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Author Topic: Puzzledude's seminar on romhacking  (Read 9851 times)

SunGodPortal

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Re: Puzzledude's seminar on romhacking
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2015, 12:53:46 am »
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What does that makes me if I finish two :D

Hero. :beer:
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.

BlackDog61

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Re: Puzzledude's seminar on romhacking
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2015, 07:08:48 pm »
The personal reward should really come from the work itself.
Yep.
Or from the self at work.
Whichever of the two works for you.
The self-satisfaction of knowledge and understanding, or adrenaline that comes with accomplishment.
Anything goes!

I still think this thread is a little too much biased twards the "warning" side of welcoming newcomers.
Newcomers, please come and enjoy the pains and joys of the art!

M-Tee

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Re: Puzzledude's seminar on romhacking
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2015, 08:01:37 pm »
I'm pretty opposed to telling people why they should do what they like to do.

That said, I also agree wholeheartedly with Seihen that this wall of text venting personal emotions would be better off without the passively aggressive and deceptive thread title.

optomon

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Re: Puzzledude's seminar on romhacking
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2015, 08:09:27 pm »
I started rom hacking just so I could nerdily change around levels in games, to do what wasn't able to do all those years growing up, but always dreamed if doing. After a few years it evolved into the foremost vehicle in which I could expound upon my creative and technical abilities. It has been more fulfilling than any work I've done, including education and career stuff, and yet, 90% of my work has never been (or has yet to be) part of a finished project even after 12 years. I learned a long to stop caring about that, or what other people think. It is integral to who I am, and I will get there someday.

Working in a niche hobby that is not for everyone, it is far more important to try and please a tight group of people a lot than to please as many as possible. I was put down my whole life for being a nerd who played around in his mind too much, for having my own agenda and not conforming to what everyone else did, for being a failure in school, for being socially and physically awkward. A person with a fleeting opinion on the internet is the last thing that is going to make me feel discouraged.

SunGodPortal

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Re: Puzzledude's seminar on romhacking
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2015, 08:10:22 pm »
Honestly, I hate this thread. It's embarrassing and shouldn't exist.
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.

Jorpho

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Re: Puzzledude's seminar on romhacking
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2015, 08:27:16 pm »
Eh, back in the day it seemed like every other day someone was flamboyantly declaring "IMMA QUITTIN DA SCENE!".

Quote
1204: What are the benefits of "The Scene"?

 Well, if you're into lame cartoon pornography, jokes about sexual
 orientation and the occasional reach around, then "The Scene" is for
 you. If you actually hope to make progress in your ROM hacking, then
 there are no benefits.

 1206: How do I quit the scene?
 
 First, get frustrated with some minor thing. Then post on all the
 messageboards about how you're quitting "The Scene". Wait for a day
 or two and then start working on your projects again, after a week or
 so, start posting on the messageboards again. This might not make
 sense now, but it will after you've been around "The Scene" for a few
 weeks.
InVerse, 2003
This signature is an illusion and is a trap devised by Satan. Go ahead dauntlessly! Make rapid progres!

Chpexo

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« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2015, 11:23:55 pm »
.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 07:55:05 am by Chpexo »

stuffgnome

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Re: Puzzledude's seminar on romhacking
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2015, 10:06:32 am »
Honestly, I hate this thread. It's embarrassing and shouldn't exist.

+1

dACE

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Re: Puzzledude's seminar on romhacking
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2015, 11:50:19 am »
The very mature admins also help tremendously to shape the relatively mature community as a whole as well.

I don't find the admins all that great. Issuing warnings and slapping you with predefined (and blown out of proportions) accusations - when all you do is try to be helpful. That's my experience anyway.

/dACE

KaioShin

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Re: Puzzledude's seminar on romhacking
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2015, 12:13:44 pm »
I don't find the admins all that great. Issuing warnings and slapping you with predefined (and blown out of proportions) accusations - when all you do is try to be helpful. That's my experience anyway.

/dACE

Don't blame the admins, blame the moderators, who are completely seperate :P
All my posts are merely personal opinions and not statements of fact, even if they are not explicitly prefixed by "In my opinion", "IMO", "I believe", or similar modifiers. By reading this disclaimer you agree to reply in spirit of these conditions.

Quick Curly

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Re: Puzzledude's seminar on romhacking
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2015, 08:20:43 am »
It is understandable why the double standards explored in this topic are upsetting and discouraging.

