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Which control scheme would you prefer for the weak/strong attacks

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Author Topic: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack  (Read 132782 times)

zhade

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #420 on: April 20, 2017, 07:17:13 am »
Heres a new version:

The patching utility now has what I came to call a 'Chain patching' tool, it basically allows adding any (.ips) patch and apply them (as well as the .zps patch) to your liking, all in one place.
- The added patches (as well as the zps) are put in a list, when clicking 'Apply' the patches in the list are applied one after the other from top to bottom
- Each time a ips file is added, the user is asked if the patch 'normally' requires an headered rom, if the user chooses yes, the ips patch will shift everything down 0x200 bytes so it patches properly on a non-headered rom.
- Patches have an upcase '(H)' if they require a header, lower  '(h)' otherwise

I tested using a clean rom with 'proper' CRC32 (all lights green), adding Fusoya's VWF and it worked perfectly  :)
Heres what the "Patch Chain" looked like:

  (H) SoM_VWF
  [ZPS]

Basically, you just have to put the VWF on top so it applies first and not forget to specify that it requires a header (H).
For the 9 item, using what lexluthermiester said, im pretty sure this would work:

  (H) SoM_VWF
  (h) 9Item
  [ZPS]



As for the new Gameplay Improvement content:

ACT_Defaults ( Implemented / Need Testing )
   Party Members position on the ACT grid is set so they are offensive (instead of mostly avoiding combat) by default
   
   TODO:
   -  Allow Default position to be customized

No_Exp_When_Killing_Allies ( Implemented / Need Testing )
   (Bugfix)
   
   - (Bug): When casting an attack spell on an enemy who has 'wall' it gets reflected towards a party member, If the spell ends up killing him, an insane amount of exp is awarded.
   
   - (Fix): Killing friends don't give any reward, preventing easy fast-leveling exploit (and teaching better morals to the kids..)


It's not much, but the new patching utility stuff wouldn't work with the last patch



------------------------
Edit:

Good thing I was too lazy last time to upload the new version and post the link.. I missed some quite stupid bugs ::)
Download V.07
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 12:39:40 am by zhade »

PerryR

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #421 on: April 24, 2017, 05:41:39 pm »
Glad to see you are back at modding the game.

If bugs with the new quick cast magic system are fixed this time we might give it a new try  ;)

As a little reminder in what you maybe want to take a look:

"While playing together with two friends we encountered some serious bugs which stoped us from playing the mod.
The magic system doesnt work for us. I think it has something to do when playing with three human players.

First you can now target dead characters with all spells. Bug?

Damage spells can be cast on allies! very annoying in fights.

Quick cast magic only works for player 1.  If player 3 binds heal spell, player 1 can quick cast that spell for him.

At some point in the game (around lvl 17) all the spells always hit the boy, no mather who was selected. We dont know how this happend, but from there on game was unplayable."
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 05:50:01 pm by PerryR »

zhade

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #422 on: April 25, 2017, 06:15:07 am »
"While playing together with two friends we encountered some serious bugs which stoped us from playing the mod.
The magic system doesnt work for us. I think it has something to do when playing with three human players.

First you can now target dead characters with all spells. Bug?

Damage spells can be cast on allies! very annoying in fights.

Quick cast magic only works for player 1.  If player 3 binds heal spell, player 1 can quick cast that spell for him.

At some point in the game (around lvl 17) all the spells always hit the boy, no matter who was selected. We don't know how this happend, but from there on game was unplayable."

I'll rewrite that part from scratch so it shouldn't have the old bugs. It is the first bit of asm I ever wrote so there might be some stuff I didn't back then+ the code is a mess and horrible to look at.
I'll make sure to do it properly this time and also remember to test with 3 human players.

Dead Characters had to be targetable in the case you wanted to cast Revify


I'll also try to use the spell's Icon Gfx (maybe even animated) and modify targetting so the spell have their usual target possibilties and fix other issues :

First: Instead of each player having a set of hotkeys, each character (except Randi) will have their set of hotkeys


- Press R to enter targeting mode
  * The Cursor is shown above the player's character
  * The Cursor shows the face of the last used Caster

- Use Up / Down to toggle Caster between Purim and Popoie if available ( Characters are only available if controlled by the player or AI, and not dead, stones etc..)
- Select one of the 3 Hotkey set Using Left/Right ( Defaults to the 'middle' set each time a Caster is selected)
  * The Cursor is above player's head, shifted a bit to the left/right if the left/right hotkey set is selected
  ( maybe the cursor image could alternate each of the hotkey set's spell icons and the caster's face )

- Select the spell by pressing its hotkey
  * The Cursor Alternate between the character's face icon and the spell's icon
  * The Cursor is placed on the first valid target if any

