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Author Topic: So... Fallout 4 is out.  (Read 4119 times)

SleepyFist

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So... Fallout 4 is out.
« on: November 10, 2015, 05:04:52 pm »
And I cant play it yet, the servers appear to be totally swamped with this damn updating the game has to go through to actually be playable, :banghead:, does anyone who has it working already have any thoughts on it?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 04:47:52 pm by SleepyFist »
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SunGodPortal

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Re: So... Fallout 4 is out.
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2015, 07:11:43 pm »
Quote
And I cant play it yet, the servers appear to be totally swamped with this damn updating the game has to go through to actually be playable, :banghead:, does anyone who has it working already have any thoughts on it? (Keep it mostly spoiler free please)

Sounds like a design flaw.

Games used to come out once they were finished. What happened to this industry? :huh:

Also, once the servers disappear in the future, does that make the game useless?
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SleepyFist

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Re: So... Fallout 4 is out.
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2015, 07:46:32 pm »
Sounds like a design flaw.

Games used to come out once they were finished. What happened to this industry? :huh:

Also, once the servers disappear in the future, does that make the game useless?
From what I've gathered so far this Update is in fact basically the 24 Jiggabytes withheld from the physical copy because of space constraints on the DVD or something, im not exactly angry about this, but it is damned annoying, It'l probably be downloading into tomorrow afternoon at this rate.

But yeah, in the future when servers go down, we'll all likely just end up using cracked full versions (please dont flag me again) provided either officially via the company that made the game or from "those sources" I guess.

EDIT: IT IS DONE, It actually seems pretty okay so far, though I have spent as much time fighting RadRoaches as I have Lag and Glitches.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 08:12:44 pm by SleepyFist »
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JCE3000GT

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Re: So... Fallout 4 is out.
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2015, 09:41:19 pm »
I was at the launch party at one of our local gamestops and managed to get my pre-order fulfilled at 11:05pm and was at home and fired it up before midnight so my update was pretty quick to download.  So far after almost 30 in game hours I've experienced zero lag and no framerate issues on my XBOX One with Fallout 4.  Mostly I'm amazed how good it is but there are small complaints--well very small.  As a side note I've spent a third of the time building things in Sanctuary which as a result has given me a HUGE experience boost.  :D

Chpexo

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« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2015, 09:50:30 pm »
.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 11:52:16 am by Chpexo »

magictrufflez

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Re: So... Fallout 4 is out.
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2015, 11:46:42 pm »
I'm actually kind of glad I'm in grad school right now, because I'd probably have bought a PS4 and this earlier this week.  I have too much other stuff to focus on right now that I think I'll be waiting at least for the inevitable "ultimate" edition where they fix all the bugs next year.

SunGodPortal

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Re: So... Fallout 4 is out.
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2015, 01:28:54 am »
Quote
I'm actually kind of glad I'm in grad school right now, because I'd probably have bought a PS4 and this earlier this week.  I have too much other stuff to focus on right now that I think I'll be waiting at least for the inevitable "ultimate" edition where they fix all the bugs next year.

I'm glad I'm old so I'm not too busy having fun... :P
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Tharthan

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Re: So... Fallout 4 is out.
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2015, 12:27:04 pm »
Games used to come out once they were finished. What happened to this industry? :huh:

Haven't you heard of "open access betas" and "patching the game as you go"? Why bother going through all of the trouble of hiring bugtesters and playtesters and quality assurance people when one can release it when it is buggy, let the fans playtest it, and then touch it up when one feels like it?

Maybe one could even release the fixes as DLC for, oh, ten dollars or something. Make the fans pay for something which ought to already be there.

Perhaps the thought behind that kind of format is due to some business people taking a particularly cynical look at something like the Minecraft model. Rather than see it for what it is, they instead look at it as "make fans bugtesters, playtesters and quality assurance people".

Also, once the servers disappear in the future, does that make the game useless?

I don't know about this case, but some older server-only games still have dedicated communities keeping them up with their own servers.

Again, I don't know if something like that could be done in this case, but I'm just throwing that out there.

FAST6191

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Re: So... Fallout 4 is out.
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2015, 01:06:10 pm »
"Games used to come out once they were finished."
err *points to site we are presently talking on*, granted it was mostly called cut content and "not arcade perfect" but I would stand by the remark.

As for patching as you go that is pretty standard software development these days and I am up for that in games. Certainly some devs/publishers take the piss a bit here but I can not see it as a universal negative and may even have several positives.

"Maybe one could even release the fixes as DLC for, oh, ten dollars or something"
ten dollars is less than the price of a sequel which is what usually happened before.

