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Poll

Which control scheme would you prefer for the weak/strong attacks

B for Weak, forward + B for strong
0 (0%)
B for Weak, A for strong (running only available in towns)
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Forward B for weak, B for strong
0 (0%)
B for weak, Y for strong (X used for own menu and X again to change to other characters menu)
0 (0%)
other (please post your suggestion)
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Total Members Voted: 0

Author Topic: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack  (Read 80081 times)

PresidentLeever

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2015, 07:39:45 am »
Sounds great and that's a nice find regarding agility. I knew it got faster but not why exactly. So is that something you can take advantage of with some specific equipment or spell?

Gonna try 0.2 asap.
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justin3009

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2015, 10:24:32 am »
Huh, that's really cool actually.  I didn't know they had that in-game.

As for the HP/MP thing.  I don't think there's much of a work around to go except custom graphics.  iirc, I THINK the numbers are decompressed in ROM along with the entireity of the bars when filling up.  Could probably just slap HP/MP into there as custom tiles.  Even still, doesn't leave much room..  I'm still trying to figure out a nice layout for HP/Mp on the PC's.  I don't think dropping the max HP would be a good idea especially for a game where you NEED to know at all times.  Only thing I can think of is shifting the graphics around like Seiken Densetsu 3's, but even then there's not much room still without taking up a lot of screen space.  Uch
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SageOwl

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2015, 11:58:30 am »
Just thought of something: making damage under a certain percentage endurable or not trigger the hit flip back and look forward animation. Would that be possible? It would definitely make it so you don't get stuck in an animation loop while getting beat in a corner. You can just have it not interrupt movement or anything like that, just keep on moving. I always thought it was silly when you're high leveled with some of the best gear and a monster hits you for 10-25 and you flip back like it was some devastating hit.

PresidentLeever

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2015, 12:00:34 pm »
So I don't know if it's the patch or my ROM (headerless US ROM) but the two attack types do the exact same amount of damage for me. Also the intro was a bit screwed up showing Chrono walking around where he should'nt have been on screen IIRC.

Another suggestion I have, and this is pretty minor but it would be cool if when you had a full stock of candy for example, chests stop giving you that item. Something to consider if it's easy to add.

I think I agree with the above by SageOwl as well, would have to play more.

Edit: Tried it with a different ROM and the damage is the same though the intro works like it should.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2015, 01:10:49 pm by PresidentLeever »
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zhade

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2015, 09:21:10 pm »
I dont think anything raise/reduce agility, the speed-up spell raises evade/hit% directly (which are normally calculated form the agility).

SageOwl:
normally you get thrown in the air after a big hit, I dont know it is calculated tho, its most likely depedent on the power of the attack compared to defense, but maybe it doesnt take the equipement into account or is based on the level instead or maybe some attacks have an added knockback chance ? The mechanics in this game are a bit counter-intuitive for example to make the blocking work I had to change both the evade% and the defense. The animation is already twice as fast so there is less chance to get stuck but If I remove normal dodging for human players this could be an issue. It would make more sense to have it depend on the damage compared to the maxHp so that you only get knocked back if the attack is about 1/4 or 1/3 of your maxHP. Btw, did they keep the barrel item in the mobile version lol, who uses those really ?

PresidentLeever:
You are right, I messed up the attacks damage when doing the dodging... Ill try to fix ths today, I think I know what went wrong
For the item drops: The treasure chest are dependent on enemies, IIRC each enemy have a maximum of 2 different drops a normal drop and a rare drop. I could make it so the treasure chest doesnt appear if you are full of the item inside but personally I tend to use a candy if im full before opening the chest because it is the most common drop (at least in the first part of the game). Making the chest give you another item instead would make it a bit too easy to get the better healing items as well as cup of whises and seeds. maybe it could give you only worse items like if it would give you a choco bar but you are full it would give a candy instead ? That way if you know a certain enemy usually gives a choco bar you could use one before opening the chest and get your choco back but if you open it while full of choco but missing candies it would give a candy instead. It could be tricky to make this compatible with the 9items patch tho.
For the intro, you most likely pressed R while the intro was running, that is a know issue, it has something to do with the targeting.

justin3009:
yeah I agree that it would be best to be able to see maxHp and MP at all time, even with different colors it would hard to know if you should give a character a candy or a choco bar if his hp has changed color. heres the prettiest arangement I could come up with, compared to the original, its not in scale tho (not made of 8x8 blocks), I think it would only need 1 more block vertically with some gfx modifications

PresidentLeever

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2015, 06:55:44 am »
Looks great and I like the item drop idea. :)
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zhade

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2015, 09:09:21 am »
Ive put up a new version again ! heres the list of changes:
- Fixed the alternate attack damage bug
- Everything now works for all 3 players, spells/blocking/strong and weak attacks
- It is now possible to cast from the menu without binding, you still have to pick your target during the action but any A/B/X/Y will cast the selected spell.
- Changed controls for the magic-targeting mode to toggle instead of having to hold R
- Fixed the intro bug where Randi could appear if you pressed R


EDIT:
I found something againg that I didnt know:
Did you know that holding L or R while charging locks your character so that he always face the same direction? Its weird that they chose to make this only work when charging.