- Select the target using the D-Pad ( With Up/Down to toggle between All/Single

- Press B to Cast the spell, Y To go back to spell selection step


That way you could check which spell is bound to which button when loading and also make sure that you don't end up casting the wrong spell
It could also cancel if you don't have enough mana for a spell by showing the Spell Icon 'Greyed' over your character's head for a short time and make an 'error' sound
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 09:18:19 am by zhade »

PerryR

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #423 on: April 25, 2017, 12:53:15 pm »
Seems like a good system for quick cast. Really looking foward to the mod  :thumbsup:

lexluthermiester

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #424 on: April 26, 2017, 04:06:25 am »
I'll also try to use the spell's Icon Gfx (maybe even animated) and modify targetting so the spell have their usual target possibilties and fix other issues :

First: Instead of each player having a set of hotkeys, each character (except Randi) will have their set of hotkeys


- Press R to enter targeting mode
  * The Cursor is shown above the player's character
  * The Cursor shows the face of the last used Caster

- Use Up / Down to toggle Caster between Purim and Popoie if available ( Characters are only available if controlled by the player or AI, and not dead, stones etc..)
- Select one of the 3 Hotkey set Using Left/Right ( Defaults to the 'middle' set each time a Caster is selected)
  * The Cursor is above player's head, shifted a bit to the left/right if the left/right hotkey set is selected
  ( maybe the cursor image could alternate each of the hotkey set's spell icons and the caster's face )

- Select the spell by pressing its hotkey
  * The Cursor Alternate between the character's face icon and the spell's icon
  * The Cursor is placed on the first valid target if any

- Select the target using the D-Pad ( With Up/Down to toggle between All/Single

- Press B to Cast the spell, Y To go back to spell selection step


That way you could check which spell is bound to which button when loading and also make sure that you don't end up casting the wrong spell
It could also cancel if you don't have enough mana for a spell by showing the Spell Icon 'Greyed' over your character's head for a short time and make an 'error' sound
Not sure I'm a fan of this idea based on the way it's described. The ring menu/Magic selection is one of the things I feel Square nailed perfectly. But hell I'll give it a try, who knows. It might work better, right?
 
BTW, for those wondering, version 0.07 still works with VWF and 9item patches using the method described earlier[April 18th].

Given the popularity of the VWF and 9item, have you thought about reaching out to FuSoYa and Masterflow and seeing if they'd mind you including them with your utility as selectable options? Fairly certain they'd be cool with it as long as they were given their proper credit/recognition. Doesn't hurt to ask.

jeremythille

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #425 on: April 28, 2017, 12:22:51 pm »
Man, this hack is (almost) awesome! I tried it as soon as I discovered it.

The characters who are not being blocked behind every tree and stone anymore is an absolute relief.
The extended bow range is almost cheat and makes me grin :)
Seeing the magic gauges at the bottom of the screen is very useful.
The increased difficulty makes a better challenge overall.

Then, I got Undine. And all of the pleasure was lost.
First, you can cast offensive spell to your allies. Not only this, but any magic targets your allies by default, making it very easy to accidentally kill them.
Second, the game does not pause anymore when choosing the spell target. Since you really don't want to hurt your allies, you take your time to be sure to target a foe. Meanwhile, the foe attacks and hurts.
Third, introducing a cooldown is somewhat frustrating. Magic bashing was part of the pleasure of this game. Besides, most bosses are completely insensitive to weapons (like, weapons just go through them like ghosts) so, magic is the only way to beat them.

Then, I got Gnome, and things went haywire.
Even when I target an enemy, the game is bugged and one of my allies gets hit by the spell, making magic not only useless but deadly. So I stopped playing.

Do you reckon a new version will be released soon, fixing the magic's bugs?

Other than that, great job, congratulations :) And thank you very much

Atrushan

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #426 on: May 01, 2017, 12:12:42 pm »
Has he even released the magic system yet? I know he had it on the old patches but now he's redoing everything and I haven't seen him actually say a new version was released with the magic system.

morphlogic

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #427 on: May 16, 2017, 03:13:32 am »
Hi zhade and all,

First of all, many thanks for your work on this project. Not only are we seeing numerous significant improvements to the game, but also a means by which to pick and choose which such improvements to apply. Excellent job!

I've recently begun playing through V0.07, and while the good far outweighs the negative (this game is challenging again!), I wanted to share with you my findings thus far.

Manual_Block seems to invite a hardlock scenario if used frequently. This can be triggered by starting a new game, making your way to the first rabite, then blocking with L repeatedly. The results I've found to vary from a black screen, to a garbled image, to a frozen image, but in all cases the game audio continues while input seems to no longer be processed.