Whether or not one works on and creates ROM hacking projects for themselves first, which is personally how I've always felt it should be, because ROM hacking grants us the opportunity to bring new life to our favourite childhood games and create even more great memories, it's still discouraging to put in all our time and effort - usually multiple years worth - to create a new experience, only for someone who likely wouldn't even know how to make a ROM hack to come along and only focus on what they didn't like about it, and make it seem like we didn't put any time and effort into it at all, to make the game that "they wanted".

True, you can't please everyone, but I do personally feel that people could generally be less judgmental.

Newbies are generally treated like they don't belong anymore, which probably discourages most from even posting at all after registering new accounts which will likely never even be used. Although, it goes both ways, because generally, new people hope for the simplest and swiftest solution, won't bother to attempt to do enough research on their own first, and will either ask for too much, not know how to make a "smart" post to elicit a positive and progressive response from more experienced users, and/or will not be as appreciative as they should be once they receive any potentially helpful information. It can be difficult to understand many of the processes involved, but effort is necessary and required in order to make any sort of progress. Most of us who have actually been around long enough to complete some projects are of a breed and mindset where we have the passion to bring our own visions to life that we are driven by what we believe we can achieve through dedication over time. Anymore, people seem to only show up because it's something to distract them for an afternoon until their attention redirects them to someone else, which means they will never put in the time themselves to become familiar with our passion, to fully understand and appreciate what we go through, and realize for themselves that their opinions are perhaps a bit too harsh or misguided in some situations (read, some).

It seemed like there were more newer users who made attempts to create ROM hacks years ago, at least, specifically at Board 2 in 2009, when it seemed like a pack of people interested in hacking SMB3 were considerably active. Even though they were new, and mistakes were made left and right, generally the positive was the main focus in being able to hopefully progress to more completed states for those projects. Anymore, if people see fewer actual releases, and from those releases, "reviews" that focus more on personal tastes in directing projects seemingly beyond the intended vision of the actual author(s), likely what seems to already be happening compared to years ago when it seemed like all the more familiar names in the ROM hacking community were still around, as opposed to now, will continue to happen even more so with fewer new people bothering to even try because it'll seem like an impossible task to please the continuously growing expectations of the vast, diverse opinions of the overall public.

However, for those truly passionate about their craft, they shouldn't be compromised by any potential negativity that comes their way, and while there will generally always be someone who will seemingly, absolutely refuse to be pleased no matter what, there should generally always be the folks out there who recognize and appreciate one's hard work and efforts, and those are the people who deserve to enjoy the fruits of our labour, in addition to first and foremost, ourselves.

Erockbrox

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Re: Puzzledude's seminar on romhacking
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2015, 04:27:59 am »
I like rom hacking old game for nostalgic reasons. Many of the games that I hack are games I grew up with when I was young. When I was a kid having the ability to create my own mario levels or super mario kart tracks or zelda adventure would have been a dream to me. Back then I didn't even own a computer nor had the internet.

Now there are tons of resources and tools available online to make your own versions out of these old school games. I see rom hacking as a privileged to breath new life into these classics!

Plus its also fun to see what you can do while working within limitations of the original game and to see how the original game developers solved many of the problems of making a game back in the 90's when all the information and data had to fit on a limited space on a cartridge.

I also have known puzzledude for many years and can say that he is a top expert on Zelda 3 rom hacking for sure. Its just that sometimes when we have invested years of our lives into our hobbies, sometimes we can reach low points and get depressed. After all it can be a lonely hobby at times.

MercuryPenny

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Re: Puzzledude's seminar on romhacking
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2015, 04:01:45 pm »
After all it can be a lonely hobby at times.
It really shouldn't be. ROM hacking is so isolationist and it has bothered me for about a year now how it's all 'learn ASM and do it yourself' or 'learn to port music and do it yourself' or 'design your own levels'. Not everyone can be a jack of all trades - in fact, such people are incredibly rare.

People like puzzledude wouldn't get so frustrated if they just got the well-deserved help they need.

tryphon

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Re: Puzzledude's seminar on romhacking
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2015, 04:09:34 pm »
And what do you propose ?

SunGodPortal

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Re: Puzzledude's seminar on romhacking
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2015, 05:06:23 pm »
Quote
People like puzzledude wouldn't get so frustrated if they just got the well-deserved help they need.

heh Puzzledude can do it all. Only thing I haven't seen him do was sprite editing.
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.

puzzledude

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Re: Puzzledude's seminar on romhacking
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2015, 03:54:23 pm »
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Only thing I haven't seen him do was sprite editing.
Yes, I can do that as well. Pretty much similar as all gfx editing (objects etc etc). The only thing I can not do is ASM, since this is somewhat specific, but Conn helped everyone here and made it happen, so basically we can make some fine mods.