Also there is no need to show the mp at all time since you can now cast analyzer on yourself  ::)
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 07:30:01 pm by zhade »

PresidentLeever

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2015, 12:18:34 pm »
Nice, but I don't see a donate button anywhere in your posts?

Is the analyzer infinite in duration?
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Chickenlump

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2015, 04:01:58 pm »
I found something againg that I didnt know:
Did you know that holding L or R while charging locks your character so that he always face the same direction? Its weird that they chose to make this only work when charging.
The thrust attack

I used to do this often, making the characters 'moonwalk' backwards. It was hilarious at the time.

zhade

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2015, 09:28:52 pm »
PresidentLeever:
No the analyzer isn't infinite lol, I was just being silly.

I only accept cookie donations :cookie:
I don't even have a credit card so I don't think I could make a paypal account.

EDIT:
Another version again heres the list of changes:
- AI controlled characters don't get stuck anymore ! Actually they do.. but they dont block the screen movement and they will get teleported to the player if they go off-screen. Heres a video showing this feature: Video
- Fixed a bug where you could block before finishing an attack, keeping your power% at 100
- Human controlled characters can now only dodge manually
- Fixed some other issues with dodging, you can not dodge anymore when moogled/petrified/small/barreled/ghost but can when poisoned/confused/tangled.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2015, 04:50:52 am by zhade »

PresidentLeever

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2015, 10:09:08 am »
Humble, talented, and fast! I started playing 0.3 with my brother yesterday and we were enjoying it, but maybe we'll restart with 0.4.

Having tried 0.4 for a bit now I'm not sure I like having just manual blocking because the short time window and the fact that enemy attacks take priority over charged attacks (which you can't manually block during) makes the game much harder.

Another minor thing: Can you make charging carry over between different screens if you hold down the button?

Edit:
Are the tiger's melee attacks and the lizard before undine's swallow attack supposed to be dodgeable?
« Last Edit: July 20, 2015, 02:41:22 pm by PresidentLeever »
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SageOwl

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2015, 03:42:01 pm »
PresidentLeever:
No the analyzer isn't infinite lol, I was just being silly.

I only accept cookie donations :cookie:
I don't even have a credit card so I don't think I could make a paypal account.

EDIT:
Another version again heres the list of changes:
- AI controlled characters don't get stuck anymore ! Actually they do.. but they dont block the screen movement and they will get teleported to the player if they go off-screen. Heres a video showing this feature: Video
- Fixed a bug where you could block before finishing an attack, keeping your power% at 100
- Human controlled characters can now only dodge manually
- Fixed some other issues with dodging, you can not dodge anymore when moogled/petrified/small/barreled/ghost but can when poisoned/confused/tangled.
You can make a PayPal account, but they limit what you can do unless you attach a card/bank account to it. I think you can still accept "gift" donations through it with nothing attached, but do not quote me on that.

They did keep the barrel item and I never used it up until I started playing the mobile version of the game. It isn't bad and is about as close to running from battle as this game gets... aside from just manually walking around them. I think it is pointless since I kill everything I see to maintain my leveling progress.

zhade

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2015, 12:24:15 am »
Having tried 0.4 for a bit now I'm not sure I like having just manual blocking because the short time window and the fact that enemy attacks take priority over charged attacks (which you can't manually block during) makes the game much harder.

Another minor thing: Can you make charging carry over between different screens if you hold down the button?

Edit:
Are the tiger's melee attacks and the lizard before undine's swallow attack supposed to be dodgeable?

I still havent tested the manual blocking very much, some attacks seem very hard to dodge and others are very easy (chobin hood arrows). All attacks that are normally dodgable are manually dodgable, I noticed the mantis ant blade throwing attack is dodgable. Ill have to test a bit more because some attacks might be too easy to dodge (like the tongue swallow thing) and others just too hard so the game balance could be broken.
As for the keeping charge between screens, I think it could be too good like for example you could charge up you attack to full before a boss fight. The faster-charging feature will help make it less of a problem, since you will be able to charge faster it wont be as fustrating when a cpu kills the last enemy in the room before you have time to unleash your level 8 attack.

oh by the way, your saves will work fine if you don't want to start over.

