for some weird, strange, and important reason, you need to talk to me, just send me a PM and probably I'll read it whenever I come back.

Imaynotbehere4long

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: ROM Hacks: Skies of Arcadia: Legends Maeson Released
« Reply #68 on: November 11, 2016, 07:15:41 pm »
For the Rockwyrm, Aika had protection against stone, and I'm pretty sure someone had the flame mantle equipped (it was probably Fina because I was trying to give her more defense to compensate for her low level and HP, but it was still really easy for her to get killed if she didn't defend practically every turn, which is my main complaint about that part).


As for Sinistra and Destra:

Unlike the Pyri-amid (Temple of Pyrynn), there's nothing about Daccat's Island that implies a red/purple boss (in fact, the random encounters are blue and green!), so you can't really play the "you weren't strategizing" card here. I admit I haven't purchased armor since Sailor's Island, but that's because there's usually better armor in the dungeons, so I never really had to. In fact, the Maiden's Armor inside Daccat's Island gives Fina her strongest magic defense at this time, but Tundra Blast still takes ~1000 HP from her (~950-980 for everyone else, and Explode isn't much weaker)! In other words, unless I have Fina defend each turn, I risk her getting killed from one Tundra Blast combined with one Explode, even at full HP (and it isn't uncommon for that to happen). What's worse: even if she is defending, two Death Waltzs in one turn (which happened once each time I played today) will kill her anyway!

And yeah, I'm at level 24. Current max HP:

Vyse: 2566
Aika: 2278
Fina: 1952
Gilder: 3000

And yes, my strategy is to focus all my attacks on one (but I don't have Prophecy yet, so my strongest attack is a purple Cutlass Fury) and defend/heal when I'm low on HP.

Now, you may be thinking "just use Sacrum; that heals everyone by 1500 points." However, if they use Explode and Tundra Blast on the same turn (which, as I wrote before, isn't uncommon), that takes away a combined total of ~1900 points when unguarded, so I'd be stuck in a loop until either someone dies or I get lucky and they just use normal attacks, letting me heal properly.

Another thing they like to do is use Tundra Blast/Explode in combination with Engage, and on the next turn, use Tundra Blast/Explode in combination with Death Waltz (or even Engage and Death Waltz!). If that happens, no matter what I do, someone dies (since I can't have one character heal from the previous attack and guard from the next one) and the others end up with low health if they don't also die. Plus, although I have a Riselm box and Fina knows Riselm (Vyse and Aika know Risan), I'm never guaranteed a move before the boss, so the game could just decide to kill me before I have a chance to heal or revive anyone. Even though I now know when the bosses will use Death Waltz, I can't really plan around it because their normal magic attacks are just so powerful; no matter what I do, no matter how defensive or offensive my strategy is, they employ one of the above strategies and I get murdered...

But on the other hand, when you're the first person that tells me this, It could be something else.
As a veteran of the SMBX community, I can assure you that most people don't bring up their issues directly to the creators, choosing instead either to keep it to themselves or complain about it elsewhere (like a let's play thread of the episode on a different forum). Plus, this patch is only a few months old; I doubt many other people have played it blind yet. Now it's my turn to ask you:

Who did you get to playtest your patch? Did anyone play it blind, or did they all have prior experience with Skies of Arcadia and have some idea of what to expect? The readme says that this was also meant for people who haven't played the game before, but your response implies that I was supposed to know to defend specifically against red and purple attacks ahead of time.


P.S. I also haven't used any stat-boosting items (partly because the readme said that certain bosses scale, and partly because, again, I never really needed to), though I doubt that would make much difference.