This issue I've reproduced on SD2SNES and zSNES V1.51, with and without the FuSoYa VFW patch applied per your instructions using the Chain Patching tool. However, I've tried persistently to reproduce the issue on a ROM patched with V0.05 and was unable to do so. Re-applying V0.07 without Manual_Block and No_Automatic_Blocking has presented no similar issues.

CPUs_Dont_Block_Screen has one quirky (but useful) aspect - if a CPU character is unconscious, I can (ab)use this to flee from a battle I ordinarily might have to fight by walking away with the player character. I really don't mind this, and in fact appreciate it as a way to get out of annoying enemy encounters, but wanted to be thorough in case this was not your intention.

Overall, I am loving this hack. Will continue working my way through V0.07. Can't tell you how enjoyable it is to be able to appreciate this game with renewed difficulty and some of its old nuisances removed.

Please let me know if I can help by providing any additional details.

morphlogic

lexluthermiester

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #428 on: May 16, 2017, 03:57:56 pm »
Has he even released the magic system yet? I know he had it on the old patches but now he's redoing everything and I haven't seen him actually say a new version was released with the magic system.
Not yet. Based on previous posts, it seems to be giving zhade a few issues which are taking time to figure out.

zhade

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #429 on: May 20, 2017, 02:46:47 pm »
Yeah, still no spell binding in the new version.. ive been trying to find a way to have the spell icons appear it seems it would be harder than I first thought.. but anyway, im working on other stuff right now, a som project in colaboration with manaRedux http://manaredux.blogspot.ca/ and also ive been trying to find an interesting way to have equipments modify stats.. heres my current idea:

instead of just increasing some stats by a certain amount like say.. attack + 10 or magic def + 20, I thought it would be more interesting to modify stats using % so that the stat boost doesnt become insignificant later. But then, the way SoM calculates damage/defense etc includes hit% and agility.. the boy cant use magic so the magic attack stat is useless to him (at least I think ?) but anyway.. I thought it would be better to use "new" stats instead that affect the end result directly:

Each of these new stats would act as %, start at 100% and could (in theory) range between 0-200
Each piece of equipment would increase and decrease many different stats instead of raising the defense.

DMG   -   DAMAGE      - Physical Damage Infliction             
ENDU   -   ENDURANCE   - Physical Damage Endurance             
AURA   -   AURA      - Magic Defense / Elemental DMG Ratio   
WILL   -   WILLPOWER   - Magic Power / Elemental DMG           
SPD      -   SPEED      - Power% Recharge Rate             
PREC   -   PRECISION   - Damage Difference Between Min and Max

Every time the character deals physical damage, the resulting damage is multiplied by DMG%
Every time the character is dealt physical damage, the resulting damage is divided by ENDU%
Every time the character is dealt magic damage, the resulting damage is divided by AURA%
Every time the character is deals magic damage, the resulting damage is multiplied by WILLPOWER%

The speed at which the power% goes from 0% to 100% is multiplied by SPEED%
   
each weapon strike can deal elemental damage as well as physical damage, elemental damage is not affected by enemy defense
the ratio of physical vs elemental damage is determined by the aura stat, ie: at AURA = 100 or lower, all damage is physical
if AURA = 150, half of the damage is elemental. Elemental damage is multiplied by WILLPOWER the same way physical damage is multiplied by DAMAGE

PRECISION is applied at the very end to the result of Physical + Elemental Damage
it is multiplied by a random number between (PRECISION/4) and 100%
so for example, at the default value (PRECISION = 100), if the calculated damage dealt is 200 the damage would end up being between 150 and 200


Heres some example of what equipments could modify:

Overalls : +10 ENDU, +10 AURA, -10 SPD, -10 PREC     - boosts def and m.def, but less
Wristband: +10 PREC, +25 DMG, -30 WILL                     - increases physical damage and precision, reduces magic power/elemental damage
Bandanna: -20 AURA, +25 SPD, -50 PREC                      - reduces attack recharge time at the expanse of precision

the late game equipments probably would have higher numbers to both the boosts and handicaps, so youll want them if you want to boost a specific stat as much as possible but early equipements might do fine too until the end if you want something more balanced..

lexluthermiester

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #430 on: May 20, 2017, 06:45:40 pm »
Yeah, still no spell binding in the new version.. ive been trying to find a way to have the spell icons appear it seems it would be harder than I first thought.. but anyway, im working on other stuff right now, a som project in colaboration with manaRedux http://manaredux.blogspot.ca/ and also ive been trying to find an interesting way to have equipments modify stats
Damn! You HAVE been busy. LOL! That project looks excellent! Is this going to be applied to complement the VFW hack or more a replacement?

BobNewbie

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #431 on: May 24, 2017, 05:19:08 pm »
Hey, zhade. Thanks for all your hard work on Secret of Mana!

