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Author Topic: The Legend of Zelda - relocalized (help needed)  (Read 16842 times)

Jeville

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - relocalized (help needed)
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2015, 01:12:47 pm »
Link is paler under the Treasures list for the paper he's holding that shares his skin palette.

If you want to toy with his labyrinth palettes, their locations can be found here. I'm not sure what to make of them either.

I agree with removing secondary level entrances. An utility tool here can fix that easy.

KillerBob

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - relocalized (help needed)
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2015, 01:45:03 pm »
Link is paler under the Treasures list for the paper he's holding that shares his skin palette.
Ah, ok. Didn't think about the reason for it.
If you want to toy with his labyrinth palettes, their locations can be found here. I'm not sure what to make of them either.

I agree with removing secondary level entrances. An utility tool here can fix that easy.
Thanks! :) Will take a look.

August 02, 2015, 01:34:27 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I agree with removing secondary level entrances. An utility tool here can fix that easy.
Which utility did you have in mind? I had a look at the various utilities available but wasn't able to find something that dealt with them. In Zeldatech you could basically do what I already did in hex, which is move their locations. My approach to get rid of them seems to work fine, just wanted to be sure.

As for the different Link palette used in level 3 (1st Quest) and level 2 (2nd Quest), I changed it to test its darker more common palette, and nothing else seemed to be affected in any negative way. So the reason for why they had a different shade of color for Link in those two particular dungeons are a bit of a mystery if it wasn't due to a simple oversight (both versions of Link looks good after all). There's even the Link on the file selection screen which sports a darker shade of brown. So, there's actually three different versions of Link in the game.


Anyway, I think I'll leave all the colors alone. The reasons for the choices made can be many and starting to make graphical changes based on personal opinion makes this something different than a simple "relocalization."
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 01:34:27 pm by KillerBob »

Trax

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - relocalized (help needed)
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2015, 07:41:36 pm »
KillerBob, your approach with the Armos secrets is fine. The code simply does three checks to determine if a secret is revealed. First, it tries to match one of the locations in the table at 10CB2. If a match exists, then with the same index, it checks if the Armos has the same X position in the table at 10CB9. And then, it checks if the Armos has Y position 80 (this is fixed)...

So if you change the X position for that specific screen, and you make sure there's no Armos at the new X position, the conditions never meet, so the secret is effectively cancelled...

Quote
On the 1st Quest, no ghosts comes out of the grave where you get a Heart Container on the 2nd Quest. Similarly on the 2nd quest, no ghosts comes out of the grave where you get the Magical Sword in the 1st Quest. Might confuse a first-time player but is most likely a limitation of the two quest setup.

It's in the nature of the game engine itself. A tile cannot be touch-sensitive to ghosts and pushable at the same time. The columns are the same in both quests, so the tile attributes are also the same...

As for the locked door bug in level 1, the debugger could help pinpoint the exact place in code where the data is being modified. The only problem is, I don't know exactly the location of the data that keeps track of each room's state...

KillerBob

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - relocalized (help needed)
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2015, 12:21:28 pm »
KillerBob, your approach with the Armos secrets is fine. The code simply does three checks to determine if a secret is revealed. First, it tries to match one of the locations in the table at 10CB2. If a match exists, then with the same index, it checks if the Armos has the same X position in the table at 10CB9. And then, it checks if the Armos has Y position 80 (this is fixed)...

So if you change the X position for that specific screen, and you make sure there's no Armos at the new X position, the conditions never meet, so the secret is effectively cancelled...

It's in the nature of the game engine itself. A tile cannot be touch-sensitive to ghosts and pushable at the same time. The columns are the same in both quests, so the tile attributes are also the same...
Thanks a lot for confirming! your help is much appreciated.  :beer:

Another minor oddity present, (which only crazy swordless run players may have noticed) is that the boomerangs lack the cursor sound effect when you select one on the sub-screen if you don't have equipped yourself with a sword yet. Once you get a sword, the sound effect is back.

KingMike

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - relocalized (help needed)
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2015, 11:15:30 am »
Curious: Are you going to do anything about "Destroy the topmost boundary"? It's one of the few exceptions to the Japanese clues being less vague than the English ones. The best guess most people have is that it's talking about where to find the Red Ring...
I thought the line "GO TO THE NEXT ROOM" could've been translated as the NEARBY room instead (となりのへやへ ゆけ). (and that would've been your Red Ring hint)
(because while that hint room is next to it on the map, it is not sequentially accessible)
"My watch says 30 chickens" Google, 2018

KillerBob

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - relocalized (help needed)
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2015, 11:26:24 am »
I thought the line "GO TO THE NEXT ROOM" could've been translated as the NEARBY room instead (となりのへやへ ゆけ). (and that would've been your Red Ring hint)
(because while that hint room is next to it on the map, it is not sequentially accessible)
Yes, that one is also meant to be a hint for the hidden Red Ring room. The hint actually worked in a more literal sense in the leaked prototype where you simply walked through the wall to find the Silver Arrow instead. In the final game they removed the false wall mechanic in dungeons in the 1st Quest. Instead, the "Go to the next room." with false walls was moved to Level 9 2nd Quest.