P.P.S. Here's a play-by-play of my last attempt (each sentence is a turn, but moves didn't necessarily happen in the order of the sentence):

Everyone uses Crystales against Sinisra; Sinistra uses Engage and Destra uses Tundra Blast.
Aika uses Sacrum and everyone else guards; Sinistra uses Death Waltz and Destra uses Tundra Blast, killing Aika.
Since Aika is the only one who knows Sacrum, Vyse uses Sacres on himself, Fina uses Riselm on Aika, and Gilder uses a Sacres crystal (since he doesn't even know Sacres at this point) on Fina; Sinistra attacks Gilder, Destra uses Tundra Blast.
Aika uses Sacrum and everyone else guards; Sinistra uses Explode and Destra attacks Gilder but Gilder counters.
Since Vyse is almost at full HP, I take a chance and use Cutlass Fury while Aika uses Sacrum again; Sinistra attacks Aika, but Aika counters, and Destra uses Tundra Blast.
Aika uses Sacrum, Gilder uses a Sacres crystal on Aika, Vyse and Fina guard; Destra uses Tundra Blast, Sinistra attacks Aika.
Aika uses Epsilon Mirror, everyone else uses Crystales against Sinistra; Sinistra attacks Vyse, but Vyse counters, and Destra uses Tundra Blast.
Vyse and Fina defend, Aika uses Sacrum, Gilder uses Crystales against Sinistra (not enough SP for Gunslinger, obv.); Destra attacks Aika, Aika counters, Sinistra attacks Gilder. I'd also like to interject and say that I've been getting lucky with this attempt.
Vyse uses Crystales, Gilder uses Gunslinger, Aika and Fina defend; Sinistra uses Explode, Destra attacks Vyse.
Aika uses Sacrum, everyone else defends; Sinistra uses Engage, Destra uses Tundra Blast.
Trying to keep Aika from dying, Gilder uses a Sacres crystal on Aika, everyone else defends; Destra uses Tundra Blast and Sinistra uses Death Waltz, killing Fina and Gilder.
Aika uses Sacrum, Destra uses Tundra Blast, Sinistra attacks Vyse, Vyse uses the Riselm box on Fina (the box breaks. Also, this sentence is in order so you know that Fina is at full HP this turn).
Vyse guards, Aika uses Sacrum, Fina uses Riselm on Gilder; Sinistra uses Engage, Destra attack Aika, Aika counters.
Everyone guards; Sinistra uses Death Waltz, Destra uses Tundra Blast.
Vyse and Fina guard, Aika uses Sacrum, Gilder uses Gunslinger on Sinistra; both use Engage.
Knowing Fina will die anyway, I have her use Crystales against Sinistra while everyone else guards, but Destra uses Death Waltz first, killing her in one move (2000 damage); Sinistra uses Death Waltz, killing Aika.
Vyse uses Risan on Fina, Gilder uses a Sacres crystal on himself; Destra uses Tundra Blast, killing Vyse and Fina, Sinistra uses Explode.
Gilder, at 166 HP, uses a Risan crystal on Aika, but it misses; Sinistra and Destra use Engage.
Before Gilder can do anything, Death Waltz is used and Gilder dies.

Tell me, aside from not knowing what resistances I'd need ahead of time, what did I do wrong? Also, don't write that off as me being unlucky because that was the best I've ever done against them (I got Sinistra to be slack-jawed, which only happened one other time).

Maeson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
    • View Profile
Re: ROM Hacks: Skies of Arcadia: Legends Maeson Released
« Reply #69 on: November 12, 2016, 05:27:05 am »
Quote
For the Rockwyrm, Aika had protection against stone, and I'm pretty sure someone had the flame mantle equipped (it was probably Fina because I was trying to give her more defense to compensate for her low level and HP, but it was still really easy for her to get killed if she didn't defend practically every turn, which is my main complaint about that part).

Okay, I'll lower the damage a bit. I'll also increase a bit the HP Fina gets by leveling up.

Quote
About Sinistra and Destra

Let's do something, At the end of this post I'm going to link a patch where the attacks of these guys are nerfed a certain amount. I want you to try it and say me how it goes, and what equipment do you have.

Quote
As a veteran of the SMBX community, I can assure you that most people don't bring up their issues directly to the creators, choosing instead either to keep it to themselves or complain about it elsewhere (like a let's play thread of the episode on a different forum). Plus, this patch is only a few months old; I doubt many other people have played it blind yet.

