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Author Topic: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)  (Read 32124 times)

Thanatos-Zero

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Greetings everyone.

I recently joined RedScorpion's latest project to help him make it a reality. The retranslation of Secret of Mana, which is known as Seiken
Densetsu 2 in its original form.

As many of you know, the translator of the time Ted Woolsey, who was tasked with its translation back then, had a very unreasonable
deadline to met. Namely one month of time. As a result the translation was not only rushed, but also needed to be cut down, because
the data banks were not made for roman letters. In addition as the data banks couldn't be extented in time, Ted had no time to double
check his translations as well as he needed to improvise alot when he himself didn't understood the meaning of certain sentences.

The german version didn't fare much better in comparison, as Claude E. Moyse faced the same problems. Also he was told by Square to
make it funny. While it worked for us german kids, we are now grown ups and cannot find the same sort of joy reading the lines.

We intent to change that, thanks to FuSoYa's VWF and Moppy's Editor. First of all, while we intend to retranslate the game in both
english and german, we also plan to expand the game with the cut material and come closer to the original intent of the creators, back
when the project started as a SNES-CD game.
http://www.seikens.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3556

While we searched for the cut material, we found out to our suprise, that Chrono Trigger is the result of the unused ideas and concepts
of the original SNES-CD game.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/950181-chrono-trigger/65153017
http://thefbe.com/chrono-trigger-and-secret-of-mana-originate-from-the-same-project/
http://www.squareenixmusic.com/features/liners/seikendensetsubox.shtml

While we cannot insert all of Chrono Trigger into it as well, we might just take the ideas and make them more fitting for Seiken
Densetsu 2.

However while we of the german Seiken Densetsu community would like to go out as soon as possible, we still need a translator,
who can help us to come as close as possible to the original, and even more to the original SNES-CD content.

Our wish is to expand on a properly retranslated original, because it feels right that way.

Here also the text dump of Seiken Densetsu 2 and Woolsey's translation.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eUpvNb00soej3fHEFIX5zA_hRH70tLYA65UTfdNg220/pub
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 03:34:53 am by Thanatos-Zero »

GHANMI

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2015, 06:56:05 am »
The German script was actually the result of the translator, being actively discouraged by Nintendo of Europe from learning Japanese, traveled to Japan and was handed a Japanese script to work with. English script wasn't ready yet -- he explained the situation to the dumbfounded Squaresoft employees, who threw up for him a quick Engrishy script he didn't make any sense of.
So, he made up lots of parts of the script (such as imps watching real life soap operas)

The French script on the other hand was done after the English one, but the translator hated her job. And it was hit by the character limit even harder.

Even with the limitations back then, there exists a fully functional DTE programming to save space on some (customizable) letter combinations, but the translators were denied its use for some obtuse reason, and this took them by surprise, hence cutting parts of the script at random.

Secret of Mana had an iOS port in 2010. It included Woosley's English script (unchanged, except for a "..." replaced by the "killed" reference censored at the time, and almost nothing else).
But it also included French, German and Spanish translations done from scratch from the original Japanese script (NoE owns the rights to the SNES French/German translations). Not too attentive to stuff like Japanese speech patterns, but it's much better than the original English one.

Hiei made a patch on a FR PAL rom as a base (has NoE's shitty French patch, but main point of interest is bug fixes. optimized for 50Hz though, so 60Hz conversion does cause some bugs like cutscenes ending too quick).
He restored the stuff censored graphically from JP to US/PAL versions (except the title screen, and naming screen)
and injected the French iOS script inside the rom (it started as a retranslation using JP script but it turned out the French iOS script was acceptably accurate).

The patch was released already, somewhere.

Disch

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2015, 11:11:25 am »
While we searched for the cut material, we found out to our suprise, that Chrono Trigger is the result of the unused ideas and concepts
of the original SNES-CD game.

This does not surprise me at all.

The first thing I thought when I played Chrono Trigger for the first time was "Hey, this guy looks exactly like the guy from SoM.  And this princess looks exactly like the girl from SoM!  And they both have the exact same personality and role!"

