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Author Topic: ROM Hacks: New Secret of Evermore balance patch  (Read 22864 times)

PresidentLeever

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Re: ROM Hacks: New Secret of Evermore balance patch
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2013, 12:12:53 pm »
Hard Mode! (some big bugs here)
I think I'm gonna have to retract that bit about making alchemy more expensive to use, at least not all of them. The increased monster stats mostly balances things out (though resistances for some enemies like bone buzzards could definitely be increased). I wouldn't increase enemy evade either, because the added to hit% works in the same way with enemies cancelling out even your lvl 3 charged attacks with their normal attacks.

Prehistoria - I decided to focus on melee this time so after beating Salabog I grinded the weapons to lvl 3 using the first jungle area. I also tried to not buy ingredients, just use what I found, but had to drop that idea by the time I got to the volcano as I got too low on Water.
This period isn't much slower than before up until the volcano, where the Vipers really felt like a chore to fight in melee. The Tar Skulls in the bugmuck didn't seem worth the time either. Also the raptor trap in the cave was much harder here, a pretty big difficulty spike.

Four Dinos - Pretty tough now, I pretty much lucked out and the dog died.
Thraxx - The biggest challenge here, and it made me wish I hadn't focused on melee for a bit.
Salabog - This one isn't much harder, it just takes way longer to kill. It doesn't need the added HP, but maybe the Wisps could be stronger.
Magmar - Not that much harder with the weapons at lvl 3, but still a good fight.

Got a question here btw, if you keep leveling a weapon that's at 3:0, do future uncollected weapons still gain points from it?

Antiqua - Grinding for money just didn't feel worth the time, so I skipped it, and it wasn't since I got an Egg from buying pots in the market after like 10 minutes. :) In this period I used the entrance to Colossia to grind the axe and sword to lvl 3, and had to grind the dog for a bit after that since it hadn't leveled at all from me stealing its kills.
Halls of Colossia is where the game got pretty tedious, since the dog didn't have enough evade and kept dying against Dancing Fools. I started using alchemy much more in the Pyramid and afterwards and it's just as effective against fliers as before, pretty much.

Question #2: Is the market timer supposed to reset if you get out and go back to Crustacia (to buy bronze gear), then return?

Minitaur - To be honest this is how tough I think it should be on Normal mode.
Megataur - This guy managed to kill me with a physical+alchemy combo I wasn't prepared for. Pretty good fight even though it's very similar to Magmar.
Rimsala - The tough part is keeping the dog alive so it gains exp, but it's nearly the same otherwise.
Aegis - Again this is how tough it should be on Normal I think.
Aquagoth - Not noticeable harder. I did notice the sword would only hit if a lvl 3 attack is used, and the dog still won't attack the main body.

Gothica - I got low on Gold here and without a quick non alchemy-way to grind for it until I got to the chessboard (though could've somewhat helped that by not buying a Gold Plated Vest or Defender). I'd say the Firepower and One Up formulas aren't really worth getting since Heal and Lance get so strong.
One odd thing I noticed is that the fliers under the chessboard are pretty weak, doing only 0-1 damage.

Foot Knight - I'd say he could be this tough on Normal. Not that hard either way though.
Evil Twin - Pretty good. He could also be this tough on Normal, perhaps.
Timberdrake - This was pretty tough. I was low on some key ingredients from before and was at 300 max HP while his fireball did like 305 damage when singeling the boy out. I discovered a pretty good way to dodge fireballs though, using Essence right before they hit. Some other items seemed to work as well, but not as reliably.
Verminator - I leveled my weapons to 3 before this one. Pretty good, but Lance takes care of him pretty quickly.
Sterling - Only somewhat tougher than before.
Mungola - Toughest boss so far and I died a couple of times trying to use the sword as main attack, then went mostly with Lance/Lightning Storm instead. The lag makes it much harder to dodge/block his fireball and it's pretty easy to take two hits in a row here (the evade cap really comes into play here). It gets kinda tough to keep track of all the status effects; am I missing some text info in the interface or was there never any?

I went back and reloaded a state before the Mungola fight to try other tactics and encountered a major bug here where the I couldn't input any actions. If you let the purple puppet live, it sometimes moves down from the stage and stays there, only healing Mungola occasionally which makes the battle much easier. However after a while it turned into a different puppet (your design?) and when it up to the stage the bug happened.

