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Author Topic: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)  (Read 32125 times)

Celice

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2015, 03:59:00 am »
I can't wait for this project to finish :)

This does not surprise me at all.

The first thing I thought when I played Chrono Trigger for the first time was "Hey, this guy looks exactly like the guy from SoM.  And this princess looks exactly like the girl from SoM!  And they both have the exact same personality and role!"

At the time I thought it was just lazy writing, but now that you explain it as you did above, it makes perfect sense.

Mato actually mentioned some of this a while back on his Legends of Localization website,

http://legendsoflocalization.com/final-fantasy-iv-secret-of-mana-and-chrono-trigger-had-a-connection/

Cool to see others have heard of the connections from other places now, too!

SageOwl

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2015, 08:52:34 pm »
I can't wait for this project to finish :)

Mato actually mentioned some of this a while back on his Legends of Localization website,

http://legendsoflocalization.com/final-fantasy-iv-secret-of-mana-and-chrono-trigger-had-a-connection/

Cool to see others have heard of the connections from other places now, too!
Man, the stories behind these games are almost as rich as the stories put into them.
I find it amazing that the developers of these games couldn't stick with one vision of a game and then stick with it till the end. I know that the creative process is a bumpy road that only gets bumpier as time goes on, but it seems that the original vision is always better than the finished product. One example that is a bit more modern is Bioshock Infinite. Their 2010 E3 trailer was so fucking amazing that I was instantly sold on the game, but when it finally came out almost 3 years later what we got was something significantly different. Had the game been as it was initially visioned, then, man, that game would have been fucking amazing, just as Secret of Mana, Chrono Trigger, and FF4 would have been if you ask me.

Hiei-

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2015, 09:47:32 am »
I was asked by someone if I could do an english patch with the uncensored stuff and VWF and I found I could do it pretty easily so I'm actually working on it.

I guess it hould be ready in one week or two.

Edit : 40% of the script is inserted.

It took longer than I excepted (main reason was because I had forgot a lot of things about this romhack so I had to search them again, hopefully, this time, I wrote down everything in case I need them again :D)

Full english script is reinserted, english misc texts are reinserted, english battle texts are reinserted, splash screen is disabled.

Just need to put the english intro text back, redo the title subtitle, then to test the patch (shouldn't take that long).

I'll also put, with the future patch, the text dumps (english and japanese ones), in case someone is motivated to retranslate the game one day).
« Last Edit: August 18, 2015, 10:23:08 am by Hiei- »

Thanatos-Zero

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2015, 05:59:50 pm »
It seems I misunderstood you Hiei. I and Red thought was was retranslating the game, but we still appreciate your efforts to readd the cut material.

I have now here a draft for a new scene written, which may or may not appear in the end product.

It plays after the Mana Fortress has risen  (We consider to rename the Mana Fortress to the Throne of Mana).
Quote
Dyluck: "What is that?"
 
Thanatos: "This my precious? This is my greatest creation I planned for a long time, the Egg of Mana, a source of unlimited mana. And at the same time it is a cocoon to birth a god.
I almost had to give it up, because I thought the tribe of mana was extinct, because there was no woman left, until she came."
 
Thanatos reveals a nude copy of Purim
 
Dyluck: "Pu... Purim?!"
 
Thanatos: "She is Purim, but at the same time she is not."
 
Thanatos reveals a pool of naked Purim in a big glass container
 
Thanatos: "Aren't they beautiful? They all are copies of her, in other words clones. I created them by using the sample of blood I extracted from her back in the capital."
 
Dyluck: "You...YOU MONSTER!"

Dyluck falls on his knees
 
Thanatos: "Don't call me that my dear, they all serve the purpose to grant me in the end the absolute power.
I crafted from their flesh the "Egg" you saw.
 
Dyluck is overcome by terror
 
Thanatos: "The only reason, why I didn't made you mindless, is that so you can keep me company, as well as amusing me as you tremble, my precious."

Thirteen 1355

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2015, 08:27:06 am »
Throne of Mana sounds very cool. That name alone will make the plot of SoM much better than the empty hull it now is!!

Hiei-

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2015, 08:27:54 pm »
It seems I misunderstood you Hiei. I and Red thought was was retranslating the game, but we still appreciate your efforts to readd the cut material.

I don't, just did this patch modification because I got it requested, and even if I had the time, I wouldn't translate something into a language which isn't my native one.