At the time I thought it was just lazy writing, but now that you explain it as you did above, it makes perfect sense.

Jonesy47

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2015, 05:36:58 pm »
This does not surprise me at all.

The first thing I thought when I played Chrono Trigger for the first time was "Hey, this guy looks exactly like the guy from SoM.  And this princess looks exactly like the girl from SoM!  And they both have the exact same personality and role!"

At the time I thought it was just lazy writing, but now that you explain it as you did above, it makes perfect sense.

Dude, same!
I saw Chrono Trigger on the shelf and lost it as a kid! I thought it was the sequel to my favorite game at the time, Seret of Mana but, after renting it, I was sadly disappointed, at least for five minutes and then I fell in love with that game also.
This was a chain that led me to final fantasy and eventually to my long, obsessive love for the japanese rpg genre....ahhh, the 90's lol.

All that nostalgia out of the way, THANATOS! YOU ARE DOING AN AMAZING THING!!!
I FULLY SUPPORT THIS HACK!!
wish I knew japanese so I could help you.

RedScorpion

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2015, 04:54:54 am »
Hi Guys,

thanks for your feedback. We hope that we can realise all our plans and could release a 100% game with a full story, items, tiles and so on.

This would be a long way, so we need help to realise it.

1. Found a translator or find a new translated script.

I checked the IOS and Android Version of SOM and found the japanese, spanish, english and french script. Are you sure that Square has released also a german version of the game?!

2. Expand the Game.

Yes, there is a som1 editor which handle events similar temporal flux. If the editor is ready, we could integrate new thinks.
My personal plan is to implement a chrono npc which is give hints for next steps and so on! ;)

Thanks

red

Bregalad

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2015, 05:25:58 am »
Are you sure that Square has released also a german version of the game?!
Yes, all 3 of Final Fantasy Adventure, Secret of Mana and Secret of Evermore were released in German, even where I live which is an officially french speaking region :) People probably had to go to France or find a shop that imported from France if they wanted a version in french (oh the irony).

GHANMI

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2015, 07:02:04 am »
I checked the IOS and Android Version of SOM and found the japanese, spanish, english and french script. Are you sure that Square has released also a german version of the game?!

I checked just now, and sadly, it seems the only German version available is the SNES one, also released on Wii VC with minor changes not motivated by accuracy but rather avoiding legal issues (Lindenstraße>Fußball).
Smartphone versions (not to be confused with the JP-only cell-phone "remakes") doesn't include German at all.

Seems like the only scripts newly translated in the smartphone versions are the French one (totally different than SNES one), Spanish one (SNES version never had a Spanish translation), and Chinese translations (same as Spanish).
Smartphone version English script is the shitty SNES one bastardized from whatever Ted Woosley originally wrote.

Meaning... you'll probably have to translate to German from scratch (since the German SNES script is ... worthless). Good luck :/

Are you by any chance involved with the german translation of Seiken Densetsu 3? Because I'm interested in the tools for the text/graphics compression.

RedScorpion

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2015, 08:13:27 am »
Are you by any chance involved with the german translation of Seiken Densetsu 3? Because I'm interested in the tools for the text/graphics compression.

Yes i did, the tools was created and written by magno. I think you could contact him with your request.

Thanks

red

RetroHelix

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2015, 03:48:53 pm »
Looks like a big project. Good luck with it.

I have some questions. Are there any detailed information about the content that was cut out of SoM? Do you already have something in mind that you want to implement to make the game 'more complete'? Will you make it so that it has a 'darker tone' as it was meant to be?

azidahaka

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2015, 02:14:05 am »
Have you guys lied down a complete plan? Planning MSU-1 expansion?

I wonder if there's something i might help with.

RedScorpion

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2015, 05:24:06 am »
Yes, why not?!

We should expand the game step by step. MSU-1 could realize with a intro or some cut scenes.

Unfortunately there was never released any of the SNES CD ROM version videos, so how could we realize this?