ChemaROMhacking

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2015, 12:52:06 am »
By stripping off auto dodges from players, it seems you shaked up the damage formula
Now physical attacks from enemies ignore any defense should it hit a player ( at least P1)

magictrufflez

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2015, 01:29:36 am »

SageOwl:
normally you get thrown in the air after a big hit, I dont know it is calculated tho, its most likely depedent on the power of the attack compared to defense, but maybe it doesnt take the equipement into account or is based on the level instead or maybe some attacks have an added knockback chance ? The mechanics in this game are a bit counter-intuitive for example to make the blocking work I had to change both the evade% and the defense. The animation is already twice as fast so there is less chance to get stuck but If I remove normal dodging for human players this could be an issue. It would make more sense to have it depend on the damage compared to the maxHp so that you only get knocked back if the attack is about 1/4 or 1/3 of your maxHP. Btw, did they keep the barrel item in the mobile version lol, who uses those really ?


I think I can pretty well confirm from my experience with the hardtype hack that the animations are based on the damage of the hit as a percentage of your max HP.  Since everything was doing the massive damage animation to me for awhile, after my max HP hit a certain level, the same amount of damage was causing the regular hit animation.

I'm not sure of the exact mechanics/formulas, but it seemed to me that anything up to 30ish% of your max HP in damage triggers the regular hit animation, while anything abve triggers the massive damage animation.  I'm not sure how much this mechanic should change though, since getting hit is still getting hit.  Maybe using the current block animation for damage up to 10% of max HP and 10-30ish% be the regular hit animation?

ChemaROMhacking

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2015, 03:20:17 am »
For some reason, an "invisible block" is pressent on both, the v0.3 and the v0.4 that even enemies can't pass through




I don't know if wether a solid object is created or the collision detection gets screwed up on that specific spot

I used save states without changing map; one would assert that the map is loaded when you enter a door thus this is a collission detection issue, but considering the weird surprises this game has shown up, It wouldn't surprise me if the map is constantly being "recreated"

zhade

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2015, 04:57:18 am »
Thx for the bug report ChemaRomHacking, I just tested it for myself and you are right about the invisible block, I really dont know what could cause this tho  :huh:. I also have noticed a missing tile in one of kippo village houses, I thought it might also be in the normal game but i just tried with a clean rom and the tile is there so I guess I messed up the the maps data or the map generation algorithm somehow.
As for the damage not taking defense into account the game must take evasion into account when calculating the damage, I basically just changed the evasion calculation routine so that if it is a player 0 is loaded instead of the evasion, I could find a better (proper) way to do this that wont change the evasion so that the damage is calculated normally.

EDIT:
Ok, I got the weird maps bug fixed, it was an error in my code (im relieved, I thought it was something worse), I wonder why It didnt mess things up even more lol It had the potential to screw up a LOT of RAM values.. Anyway, it forced me to rewrite some stuff more properly and ended up fixing some bugs, now the faces are placed correctly in the status bar even when having less than 3 characters. Fixed some targeting issues when characters leave the party. Also the faces dont appear in the center of the screen anymore when a character joins the party or when the boy picks up the sword at the start of the game. The faces also flashe when magic-recharging even when in spell targeting-mode.
I also fixed the damage to players bug. It might still be possible to dodge enemy attacks witouth manually dodging, the game has 2 conditions on when to dodge, one that involves the evasion of the victim compared to the hit rate of the attacker and another one when the damage would be 0 or lower. I made it so when an attack is 0 or lower it hits 1 instead of dodging (for human players), I didnt change the other condition yet but for some reason it seems it never happens for playable characters, or maybe im just very unlucky.

updated the first post with version 0.5
« Last Edit: July 21, 2015, 12:52:30 pm by zhade »

SageOwl

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2015, 11:33:18 pm »
Just tried the new version on my Super Everdrive and for whatever reason I cannot input anything at the main menu, as in nothing I press on the controller does anything.
It isn't my hardware either because numerous other games, including your other hack, works fine. I can try the other versions and see if it is just the most recent one.

ChemaROMhacking

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2015, 12:15:01 am »
@SageOwl
I have had a similar, if not the exact, problem and it is related to the magic binding

Try with the start button, but don't be surprised if one of the casters go crazy on the boy just after loading the save file

zhade

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2015, 03:54:58 am »
Damn.. I would like it to work on a real snes.. but I dont have a way to test it. I tried on many versions of bsnes and it works fine, on higans I get some controls issues but not in the menu and I think its mostly a problem with the emulator.

Since verson 0.3 there is a bit of code that nulifies all controls when you cast a spell to prevent you from doing the normal controls behaviour like for example if you press B while in target-mode to cast a spell it nulifes all controls until you release B so that you wont attack. In previous versions it did so only when you held R, It might be related to that somehow. I also initialize all the RAM I use to 00 when the game gets in the menu, the game (or maybe the emulator) initialize everything to 55 so I make a check to see if the first byte is 55 and if it is it puts everything to 00, maybe it isnt initialized to 55 on the real hardware. If you have a way to make cheatcodes on the super everdrive you could go look at the RAM adresses between 7ED700 and 7ED800 when in the menu, it should all be 00 or FF, if it isnt the problem is there.

Since I have no way to test this I most likely wont be able to fix it unless I find and emulator that replicates the behaviour.