That's why I said people I asked. I know that you usually can't count on people on the internet for these types of things (Although in this thread people has pointed me to things to fix for which I am very glad), and that's why when I tell you that, it's me talking to people I know personally and I asked them to try it, so I could talk with them. I also played it several times myself.

That's why I'm surprised that it is giving you so much trouble because yes, two of them had some difficulties, but not to this level.

By the way, SMBX stands for Super Mario Bros X? I never tried it, I need to take a look.

Quote
Now it's my turn to ask you:

Who did you get to playtest your patch? Did anyone play it blind, or did they all have prior experience with Skies of Arcadia and have some idea of what to expect?

Just one of the persons I asked personally played it blindly. I remember he actually got stuck at the poisonous boss in lower Valua, and some of the optional fights (Although to be honest, the optional bosses are dicks even in the original game and that's the way they were intended), and he died twice on this fight, but he didn't made a big deal about this boss fight, so I thought it would be fine.

The other players knew about the game, and neither pointed me to this being such a problem as you're experiencing.

Quote
The readme says that this was also meant for people who haven't played the game before, but your response implies that I was supposed to know to defend specifically against red and purple attacks ahead of time.

I know what you're trying to say, and you have a point there, but you also have to think that in the original game things go the same way. There's no warning that the bosses are going to be like this, unlike other places, and there's not much equipment in the original game that could protect you from Red and Purple attacks at that point.

In my mod you can get things like the Eye of truth from Rixis (with 20% chances of dropping instead of 10%), if I'm not mistaken, which protects you from Red attacks, for example.

But because of this, I'm also modifying the Caravan Armor (which you can buy in Nasrad) so it gives both Red and Purple protection with the catch that it offers less defense than other armors because it protects from two different elements.

It shouldn't be needed as I'm lowering the damage done by the bosses attacks, but I wanted to give it as an option.

So here are the changes in this patch. It's not final, I need you to try it out and tell me your experience first before I set things in stone:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sizu74sftda5bmi/Skies%20of%20Arcadia%20Legends%20Maeson%201%2C43%20Universal.rar?dl=0

Fina gets more HP by leveling up.
Rockwyrm's Volcanic Blast has been weakened a bit.
Explode, Tundra Blast and Death Waltz had their power reduced too.
The Caravan Armor offers both Purple and Red protection, and it can be purchased in Nasrad.

Because this is just to try, I didn't make a PAL version of the patch (Which takes more time to make than the US version).

Please, patch your game and tell me how it goes.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2016, 05:32:31 am by Maeson »
I'm off for some time. If for some weird, strange, and important reason, you need to talk to me, just send me a PM and probably I'll read it whenever I come back.

Imaynotbehere4long

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: ROM Hacks: Skies of Arcadia: Legends Maeson Released
« Reply #70 on: November 12, 2016, 03:42:41 pm »
what equipment do you have.
My armor is De Loco Mail for Vyse, Gilder's Mail for Gilder, and Maiden's Armor for Aika and Fina.

Just to be safe, here's a dump of my memory card (though it's before I gave Fina the other Maiden's Armor to try to defend against 1.42 Sinistra and Destra):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mzh3w3ttg2pb9qo/0251b_2016_11Nov_12_13-38-52.raw?dl=0

That way, you can see exactly how underpowered I am!  :) (among other things)

As a side note, I would have thought that level 24 was slightly higher than the average since there were two times I had to backtrack through a dungeon to restock on items (first was the Valuan executioner right after Bleigok; second was the Rokwyrm), and in doing that, I'd gain a level or two.

By the way, don't forget that since Aika and Fina are separated from Vyse (who has all the money) at this point in the game, it's not really feasible for the player to compare the stats of shop armor to what they have equipped, so changing the stats of shop armor may not help much in this regard.


and he died twice on this fight

Holy crap; I've died at least eight times on that fight!