I'm really interested in what you're doing with manaRedux. I'm guessing it's a new translation for the game. As the story goes, Ted Woolsey's English translation of Final Fantasy VI had to be halved twice to make it fit. Plus, it was allegedly stated that some of SoM's story was lost in translation, but, since no one's made a new translation for the game in 20+ years, few know for sure.

I have a question. I know NES games are frequently moved to new mappers for better hacking capabilities. Can something like that be done to an SNES game like SoM to make it accommodate a larger script?

lexluthermiester

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #432 on: May 26, 2017, 08:33:07 pm »
I have a question. I know NES games are frequently moved to new mappers for better hacking capabilities. Can something like that be done to an SNES game like SoM to make it accommodate a larger script?
The mapper for the 8bit Nintendo system existed because of the limitations of memory addressing within the system itself. The mappers got around that limitation by mapping addresses into chucks that could be managed individually, thus allowing more storage than the system could technically handle on it's own.

With the 16bit Nintendo system, there was a lot more address space and the mappers were no longer needed. If you needed more space you simply used a larger rom chip or set of chips. In the case of rom hacks/mods, if you need more space for added content/features, you just expand the rom.

BobNewbie

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #433 on: May 28, 2017, 11:44:34 am »
Thank you, Lex. That's really good info. :beer:

zhade's post got me to read through manaRedux's blog, and it's been really nostalgic learning about a game that really fascinated me all those years ago. (I wasn't even a teenager when the SNES came out.) I knew about Secret of Mana's transition from CD-ROM add-on to cartridge, but I never realized how rushed/splintered the game's development was. At the end of the day, it's not just the translation that left stuff out -- The game's "incomplete" state means that story content never made it into the final game in the first place!

lexluthermiester

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #434 on: May 28, 2017, 07:15:33 pm »
Thank you, Lex. That's really good info. :beer:

zhade's post got me to read through manaRedux's blog, and it's been really nostalgic learning about a game that really fascinated me all those years ago. (I wasn't even a teenager when the SNES came out.) I knew about Secret of Mana's transition from CD-ROM add-on to cartridge, but I never realized how rushed/splintered the game's development was. At the end of the day, it's not just the translation that left stuff out -- The game's "incomplete" state means that story content never made it into the final game in the first place!
You're welcome. Yeah if they add a ton of that content back in it is going to be bad ass!

reconstructingmana

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #435 on: June 14, 2017, 01:50:24 am »
You're welcome. Yeah if they add a ton of that content back in it is going to be bad ass!

There's no game content to add back in; no one really knows what's missing.  There are some translation woes, but that's a different story. 

Vanya

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #436 on: June 15, 2017, 06:39:19 am »
Indeed. In order to restore cut content we would need an actual prototype to get that content from. Unfortunately none has ever been found. If any even still exist.
Not to mention that we don't even know how much of that content was even implemented. Cut content could just mean unused concepts that were never actually created.

BobNewbie

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #437 on: June 25, 2017, 05:58:45 pm »
It's nice to see this topic hasn't been abandoned. I hope that zhade has some news to share soon.

It's true, though; Very little is known about SoM's cut content, especially compared to what the game's design hints at. Like Vanya said, there aren't really any interviews, betas, or development documents to go on either. Stuff like extra cannon travel points only implies a longer progression process for the player. Basically, an elaborate hack would have to be fan-reimagined. If it's executed really well, I believe fans will take to it, but we don't even know what the goals are for this hack. Either way, I'm rooting for zhade and manaredux! The patches we've seen so far have been really promising!

zhade

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #438 on: August 09, 2017, 09:43:45 am »
I finally managed to have the spell icons appear and play their animation properly when in "spell targeting mode", it has been way more difficult than I first thought.. Im still far from finished with the whole "casting spell from outside the ring menu" thing, but the rest doesnt include anything new so im certain I'll be able to have it all work as I wanted.

Heres how it will look and how the controls would work:
  First, instead of binding spells to A,B,X,Y you will bind them to D-Pad positions: Up,Down,Left,Right or Up-left, Up-right, down-left, down-right, for a total of 8 different hotkey
  Also, the hotkeys will be assigned to the spellcaster instead of the player, so all players will use the same shortcuts

R : enter/exit spell-targeting mode

when spell-targeting(spell selection):
  The icon of the currently selected spell will appear over the character
  The small face icon of the currently selected caster will appear around the spell icon, relative to the D-Pad position
    So, for example, if you hold left-down the face icon will appear to the bottom left of the spell icon

  Pressing Y will change the current caster to Purim
  Pressing X will change the current caster to Popoie
  Pressing B will select the current spell and put you in "target selection" mode, like it normally does when casting from the menu


anyway, ill make a small video once I have more of it done, kinda sounds more complicated in text hehe.

2tack

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #439 on: August 15, 2017, 04:51:07 pm »
I registered just to comment how excited I am about this hack. Hope to see that video soon!