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Poll

Which control scheme would you prefer for the weak/strong attacks

B for Weak, forward + B for strong
0 (0%)
B for Weak, A for strong (running only available in towns)
0 (0%)
Forward B for weak, B for strong
0 (0%)
B for weak, Y for strong (X used for own menu and X again to change to other characters menu)
0 (0%)
other (please post your suggestion)
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 0

Author Topic: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack  (Read 114293 times)

zhade

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #480 on: February 28, 2018, 11:02:02 am »
Finally, here's v0.08, virtually all bugs that I have been made aware of have been fixed:
Download

As always, if you want to load a game from an earlier version, use the in-game save (no save states).

Sorry I don't have time to anwser to your replies right now, hopefully, most issues will be resolved by updating to the new version.

Information about each features are available when using the patcher (erm.. aside from the quick spell menu)
All features that are available to choose work. (some like strong and weak attacks are still a WIP.. but nothing bad should happen :P)


If you want to contact me here is the Discord Server for the project : https://discord.gg/cMYx3RH


Just one thing: can't find the post but someone said he had trouble in pureland where a scene soft-locks. I think this has something to do with one of the features that deals with the screen scrolling: try using an in-game save, or try a "safe save-sate": saving while exiting the ring menu, as the icons are scaterring but still visible.. (it might cause a crash anyway tho.. in-game is more safe..
repatch your rom with Walk_To_Edges / Cpu_dont_block_screen turned Off and try again.


lexluthermiester

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #481 on: March 02, 2018, 11:23:47 pm »
Finally, here's v0.08, virtually all bugs that I have been made aware of have been fixed: Download
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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #482 on: March 03, 2018, 01:52:12 am »
Could someone please tell me what the order is to apply these patches along with the gameplay improvement patch?
Secret of Mana Variable Width Font Edition
Item Limit "9" Patch
Secret of Mana Proper-caser
Secret of Mana Scroll Hack

I've tried doing Gameplay improvement Hack -> VWF -> Proper Caser -> Item Limit Patch but it ends up corrupted.
And then does the MSU-1 hack work with this as well? That one's not necessary but it'd be nice to know.

vivify93

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #483 on: March 03, 2018, 07:15:49 am »
(Edited for clarity; also, scroll hack actually requires no header, from what I can tell, despite the site saying the opposite.)

It's probably a header issue. Item Limit 9 patch requires no header, and the other mods (I'm not sure about zhade's gameplay improvement mod) all require a header. Use TUSH to add or remove headers. http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/608/ Try applying the others in this order:

1. Remove header (if needed)
2. Apply Item Limit 9
3. Apply Scroll Hack
4. Add header
5. Apply Proper Caser
6. Apply VWF Patch
6. Apply Gameplay Improvement
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 05:47:38 am by vivify93 »
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G061

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #484 on: March 04, 2018, 01:12:11 am »
It's probably a header issue. Item Limit 9 patch requires no header, and the other mods (I'm not sure about zhade's gameplay improvement mod) all require a header. Try applying the others in this order:

1. Remove header (if needed)
2. Apply Item Limit 9
3. Add header
4. Apply Scroll Hack
5. Apply Proper Caser
6. Apply VWF Patch
6. Apply Gameplay Improvement

Edit - Scroll hack actually requires no header, from what I can tell, despite the site saying the opposite.
This worked! Thanks so much.

Guadozoku

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #485 on: March 07, 2018, 05:54:33 am »
Can this be used with the MSU1 patch? I'd love to use party members don't block scrolling, MSU1 and scroll fix. Also the Japanese version but I kinda doubt that one.

lexluthermiester

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #486 on: March 07, 2018, 05:45:05 pm »
Can this be used with the MSU1 patch? I'd love to use party members don't block scrolling, MSU1 and scroll fix. Also the Japanese version but I kinda doubt that one.
It'll only take a few minutes to try out. Make a copy of your rom, then apply the block scrolling, then scroll fix, then MSU1. If that doesn't work try another combination until one works or you run out of options.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 07:03:59 pm by lexluthermiester »

DrDimension

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #487 on: March 11, 2018, 03:12:13 am »
Is there a patch available with just the code that stops the AI from getting stuck? I think that's the thing I want to apply most!

zhade

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #488 on: March 12, 2018, 08:49:03 pm »
New version, fixing a bug from last version
Download V0.10

Is there a patch available with just the code that stops the AI from getting stuck? I think that's the thing I want to apply most!