I know what you're trying to say, and you have a point there, but you also have to think that in the original game things go the same way. There's no warning that the bosses are going to be like this, unlike other places, and there's not much equipment in the original game that could protect you from Red and Purple attacks at that point.
I understand that as well, but didn't you say that the original game was a bit too easy, and that magic was weaker than normal attacks? Their normal attacks take around 400 damage, so if Tundra Blast and Explode took even less than that, I could see myself also thinking that the game was a bit too easy.


So here are the changes in this patch. It's not final, I need you to try it out and tell me your experience first before I set things in stone:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sizu74sftda5bmi/Skies%20of%20Arcadia%20Legends%20Maeson%201%2C43%20Universal.rar?dl=0

Fina gets more HP by leveling up.
Rockwyrm's Volcanic Blast has been weakened a bit.
Explode, Tundra Blast and Death Waltz had their power reduced too.
The Caravan Armor offers both Purple and Red protection, and it can be purchased in Nasrad.

Because this is just to try, I didn't make a PAL version of the patch (Which takes more time to make than the US version).

Please, patch your game and tell me how it goes.
Dang, I should've learned from the whole Sentinel debacle and kept a backup of my save at the Temple of Pyrynn.

As for Sinistra and Destra, I say that's perfect; I could actually use Fina without risking her getting murdered each turn. The only thing I'm not entirely sure about is that increasing the HP Fina gets from leveling up might compound and make the boss easier than intended (I can't exactly test the new level-up system without starting a new game).

In a final bit of irony, when I won, Gilder said "I wish they were all that easy!"

Maeson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
    • View Profile
Re: ROM Hacks: Skies of Arcadia: Legends Maeson Released
« Reply #71 on: November 12, 2016, 04:57:18 pm »
For parts:
Quote
My armor is De Loco Mail for Vyse, Gilder's Mail for Gilder, and Maiden's Armor for Aika and Fina.

De Loco Mail is a little outdated. If you visited the weapon shop in Nasrad (You can back track there if you were in Daccat's Island if I remember right) you could have bought something better, or even better yet, find the Daccat Armor in Daccat's Island, which offers pretty decent defense and magic defense. I don't remember which chest had it, but they are rather hidden compared to other dungeons.

Gilder's Mail is the best piece of equipment that you could have for him at that point.

Maiden Armors are fine too.


Quote
I understand that as well, but didn't you say that the original game was a bit too easy, and that magic was weaker than normal attacks? Their normal attacks take around 400 damage, so if Tundra Blast and Explode took even less than that, I could see myself also thinking that the game was a bit too easy.

Thing is, the abilities of these guys (And actually, most of the enemy special moves, which I didn't know until I started this thing) are physical. Magic itself is for the most part the spells you or monsters can learn by getting magic exp.

And yes, and the original game gets a bit too easy, to the point of you being able to steamroll through pretty much the entire game with little effort, besides the optional bosses (I guess the developers knew when they ported the game to the gamecube and wanted to give some challenge).

Quote
Dang, I should've learned from the whole Sentinel debacle and kept a backup of my save at the Temple of Pyrynn.

As for Sinistra and Destra, I say that's perfect; I could actually use Fina without risking her getting murdered each turn. The only thing I'm not entirely sure about is that increasing the HP Fina gets from leveling up might compound and make the boss easier than intended (I can't exactly test the new level-up system without starting a new game).

Then, you consider this change was good enough? If that's so i'm glad to hear that. I'll get to make the patches and update the hack's page tomorrow, it's getting late here.

Don't worry too much about Fina's HP increase. It should be around 10 points of HP per level more, if that. And please, don't worry about having a problem with that change in your save file.

Changes in stats and stat growths are compatible (Unlike changes in experience and magic experience tables). I know because the first thing I tried while hacking the game was to change how stats growth, and I used one of my old original game savefiles to try, and during the process of making this I kept fine tuning the stats during the same playthrough, and all is needed is to level up once to normalize any change.