Tharthan

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Re: So... Fallout 4 is out.
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2015, 01:30:44 pm »
err *points to site we are presently talking on*, granted it was mostly called cut content and "not arcade perfect" but I would stand by the remark.

That's not the same thing.

Cut content is cut content. They at least let things go through quality assurance, bug testing and playtesting.

"Not arcade perfect" was largely due to the consoles which were being ported to and time constraints.

ten dollars is less than the price of a sequel which is what usually happened before.

That's no excuse.

You're thinking of some of the worst examples. There were plenty of games which came out "full" when they were released.

Due to this "new hip, happening and trendy" style of game release, we have this occurring on a massive scale.


KaioShin

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Re: So... Fallout 4 is out.
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2015, 01:52:24 pm »
I guess we can't just talk about new games on this forum anymore since henceforth all mentions of a new game will be taken over by "QQ games used to be so much better".

We get it guys.  :-X

On-Topic: I'll give the game a fair shake this weekend and then I'm sure I'll have some thoughts to share. Wasn't a big fan of FO3 though. (New Vegas was much better).
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Tharthan

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Re: So... Fallout 4 is out.
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2015, 02:12:16 pm »
I guess we can't just talk about new games on this forum anymore since henceforth all mentions of a new game will be taken over by "QQ games used to be so much better".

We get it guys.  :-X

No no no, That's not it.

The problem is that, to get an actual good game, one has to jump through hoops nowadays. Too many companies have decided that they have no incentive to:

1. Announce game (or not).

2. Develop, bugtest, playtest, go through quality assurance- the whole nine yards.

3. Release game.

4. Get feedback for game.

5. Respond to feedback in some way.

---

Instead they do some variant of the following instead:

1. Announce game in every nook and cranny they possibly can, blustering all the while.

2. Put together a mock-up.

3. Wait for reactions on social media.

4. Respond.

5. Put together a barely playable beta.

6. Have fans play the beta.

7. Gauge their reactions.

8. Keep this going on for a while.

9. (possibly) Remove ability to play beta.

10. Release game half-baked.

11. Wait weeks, perhaps months.

12. Release "patches" for the game, perhaps costing money.

13. Complain about lack of sales.

14. Possibly repeat this process with a few other games, possibly not.

15. Either switch over to the mobile gaming market or close company doors.

It's absolutely ludicrous.

Most of that stuff ought to be done by the company making the game themselves and people who they have hired, not random fans on the Web. For crying out loud, man. What gives?

FAST6191

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Re: So... Fallout 4 is out.
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2015, 02:40:23 pm »
Hey the second one is the tried and true method for making ROM hacks.

Also "was largely due to the consoles which were being ported to and time constraints."... six of one, half a dozen of another from where I sit.

Tharthan

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Re: So... Fallout 4 is out.
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2015, 03:04:16 pm »
Hey the second one is the tried and true method for making ROM hacks.

Ah, but here's the key difference:

ROM hacks are purely fan efforts, where as video games are not necessarily.

SunGodPortal

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Re: So... Fallout 4 is out.
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2015, 03:45:19 pm »
Quote
"Games used to come out once they were finished."
err *points to site we are presently talking on*, granted it was mostly called cut content and "not arcade perfect" but I would stand by the remark.

As for patching as you go that is pretty standard software development these days and I am up for that in games. Certainly some devs/publishers take the piss a bit here but I can not see it as a universal negative and may even have several positives.

If I go to a restaraunt and order a hamburger and it shows up raw, I send it back because I ordered a finished hamburger, not one that was rushed out before it was completed that requires me to sit there and watch the cook patch it up while I wait impatiently. In theory, this is no different.

Also, just because something is standard practice, that doesn't make it a positive.

Quote
Hey the second one is the tried and true method for making ROM hacks.

Because nobody pays for ROM hacks.
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Tharthan

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Re: So... Fallout 4 is out.
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2015, 03:53:39 pm »
If I go to a restaraunt and order a hamburger and it shows up raw, I send it back because I ordered a finished hamburger, not one that was rushed out before it was completed that requires me to sit there and watch the cook patch it up while I wait impatiently. In theory, this is no different.

Like common sense, that old saying "the customer is always right" doesn't seem to be paid attention to by businesses these days.

November 13, 2015, 04:56:53 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Because nobody pays for ROM hacks.

If we look at that statement from another perspective:

What do we already know?

Well we know that it has been the case that game companies make games people wanted to buy, or they wouldn't make money. They either understand this, or they do not make any money.

So what does that mean?