Edit: Tried the fight again and it apparently happens without freezing if you just keep killing the puppets - they both get black and white clothes and orange faces, but after a few seconds both them and Mungola die. Then the game continues normally.

Another bug when looking for the Gauge: Right after bouncing up over the volcano and landing, when I went down to go back to the windwalker, I noticed the dark raptors acted as if I wasn't there. This was fixed after I went into the cave/item shop in the same area though.

Coleoptora - Pretty much the same, would've been easy if I focused on alchemy attacks.

Omnitopia - More of a struggle to trek through, and the Rimsalas are pretty tedious to fight. It's more of an issue with the scrolling and dog AI combined with the tight spaces though.
The final fight is very tough and pretty overwhelming. On my first attempt there were lots of spiders and the game didn't seem to wait until one enemy type was gone until the next one appeared, which didn't happen the second time.

Unfortunately there's a major bug: Just when Metal Magmar appears and stands up in the middle of the room, the background goes white and the game assumes you've won the entire fight. I tried two more times to see what caused it but I'm not sure. Sometimes Nazi Carlton appears along with Magmar and sometimes Magmar doesn't disappear and keeps attacking you while the ending cutscene starts.
FYI I'm using the same rom as before and it gets a checksum fail on startup but there hasn't been any other big problems up until this playthrough.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 12:45:42 pm by PresidentLeever »
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Ninakoru

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Re: ROM Hacks: New Secret of Evermore balance patch
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2013, 12:09:18 pm »
First of all, many thanks again for your feedback. On the bugs, is hard to believe it has something to do with the hard mode patch, if you look at the scripts to make the hard mode, they are minimal and shouldn't impact the game. I have to test them myself though. Maybe an emulation issue?

The Tar Skulls in the bugmuck didn't seem worth the time either
They give the most exp and money compared to the previously met enemies, they are good targets for magic use as they don't have high magic def and are sometimes troublesome if you want to kill them.

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Got a question here btw, if you keep leveling a weapon that's at 3:0, do future uncollected weapons still gain points from it?
Nope, once you use a lvl 3 weapon, all weapon experience stops.

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I started using alchemy much more in the Pyramid and afterwards and it's just as effective against fliers as before, pretty much.
Yeah, flyers are a bit tedious without magic , but that is so since the original game (I think it was intended).

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Question #2: Is the market timer supposed to reset if you get out and go back to Crustacia (to buy bronze gear), then return?
Didn't test it, so no idea.

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I'd say the Firepower and One Up formulas aren't really worth getting since Heal and Lance get so strong.

This is because how magic get stronger with level-up. Fire power has double base damage than lance, but magic level matters a lot. However if you have the poney to support firepower, it can become devatating, only supassed by Nitro. One-up is a bit trash of a formula, I don't see the benefit, in the future I planned to buff all stats added to healing (not buy much, but ALL stats is nice) to make it worthwhile.

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One odd thing I noticed is that the fliers under the chessboard are pretty weak, doing only 0-1 damage.

Yeah, they are the same skulls you fight at the pyramid, the ones on the chessboard map are much stronger. Pretty weak for that part, but due is a very short part and largely unrelevant, so I let it be.

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Mungola - Toughest boss so far and I died a couple of times trying to use the sword as main attack, then went mostly with Lance/Lightning Storm instead. The lag makes it much harder to dodge/block his fireball and it's pretty easy to take two hits in a row here (the evade cap really comes into play here). It gets kinda tough to keep track of all the status effects; am I missing some text info in the interface or was there never any?

I find the sword big attacks works quite fine here, it always hits double with lvl2-3 charge attacks, you should get out of scene until sword is fully charged and skip the puppets though.

On the text info, I don't know, you can keep track somehow with all the different effect alternating the flashing aura, but i don't know it is possible with lots of buff and debuffs.

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I went back and reloaded a state before the Mungola fight to try other tactics and encountered a major bug here where the I couldn't input any actions. If you let the purple puppet live, it sometimes moves down from the stage and stays there, only healing Mungola occasionally which makes the battle much easier. However after a while it turned into a different puppet (your design?) and when it up to the stage the bug happened.