The patcher that comes with the patch lets you select which feature you want, so just uncheck all the others ;)
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 11:15:00 pm by zhade »

PresidentLeever

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #489 on: March 13, 2018, 08:18:44 pm »
Thanks for all the updates, thought I'd try playing this again now. I've tried to mention it in any forum discussion since the remake was released. :)

A few questions:
-Can you explain your reasoning behind the "no default equipment" feature?
-What is the magic recharge time on Easy?
-Spirits default levels - what does fully customizeable mean here?
-How did strong/weak attacks work in the original again, was it just a random animation change?
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zhade

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #490 on: March 14, 2018, 07:13:37 am »
Thanks for all the updates, thought I'd try playing this again now. I've tried to mention it in any forum discussion since the remake was released. :)

A few questions:
-Can you explain your reasoning behind the "no default equipment" feature?
Just making the very beginning of the game a little more challenging and make it so shops are not selling a useless item
-What is the magic recharge time on Easy?
There is no difficulty setting right now, the magic recharge time is 10sec. I plan to make some spells take less or no time otherwise in the case of Purim, using spells other than cure can be risky
-Spirits default levels - what does fully customizeable mean here?
-How did strong/weak attacks work in the original again, was it just a random animation change?

March 14, 2018, 07:15:56 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Thanks for all the updates, thought I'd try playing this again now. I've tried to mention it in any forum discussion since the remake was released. :)

A few questions:
-Can you explain your reasoning behind the "no default equipment" feature?
Just making the very beginning of the game a little more challenging and make it so shops are not selling a useless item
-What is the magic recharge time on Easy?
There is no difficulty setting right now, the magic recharge time is 10sec. I plan to make some spells take less or no time otherwise in the case of Purim, using spells other than cure can be risky
-Spirits default levels - what does fully customizeable mean here?
In the patching program, click on "Advanced", a bunch of variables can be customized in there, including the starting level of each spirit
-How did strong/weak attacks work in the original again, was it just a random animation change?

March 14, 2018, 07:22:12 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Thanks for all the updates, thought I'd try playing this again now. I've tried to mention it in any forum discussion since the remake was released. :)

A few questions:

-Can you explain your reasoning behind the "no default equipment" feature?
Just making the very beginning of the game a little more challenging and make it so shops are not selling a useless item

-What is the magic recharge time on Easy?
There is no difficulty setting right now, the magic recharge time is 10sec. I plan to make some spells take less or no time otherwise in the case of Purim, using spells other than cure can be risky

-Spirits default levels - what does fully customizeable mean here?
In the patching program, click on "Advanced", a bunch of variables can be customized in there, including the starting level of each spirit

-How did strong/weak attacks work in the original again, was it just a random animation change?
If by in the original you mean the "old ips version", it was kind of similar, pressing forward + attack resulted in a Strong attack that has a "thrust" animation, pressing attack alone resulted in a Weak attack (less damage, but power% drop to 30% instead of 0%). Now both attacks deal the same amount of damage/take as much time to recharge but the animations have been changed to make is so both have their situation where it is preferable

« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 07:22:12 am by zhade »

PresidentLeever

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #491 on: March 14, 2018, 08:13:27 am »
Thanks, I didn't realize you had started over in a way. No I meant before patching at all in regards to strong/weak attacks.

Some impressions after playing to gaia's navel with the latest version, all features included:
1. Not sure this has anything to do with the hack and it's a minor thing but I noticed rabites sometimes getting locked into an "escape" behavior and repeatedly moving into walls, making them sitting ducks.

2. There was some discussion about changing direction while running earlier, did you decide against it after all?

3. I'm not finding the manual block very useful on its own, which is a shame because I like the idea of replacing auto-block.
Fighting the early enemies, I go up and hit them and if they manage to attack too their hit takes priority, and there's no chance to block manually. If I managed to hit first, I'm better off just moving away and coming back since most attacks are too hard to read in the short window you can block without wasting stamina (understandable since the original wasn't designed with this in mind). If you hold and waste stamina then you can't retaliate effectively so there's not much point really. 
Against the mantis ant, its projectile was kinda glitchy (snes9x issue?) meaning it would sometimes become invisible while moving towards me, so I couldn't block that attack consistently without holding the button down for longer.

There's also the issue of charged attacks not taking priority over regular enemy attacks (at least not at the beginning of the animation?). I don't remember how it worked in SoM without the hack exactly but in Evermore, you would still perform the attack after an auto-block if you kept pressing attack which helped make this less annoying. I read through most of the thread again and I agree you should be able to take damage while charging but having the attack itself misfire completely is pretty annoying, maybe it could hit at the same time as you also take a hit?