As far as stats go, the game knows when and when not to increase them and how much. If it helps, I tried it on one of my save files from the last test playthrough (Fina was lvl 53) and I leveled her up just to make sure. Everything went fine.

If I changed something that needed to start from the beginning I would have told you, because that's something big... And annoying.

Quote
In a final bit of irony, when I won, Gilder said "I wish they were all that easy!"

Damn, quite the ending for this issue.
I'm off for some time. If for some weird, strange, and important reason, you need to talk to me, just send me a PM and probably I'll read it whenever I come back.

Imaynotbehere4long

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: ROM Hacks: Skies of Arcadia: Legends Maeson Released
« Reply #72 on: November 13, 2016, 11:41:14 pm »
Spoiler:
Whoa, the Delphinus has a talking engine! The Valuans really went all out with this ship, didn't they?


On topic: Gunslinger's SP cost should be lowered a bit. My reasoning is because it's attack power is comparable to Rain of Swords, as is its SP cost, but unlike Rain of Swords, which is guaranteed to hit all enemies, Gunslinger's range is comparable to Alpha Storm, making it less appealing. Admittedly, this is a minor issue, but as it is, Gunslinger just seems like an inferior version of Rain of Swords.

(although, now that I think about it, I don't remember if I switched to the same color when comparing the damages)

Maeson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
    • View Profile
Re: ROM Hacks: Skies of Arcadia: Legends Maeson Released
« Reply #73 on: November 14, 2016, 01:46:11 am »
Spoiler:
Best technology is best. Wait until you see how much the Delphinus is pimped through the game.

Quote
About Gunslinger.

Yeah, that's why Rain of Swords has a multiplier of 2.4, while Gunslinger has a multiplier of 2.6.

If you want, make the comparison of damage and tell me what you think. I could lower the SP needed a point or two, but I thought the 20% more damage was enough.

Or maybe give it another 10% more damage.

Although we have to have in mind his last ability, so probably the cut on SP would be the most fair...
I'm off for some time. If for some weird, strange, and important reason, you need to talk to me, just send me a PM and probably I'll read it whenever I come back.

Imaynotbehere4long

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: ROM Hacks: Skies of Arcadia: Legends Maeson Released
« Reply #74 on: November 14, 2016, 04:53:19 pm »
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I believe that I just forgot to switch to the same color when comparing the two attacks, as I remember them both dealing ~1200 damage (except when fighting Sinistra, where I made sure Gilder had purple equipped and it dealt ~1500 damage). My bad.  :-[

Maeson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
    • View Profile
Re: ROM Hacks: Skies of Arcadia: Legends Maeson Released
« Reply #75 on: November 14, 2016, 05:54:32 pm »
Don't worry!

Comapring Gunslinger and Rain of Swors is something I did too when i was creating this, so I get from where you were coming from with that question.
I'm off for some time. If for some weird, strange, and important reason, you need to talk to me, just send me a PM and probably I'll read it whenever I come back.

Imaynotbehere4long

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: ROM Hacks: Skies of Arcadia: Legends Maeson Released
« Reply #76 on: November 16, 2016, 07:32:08 pm »
I'm curious: is there a way you can change the icon order during ship battles? I ask because, when fighting the Auriga, there's a round with two Moon Stone Cannon icons, but even if I have enough SP to use the Moon Stone Cannon twice, the game won't let me, so I was hoping you could move the second Moon Stone Cannon icon to the following round. I wouldn't think this was that big a deal if it weren't for the fact that my other cannons normally only deal 500 damage to the ship (or zero for the Prototype Cannons; yeah, sometimes they deal full damage, but I couldn't figure out what determines that).

Also, Royal Blade seems to be ~200 points weaker than Cutlass Fury, despite having the same range and SP cost (I made sure to compare the attacks with the same color this time). Maybe this is just because Enrique joins the party a few levels behind, but I think the SP cost of Royal Blade should be lowered by a point.