Just for the record I'm not quiting anything, at least not until I finish what was planed (and that's quite a lot and will probably need some more years to finish).

The thread was more a satiric point of view on the whole thing, with a pessimistic note, due to the fact that romhacking is a so called grey area in general. So at least this part is accurate, the other parts of the message can easily be disregarded, if (as some of you pointed out) we ignore the critics, which we definitely should.

Quick Curly

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Re: Puzzledude's seminar on romhacking
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2015, 01:30:27 pm »
It really shouldn't be. ROM hacking is so isolationist and it has bothered me for about a year now how it's all 'learn ASM and do it yourself' or 'learn to port music and do it yourself' or 'design your own levels'. Not everyone can be a jack of all trades - in fact, such people are incredibly rare.
There are the people out there who enjoy being able to help other projects progress forward. :)
It comes down to if/when people are willing, available, and/or if the project in question is something that they are more familiar with than not, as that definitely helps with the time it takes to jump in with possible advice and/or solutions.
There's also always the chance that people who share common interests can discover one another and team up.
Sometimes it's lonely, but not always. Hang in there. :)

The thread was more a satiric point of view on the whole thing, with a pessimistic note, due to the fact that romhacking is a so called grey area in general. So at least this part is accurate, the other parts of the message can easily be disregarded, if (as some of you pointed out) we ignore the critics, which we definitely should.
From my own experiences, I've shared your feelings at different points in time, though I do my best to get past them, because there have always been those who have been supportive of me too, as I am of them.
You've accomplished a lot, you have the skills and patience to see your visions through, and no one can take that away.
Some "critics", if they can really all be considered that, just don't seem to have anything better to do than focus on the negative. It's unfortunate.
Everyone has their own vision, and if someone really wants to take the time to express theirs, and perhaps even rant, then they should be able to take the time and put forth the effort to make their own vision come to life, and not try to forcefully change the vision of someone else, especially if it means putting it down.
There are definitely ideas and suggestions that creators can agree with, but from the other side, it has to be understood that just because a project doesn't please a recipient entirely, it doesn't mean that a creator has to take the suggestions either, again, especially depending on how they're presented (whether attempting to be helpful, or being forceful and not caring enough to at least be considerate of both sides, including the consideration that someone working on a project is taking their time to make something for everyone else to hopefully enjoy, even though, yes, it's their personal choice to do so).

Erockbrox

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Re: Puzzledude's seminar on romhacking
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2015, 08:36:07 pm »
My experience is that sometimes critics can actually be beneficial. While its true that some people will bash others work it is also true that if you listen to feedback from critics then you can hopefully make your game even better.

Just because you make a game doesn't automatically make the game good. If you get lots of negative critics odds are that its probably not hate, but that sad truth that the game just wasn't as good as the author may have thought.

The best thing to do though is to just try again and again until you succeed. I've seen artists who have created lots of art which wasn't well received and then finally one day they just come up with something and its a big hit! So yes, making games like other forms of art is challenging. You really never know how people will react to it. The main idea though is that if its your passion then don't let the negative criticisms negativity affect you. Use feedback as a way to guide you to become better!!!

« Last Edit: August 01, 2015, 08:41:36 pm by Erockbrox »

magictrufflez

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Re: Puzzledude's seminar on romhacking
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2015, 04:35:22 pm »
As someone who's only skill around here is offering constructive criticism/feedback, I like to think I contribute to the positive atmosphere on this site.

Maybe I've just been fortunate to not run into really obnoxious forum members, however.  I know I've seen some real D-Bag posts on other forums before, and I'm sure there are plenty buried around here too.  I'm sure I could work something in about doing a #2 where you eat, but I'm a bit tired right now.

Dr. Mario

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Re: Puzzledude's seminar on romhacking
« Reply #39 on: August 03, 2015, 01:14:46 am »
I mean criticism is always going to happen in any kind of art form. You don't think someone looked at the Mona Lisa and was like "meh"?

I did like three rom hacks. Legend of Zelda: Curse from the Outskirts was downright horrible. Castlevania: Cadence of Agony was mediocre at best, and Castlevania: Chorus of Mysteries might be the only one I can actually say I'm somewhat proud of.

There was an article published in a magazine about Curse.
Some guy this weekend at an Arcade Con literally got a picture with me and asked for my autograph because I made Cadence.
Reviews of Chorus ranged from "This should be the true Castlevania II" to stuff that was downright scathing. There's a review on this very site that says that Optomon and I shouldn't have even bothered.

Point being, people are never going to feel the same way about your work that you do. There's really nothing you can do about it except expect it to happen.
What is a man? Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more.