I think it could have worked as a great introduction to that mechanic if they had kept it, but I guess they were scared to introduce it that late in the game. In the protype "Destroy the topmost boundary." worked as a hint for where to find the compass.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 12:21:21 pm by KillerBob »

contra

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - relocalized (help needed)
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2015, 03:06:46 am »
Zelda, while almost perfect does need a clean up. Good job!

Btw, in the prototype the game would not pause during the "light up" when you used candles in dark rooms. Imo this was better, the pause is just annoying. Maybe something to consider putting back in ?

Also the credits in the proto used most of the real names of the staff instead of pseudonyms. Imo this should be also part of your retranslation if it isnt already. Check https://tcrf.net/Proto:The_Legend_of_Zelda for more info.

KillerBob

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - relocalized (help needed)
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2015, 05:32:46 pm »
Zelda, while almost perfect does need a clean up. Good job!

Btw, in the prototype the game would not pause during the "light up" when you used candles in dark rooms. Imo this was better, the pause is just annoying. Maybe something to consider putting back in ?

Also the credits in the proto used most of the real names of the staff instead of pseudonyms. Imo this should be also part of your retranslation if it isnt already.
Thanks!

I assume the slight pause for the candle was added for a reason though, and the use of pseudonyms in the staff roll is not something I will bring back to its prototype state. Sorry, this is for the most part only a simple text hack with my heart in restoration. That the staff ultimately decided to use their nicknames, I personally don't see any problem with. Back in the day, Miyamoto, Tezuka and Kondo often appeared in japanese gaming magazines with their nicknames Miyahon, TenTen and Konchan. They even had a Zelda Q&A in the Family Computer Magazine where Miyahon and TenTen answered the readers questions. Simpler times...
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 05:39:56 pm by KillerBob »

contra

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - relocalized (help needed)
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2015, 04:26:07 am »
Right, I understand. Many of these localization/revamp hacks comes down to choices made by personal preferences. Just throwing some suggestions out there. :)

KillerBob

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - relocalized (help needed)
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2015, 10:07:48 am »
Just throwing some suggestions out there. :)
I appreciate it.  :thumbsup:

A thing about the money in the game, is that the manuals describe them as Yellow and Blue Rupees, and that a blue one is worth five yellow ones. The in-game treasure listing only says Rupee and 5 Rupees. Would it perhaps make more sense to list the value of the yellow one as well?

It's also interesting that many items goes by slightly different terms in the manual, Clock is Magical Clock, the Boomerang and Arrow are Wooden Boomerang and Arrow for example. The first level sword is just that, and never in the japanese and english manuals is it described as being a wooden sword, despite being described that way on almost every Zelda site I've checked. It could as well be a rusty old blade as far as I know.  :D

Grimoire LD

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - relocalized (help needed)
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2015, 01:12:58 pm »
I appreciate it.  :thumbsup:

A thing about the money in the game, is that the manuals describe them as Yellow and Blue Rupees, and that a blue one is worth five yellow ones. The in-game treasure listing only says Rupee and 5 Rupees. Would it perhaps make more sense to list the value of the yellow one as well?

It's also interesting that many items goes by slightly different terms in the manual, Clock is Magical Clock, the Boomerang and Arrow are Wooden Boomerang and Arrow for example. The first level sword is just that, and never in the japanese and english manuals is it described as being a wooden sword, despite being described that way on almost every Zelda site I've checked. It could as well be a rusty old blade as far as I know.  :D

They may not have called it Wooden at the time (mainly because they likely assumed people would also assume it was wooden) but later games in the series used this same motif and Hyrule Warriors does call that legacy weapon "8-Bit Wooden Sword" so it is a wooden sword.

KillerBob

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - relocalized (help needed)
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2015, 03:24:46 pm »
They may not have called it Wooden at the time (mainly because they likely assumed people would also assume it was wooden) but later games in the series used this same motif and Hyrule Warriors does call that legacy weapon "8-Bit Wooden Sword" so it is a wooden sword.
It may indeed have been their intention all along but what Nintendo nowadays and a spin-off game released 28 years later decide to call it is irrelevant. In the original The Legend of Zelda it was and is up to each player to decide what kind of sword it is. With the limited graphics and the artwork provided, it's still up to interpretation what the developers had in mind.

Original manual artwork:


It's not like you're checking out the manual and immediately thinking that sword is wooden based on its artwork, it's not as clear-cut as the artwork for the raft and ladder. I think the case is more a desire to have a connection between games, despite how minor that connection may be. A similar thing happened with the original small shield, which in the 2003 re-release manual suddenly became a wooden shield. With Nintendo's track record with the Zelda series, I guess future re-releases will explain that the tree where you find level 1, is the Great Deku Tree.  :laugh:

KillerBob

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - relocalized (help needed)
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2015, 09:11:46 pm »
While that primitive artwork of the sword doesn't resemble the in-game appearance, I just realized that the work was probably based on a level 1-sword when Link wears the red ring. The artwork in some Japanese guide books seem to depict a bronze sword.