But I'll include the japanese script so if someone want to do it, who knows. I will also include the french retranslation (from japanese) script. Maybe it'll be easier to find a french to english translator than a japanese to english one. The french retranslation is pretty good and an official/professional one (the only "wrong" thing is the fact they renamed the cat "Niccolo" but I guess it's just because it's the name used in American/Europe, that's the only name different from the japanese one I saw, as Legend of Mana use "Nikita" for the cat name in japanese, same as Secret of Mana which use "Nikita" for the cat name in japanese) so with a good french to english translator, it would be enough to do a pretty good english translation.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 08:35:16 pm by Hiei- »

samuraisnake

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2015, 12:23:03 am »
I'd rather the Mana Fortress was not renamed the Throne of Mana. Keep names the way they are except for certain names of people: do what you will.

Thanatos-Zero

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2015, 03:01:16 pm »
I'd rather the Mana Fortress was not renamed the Throne of Mana. Keep names the way they are except for certain names of people: do what you will.
The Mana Fortress was built to control the world's mana if I recall correctly.

Those who control mana, also rule about it, as such the Fortress is rather a throne for the one who controls it.
Also Administrator of Mana, Controller of Mana do not sound threathening as well as the original.

The Mana Fortress, for someone who hears its name the first time, would rather believe it serves to protect Mana, myself included when I was a child.
With the Throne of Mana as its name, its purpose can be directly grasped without much explaination, as a throne is a symbol of rulership.

Those who own the throne, are the sovereign, which can decide about the fate of their people.
As such the one who owns the Throne of Mana, decides about the fate of Mana.
That is why the Moon Gods have send a elder Flammie, the Mana Biest to destroy this blasphemy.


Now here I have been starting to create a concept graphic for the Egg of Mana, which will be a boss in the game.


Open the spoiler on your own risk as I provided a background entry for the Egg.
Spoiler:
This is a original concept for the Seiken Densetsu 2 Expansion, the Egg of Mana.

Created by Thanatos using Mana tribe woman to construct this monstrosity. It is a infinite source of Mana, as well serving as a cocoon to birth a god.

However since the Mana tribe became nearly extinct for reasons not offically known, Thanatos used the Blood of Randi, a actual male member of the tribe and the blood of Purim, which has come in contact with the Sword of Mana, to create female hybrid clones out of the two using Purim as the base, which in effect recreates Mana tribe woman necessary for its creation.

Unlike in the original, Thanatos will sucessfully highjack Dyluck's body and not lose it, by the original owner committing suicide. Thanatos in Dyluck's body will enter the Egg of Mana to bring forward his ascension to godhood. In the meantime his Shadow will intercept the Protagonists and transform into the Dark Lich.

Reaching the egg will ultimatively commence the first phase of the final battle.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 03:12:37 pm by Thanatos-Zero »

SageOwl

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2015, 04:16:22 pm »
The Mana Fortress was built to control the world's mana if I recall correctly.

Those who control mana, also rule about it, as such the Fortress is rather a throne for the one who controls it.
Also Administrator of Mana, Controller of Mana do not sound threathening as well as the original.

The Mana Fortress, for someone who hears its name the first time, would rather believe it serves to protect Mana, myself included when I was a child.
With the Throne of Mana as its name, its purpose can be directly grasped without much explaination, as a throne is a symbol of rulership.

Those who own the throne, are the sovereign, which can decide about the fate of their people.
As such the one who owns the Throne of Mana, decides about the fate of Mana.
That is why the Moon Gods have send a elder Flammie, the Mana Biest to destroy this blasphemy.


Now here I have been starting to create a concept graphic for the Egg of Mana, which will be a boss in the game.


Open the spoiler on your own risk as I provided a background entry for the Egg.
Spoiler:
This is a original concept for the Seiken Densetsu 2 Expansion, the Egg of Mana.

Created by Thanatos using Mana tribe woman to construct this monstrosity. It is a infinite source of Mana, as well serving as a cocoon to birth a god.

However since the Mana tribe became nearly extinct for reasons not offically known, Thanatos used the Blood of Randi, a actual male member of the tribe and the blood of Purim, which has come in contact with the Sword of Mana, to create female hybrid clones out of the two using Purim as the base, which in effect recreates Mana tribe woman necessary for its creation.

Unlike in the original, Thanatos will sucessfully highjack Dyluck's body and not lose it, by the original owner committing suicide. Thanatos in Dyluck's body will enter the Egg of Mana to bring forward his ascension to godhood. In the meantime his Shadow will intercept the Protagonists and transform into the Dark Lich.