I could dump the english, spanish, french and japanese script of som1 for IOS. I dont undertstand why square has release the game without a new german translation...

So we could choose which language we want to translate. I hope its easier to find a spanish or french guy for this.

Thanks

red

Thanatos-Zero

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2015, 02:03:07 pm »
All what we can do is to utilise anything Mana related into the project and thus built up step by step a game which touches on the other Seiken Densetsu Games, however the Masked Magician Belgar from SD3 might not be Thanatos.
I personally have many ideas. I even have in mind to set Poto's Village on fire by the empire after Randi leaves as a banished member.

Quote
"Hmph! Vandole's right hand is a fool to let himself tricked by a minor. In any case this will be a fine warning to Pandoria and the rebel scum, if they dare to rise a hand against us."

"Master, while I approve displaying our power, we should be careful with breaking the rules."

"Kihihi... My good servant, I am well aware that we have become war criminals by the 3rd Wendell Conventions, however we left no witnesses. All what is left to do is to spread false news that we have been attacked first. A good falseflag here and there, and the masses will buy the lie as the truth! Kyahahaha!!!

As for you three, make sure you to continue to search the boy with the sword. Lord Vandole might have mercy, but I will not accept empty hands! Failure means no rations next week!
And if anyone dares to speak of our crime in public, I will make sure your families will regret it as well."

"YES SIR!"

"Master, shall we proceed with Project Pride?"

"Not yet, we have to await for his call. If we proceed now, the republic will cause us much disarray. It shouldn't take long until he has Pandoria under complete control."

VioletFox

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2015, 09:52:49 pm »
With the MSU-1 you could bring in the cd music. A few years ago it was released as an album, called “Secret of Mana Genesis Seiken Densetsu 2 Arrange Album”. Besides being clearer audio from the snes, I remember there was a few more instruments in some songs. There would also be no more sound  effects cutting out the music with this as well lol.

azidahaka

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2015, 01:55:59 am »
Or just go for remix or "enhanced versions" made by fans...

RedScorpion

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2015, 10:08:44 am »
Hi Guys,

found the scripts in IOS and Android version and check the english one.

Are you sure, that the script is the same like in the SOM1 SNES translation from Ted Woosley? (sounds like Ted Moosby ;)) LOL! ;)

Compare some sentences and found a lot of differents.

In the next step we could use the french/spanisch script and compare it with the english one. If we found a french or spanish guy who want help here.

Thanks

red

Hiei-

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2015, 07:11:29 am »
Hiei made a patch on a FR PAL rom as a base (has NoE's shitty French patch, but main point of interest is bug fixes. optimized for 50Hz though, so 60Hz conversion does cause some bugs like cutscenes ending too quick).
He restored the stuff censored graphically from JP to US/PAL versions (except the title screen, and naming screen)
and injected the French iOS script inside the rom (it started as a retranslation using JP script but it turned out the French iOS script was acceptably accurate).

The patch was released already, somewhere.

V2 which feature a VWF is native 60Hz. It also feature a new title screen (original one but with another color palette), with a subtitle which is the translation of the title "Seiken Densetsu" (Legend of the Holy Sword, in french, of course), but I forgot if it was made for V2 or if it was already in the first version.



Hi Guys,

found the scripts in IOS and Android version and check the english one.

Are you sure, that the script is the same like in the SOM1 SNES translation from Ted Woosley? (sounds like Ted Moosby ;)) LOL! ;)

Compare some sentences and found a lot of differents.

In the next step we could use the french/spanisch script and compare it with the english one. If we found a french or spanish guy who want help here.

Thanks

red

That's what I heard about the english version but I didn't checked each sentence (read it was majority the same except some names changes). Feel free to send both scripts (english/french) in PM and I'll check with mine. Had them a while ago but I don't think I still have them.

About an english retranslation, DarknessSavior contacted me in 2013 to do one, so I sent him the japanese script and said him I would gladly reinsert the whole  translated script in my version (which already feature VWF, rom expansion and some censored things restored, like a boss and also a few unused dialogs) but didn't heard about him since then, so he might have gave up the project.