That could mean one or more of a few things:

Possibility 1. People do not want to buy games which have for the longest time been considered and understood to be "professional quality games" (or "double A battery games" or whatever term you want to use).

If this is the case, then that means that, at least from the pure business perspective, the primary demographic of video games has changed.

If for the sake of argument we gruntle such a scenario, we are faced with this question:

What could that new demographic be?

...

Possibility 2. People do want to buy professional quality games, but nevertheless companies do not see any meaningful pecuniary gain from having them made.

If for the sake of argument we gruntle such a scenario, we are faced with this question:

Why do the companies feel that they will not get anything from making professional quality games?

...

Possibility 3: De Nile is not just a river in Egypt.

If for the case of argument we gruntle such a scenario we are face with this question:

Are there any other places where it is a river?

---

Now to address those possibilities:

P1. What could that new demographic be?

I'm completely biased in this matter, so take what I'm saying here with a grain of salt, but perhaps the mobile video game market is actually raking in more money for gaming companies than "real" video games (qualifier: gaming as its own medium with its own dedicated devices, community etc.)

I ought to note that, in Japan, where the post-Video Game crash video game boom as we know it came from, they were swift to pick up on mobile video game playing.

Whilst I am personally against their doing this, the fact that Nintendo has decided to go and put some things in the mobile gaming business is not entirely unprecedented. Back in the 2000s, POKéMON Crystal in Japan could connect to mobile phones and one could make a website on their servers and they. Similarly, Mobile Golf was a sequel to the Mario Golf Game Boy kinda-RPG-Sports hybrid game which was itself for the Game Boy and could connect to mobile phones and do stuff.

The difference today is that the spread of mobile phones or rather "cyberphones" and games for them is so widespread that it many people think "why buy a game console when I can buy a trendy gewgaw that is more convenient which I can carry around all day and never put down?"

It doesn't matter if the games are more poorly made than before. Convenience matters to them more than quality.

P2. Why do the companies feel that they will not get anything from making professional quality games?

I can think of two possibilities off of the top of my head:

1. They have already made so much money that they have been consumed by greed.

2. They actually are correct, and they wouldn't get any meaningful yield.

I think that it is actually somewhere in between those two, personally.

P3. Are there any other places where it is a river?

Actually, yes.

The Nyl River in South Africa has the Nile River as its namesake.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 05:04:29 pm by Tharthan »

FAST6191

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Re: So... Fallout 4 is out.
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2015, 06:09:38 pm »
If I go to a restaraunt and order a hamburger and it shows up raw, I send it back because I ordered a finished hamburger, not one that was rushed out before it was completed that requires me to sit there and watch the cook patch it up while I wait impatiently. In theory, this is no different.

Also, just because something is standard practice, that doesn't make it a positive.

As long as what is advertised is what is sold then that is fine, if you are sold the theoretical result of a development project and some promise then so be it. I can not say it is how I prefer to roll for games and devices, indeed I do not preorder or do non equity crowdfunding for just this reason, but it is not an invalid model for software and games are software when all is said and done. Also I would never say the status quo is invariably a positive (or that Status Quo were invariably a positive) but as "Games used to come out once they were finished" was the statement that saw my reply -- there have always been buggy, broken messes.

As for the "tried and true" comment I fear we have had an internet sarcasm, tongue in cheek or silliness detection failure.

On "the customer is always right" then some think that, personally I think my employee is back here tomorrow and if you have just threatened to "never ever come back here again" then basic logic behoves me consider siding with the employee, or at least investigating what actually happened.

On making money. The same is true of Hollywood, they still make Oscar bait though.

SleepyFist

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Re: So... Fallout 4 is out.
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2015, 06:15:52 pm »
umm,  hi guys :-\

Just thought id throw in my two cents, I really don't know exactly what happened in the development, but despite the flaws it's not actually a bad game, somebody obviously did give  a damn about making this to put so much work into the game as it is, something definitely went awry during quality control though.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 06:39:28 pm by SleepyFist »
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FAST6191

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Re: So... Fallout 4 is out.
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2015, 06:36:51 pm »
Oh right fallout 4. Apparently I lost my friend to it and will probably see him in a week or so after it has subsided. I am opting for the now standard Bethesda open world game strategy of wait for patches, DLC, mods (even if I have not used a mod since http://sureai.net/games/nehrim/ ) and such like to hit first. Though before that I still want to get a day or two in elder scrolls online just to run from one side to the other.

That said Fallout 3 and onwards never quite scratched a gameplay itch as much as exploration and I still have Witcher 3 to play.

Isao Kronos

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Re: So... Fallout 4 is out.
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2015, 10:07:17 pm »
new vegas best fallout imo