Nope, is a common expolit to let the puppets out of screen, the sometimes don't come to scene. I didn't know of that bug, never happened to me. Maybe is about the save state?

Quote
Another bug when looking for the Gauge: Right after bouncing up over the volcano and landing, when I went down to go back to the windwalker, I noticed the dark raptors acted as if I wasn't there. This was fixed after I went into the cave/item shop in the same area though.

Maybe there's an instruction I missed when replacing the raptors, I have to check that out. I have done the entire part and that didn't happened to me though.

Quote
Unfortunately there's a major bug: Just when Metal Magmar appears and stands up in the middle of the room, the background goes white and the game assumes you've won the entire fight. I tried two more times to see what caused it but I'm not sure. Sometimes Nazi Carlton appears along with Magmar and sometimes Magmar doesn't disappear and keeps attacking you while the ending cutscene starts.
FYI I'm using the same rom as before and it gets a checksum fail on startup but there hasn't been any other big problems up until this playthrough.

Didn't experienced that. By the way, spiders are only appearing if you kill the cleaner bot, you shouldn't they hit too hard in any version of the game.

Now that you mention it, maybe it has something to do with FuSoYa incompatibility? I always test the game without it after all.

Thanks again for the analysis, I was thinking, maybe alchemy need a bit of a change with the damage multiplier per level after all. Even a lvl 6 flash could be more powerful than a lvl 3 lance, for example.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 03:09:50 pm by Ninakoru »

PresidentLeever

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Re: ROM Hacks: New Secret of Evermore balance patch
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2013, 01:37:45 pm »
Yes, could be the emulator (zsnes) or the 2P patch. I tried to not use fast forward to make sure that wasn't it.
I'll play through hard mode again in snes9x some time, I'm just finishing up a replay of normal mode focusing on Fire magic this time around and frankly I need a break from the game. :) You're right that Firepower is pretty good if you focus on elemental magic, but soon replaced by later spells anyway. Not much to do about the game showering you with spells near the end.

Point I was trying to make is just that the added HP doesn't always add challenge but rather makes things more tedious (more so if focusing on melee attacks), with some exceptions.

Good points about One Up and alchemy damage, thanks for the reply.
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Ninakoru

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Re: ROM Hacks: New Secret of Evermore balance patch
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2013, 03:18:59 pm »
Point I was trying to make is just that the added HP doesn't always add challenge but rather makes things more tedious (more so if focusing on melee attacks), with some exceptions.

I am full aware of it, but was a quick hard patch forged in a few hours, only adding 25% extra damage, 10% extra hit and 50% extra HP to enemies. For the time invested i think the result is quite good, not overly difficult.

Another playthough with elemental magic?? Wow, sure you like this game, 3 plays in a row! Nice!

As I said, whenever I take another round of hacking this game, I'll make a special version with added mechanics, so "harder" has an added value ;)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 03:26:26 pm by Ninakoru »

mrjojo1267

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Re: ROM Hacks: New Secret of Evermore balance patch
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2013, 05:20:01 am »
Brilliant review PresidentLeever, very thorough! Right now, the only bug (wel not really a bug) I came across is that sometimes there's a slow-down of the game although it happens when there's a lot of stuff happening on screen at once so its not surprising.

Question #2: Is the market timer supposed to reset if you get out and go back to Crustacia (to buy bronze gear), then return?

I tried something similar during one of my very, very early playthroughs (back in 1996 on the snes!) and I think that the timer freezes until you re-enter instead of resetting or continuing. I can't remmeber but I think that's what happened to me.

Adding Hp alone would make the game a bit tedious, I can agree with that. But with the added attack damage and hit % does make it more fun and challenging for me. Adding new mechanics such as elemental resistances would be pretty damn awesome, it would greatly increase the strategic aspect of the game as you would have to think about which formulae to take in every area and try to work out which enemies are resistant/vulnerable to a particular spell. Although I am sure adding this new dimension to the game would be quite difficult and time-consuming but what do I know?  :-[

Reached Gothica now, loving the game!

