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Author Topic: Final Fantasy 7 - Retranslation Project (PSX)  (Read 139524 times)

Green_goblin

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Retranslation Project (PSX)
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2015, 11:37:03 am »
If you extend KERNEL.BIN beyond its internal limit the only effect you get is a crash with certain strings and other kernel data overflow, which becomes evident on any platform. SCENE.BIN is mostly the same: it's a segmented file cached on demand, but it makes no difference how much it grows, as long as it stays within the internal limit (again, overflows would appear everywhere). Your problem seems to be somewhere else, but I can bet it's related to alignment. As a matter of fact, my personal version of FF7i (translated and repacked) suffers none of that and it's heavily hacked.

Also I remember that the retranslated .DAT files where bigger than the original ones, and probably that causes hardware compatibility problems as well. Anyways it's better to use emulators (quick save states, graphics improvements, etc) so the game not working on a reals PSX is not a big deal  ::)

Gemini

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Retranslation Project (PSX)
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2015, 11:39:06 am »
It's a big deal if you can't use it on everyone's favorite platform: the PSP. Plus most people like to have games on their TVs. Not sure why you wouldn't want max compatibility when the fix is like a 2 minute work.
I am the lord, you all know my name, now. I got it all: cash, money, and fame.

Green_goblin

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Retranslation Project (PSX)
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2015, 11:42:32 am »
It's a big deal if you can't use it on everyone's favorite platform: the PSP. Plus most people like to have games on their TVs. Not sure why you wouldn't want max compatibility when the fix is like a 2 minute work.

The problem is that I'm not a romhacker, I'm just a translator. I spent months and months trying to port the PC retranslation and finally I've made it. Do you want to help me with the compatibility problem?

Retranslated disc 1 and 2 are bigger than the original ISO, disc 3 for some reason have the same size.

Gemini

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Retranslation Project (PSX)
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2015, 11:44:29 am »
I'm sure CUE or any other hacker would be capable and definitively glad to help with the issue. As for myself, I haven't been doing any hacks in years. Then again, I suspect you don't need a hacker to fix it, this is just runtime data issues you can easily detect with no$psx.
I am the lord, you all know my name, now. I got it all: cash, money, and fame.

Burnt Lasagna

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Retranslation Project (PSX)
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2015, 12:43:15 pm »
Retranslated disc 1 and 2 are bigger than the original ISO, disc 3 for some reason have the same size.
For reference sake, the re-translated Disc 3 does start in Mednafen (though I don't have a save to test on that disc).


Green_goblin

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Retranslation Project (PSX)
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2015, 04:20:02 pm »
I just tested the 3 ISOs with Xebra, which is known to be a super-accurate emulator, just like the real hardware PSX, and they all work well. I never used Mednafen and I do not own the PSP, so I'll wait until someone test the game on the PSP.

PD: The same happens with the emulator "No$psx", all ISOs work well.

SC

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Retranslation Project (PSX)
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2015, 04:40:13 pm »
Someone should check out the integrity of the YAMADA.BIN file. :huh:

I particularly don't like this translation.
  • It's excessively literal (good localisations are never so literal).
  • It contains new translation mistakes (seems the translator doesn't know much japanese).
  • Gives me the vibe the translator was somehow biased towards some ideas (judging by the new mistakes introduced).
Judge by yerselves!

These same points are also valid on the new Spanish re-translation done on the PAL version by some people known as xulikotony and ortew.

But at least these new translations are better than the original ones. :thumbsup:

DLPB

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Retranslation Project (PSX)
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2015, 05:08:12 pm »
Quote
It's excessively literal (good localisations are never so literal

It certainly is not.  Liberties were taken where needed and if ours was to be considered literal then virtually every localization would, including the original version. But some examples would be nice, with how you would have done it, as that would be positive criticism and give me a better idea of where your problem lies. 

If this was "excessively literal", I can assure you that the following dialogue would never have happened:

Code: [Select]
“Damn,man! Your face looks like
  a chocobo's arse! You tired,pops?”{NEW}
“Well,you can rest up on the third
  floor if you like.”
Quote
It contains new translation mistakes (seems the translator doesn't know much japanese)

Examples?  Also, the person working with me translated the entire game, works as a translator, and is extremely proficient in Japanese.  He is also working in Japan. Whilst it's possible some mistakes slipped through (a vast minority), if no-one tells us about them, they are not going to get corrected.  Making unfounded accusations about the competence of the translator is not helpful in the slightest.

Quote
Gives me the vibe the translator was somehow biased towards some ideas (judging by the new mistakes introduced)

Well, first you've stated that we are too literal and now you are stating we are biased to "some ideas".  Any non-literal localization is going to have preference bias in text.  You can't have it both ways.  However, I again need examples.