If manual blocking without auto-block is to be a good alternative I think the timing should be more lenient (like 1-2 more seconds at least) so you can have this attack->block->attack rhythm without moving away as much. And if this is too easy then maybe the block should only cover the front of the player sprite, provided that's actually doable.

4. I played through SD1 recently and I felt the player's attack power was better scaled with the stamina meter there. We discussed this early on and you talked about looking into it, so is there any update on that?
The flow of battle gets a bit better with an ally and with them acting faster now (although with more aggressive enemies the girl is getting killed very easily), but maybe for the future Easy mode or if you don't want to change how blocking works, a more proportional system (or just a faster default charge) would be nice.

5. Don't think this is related to the hack either but I've noticed the archers in the forest can't be hit in succession like previous enemies, you'll always miss if you don't wait until they're not stunned anymore, whereas with other enemies you'll generally hit after a bit of a delay. Maybe something to look into.


March 14, 2018, 08:42:18 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
(Edited for clarity; also, scroll hack actually requires no header, from what I can tell, despite the site saying the opposite.)

It's probably a header issue. Item Limit 9 patch requires no header, and the other mods (I'm not sure about zhade's gameplay improvement mod) all require a header. Use TUSH to add or remove headers. http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/608/ Try applying the others in this order:

1. Remove header (if needed)
2. Apply Item Limit 9
3. Apply Scroll Hack
4. Add header
5. Apply Proper Caser
6. Apply VWF Patch
6. Apply Gameplay Improvement

Do you need to remove the header again before applying zhade's hack? I just got a glitchy mess after picking new game in snes9x.

Edit: Removing the header after step 6 made it work, except the scroll hack doesn't have any effect. Not sure if everything else is intact but it seems so.

Edit 2: But applying the scroll hack again after all the steps seems to have worked, so I would suggest this order:

1. Remove header (if needed)
2. Apply Item Limit 9
3. Add header
4. Apply Proper Caser
5. Apply VWF Patch
6. Remove header
7. Apply Gameplay Improvement
8. Apply Scroll Hack
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 03:08:13 pm by PresidentLeever »
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ExL

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #492 on: March 15, 2018, 03:35:10 am »
Haven't played in SoM for a long-long time, so it's like a new game to me with all changes, still wanna wait some time until playing at fullest.
Thoughts about manual block.
In complex scenario: move slowly while blocking, guard only from frontal attacks, gain energy with each blocked hit('til which level?), overcharging causes dizzy, releasing button triggers charged attack.
In less complex scenario: if done quickly defence triggers auto-counter lvl1 attack, on regular use  as is with ability to move slowly while defending.
Don't have a clue what limitations are in this case, but as is most daunting is staying for sometime before moving - can't hide, can't counter.

zhade

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #493 on: March 16, 2018, 02:33:45 am »
Thanks, I didn't realize you had started over in a way. No I meant before patching at all in regards to strong/weak attacks.

Some impressions after playing to gaia's navel with the latest version, all features included:
1. Not sure this has anything to do with the hack and it's a minor thing but I noticed rabites sometimes getting locked into an "escape" behavior and repeatedly moving into walls, making them sitting ducks.
This is normal behaviour, in their AI there is something that makes them do this when their HP is below a certain amount

2. There was some discussion about changing direction while running earlier, did you decide against it after all?
No, I plan to include this in a latter version

3. I'm not finding the manual block very useful on its own, which is a shame because I like the idea of replacing auto-block.
Fighting the early enemies, I go up and hit them and if they manage to attack too their hit takes priority, and there's no chance to block manually. If I managed to hit first, I'm better off just moving away and coming back since most attacks are too hard to read in the short window you can block without wasting stamina (understandable since the original wasn't designed with this in mind). If you hold and waste stamina then you can't retaliate effectively so there's not much point really. 
Against the mantis ant, its projectile was kinda glitchy (snes9x issue?) meaning it would sometimes become invisible while moving towards me, so I couldn't block that attack consistently without holding the button down for longer.
Indeed, im finding the manual block to be kind of useless in lots of situation lately.. altho Giving a longer window would make it OP IMO. I still use it sometimes in very specific situations like if there is an enemy using ranged attacks in a narrow corridor or if I end up in a corner / have nowhere to move away while recharging stamina, especially since the enemies get up much faster with "faster enemies". I think it is ok like this, so you still have to use the normal strategy of moving away as you recharge stamina, but have a little extra ability if needed. I guess I could increase the window just a little bit tho.