Azkadellia

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Re: ROM Hacks: New Secret of Evermore balance patch
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2013, 06:17:02 am »
I tried something similar during one of my very, very early playthroughs (back in 1996 on the snes!) and I think that the timer freezes until you re-enter instead of resetting or continuing. I can't remmeber but I think that's what happened to me.

Nope. Once you enter Market Town for the first time, you have 15 minutes until the next event to pretty much grind weapon levels, money, and/or regular levels.
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mrjojo1267

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Re: ROM Hacks: New Secret of Evermore balance patch
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2013, 05:54:06 am »
Ah ok thanks for confirming it. I usually just stay in the area having a friendly chatter with the vendors and the old man-version of Neo.

PresidentLeever

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Re: ROM Hacks: New Secret of Evermore balance patch
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2013, 01:06:08 pm »
Well no, it definitely did reset (or at least pause) for me; I had over 10 minutes left after going back to crustacia (walking, btw) and returning.
Maybe it's because of the 2-player patch, though.
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mrjojo1267

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Re: ROM Hacks: New Secret of Evermore balance patch
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2013, 05:27:21 am »
Lol well something like that did happen to me in the original snes game so you could be right President. I always found it incredibly atmospheric and quite scary when one second there's loud noises of banter and animal noises and then the next second, all becomes quiet apart from the wind and high-pitched tweets from a couple of birds  :o

PresidentLeever

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Re: ROM Hacks: New Secret of Evermore balance patch
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2013, 03:37:15 pm »
Yeah, awesome build up to the next scene there :)
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XETH

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Re: ROM Hacks: New Secret of Evermore balance patch
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2015, 03:09:20 pm »
"Unfortunately there's a major bug: Just when Metal Magmar appears and stands up in the middle of the room, the background goes white and the game assumes you've won the entire fight."

Confirmed. No Chance to fight against Metal Magmar or Carltron. some seconds after metal magmar appears, cartron appears and then some seconds later the fight is over.

I loaded a savestate again and again to proof that.

I used two Player hack and Balance patch.

As i never saw this with 2 Player hack,  ist very likely that it's a result or incompatibility of Balance patch with other patches.

Beside this bug,
- is it possible to prevent wings glitch for invulnerability?
- is it possible to make callbead 8x trick ineffective like you did with Magic spells?
by the way, Energize enables at least 4x trick for Magic spells, as the 100% progressbar is complete within 1 second.


PresidentLeever

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Re: ROM Hacks: New Secret of Evermore balance patch
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2015, 12:00:34 pm »
Good to see some relatively new activity in the thread. :)
I remember Ninakoru mentioning on GameFAQs that reloading normally (not save states) could reset things and make them work properly again, so you might want to try that.

I am replaying yet again, mainly to compare it to the WIP Secret of Mana mod but also to make a thorough list of suggestions for the future.
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zhade

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Re: ROM Hacks: New Secret of Evermore balance patch
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2015, 12:54:36 am »
"Unfortunately there's a major bug: Just when Metal Magmar appears and stands up in the middle of the room, the background goes white and the game assumes you've won the entire fight."

Confirmed. No Chance to fight against Metal Magmar or Carltron. some seconds after metal magmar appears, cartron appears and then some seconds later the fight is over.

I loaded a savestate again and again to proof that.

I used two Player hack and Balance patch.

As i never saw this with 2 Player hack,  ist very likely that it's a result or incompatibility of Balance patch with other patches.

Beside this bug,
- is it possible to prevent wings glitch for invulnerability?
- is it possible to make callbead 8x trick ineffective like you did with Magic spells?
by the way, Energize enables at least 4x trick for Magic spells, as the 100% progressbar is complete within 1 second.



I played with the 2player patch and the balance patch and It didnt seem to have any issue, I made it to the end of the game. I only played in single player tho, I actually thought I applied the balance patch to a clean rom but only found later that I applied it over a rom with the 2player patch. Maybe you applied the 2P patch after the balance patch and it somehow messed things up ? Im not sure I used the latest version of the balance patch or the 2P patch and I think I used the normal difficulty patch.

Loved it btw !

seraph9888

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Re: ROM Hacks: New Secret of Evermore balance patch
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2016, 12:46:38 pm »
heya: just wanted to say i'm loving the hack and report a minor bug: whenever i find limestone the game says i found amulets instead.