Also, do you speak fluent Japanese?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 05:32:45 pm by DLPB »

Burnt Lasagna

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Retranslation Project (PSX)
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2015, 06:20:37 pm »
I just tested the 3 ISOs with Xebra, which is known to be a super-accurate emulator, just like the real hardware PSX, and they all work well. I never used Mednafen and I do not own the PSP, so I'll wait until someone test the game on the PSP.
As I understand it, Mednafen has surpassed Xebra in recent years, in terms of accuracy.
Though with the above being said, I just tested the patch on the PSP and Disc 1 loads fine...

Any brave soul care to put a CD-R's life on the line to test this patch on a real PS1? I would do it myself, but my PS1's lens died years ago. 

Seihen

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Retranslation Project (PSX)
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2015, 06:31:16 pm »
Ouch... getting a little defensive about some criticism over the translation, are we? Not that I don't agree that examples would be nice when making statements, but on the other hand, it's worth at least considering the criticism before getting butthurt.

Though I haven't played the retranslation (nor do I have any intention to), I would like to stand up for it a bit due to a common misunderstanding I run into from other people. I've played through FFVII entirely in Japanese (once entirely through and then again through disc one) and in English (countless times).  When I played through the game over and over in English as a child, I kept feeling like I was just barely missing out on some truly amazing and deep plot points that were obfuscated with a clunky translation.  As I got older, learned Japanese (yes, I also live in Japan, work in translation, and am 'fluent,' so let's not go there), I ran across a disturbing reality:  the Japanese version itself isn't actually all that much deeper and also is full of dull, stilted dialog.

Don't get me wrong, it's still an awesome game and the English translation was awful.  But the Japanese writing for FFVII isn't gold itself, so sometimes a translation of it into English (which sounds dull or unnatural because the Japanese was dull or unnatural) comes off as a mistake of the translator.

That said... I don't think putting "Damn man! Your face looks like a chocobo's arse!" is proof that you are a good translator or localizer. Cursing -- especially unnecessarily --  is the J2E work of kids. I'm sure you have better examples to show off your work.

DLPB

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Retranslation Project (PSX)
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2015, 07:48:13 pm »
Criticism without any substance isn't constructive. There is nothing wrong with criticism if comes with evidence and a suggestion of how to fix the issue.  Asserting things as facts without evidence, and slagging the translator off in the process, isn't it.

If you think that behaviour is okay, I suggest you address that issue with yourself.

My example wasn't even trying to "show off" the work.  Read the post again, I make the reason very clear.

Your post is precisely the reason I decided to base the translation at one forum (an adult forum) rather than multiple places.  There are too many people like you around, defending crap and brandishing childish insults like "butt hurt".  Let me make this simple for you... if you haven't got anything constructive to add to the project, do one.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 07:59:34 pm by DLPB »

Seihen

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Retranslation Project (PSX)
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2015, 07:58:49 pm »
Criticism without any substance isn't constructive. There is nothing wrong with criticism if comes with evidence and a suggestion of how to fix the issue.  Asserting things as facts without evidence, and slagging the translator off in the process, isn't it. 

If you think that behaviour is okay, I suggest you address that issue with yourself.

My example wasn't even trying to "show off" the work.  Read the post again, I make the reason very clear.

Your post is precisely the reason I decided to base the translation at one forum (an adult forum) rather than multiple places.  There are too many people like you around, defending crap and brandishing childish insults like "butt hurt".  Let me make this simple for you... if you haven't got anything constructive to add to the project, do one.

Did I not try to explain where that criticism may be coming from (you know, that the Japanese original was itself dull at times, which may be misappropriated as the fault of the translator)? I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here, other than getting angry that people would point out personal quibbles with the revised translation (again, I don't care for unnecessary cursing, but that's a personal point).  I also provided a specific example of what I found wrong (which you asked for), so I think that should fall under your "valid" category.

So let's bring this back on track.

Could you please explain why the Japanese line was translated that way, keeping in mind the goals of the project to provide a cleaner FFVII translation closer to the source?

Thank you and have a nice day.  :)

DLPB

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Retranslation Project (PSX)
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2015, 08:02:53 pm »
The line was translated that way because it is not a literal translation, as I was pointing out. The original Japanese line insults Cloud ("Go and wash your face") and so I added an insult.  Normally, I would have made the insult more generic, but adding "looks like a slapped ass"  etc, worked much better as "chocobo's arse / ass".  It was my choice to use that and it does not in any way change the established facts.