Reaching the egg will ultimatively commence the first phase of the final battle.
I like that change. It really feels like something that would have been in the game given how fucking dark it is; sounds like you took a page from Xenogears/Saga on that one.
God knows that Thanatos felt flat and undeveloped in the original game and amounted to pretty much the token "I'm bad, watch me do bad things, k bye" antagonist.

Thanatos-Zero

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2015, 04:37:20 pm »
I like that change. It really feels like something that would have been in the game given how fucking dark it is; sounds like you took a page from Xenogears/Saga on that one.
God knows that Thanatos felt flat and undeveloped in the original game and amounted to pretty much the token "I'm bad, watch me do bad things, k bye" antagonist.
Thanks, but the most funny thing is, that I never played Xenogears or Xenosaga.
I only know vaguely a few things from those games though by telling and Tv tropes.
Well, the idea of the Egg could be contributed towards Saga Frontier 2 (partial the design elements from its final boss) and Berserk (man-made Behelit).
However, the idea is not new that villians use a device to become something greater, more powerful or use a cocoon to metamorph into the next stage.

Regarding Thanatos, I decided to make him and Belgar, the masked Magician to one and the same person.

The Dragon Emperor Drakonis/Tiamat was according to lore in fact the true villian of Seiken Densetsu 3, because he is the current ruling Archdemon of Mavolia and chosen one of the Thanatos, spirits resembling masks which serve the dark echoes. . Anyone touched by them becomes a Grimsly/Mavole, demons and other kind of monsters so to speak.

Depending on which main character you chose, the other two fractions are killed by the respective main antagonist for the character.
Dark Prince Strout from Lorimer, who ursurped Anise the former Archdemon (which is responsible for Mavolia and the dark echoes), was left in a severely weakened state, despite succeeding and was sealed by the Goddess of Mana.
Drakonis killed Stroud and Belgar later Anise finally to become the reigning Archdemon.
I assume, that Belgar who became corrupted by the dark arts and died by Drakonis' hand, came back as the Mavole named Thanatos.
The reason why he goes by the name has certainly to do with the fact, that the Thanatos gave Belgar the means to return to the world of the living, thus respecting them greatly as he himself still wears a mask. He however needs a body as told in the original, because his dark Lifeforce is very potent and easly destroys uncompatible hosts.

Interresting to note: Mavolians who fall in love with a human, are punished upon return to Mavolia with amnesia by the Archdemon.
It explains quite nicely why Bigieu goes by her alias Isabella the entire time in Sword of Mana.

I will join forces eventually with The Seikens, so I can create with their help a lore friendly expansion, creating stronger ties to the prequels and sequels as a result, without harming the canon.
The lore will be implemented in various ways, by books the player can read and by NPCs, for example a Ministral/Poet/Bard ala Romancing Saga.

If anything goes according my plans, the expansion will rival the extensive romhacking scene resolving about the Romancing Saga 3 hacks. And if we are daring enough, we might even include blood graphics like those from RS3.:P

Remember though, I cannot program or use ASM to do all of these by myself.
Only RedScorpion is capable of changing the ROM itself of our current team.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 07:07:45 pm by Thanatos-Zero »

RedScorpion

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2015, 03:37:35 am »
hi guys,

i hope that manafreak will expand the functions in his som1 editor to realise the NPC and Boss changes... It is a long way to change this kind of stuff only via ASM or hex edit...

The script is currently in process by Thanatos-Zero and i could insert it with one click. So i think we have to brainstorm a little bit more! ;)

Thanks

red

Thanatos-Zero

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2015, 10:50:42 am »
Update:

It isn't done yet, but I have the feeling it will be soon finished, atleast in greyscales.
Colouring however will be some of the more difficult tasks, because it always stands to question, which colours would be approciate.

Edit:
Update:


Edit2:
Update:


Edit3:
Update:
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 07:37:34 pm by Thanatos-Zero »

ExL

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2015, 07:52:51 am »
Hello!
Wanted to try coloring that monstrosity for you, but while I've put it off and went to sleep you managed well enough by yourself  So I just send it to you as is:

Petals was supposed to be semitransparent showing silhouette of what's inside by darkest shade, arms opening 4 top petals and bottom petals making something like red carpet entrance. By idea inside it's blood-red with with glowing circles where you see brighter red and brightest pinkish on petals.
You'll probably won't need that, but maybe it'll give ideas or what not, it's better than just trash picture.
Good luck with your great work :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 09:32:25 am by ExL »

Thanatos-Zero

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2015, 09:29:34 am »

Thanks ExL. It is inspiring, despite lacking antialiasing and having inconsistent random shading.
It may be of use for future modifications. :)

Edit:
Update:


September 06, 2015, 02:39:11 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I dislike to doublepost for a new update.
I rather have someone else posting reply with feedback first, so it all appears less chaotic.