Maeson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
    • View Profile
Re: ROM Hacks: Skies of Arcadia: Legends Maeson Released
« Reply #77 on: November 17, 2016, 03:30:49 am »
About Ship Battles:

Saddly, I am unable to change how ship battle rounds work. In fact seems that other Skies of Arcadia hackers like Taikokuya (much, much more knowledgeable about this game than me and hacking in general) haven't found how to change them either...

...But, you're not entirelly "underpowered". As the game implies, The Auriga has a lot of physical defense.

This will go on a spoiler if you don't want anything more than that hint:

Spoiler:
Using magic cannonballs will hurt him badly, as his ship has very low magic defense and it's weak to Blue element. I wouldn't make him so resistant without a weakness of sorts, and he being the archetypical "tank" of the bad guys, I thought it was a good way to do it.

And as I said in the readme, enchanted cannon balls are really useful, as pretty much everything you fight on a ship has elemental weaknesses (although resistances too, just like monsters).

About Captain Airsickness:

Can you tell me how much Attack (Power+weapon power) do Vyse and Enrique have?

Looking at the code, they have the very same power:

Code: [Select]
43 75 74 6C 61 73 73 20 46 75 72 79 00 00 00 00 00 06 00 C8 02 00 03 00 01 07 00 00 00 23 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
52 6F 79 61 6C 20 42 6C 61 64 65 00 00 00 00 00 00 06 00 F0 02 00 25 04 01 07 00 00 00 23 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
                                                                                       ------

Those "23" are the multiplier (x3.5) so the only thing making that difference has to be the final Power the characters have, probably caused by those levels Enrique lacks.

That said, I could increase Enrique's Royal Blade to x3.6 or reduce it's SP cost, whichever is seen the best solution, but as far as super moves go, they're virtually the same.
I'm off for some time. If for some weird, strange, and important reason, you need to talk to me, just send me a PM and probably I'll read it whenever I come back.

Imaynotbehere4long

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: ROM Hacks: Skies of Arcadia: Legends Maeson Released
« Reply #78 on: November 17, 2016, 12:43:42 pm »
...But, you're not entirelly "underpowered". As the game implies, The Auriga has a lot of physical defense.
Oh, wow. I somehow managed to forget that I could use attack spells even though Quick is the only way to avoid his ramming attack and other ships used magic against me.  :-[

Can you tell me how much Attack (Power+weapon power) do Vyse and Enrique have?
290 for Vyse, 246 for Enrique. Also, Dream Cutlass is only 10 points stronger than the Rapier, and Enrique needs 1000 EXP less than Vyse to reach the next level. I'm currently at Yafutoma.


EDIT: Why are Riselem Crystals less expensive than Sacrilege Sacrulen Crystals? Shouldn't it be the other way around since Riselem Crystals will also revive the ally?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 12:53:18 pm by Imaynotbehere4long »

Maeson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
    • View Profile
Re: ROM Hacks: Skies of Arcadia: Legends Maeson Released
« Reply #79 on: November 17, 2016, 05:44:47 pm »
Quote
290 for Vyse, 246 for Enrique. Also, Dream Cutlass is only 10 points stronger than the Rapier, and Enrique needs 1000 EXP less than Vyse to reach the next level. I'm currently at Yafutoma.

... Hmm. It's the difference in Power then. Give him a few levels to see how it increases, and tell me how it goes.

I could increase Enrique's growth a bit to make it closer if it doesn't grow that much.

Quote
EDIT: Why are Riselem Crystals less expensive than Sacrilege Sacrulen Crystals? Shouldn't it be the other way around since Riselem Crystals will also revive the ally?

Well, my reasoning is this: You can only use Riselem crystals when someone is unconscious, but you can abuse Sacrulen crystals any time as long as the character is alive. Making them more expensive I try to make them less easy to abuse, at least for some time until you have gold to spare.

Maybe it's a flawed reason, but that was my honest thought. I also thought of making them only heal 5000 (and lowering the price if it was like that), but I never ended up making the change.
I'm off for some time. If for some weird, strange, and important reason, you need to talk to me, just send me a PM and probably I'll read it whenever I come back.