June 26, 2015, 08:25:19 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
..Elliott: Waaaaaah!!!..Man: That appears to be the real Mana Sword. Well...this certainly is troubling...
Bob : Bah ! D'abord, j'y suis pour rien, moi !..Voyageur : On dirait que cette ..p..e est bel et bien la v..ritable ..p..e de Mana..L'heure est grave. Notre monde est en p..ril..%S(0,

Some sentences seems better than the old ones, in english, but yeah, it's not accurate sometimes.

For example, here, the english should have been something like that :

Bob : Well! It's not my fault at all, anyway!.. Traveler: It looks like this sword is really the Mana Sword. It is quite serious. Our world is in danger.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2015, 01:51:10 pm by Hiei- »

SageOwl

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2015, 11:55:11 am »
Greetings everyone.

I recently joined RedScorpion's latest project to help him make it a reality. The retranslation of Secret of Mana, which is known as Seiken
Densetsu 2 in its original form.

As many of you know, the translator of the time Ted Woolsey, who was tasked with its translation back then, had a very unreasonable
deadline to met. Namely one month of time. As a result the translation was not only rushed, but also needed to be cut down, because
the data banks were not made for roman letters. In addition as the data banks couldn't be extented in time, Ted had no time to double
check his translations as well as he needed to improvise alot when he himself didn't understood the meaning of certain sentences.

The german version didn't fare much better in comparison, as Claude E. Moyse faced the same problems. Also he was told by Square to
make it funny. While it worked for us german kids, we are now grown ups and cannot find the same sort of joy reading the lines.

We intent to change that, thanks to FuSoYa's VWF and Moppy's Editor. First of all, while we intend to retranslate the game in both
english and german, we also plan to expand the game with the cut material and come closer to the original intent of the creators, back
when the project started as a SNES-CD game.
http://www.seikens.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3556

While we searched for the cut material, we found out to our suprise, that Chrono Trigger is the result of the unused ideas and concepts
of the original SNES-CD game.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/950181-chrono-trigger/65153017
http://thefbe.com/chrono-trigger-and-secret-of-mana-originate-from-the-same-project/
http://www.squareenixmusic.com/features/liners/seikendensetsubox.shtml

While we cannot insert all of Chrono Trigger into it as well, we might just take the ideas and make them more fitting for Seiken
Densetsu 2.

However while we of the german Seiken Densetsu community would like to go out as soon as possible, we still need a translator,
who can help us to come as close as possible to the original, and even more to the original SNES-CD content.

Our wish is to expand on a properly retranslated original, because it feels right that way.

Here also the text dump of Seiken Densetsu 2 and Woolsey's translation.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eUpvNb00soej3fHEFIX5zA_hRH70tLYA65UTfdNg220/pub
Wow... this blew my mind. I never would have guessed two of my favorite games spawned from the same project, were almost the same game at one point, and that one of my favorite Final Fantasy games would have been related as well. Here I just thought SoM was the same game in development and then post the CD debacle they just stripped tons of content, but a complete overhaul of what it was supposed to be.

These ambitious projects never fucking work do they? We are still seeing this nowadays and it is fucking annoying.

That being said, I hope you succeed in this hack because the dedicated Mana fanbase deserves at least a fan's perspective on what this lost game was supposed to be. I wish that they had a prototype out there so we could at least get a glimpse of it.
The fbe.com and squareenixmusic links you have posted do not work for whatever reason.


SageOwl

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2015, 11:04:01 am »
Awesome man, thanks. I'm going to look into this when I can.

Hiei-

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (translator needed)
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2015, 09:18:07 am »
I was asked by someone if I could do an english patch with the uncensored stuff and VWF and I found I could do it pretty easily so I'm actually working on it.

I guess it hould be ready in one week or two.

Edit : 40% of the script is inserted.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 10:53:16 am by Hiei- »