Edit:
Update:



Edit2:
Update:

« Last Edit: September 06, 2015, 08:05:14 pm by Thanatos-Zero »

DragonArk

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2015, 08:15:34 pm »
Hey guys,
a while ago I was looking into the missing content and found a few videos and pictures that most likely came from the beta or CD version. If you have a look at the japanese manual, there is a world map picture that was probably made during when the CD version was being made. I have a physical copy of the Japanese manual if you want me to scan it so you can see the extra paths and areas they were going to create.

Here are some references to some extra footage of the game that wasn't included in the final game (some of it just looks like beta versions of used maps):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8ObmJ0x4_A (look at 1:45 for a quick example)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSWYkRJRSs4

Some pictures here too:
http://pantalytron.com/blog7.php/mein-kommentar-zu-definitive-ressource
http://pantalytron.com/blog7.php/definitive-ressource-secret-of-mana-2
http://www.flyingomelette.com/oddities/oddities25.html
http://www.unseen64.net/2008/06/08/secret-of-mana-snes-beta/
https://tcrf.net/Secret_of_Mana


I also made some quick observations for each map using Mop's secret of mana editor (They are very rough). You can see my 2013 post here - http://acmlm.kafuka.org/board/thread.php?id=7789
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 08:54:21 pm by DragonArk »

Thanatos-Zero

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2015, 09:38:09 pm »
Thanks DragonArk for your contribution, we will look into that later, because... Update!


SageOwl

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2015, 12:44:58 am »
Thanks DragonArk for your contribution, we will look into that later, because... Update!


Now that is what I would have expected Lavos' core to look like rather than what it actually was in Chrono Trigger. Nice touch with the bleeding eyes too.

That's some amazing insight there DragonArk. I have honestly never seen either of those videos until now and it's opened my eyes up to what MAY have been the original product (albeit I still think the CD version of the game was drastically different and that may just be beta for the cartridge version).
It may just be me, but in that first video the combat looked much MUCH more dynamic. It actually looked more like how zhade's improvement hack looks now, which scores more points for him.
I wonder if that prototype cartridge featured in the first video still exists. If it does, then it belongs in a museum.

DragonArk

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2015, 07:26:50 pm »
@SageOwl
Yeah, I really want to know where that cartridge is, it would be worth a fortune and would bring so much joy to the SoM community if it was released on the net!

@Thanatos-Zero
Looks very nice, you're doing a good job, especially that face at the top.

In terms of consistency, the only critique I can say about it is that I think there shouldn't be any gradient in the dark outlines because it doesn't match other SoM boss designs that don't have that anti-aliased look to it (perhaps other than that jelly one that shrinks and expands on hit). Everything inside the egg shape looks perfect, just the outline of the egg and it's exterior would need to be altered. If you care about consistency (which you might not), I would recommend looking at other boss designs and how they draw their outlines/lines in general.

As I said you might not care/be bothered, just thought I'd make you aware of it. Not trying to put you down, your work is amazing; keep it up! :D

References:
http://www.jellypaladin.com/pictures/Mana%20Beast%20sprite%20-%20Secret%20of%20Mana.gif
http://www.seikens.com/media/som/gfx/boss/39.gif
http://bulk2.destructoid.com/ul/115877-the-memory-card-49-saving-santa/Secret%20of%20Mana%20-%20Frost%20Gigas-468x.jpg
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 08:17:55 pm by DragonArk »

Thanatos-Zero

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2015, 04:18:03 pm »
Thank you DragonArk.
That is something I want to tackle as the last objective.

In any case...
Update Time!

It is about 70% done me thinks.

justin3009

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2015, 04:42:01 pm »
I can't imagine the sprite assembly and animation data for that thing. That's going to be one HELL of a thing to import.
'We have to find some way to incorporate the general civilians in the plot.'

'We'll kill off children in the Juuban district with an infection where they cough up blood and are found hanging themselves from cherry blossom trees.'