However:

Quote
Though I haven't played the retranslation (nor do I have any intention to),

I am not sure, given this admission, that you are really justified offering any critique of the project.  Surely to be eligible, you have to at least see it?  If you have no interest in this project whatsoever, I am a bit baffled why you are posting here...

I'd be very happy if you said you were going through all the Japanese v English text and pointing out anything you did not like.  A few have done just that, and it is very good feedback.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 08:12:03 pm by DLPB »

Seihen

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Retranslation Project (PSX)
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2015, 09:20:32 pm »
I am not sure, given this admission, that you are really justified offering any critique of the project.  Surely to be eligible, you have to at least see it?  If you have no interest in this project whatsoever, I am a bit baffled why you are posting here...

Please let me know where I can pick up my application form to apply for permission to provide feedback on something.  :) As someone who has played both games in both languages and is fluent in both (are you, sir? Might want to think about that before questioning those around you), I'd say I have some sort of ability to discuss the differences in both versions of the game and common issues with the localization.

If there was a repository where one could look at the Japanese and English lines without having to actually pick up a controller and play the game manually, I'd actually love the opportunity to look through the translation and offer my 'qualified' feedback, since my feedback on your one posted line of text is apparently not needed, welcome, nor 'eligible.'  It'd be a great exercise and, hey, something good might even come from it.

However, I've been nothing but polite and cordial.  If you could at least speak respectfully, I feel like you could get some actual feedback which would do your project some good.

DLPB

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Retranslation Project (PSX)
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2015, 09:36:10 pm »
I was not questioning your authority on the Japanese v Original English, I was questioning your authority on Japanese v Retranslation, since you haven't seen/played it, and admitted you never will...

I am more than happy for you to compare the two sets of text, or play through both games and offer up any suggestions.  I can then run anything that looks like a mistake past my translator and the issue will be fixed / added to the bugtracker, found here:

If you are willing, I will give you both sets of text, so you can do that.  :)
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 09:46:20 pm by DLPB »

luksy

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Retranslation Project (PSX)
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2015, 10:46:35 pm »
We might want to split this discussion or move it to the project thread depending on what Green_goblin wants, but it can't hurt to sum things up to avoid a flame war:

SC you've made at least two broad factual claims, that is to say the translation is too literal and incorrect in places. We have no choice but to dismiss these unless you provide concrete examples, we can give you some text dumps if you'd rather not play through the game itself.

Seihen I know you haven't criticized the retranslation directly, but your posts make it sound like you're giving weight to SC's "too literal" claim without having seen the translation yourself. We can give you the same text dumps if you're interested in having a look.

Seihen

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Retranslation Project (PSX)
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2015, 11:17:12 pm »
Seihen I know you haven't criticized the retranslation directly, but your posts make it sound like you're giving weight to SC's "too literal" claim without having seen the translation yourself. We can give you the same text dumps if you're interested in having a look.

If they're available someplace, that'd be awesome to see it (and I think a great resource for people looking for FFVII quotes and to look up parts of the story). I think there was a Chrono Trigger project like that put up once, wasn't there?

DLPB

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Retranslation Project (PSX)
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2015, 11:37:08 pm »
See PM

At a later date, I may pop these on the official thread.

Probably best to note anything in a text file and send me it when completed, rather than constant update posts  :thumbsup: :)

Thanks, and good luck!
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 11:52:18 pm by DLPB »

Green_goblin

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Retranslation Project (PSX)
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2015, 06:48:00 am »
Hi all

Maybe it's better if you discuss translation/interpretations/accuracy issues in the DLPB forum, since there is where it all began:

http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=14914.0

An we can use this post to simply talk about PSX problems, the PSP, emulators, hardware compatibility, etc.

I want to be synchronized with the PC retranslation, so if DLPB changes something I will reflect those changes in the PSX version as well.


Bahamut ZERO

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Retranslation Project (PSX)
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2015, 11:22:06 am »
Woah an FF7 project! I need to track my discs down and try running this off of PSP!  :woot!:

I have just a few quick questions to ask in the meantime (mostly out of curiosity).

1) Did you guys happen to uncensor any of the symbolized ( "!%#?" ) curse words?  Granted, there's no real need to, but I've always wondered what was coming out was coming out of Barret's/Cid's mouth at times.  Plus, the game already had a steady stream of cursing - I always wondered why Square bothered to censor the (very) few they  did.

2) How were you able to edit the text in the PSX version? I find that in itself awesome beyond belief! Is there some sort of text editor, or did you use hex editor/tables?


3) I am a really a Nigerian Prince. Please send me your credit card information to recieve your free sports car and/or erectile dysfunction medication NAO!   :D


Uh, don't answer the third one.  Still excited from coming across this thread.


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