There's also the issue of charged attacks not taking priority over regular enemy attacks (at least not at the beginning of the animation?). I don't remember how it worked in SoM without the hack exactly but in Evermore, you would still perform the attack after an auto-block if you kept pressing attack which helped make this less annoying. I read through most of the thread again and I agree you should be able to take damage while charging but having the attack itself misfire completely is pretty annoying, maybe it could hit at the same time as you also take a hit?
Yeah, in the old ips patch I added something that made you invulnerable while unleashing a charged attack, I think i'll add it again. It is just so frustrating to have wasted time charging for northing

If manual blocking without auto-block is to be a good alternative I think the timing should be more lenient (like 1-2 more seconds at least) so you can have this attack->block->attack rhythm without moving away as much. And if this is too easy then maybe the block should only cover the front of the player sprite, provided that's actually doable.

4. I played through SD1 recently and I felt the player's attack power was better scaled with the stamina meter there. We discussed this early on and you talked about looking into it, so is there any update on that?
The flow of battle gets a bit better with an ally and with them acting faster now (although with more aggressive enemies the girl is getting killed very easily), but maybe for the future Easy mode or if you don't want to change how blocking works, a more proportional system (or just a faster default charge) would be nice.

5. Don't think this is related to the hack either but I've noticed the archers in the forest can't be hit in succession like previous enemies, you'll always miss if you don't wait until they're not stunned anymore, whereas with other enemies you'll generally hit after a bit of a delay. Maybe something to look into.

March 16, 2018, 02:43:55 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Thanks, I didn't realize you had started over in a way. No I meant before patching at all in regards to strong/weak attacks.

Some impressions after playing to gaia's navel with the latest version, all features included:
1. Not sure this has anything to do with the hack and it's a minor thing but I noticed rabites sometimes getting locked into an "escape" behavior and repeatedly moving into walls, making them sitting ducks.
This is normal behaviour, in their AI there is something that makes them do this when their HP is below a certain amount

2. There was some discussion about changing direction while running earlier, did you decide against it after all?
No, I plan to include this in a latter version

3. I'm not finding the manual block very useful on its own, which is a shame because I like the idea of replacing auto-block.
Fighting the early enemies, I go up and hit them and if they manage to attack too their hit takes priority, and there's no chance to block manually. If I managed to hit first, I'm better off just moving away and coming back since most attacks are too hard to read in the short window you can block without wasting stamina (understandable since the original wasn't designed with this in mind). If you hold and waste stamina then you can't retaliate effectively so there's not much point really. 
Against the mantis ant, its projectile was kinda glitchy (snes9x issue?) meaning it would sometimes become invisible while moving towards me, so I couldn't block that attack consistently without holding the button down for longer.
Indeed, im finding the manual block to be kind of useless in lots of situation lately.. altho Giving a longer window would make it OP IMO. I still use it sometimes in very specific situations like if there is an enemy using ranged attacks in a narrow corridor or if I end up in a corner / have nowhere to move away while recharging stamina, especially since the enemies get up much faster with "faster enemies". I think it is ok like this, so you still have to use the normal strategy of moving away as you recharge stamina, but have a little extra ability if needed. I guess I could increase the window just a little bit tho.

There's also the issue of charged attacks not taking priority over regular enemy attacks (at least not at the beginning of the animation?). I don't remember how it worked in SoM without the hack exactly but in Evermore, you would still perform the attack after an auto-block if you kept pressing attack which helped make this less annoying. I read through most of the thread again and I agree you should be able to take damage while charging but having the attack itself misfire completely is pretty annoying, maybe it could hit at the same time as you also take a hit?
Yeah, in the old ips patch I added something that made you invulnerable while unleashing a charged attack, I think i'll add it again. It is just so frustrating to have wasted time charging for northing

If manual blocking without auto-block is to be a good alternative I think the timing should be more lenient (like 1-2 more seconds at least) so you can have this attack->block->attack rhythm without moving away as much. And if this is too easy then maybe the block should only cover the front of the player sprite, provided that's actually doable.

4. I played through SD1 recently and I felt the player's attack power was better scaled with the stamina meter there. We discussed this early on and you talked about looking into it, so is there any update on that?
The flow of battle gets a bit better with an ally and with them acting faster now (although with more aggressive enemies the girl is getting killed very easily), but maybe for the future Easy mode or if you don't want to change how blocking works, a more proportional system (or just a faster default charge) would be nice.
Yeah, hitting before 100% is pretty useless as it is.. I dont remember the equation, but at 50% there resulting damage is more like 15% or something.. since the enemies get up faster and all, I guess I could make it more proportional maybe something like 30%. It still cant really be actual % or else it would be too easy to just attack repeatedly and stun-lock enemies to death