After your comment, I was curious to see what they called it in the Japanese Hyrule Warriors, it turns out it's called "Sword" just like in the original manuals. So "8-Bit Wooden Sword" appears to be a Nintendo of America term. Being completely unfamiliar with the game before seeing a clip on youtube, it surprised me that 1) The cross on the "8-Bit Shield" isn't a cross any longer. 2) Link look very feminine. But I guess the latter is a weird trend in Japanese entertainment these days.

But enough talk about the sword. A few subtle cosmetic changes done to the title screen...

before / after


properly displayed


Hardly noticeable but the shape of the Triforce was a bit poorly drawn when the English logo was made (inside the letter "D" and around the "Legend" part of the title). I also restored a tile that they didn't use. Still, definitely one of the best title screens of the NES era IMO, if only Metroid had received the same level of treatment for its localization.

Tomato

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - relocalized (help needed)
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2015, 02:26:35 pm »
This is a weird question, but here goes!

Basically, I'm close to finishing my first Legends of Localization book, and it's about Zelda 1 - http://legendsoflocalization.com/announcing-the-first-legends-of-localization-book/

I'd like to make a brief mention about how fans years later have taken on the task of retranslating the game themselves, and if possible I'd like to possibly include a screenshot or two from this project. Would that be cool with you, KillerBob? If so, would you be able to provide any screenshots that you think especially stand out?

KillerBob

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - relocalized (help needed)
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2015, 03:19:34 am »
This is a weird question, but here goes!

Basically, I'm close to finishing my first Legends of Localization book, and it's about Zelda 1 - http://legendsoflocalization.com/announcing-the-first-legends-of-localization-book/
Good to hear. Looking forward to it!

Which reminded me, I had forgotten to sign up for a notification. Now amended.

I'd like to make a brief mention about how fans years later have taken on the task of retranslating the game themselves, and if possible I'd like to possibly include a screenshot or two from this project. Would that be cool with you, KillerBob? If so, would you be able to provide any screenshots that you think especially stand out?
Hah! That would be awesome. :) I guess I'd better hurry up and get this patch of mine finished then. Some necessary ASM work is what has kept me from completing it as I'm a newbie. As for the translations and any screenshots, it's basically your work, 99% of it. As I have shamelessly stolen your lines straight from your great article I'm not really sure what to provide. I guess I can send you a bunch of screenshots and let you decide what would fit. I had actually thought about asking if you could provide some feedback on a couple of lines but I know you're a busy man. Are emulation screenshots enough for the purpose of the book?

Tomato

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - relocalized (help needed)
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2015, 04:47:21 pm »
Cool, thanks! And yep, emu screenshots are fine. I think any screens that have text that's very different from the official translation might be best, stuff like the old man's text in Level 1. That way it's immediately clear that it's been redone.

KillerBob

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - relocalized (help needed)
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2015, 11:35:36 am »
Cool, thanks! And yep, emu screenshots are fine. I think any screens that have text that's very different from the official translation might be best, stuff like the old man's text in Level 1. That way it's immediately clear that it's been redone.
I see, I guess one of these can be used then...



The Silver Arrow hint is another clear one but I might still rephrase it at this point. This is probably more than you asked for anyway.

ShadowOne333

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - relocalized (help needed)
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2015, 12:19:45 pm »
This project is looking great!

How far away are you from an initial release?! :)

Tomato

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - relocalized (help needed)
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2015, 05:31:28 pm »
Wow, looking good! Thanks for posting them!

KillerBob

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - relocalized (help needed)
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2015, 09:48:56 am »
This project is looking great!
Thanks! It's hard to fail with Tomato's great work as a foundation.

How far away are you from an initial release?! :)
Well, I basically finished this a couple of years ago but hit a wall on the save screen menu and walked away out of frustration but mostly for the lack of time and knowledge. Recently I've come back to it and gone back and forth on the phrasing of a few lines but it's more or less done. It's just that I'm an all or nothing kind of person, so the save screen issue is what have kept me from uploading it. But I guess I can make an initial release if there's interest. When it now gets a possible little mention in Tomato's upcoming book, it automatically has received a sort of deadline, which I think is good. :)

Wow, looking good! Thanks for posting them!
Thanks! :)

Regarding the text, if anyone wonders, it would certainly been nice to have lowercase letters as well, but I personally find it looks worse in most NES games without a variable width font. It would definitely alter the whole aesthetic feeling. Also, the Japanese game was only in katakana so I'm fine with the limitation. I only made it a rule to not let the quotes be typed all the way to the walls, as it's not that aesthetically pleasing. The original NES version has most of the text centered, I opted to only have the text block centered because I think the text look like headlines otherwise. The only changes made was that I have redrawn the question mark and made a special character for this fellow: