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Author Topic: I don't understand the ROM/ISO Info Section when submitting a hack  (Read 4967 times)

snarfblam

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Re: I don't understand the ROM/ISO Info Section when submitting a hack
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2015, 08:53:14 pm »
I believe the current guidelines are somewhat broken as far as NES hacks are concerned. While it is clear that a checksum is required, it is not clear if it is over the header or not.

It is not required to be either, but I'd strongly recommend you state which one you're providing if you make a submission. Emulators will give you a hash on the unheadered ROM. General purpose hashing utilities will give you a hash that includes the header (and byte-swapping/interleaving/overdump/etc). Or, for completeness, you can provide both. ROM Hasher spits out something like this, and couldn't possibly be easier to use. Everyone is also certainly more than welcome to use a format that does file verification.
Quote
No-Intro Name: Sonic 3D Blast ~ Sonic 3D Flickies' Island (USA, Europe)
(No-Intro version  20130710-102701)
File SHA-1: 576F578D0ED9740A0325F6EB4C7530D86123DD29
ROM SHA-1: 89957568386A5023D198AC2251DED9DFB2AB65E7

In the case of NES, if you see that the file hash is wrong but the ROM hash is right, you can be pretty certain it's just a case of header garbage.

RetroRain

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Re: I don't understand the ROM/ISO Info Section when submitting a hack
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2015, 01:01:34 am »
@Rockman

Why don't you add the MMC5 patch to the Optimum release?
You could do the same with other Optimum releases of yours.

Simply add the complete Optimum patch along with another patch that has only the MMC5 modification in a nice .RAR
Just be sure to edit the hack description to mention what each one of the two patches does.

Because sometimes the simplest way to do something just doesn't occur to someone.

That's a good idea.  I don't know why it didn't even occur to me to do that.  You're right, I CAN put both patches in a single zip/rar file.  Such an easy thing to do, and yet I didn't even think to do that.

Thanks for the advice.  I'll keep it in mind the next time I have two different versions. :)

Recca

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Re: I don't understand the ROM/ISO Info Section when submitting a hack
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2015, 02:36:23 am »
I disagree with the idea of removing IPS patches completely. For starters, it's a very small and simple to use file that is still the most commonly known and used. For ROM hackers, it's not a big deal what type of file they use for patching, but most gamers have no idea how to use anything besides an IPS patch. Not only are IPS patching utilities easier to use than those of other types, but they also allow for the soft patching method with Zsnes and Snes9x.

RHDN could encourage people to not use them anymore, but not ban them completely. Doing so will stop many potential ROM hacks and translations from being submitted to this site anymore in the future. Besides, do you really want to see a ton of people asking "how do I patch this" or "how do I use this patch"?

I believe that it's best to allow people to choose for themselves what they want to do and which patch format to use. We at Dynamic-Designs for example, have multiple patch formats available for download for most of our projects (including all the current ones, but there's plans to release multiple patch formats for some of the older translations as well). Besides, what's the point in using new patch formats for old gaming systems such as the SNES when IPS does the job rather well? I understand updating the patch types used for newer and larger systems, not the older small ones that have games under 16 MB...

By the way, not to get off topic here, but what's with all the Zsnes hate lately? Sure it's not the most accurate emulator for ROM hacking and beta testing, but it's still damn good for gaming in general. And yes, I know that there's a few games that don't work well or even at all with Zsnes, but that's where Snes9x comes in handy. When it comes to casual gaming, most people on gaming and emulation sites still prefer Zsnes, followed by Snes9x in that order. For example, I still use Zsnes for playing most games and Snes9x for beta testing translations and playing games that don't work well with Zsnes. It may be a bit out of date, but it's still a great emulator nonetheless in my opinion. Not to mention, one of the first SNES ones ever made, as well as small in size, simple to use, functional and requiring no installation.
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SunGodPortal

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Re: I don't understand the ROM/ISO Info Section when submitting a hack
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2015, 02:52:32 am »
Quote
Besides, do you really want to see a ton of people asking "how do I patch this" or "how do I use this patch"?

Aren't there already posts like that every day? :P

I like IPS for reasons that have already been expressed. When I patch a ROM and it doesn't work right I add/remove the header (with Tush or a hex editor) and see if that does the trick. If it doesn't I just download the ROM from a different site. If there were problems of this sort (which were incredibly rare) I was usually able to find the right ROM with the 2nd or 3rd download. These days I have the knowledge and skills to take a more calculated approach but I don't because the way I just described doesn't require much thought. "Oh. This ROM doesn't work. Google. Download." and in a matter of a minute or two it's all sorted out with next to no thought or effort. Any idiot can do that (even without the header add/removal part) and find the right ROM for the hack. If they can't then they're even lazier than me and don't deserve to play hacks. They should just stick to checkers.
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puzzledude

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Re: I don't understand the ROM/ISO Info Section when submitting a hack
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2015, 07:29:30 am »
Quote
I disagree with the idea of removing IPS patches completely. For starters, it's a very small and simple to use file that is still the most commonly known and used. For ROM hackers, it's not a big deal what type of file they use for patching, but most gamers have no idea how to use anything besides an IPS patch. Not only are IPS patching utilities easier to use than those of other types, but they also allow for the soft patching method with Zsnes and Snes9x.
Not really, the UPS patching is identical to IPS patching. The UPS is the "next gen" derivate of IPS and easy to use as well. Shame that IPS "has won" the battle and that everything is based on it, specially soft patching. It would be easy to implement soft patching for UPS, I believe the new Snes9x actually has the UPS soft patching programed already.

Quote
RHDN could encourage people to not use them anymore, but not ban them completely. Doing so will stop many potential ROM hacks and translations from being submitted to this site anymore in the future. Besides, do you really want to see a ton of people asking "how do I patch this" or "how do I use this patch"?
The author of the hack can make the UPS as easy as IPS. If the IPS exists and if any user knows how to correctly patch it, the additional/alternative patch can be easily made.

And the person who is patching it should have no problems when patching IPS or UPS or any other format actually, since the process is always the same or similar.

But there is one difference: IPS patch can produce false of bugged roms (due to patching to the wrong original file), other patching formats don't. I really don't understand why this format has won, or why wan't it updated with that easy-to-implement CRC checksum validating before the patching is actually processed. Then it would be the best patching format for small games.

mziab

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Re: I don't understand the ROM/ISO Info Section when submitting a hack
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2015, 08:30:47 am »
Not really, the UPS patching is identical to IPS patching. The UPS is the "next gen" derivate of IPS and easy to use as well. Shame that IPS "has won" the battle and that everything is based on it, specially soft patching. It would be easy to implement soft patching for UPS, I believe the new Snes9x actually has the UPS soft patching programed already.

UPS was actually deprecated by byuu when some of its inherent flaws came to light. One of them was that the patches weren't reversible in all circumstances (AFAIR if you used expansion), basically defeating the main selling point of XOR patching. Another was that the spec had some ambiguities which could lead to unintended differences between implementations. BPS drops the reversible patching aspect and simplifies the spec, while introducing delta patching, which is useful in some scenarios. All in all, I personally believe it to be a superior format. And if memory serves, newer builds of Snes9x have both UPS and BPS soft-patching support.

ShadowOne333

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Re: I don't understand the ROM/ISO Info Section when submitting a hack
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2015, 10:46:18 am »
Because sometimes the simplest way to do something just doesn't occur to someone.

That's a good idea.  I don't know why it didn't even occur to me to do that.  You're right, I CAN put both patches in a single zip/rar file.  Such an easy thing to do, and yet I didn't even think to do that.

Thanks for the advice.  I'll keep it in mind the next time I have two different versions. :)

No need to thank. :)

Just trying to be of help, glad you can work it out that way, I find it rather simple and easy so that you don't have to deal with that kind of problems with the submissions.
Just remember to add a description in the Hack's page about each patch like:
Quote
Optimum: Contains a MMC5 + CHR-ROM conversion of the game.
MMC5: Contains only a MMC5 conversion of the game, while retaining the original CHR-RAM.

Add that and you're good to go. :)

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On a side note, what is going on with the constant IPS/UPS/BPS patch discussion?
Isn't that a little out of topic here?