5. Don't think this is related to the hack either but I've noticed the archers in the forest can't be hit in succession like previous enemies, you'll always miss if you don't wait until they're not stunned anymore, whereas with other enemies you'll generally hit after a bit of a delay. Maybe something to look into.
Didnt notice this, ill check this out


Sorry for the last 2 posts, some keyboard shortcut I made keeps triggering "back" on my browser for some reason lol
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 02:43:55 am by zhade »

PresidentLeever

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #494 on: March 16, 2018, 10:26:18 am »
Thanks, not a problem! I restarted and have made it to the underground palace, playing with auto-block on as well as manual block and I'm having fun - it's a much smoother experience with your hack and the scroll hack.
In a way I think I was a bit unlucky the last time; the girl did better now and with a full party, how the stamina bar works is a smaller problem. But at the same time, the game is very heavily focused on this kind of low tempo combat and that might get tedious. Hopefully it balances out well with spells and weapon levels.

Gonna test out spellcasting with hotkeys and get a few more dungeons into it, see if I have anything new to say about it.

Edit:
Beat the gigas. Would it be possible to put Neko at the gaia's navel entrance after entering the underground palace? It's a bit of a trek back to his shop if you need to resupply here.

Hotkey casting has worked pretty well, although I'm finding it annoying that it gets interrupted when the boy is hit by something. Menu casting is safer in narrow areas or against bosses. Also, how long should it take to get cure water to level 2, and does it need to actually heal HP to gain exp? I used it like 30 times to check but it didn't level up.

There might be a bug where when you reload, hotkeys are removed. But it could be because I've also used savestates.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 07:44:55 pm by PresidentLeever »
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zhade

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #495 on: March 22, 2018, 07:49:48 am »
Beat the gigas. Would it be possible to put Neko at the gaia's navel entrance after entering the underground palace? It's a bit of a trek back to his shop if you need to resupply here.
Isn't he there at this point ? like in the cave entrace to the right that leads to the shortcut to watts ?

Hotkey casting has worked pretty well, although I'm finding it annoying that it gets interrupted when the boy is hit by something. Menu casting is safer in narrow areas or against bosses. Also, how long should it take to get cure water to level 2, and does it need to actually heal HP to gain exp? I used it like 30 times to check but it didn't level up.
You can view your current exp/progression towards the next level in the "level" menu by pressing R. Note that there is a maximum level that goes up when you touch a new mana seed so when fighting gigas for example, the maximum level of undine is 1. It doesnt matter if the spell has any real effect, like you can cast remedy without having any status effect or cure while already at full HP. You gain more spell exp in "combat maps" tho, which I learned just a little while ago, so instead of casting cure in repetition in a INN, try going just outside the village or any map in which weapons are out and you will get twice as much exp.

There might be a bug where when you reload, hotkeys are removed. But it could be because I've also used savestates.
Hotkeys are not yet saved when using the normal game save, it will in the future tho, i've disassembled the saving code and found that there is actually lots of space for more data to be saved so it should not be a problem. Im just waiting to make sure I dont have some other data that I would like saved or else you possibly wouldnt be able to load your game from a previous version

PresidentLeever

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #496 on: March 22, 2018, 10:08:41 am »
1. He wasn't for me and I moved past there twice. Could be the order of applying the hacks maybe? Guess I could upload the rom and savestate if you want.

2. Thanks, didn't know that about the combat maps. I guess what happened was that I got a "Undine reached level 1" message around this point and thought it meant I could level up the spells or misread it as level 2 as I was doing something else when it happened. What do you think about invincibility time for the boy while picking a spell though?

3. I see, thanks!
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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #497 on: April 15, 2018, 06:47:40 pm »
Isn't it time this hack had a page?

lexluthermiester

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #498 on: April 15, 2018, 07:07:44 pm »
Isn't it time this hack had a page?
Agreed. This utility is stable and high quality enough to justify a entry in the utility section of RHDN.
@Zhade Give it some thought.

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #499 on: April 18, 2018, 12:41:34 am »
First heres V0.14 : Download V0.14

Im actually almost finished with this mod, only need to fix some bugs and do some polishing.. then i'll have something that I find satisfying enough to call it a V1.0
I still have some ideas of stuff that could be improved so I will most likely add more stuff later...

I have a tendency to forget to keep info up to date (like you can see with the first post of this thread that I used to update some years ago..) so I guess Ill make a page on RHDN once I have done all I want to do for V1.0. That way ill write some readme file and a nice description at the same time and then if I update it later on there should not too much that changed so the description of each option visible when using the patcher would do.
I want to wait till its ready also because it will be a kind of big moment for me since I worked on this for so long to finally post the finished thing on a page on RHDN lol  :laugh: