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Author Topic: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)  (Read 13529 times)

Korichu

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2015, 02:05:00 pm »
These patches seem really cool, I'm gonna have to try them. It reminds me of how I wanted to make the White Mages able to use bows because I thought it was silly they couldn't when if I remember right, Black Mages can.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 02:37:48 pm by Korichu »
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Maeson

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2015, 03:33:20 pm »
They can equip a couple of them here, although as Black Mages, they are not very good with bows.

I was thinking about giving them some kind of weapon to use, but I didn't know how they would benefit from that, seeing that now staves and rods give bonuses to Int/Spirit which can be useful to achieve a higher Magic Attack Multiplier for both healing and damaging spells like Aero or Holy in the White Mage case, and some Agi or Vit depending on what item.

I'm seeing how could I reorganize things with custom usability groups, as I want to distribute things in a better way than i did with this release. Weapons, Armor are sure to change (Not entirelly, but more of a "Now I don't have to sacrifice a class for another" way), and Magic i'm doubting what to do.

I want to change some spells (Like changing Kill into a dark spell that the Dark/Mystic Knight could use) and also give some magic to some classes, and by modifying groups on the Base MP table i'm able to give magic points, but I don't know if that would be ok seeing how some classes will lose a command, even if most people i've talked to usually ignore things like Defend.

I guess it depends on how it's done.

Although all this will take some time to plan, of course.
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magictrufflez

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2015, 02:07:43 pm »
Maeson, quick question regarding the character palette-change patches:

Do each set only affect certain classes (the ones displayed in the pics), or certain characters (ie Set 1=Character 1, Set 2=Character 2, etc)?  I wasn't quite sure from the readme which patch affects what character under what conditions.

I ended up using some of the menu palette-swaps, and they're quite a bit easier on the eyes than I thought they would be (I normally change my FF menu colors to straight black first chance I get)--the purple is a bit bright for me, but the rest actually look pretty good in game.  So, nice work on the visual changes so far! 

Maeson

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2015, 02:18:46 pm »
I personally like the black one for the main menu too, at least for this game, as it makes the sprites easier to look at and the original blue is a little to bright in my TV.

About the character palettes, i'll try to explain:

Set 1 only affects Onion Kid, Fighter, White Mage, Red Mage, Knight, Scholar, Shaman, Sage and Ninja

Set 2 only affects Monk, Black Mage, Geomancer, Dragoon, Viking, Black Belt, M. Knight, and Warlock.

Set 3 only affects Hunter, Thief, Conjurer, Bard, and Summoner.

Putting it in a few words, each patch changes one palette, and because they are only 3 palettes, jobs are put in "sets".
You can use one patch for each set.

When I release my 1.1 patch I'll re-do that part to be easier to understand and add screenshots for all clases for each palette swap, if it's needed, and maybe add some more colors, if I find something it looks at least decent.
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magictrufflez

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2015, 02:08:38 am »
Thanks Maeson---I think if you include which classes are affected by which set in the readme, you should be good.  I think you cover each class you mentioned in the screenshot sets you attached, so you probably wouldn't need to do much more work there IMO (unless you really wanted to of course)

I know when I fired up the game to make sure all the patches were taking effect properly, I saw there were 3 color schemes for my main characters, so that was what primarily confused me.


Maeson

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2015, 03:27:18 am »
Yes, I need to do a better job with the Readme, which I freely admit I suck at doing those, and not only the palette part of it needs a better job at writing looking at it for a moment, thankfully I can edit it easily once I have the update ready.

Do you want to request/suggest  a color combination?

I also want to post an idea of what spells would fit some classes, but i'm yet to make the full list.

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magictrufflez

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #46 on: May 23, 2015, 07:46:57 am »
I think the color combinations you gave work well for me, so nothing specific, not that there's much more you can probably do with the NES colorscheme (and the colorschemes in this particular game) without more extensive hacking.

And don't worry about the readme too much--your hack has more to do with rebalancing rather than anything else, and it communicates what you changed well enough.  Just that one part wasn't very clear.  You were probably more focused on the hacking rather than proofreading anyways, which is understandable, so don't smash yourself up too much over it.

May 27, 2015, 06:07:19 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
So, I'm at the part where I'm supposed to go to the Dwarf Village/Cave, but I have 2 things I wanted to note:

---This has absolutely no negative impact on the gameplay by any means, but Desh would change color when I enter certain places for some reason, both on the map and in the menu screen.  It's kind of an odd bug, considering how NES pallettes work, but it was something that seemed out of place.  For the record, my battle/camp menu is green/greenborders, and I used the Red/Set2 and Blue/Set3 character sprite patches

---One gameplay thing that really bothered me was the Nepto Shrine boss.  Granted, I am using the moarHP patch, but I was at what I thought was a respectable level, and that mouse absolutely smoked me with his Fire2/Ice2 in 2 rounds.  I'm not sure if you went in and changed some of the spells available for various monsters, but if you dive back in, I'd advise changing the mouse's spell selection to use "1" spells instead of "2" spells.  I only beat him because I lucked out and got some crits and he ended up not using his more powerful attacks.

Other than that one balancing issue, I like how the moarHP patch has gelled with the rest of the work you did so far.  Nothing is ridiculously overwhelming one way or another (other than that mouse), but I'm pretty sure I haven't been utilizing the class system very well.  Should I be frequently shifting the class make-up of my party or just sticking with 1 general setup?  I'm currently playing with a Fighter/Monk/Blk/Wht Wizards, which what I've gone with since the start.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 06:07:19 am by magictrufflez »

Maeson

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2015, 05:56:46 pm »
Desh is supposed to change colors in some places, the original game does the same thing. Sometimes he has a redish pink tone, others he's blue from top to bottom. If you have Desh in your group still, could yo do a screenshot?

If it's the usual thing, it changes depending on the "npc" palettes stored for each area.

About the Big Rat... I went to that part, and after pondering for a bit I think you're totally right.
It's too damn good of a mage to be actually enjoyable as a boss, too soon.

The best part is that the damn thing doesn't have that much int to begin with, lol.

I shall edit his spells for the next release, which will have small changes in usability groups for weapons and armor, and another patch that will let some classes have a small spell list, for example giving Knight some white spells, or Scholar a selection of White and Black, giving more freedom for creating your party (I hope I haven't gone too far). It will also buff Spirit and Int of those classes to make the spells that use such stats more useful for them.

Thank you for your input!


For the classes, you should use what you want to. Sometimes the game tries to point you to a class you "need", but you can, and should, play with whatever makes you happy, although as you progress you will get "better" jobs (like, more interesting front line warriors to change your Fighter, which is as basic as he can be).

Sticking to a few classes will also increase your skill level, making them better too, so changing a lot is not very recommended unless you know what you're doing. And it would also make you farm a lot of capacity points, now that I think about it.

May 29, 2015, 06:31:10 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Ok, I'm almost finished with the "small" update i'm doing.

I fixed the Big Rat problem, now it will cast Fire Ice and Bolt, instead of Fire2, Ice2, and Bolt2, which are less powerful and only attack one character.

I also fixed an oversight with the dark sword Ashura, where everybody but the M. Knight could equip it. I also modified a few weapons to been able to use by more classes. The same can be said for armors, now for example Thief and Hunter have a few more options for early game as I was able to create custom groups so I didn't have to choose to sacrifice a class for another with pre-made groups.

I finished the "Magic Expansion" patch, which will give magic capabilities to classes that usually don't have any, and modifies some spells,stats, and commands. And a little text if you want.

I don't know if I should merge it with the other magic patch, as it changes more than one thing and it makes a big difference compared to the other patches. For now is it's own separated patch, containing all the changes to make it work, and it has it's own Readme.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 06:32:08 am by Maeson »
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magictrufflez

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #48 on: May 30, 2015, 01:00:57 pm »
To start with, I'm playing without your most recent changes, but I've gotten well past losing Desh, so I can't provide screenshots.  However, what you said about the original game having Desh makes me think this has something to do with the original ROM and not your patches.  I'm currently just after getting the Water Crystal jobs, and I'm farming some money to upgrade my equips.

I've only run into 1 other encounter so far that's on the level of the Big Mouse one I pointed out earlier---the Kraken fight was even worse in the Water Cave.  I don't know what its stats are, but the first time I fought it, it cast Fire 2 round 1....and hit everyone for ~500 damage!  The second round saw Ice 2, and finished everyone off, just like the Mouse encounter--and also like that encounter, I only got past it by being really lucky and one time through Kraken didn't cast any spells.  I'm not sure how you could go about rebalancing this fight, but maybe reducing Kraken's stats might work?  I think the spells are pretty appropriate for this part, but almost 1-shotting my whole party (lvl 18 Knight/Hunter/Blk/Wht Wiz) seems a bit much

Also along the lines of rebalancing, black magic is getting a bit ridiculous, and I think it's because of the way you redid the skill bonus.  If I remember the readme correctly, you made the skill level multiplier (Sk lvl / 8)--Considering how skill levels are earned, maybe something like (Sk lvl / 10), (Sk lvl /12), or even (Sk lvl / 15) might be more appropriate.  I've done pretty minimal farming so far, although I have fought ~90% of the random encounters, but Ice 3 and all the 2 spells are just annihilating everything in my path right now, even with the moarHP patch.  I'm not sure if you addressed any of this in your recent changes, but it's something that's gotten a bit out of hand in my playthrough.

Something I'm also keeping my eye on is the massive damage increase when I changed my knight into a viking.  I doubled up on boomerangs, and good god my damage output has over doubled from my 2-sword knight!  My thief is also hitting pretty heavy too, with an over 50% increase in damage from my Hunter with 2 Boomerangs.  I'm going to keep an eye on the damage progression as I raise my skill ranks, but I'm not so sure all the stat increases for equipment (especially strength bonuses) were necessary, especially when my main melee fighters have started 1-shotting enemies when they too 2-3 hits on regular enemies before.  Again, all of this is with the moarHP patch

Sorry this was a bit long, but the power balancing seems a bit off---so I hope this helps!  I'll keep letting you know if I bump into anything that seems odd

Maeson

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #49 on: May 30, 2015, 03:07:44 pm »
At what level did you fight Kraken? I need to know so I can see what kind of changes I need to make.

For now I think i'll have to go and directly nerf Fire2/Ice2/Bolt2, although I don't remember having serious problems with Kraken and I've played that fight several times...

Did you have problems with Hyne? Because he uses those spells too...

About the black magic part, I guess I could downgrade it to Skill/16 (it can only go 8/16/32 and like that), but doing so will make black and white magic much, much less rewarding (the formula is very harsh) and i really don't want to approach it this way.

I despise this way even more if I think about my new patch that adds magic to more classes. If it reduces the mages strong point to a somewhat mediocre one, imagine what the other classes will end up with...

On the other hand, I was thinking of lowering spell damage instead of changing the skill part, (something i've been thinking since the Big Rat thing), and I admit the damage is quite high, but is in my interest to make magic powerful, after all, you have limited uses for spells, they should feel worth using (And more powerful than normal attacks, as they don't waste anything) and the point of my hack initially, and my first idea was to improve how awfully weak and useless magic was before.

Although a point in my favor about being hit hard with magic is that you're most probably using weak defensive equipment from the floating continent.

When you go outside of the floating continent, there is a big change in weapons and armor, I recommend you go to, for example, to Dastar/Duster and try to get yourself some new gear and see if there are any differences, as the equipment you get after the third crystal is a much needed improvement.

About the weapon part, the boomerang type weapon have been nerfed (The first one, from 85 Attack to 65, the second one from 115 to 95). That's another case of me trying to make something useful and going a little too far, even if I nerfed the second one from the beginning (seriously, 160 Attack for the Moonring Blade is total overkill, my god).

About the stat increases, they are actually very small things, besides Int/Spirit (For a bigger multiplier) or Agi (For a bigger number of hits), but even then you need quite a few of them to make any difference (And with magic you may not even see real changes because of how damage fluctuates).

Things like +5 Str or Vit doesn't add that much difference either. They are just small bonuses (Strength is divided by 2, so +5 Strentgh is just +2 attack, the same with Defense), and the game lacks other type of extras besides Fire/Bolt/Ice up, but I can look into it again now that I added magic to some classes, or even try to see what effects do Fire/Bolt/Ice up have on defensive gear.

About one-shotting normal enemies... That's something that happened with the vanilla game too... If you look at a guide where it shows monster's HP, you'll see is INCREDIBLY LOW, even in the final parts of the game.  You're lucky some enemies have more than 1000 HP...

You also should be seeing an improvement in HP not too long after the Kraken fight, as after that even you'll have a bunch of places to explore that weren't accessible before and is at that point when you start seeing more resistent monsters.

If I added them just after leave the floating contintent, it would have been a little harsh.

I also seriously planned (and in fact I have a half done patch about this) to give far more HP than I the Moar HP has already, high enough to make the characters feel powerful without finishing the battle in one turn or two, but then i thought (And I was pointed by a couple of friends that were playing it with me to see opinions) that making random encounters too long would be even worse than making them short, and I ended up agreeing with him, as  longer fights seem to be like a terrible thing worse than Hitler for a lot people...

I guess I need to find the sweet spot. The thing is, if I remember right, you didn't play this before, it's hard to point comparisons with the original game. In the original you could still kill anything without much effort, but at the same time you felt underpowered as hell if you weren't using the overused tactics that you see in almost every guide or video.


Thanks for the feedback. I'll wait to see what you say before I make any "serious" change.

Edit: I made a couple of "fast" patches if you want to try with different settings for the magic, alongisde the changes for the boomerangs:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kl2l2jqedtc1qgr/SemiHotFix.rar?dl=0

I personally would go with a combination of "Spell power nerf, Skill 8.ips" and an upgrade to monsters endurance.

You can ignore this if you don't feel like trying.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 04:44:35 pm by Maeson »
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magictrufflez

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #50 on: May 31, 2015, 01:01:14 am »
I probably should've guessed the "powers of 2" rule for the skill level advancement--in that case, I think you're right and changing spellpower might be the better route.  Then again, I don't know how the rest of the calculations work---which also probably acounts for my (lack of) understanding about the stat boost effects

I was about Lvl 18 for everyone when I fought Kraken.  Hyne was difficult, but his spells were hitting for ~200 damage, which was much more reasonable, while still being difficult.  This is why I was so surprised when Kraken pretty much wiped me out.  I only brought it up because there aren't any opportunities to get "next level" equipment after defeating Hyne, since 90% of the world is underwater.  I guess the only thing I could've done differently was change classes and use carpace armor, but if I estimated the damage conversions right, I would've probably still been close to 1-shotted anyway.

I guess my complaining is just a result of not understanding the complete damage formula for magic, but something was definitely very different between Kraken and Hyne!  I'll keep plowing forward, as I think I found my party setup for awhile---I'm enjoying parts of the game, but some parts are just kind of meh for me (the plot so far seems kind of weak to me).  I think your patch has made the experience much more enjoyable so far however, and I'll let you know if any more "out-of-place" difficulty jumps pop out for me

Maeson

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #51 on: May 31, 2015, 03:23:45 am »
Don't worry too much about not knowing how it works, it's only natural, it's your first time! I wasn't expecting it.

Now I know why the difference in Kraken between me and you, I was around level 22/23 each time I went to fight him.
The monsters in that cave give decent exp so I usually spend 20 minutes "training", as you can heal yourself in the temple near the cave.

I'll take a look at Kraken's Int and skill, maybe nerfing his stats is a good way to go about this because probably more people would go directly to him instead of leveling up a little.

About bosses, what do you think about their HP as for now? Are they okay?

The game's plot is very thin, a little more involved than in the first game (And makes a little more sense, lol), but a lot less than Final Fantasy II, or IV on the Super Nintendo, games that came before and after it.

I personally don't mind, because I usually see Rpg's in two flavors, the ones that you play for story, and the ones you play for gameplay itself, and this one is for me in the latter group.

It's nice if you find a game that do both, thing is if you expect both in every game you'll be pretty disappointed very often. At least is the way I see it of course...

And please, if you want keep giving feedback, go right ahead.

EDIT - Okay, this is a little ridiculous: Hyne's skill is 99, and Kraken's is 60. Hyne's Int is 85, Kraken's, 105.

There shouldn't be that much difference. I'll lower Kraken's int to 85 too. The only other factor that may provoke this is Kraken's level, I'll drop it too.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 03:53:49 am by Maeson »
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STARWIN

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #52 on: May 31, 2015, 01:13:00 pm »
It sounds to me that the bosses that were dangerous in the original game still are. If I remember correctly, those were
Spoiler:
Big Rat, Kraken, Garuda
and a bunch of nasty endgame bosses.

Technically, of course, you aren't limited to /8 /16 and such, but it is an easy change. Anything else requires either finding free space from the ROM (it has barely any space that is obviously free) or being lucky and doing a certain trick (which requires reading code for a suitable calculation that already happens to exist somewhere). But if you can balance the other numbers (INT,SPI,opponent SKILL,opponent LV,spell power) well, the easy change is sufficient. The only potential issue is that summon magic now gets a massive boost as skill goes up (as the original had such a powerful formula to begin with, and you are editing the weakest part of it to much stronger).

What do you think about Capacity points? Does that mechanic serve any purpose or is it possibly harmful, even?

Maeson

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #53 on: May 31, 2015, 01:53:37 pm »
There are several bosses that are pretty intimdating, most of them because of their magic spells.

About the summon magic, certainly is more powerful and it will always be more powerful (Unless you directly put the spell power to 0, and even the it stays quite strong); and as it gets more skill level the higher it gets.

Although to be fair, it starts very weak until you get a good skill level.

It's something that bugs me quite a bit, and I would like to make summon use the same formula as normal magic, because square intentionally made "normal" magic bad on purpose both with the formula and the insintence of making spells divide it's damage by the number of targets, which baffles me to no end, dividing bad damage between monsters is just even a bigger waste of time. And healing magic is really underwhelming originally.

That's why magictrufflez sees magic so strong: I tried to put it at the same level, more or less.

Summon should be a little more powerful because, for one part, using it with a conjurer/evoker is random and the payoff should be bigger when it works, and because both summoners and evokers only have one spell per level instead of three, and less MP, but one thing is having  more damage and the other is becoming the only good spell caster worth a damn in the original game...

On the other hand, under normal conditions, you usually don't need to be more than, let's say, level 55 tops to beat my hack (And that's counting you're grinding quite a bit, as I've been able to beat it with lvl 44 characters, not even using the most powerful classes), so summoning magic won't be broken in most playthroughs unless you decide to grind skill up to 99, but where is the point (or fun) in that...

It's when you go up to very high character and skill levels when damage skyrockets in this game, and because the game is not really made for such high levels, most of the changes I made were thinking around the 40ish - 60ish level mark.

Ahem... Sorry for the rant.

Capacity points are not terribly bad. I neved had that many problems with that feature, it ends up filling up to the maximum (255) and staying like that before I even notice, although some changes (Depending how big the differences between your actual class and your new class are) ask for a lot of capacity points...

I find the feature for the DS/Ios/others version far worse, where your character gets gimped for a number of fights with his/her stats reduced until you fight enough battles, and it creates this weird "tradition" of going to early game areas just to change classes and make fast fights to make it less time consuming, and that's when you can, as sometimes you're unable to go back during some parts.

Not a very good idea...
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 02:33:07 pm by Maeson »
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magictrufflez

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #54 on: June 02, 2015, 01:29:25 am »
I've gotten to the Ancient Ruins, with little/no problems now.  Although, I have been taking serious advantage of your improvements to the steal function (Protect Rings for all and Duel Triton Hammers/Dual Orichalcons before entering Salonia!)--im currently lvl 24/25 for everyone.  I saw Garuda was mentioned as being a more brutal boss, but I won't lie, nothing he threw at me hit nearly as hard as Kraken.  The spells he used hit me for ~500/600 damage, so he was difficult, but extremely fightable.

1 beef I really have with this game is the abundunce of dungeons that rely on my characters being minied.  I'm not sure if there's some special tactic I'm supposed to use in them, but I know I find them incredibly cheap.  I know you can't do much about it, but I needed to vent a bit, since I thought they were only an early game gimmick :(.

I have no idea if this is doable at all, but is it possible to set different jobs to acquire skill multipliers at different rates?  Like, the White Wiz might get one every 8 levels, but the hunter only gets one every 10?  or something like that?  I think if you can change how the multipliers accumulate between classes, it may solve the problem of how to weaken pure magic-users while still keeping the hybrid magic users viable.  Again, I'm not sure how the coding works, so I don't know if this is a possible fix or not

EDIT:  Oh, and I don't mind giving any input at all---I mean, I'm playing through the game aren't I?  You're the one who's doing all the hard work here lol

Maeson

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #55 on: June 02, 2015, 12:06:55 pm »
I'm happy to see that at least I didn't make Garuda some kind of brutal insult to the player, lol.

If you want some trivia, I made him f****** powerful by error and when I tested him you would see 9999 flying everywhere. I really didn't know what happened, until I discovered that the Monster Editor that you can download here is bugged, and it gives SUPER STATS to some monsters, Garuda being one of them.

I had to make every change for monsters with the hex editor (just like everything else, lol) because of that. Thank god they are easy to read.

Wait, you just went to Ancient Ruins before Salonia?!

You're supposed to go there some time after going to Salonia, although there's nothing wrong with risking to go there and get some equipment (Quite a few rpgs do that).

I'm happy to see that stealing is useful now, if you look at a guide, you'll see how underused it was :(.

What I don't know it's if I should change some items to appear at a later time (Those Triton Hammers are the most powerful weapon in the game, even if only Vikings are able to equip them).

What i'm sure is that if anyone spends some of his/her time trying to get equipment from monsters it will be rewarding as pretty much all of it is some of the best things in the game. Thing is that in the orignal game you get it so late that you usually don't enjoy it that much.

By the way, how is the enemy drop working? Was the HP boost after the Circle cave enough?

About the Mini dungeons, sometimes you need to stay mini, but you should try after going through the small doors/holes to go back to your original size, sometimes Mini is only needed to pass such hole/door, and you can continue with your normal size.
I got a little mad when I discovered that.

The thing with Mini is that you should use magic heavily to clear these places easier. That's one of the reasons I made the "Magic Expansion" Patch! Some classes get offensive spells, that, even when they are limited, you can support your main magic offensive character (if you have one) with your other character's spells.

For example the Hunter/Ranger has Ice1/2/3 which can come in handy for such places. It won't be as strong as a mage, but for the Mini Dungeons and places like those it works.

About the magic multiplier, maybe is doable but would take A LOT of work and someone that has true hacking skills.

As the game is right now, EVERYTHING uses those formulas. It's a bunch of numbers the game takes advantage of for different effects. The same happens with the physical hit multiplier. Characters, monsters, bosses... All use that too.

The only thing I can think of is changing the part of the formula that affects summon magic only, to make it similar to the normal magic, but I don't know how it works or where it's stored exactly.

But again, that's all me bitching from the vanilla game. In my hack normal magic and summon are much less separated in the damage cap, giving more damage to Summon without being so god damn broken.

At lvl 45, with both Warlock and Summoner jobs at 34 skill with their most powerful area spell :

Warlock does 2600/3600 with Meteor He does less damage, but he has more MP so he last far longer
Summoner does 3600/4600 with Bahamut He does more damage, but he has less MP so he should be used for hard fightes/bosses

At level 99/99 Warlock would do around 6500/8600 (Or 9000 if you're really lucky with the RNG) and Summoner clean 9999. But i don't think anyone would need to level up to 99 to beat this... In fact I don't know how long it would take.

If it needs some kind of rebalancing it could be enough changing spell power. Thing is that not only characters will suffer that change, but monsters and bosses will too (And some of them use summon-based attacks).

Lastly, I  may be the one making this, and while it was something I started doing for my own use, I still like to see what others think about it.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2015, 12:18:55 pm by Maeson »
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magictrufflez

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #56 on: June 05, 2015, 03:58:50 am »
I made it to roughly endgame yesterday (did a Eureka run to get the last classes and some equips/spells), so I'm about to settle in to power level a bit, because I'm getting beat up a bit too much.  Party is currently level 43.

One question I still have is regarding the Dark Swords.  They're listed as having the "dark element" in the readme, but is this an actual element in-game like Fire and Bolt, or does this just mean they kill "split" enemies easily?  I'm curious because I'm debating whether to duel Holy Lances or Masamunes with my ninjas endgame, but I have a feeling Holy would be a more useful element than Darkness to take into the final dungeons.  Unless Ninjas kind of stink as I level them, and maybe I'll go to a Dragoon/MKnight setup instead.

Gameplay balance has been pretty even for awhile now.  I've personally tried to steal/farm high end equips when they become available, and no encounters have 1-shot me since Kraken.  Although I haven't been using most of the classes you tweaked (I've been pretty consistently using 2 physical and 2 magic-based characters), the moarHP patch has seemed like the right amount of balance for most regular enemies, but bosses seem to be made of glass most of the time.  With the exception of Bahamut, which I admittedly fought at a higher level than I think most players do, most bosses are not lasting very long.  Since many don't hit back hard enough at this point, even Leviathan was a bit of a joke.  Regular encounters are acually pretty well balanced, and the last few dugeons have actually felt like final dungeons as far as the encounters go.

Outside of the general easiness of bosses since Kraken, some thoughts for any future changes you may want to make (although please take my lack of knowledge as to how the coding works into account):

--As far as class balancing, now that I've seen the initial Ninja/Sage classes, I think you've done a pretty good job with the ones I've played so far.  That said, the game is set up in a way that a player like me (who tends to go for straight damage optimization) will always pick out a 2-fighter (1 dedicated hitter and 1 variable, depending on the situation), 2 mage (Black and White--Summoning seems way too variable until you get a summoner, and by then I was pretty invested in Black magic, which is far more versatile).  There really wasn't much reason for me to swap classes a lot unless I just got a new stronger version of the roles I had been using, or a dungeon required me to use one (Cave of Darkness).  Maybe if there was some way to require advanced classes to have a skill level in previous ones before changing to them, that could aleviate this, but I'm not sure if that's possible in the coding.

--Stealing is amazingly useful post-Water Cave, but I kind of feel like equipment access might be a bit of an issue from an overpowering perspective, especially late game.  On the Floating Continent, it seemed like I was underequiped, but I've felt pretty overpowered equipment-wise since the Water Cave.  Part of this is because of the access to weapons I have no business getting (Triton hammers, Orichalcons, or later Masamunes/Holy Lances/Excaliburs).  Maybe by re-jigging some of the steal lists in combination with some of the shops could alleviate this.  Especially since it feel kind of ridiculous to have multiple copies of Legendary equipment like the Masamune lol.  I'm not sure if there are only a set number of stealing sets you can give to monster groups in the code, but it could be worthwhile to put some stealable equips (lower end of course) in earlier dungeons, and tone down the rarity of some of the equips stolen on later mobs.  Obviously adjusting shop lists can help too (Letting me buy Triton Hammers seems a bit nuts)---I'm not sure if it's feasible to add new equipment as well, but it might be something to consider.

Not really much else has stood out as needing some level of improvement--dungeons are pretty much a heavy grind after you get your airship back, so you probably don't need to change much as far as regular enemies.  The moarHP patch seems to hit the sweet spot in this respect, and the drop rates are pretty reasonable as far as I can tell---just maybe some tweaks to what equipment you can access at certain points might improve some of the unnerving inventory moments I've had (I have 5 Holy Lances and ~5 Masamunes right now lol), and make those special pieces of equipment a bit more meaningful.  I'm going to try and run the standard 2 Ninja, 2 Sage party for engame (Ninjas might change, Sages are definitely staying, with all their MPs and optimized spell lists), but I need to build some skill levels and character levels first before that last march starts...

Maeson

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #57 on: June 05, 2015, 05:26:27 am »
I'll put things in spoilers to keep it less MASSIVE TEXT WALL

Dark Element-

Spoiler:
Dark Element is just like Fire, Ice, Holy... The thing is that not many enemies are resistant or weak to elements in this game.

Dark Element does have an advantage over "splitting" enemies because, for one part, they are coded to be weak to Dark, and two, because as weapons are coded, if they have an usability group AND Dark Element at the same time, they become strong against those enemies and they don't divide.

It's a weird way to go about it but it works, lol. About what you want to use, both would do okay, if I recall correctly.

But that's one change I'm been thinking, as the original game doesn't make much sense about weaknesses and resistances.

Steal input
Spoiler:
The stealable equipment is something I thought about quite a bit too, since I discovered how to do it. My intention was for giving access to them before it was too late, as usually in the game you get those weapons at the very last moment.

I agree that I need to look into it and see which enemies may have what. About adding low-level equipment in the floating continent... It's something I thought, and I really want to do it, but the space for everything is really, really small.

You only have a handful of groups for ALL THE MONSTERS, and you give a group to each one, so it's tricky. I need to take care about how I do it.

The Triton Hammer in the shop is something that happens in the original game. But in the original game it was LAME, so... Yeah, I need to change some things. I also wanted to change the price of some equipment, like the Bio Spell, which is 10.000 to something more as his power is too big for such ammount of Gil.

Changing Classes
Spoiler:
About the classes, FF3 is not really a game where you should change classes often, unless you want to, of course, it's more of a "Choose what you want and keep developing their skills to see them shine, but you can change if you don't feel okay with that party setup".

My hack was made with the attempt of making all classes good enough to play through the entire thing.
I made playthroughs with Warlock/M.Knight/Viking/Shaman, and others with, for example, Bard/Hunter/Geomancer/Shaman, and those classes are supposed to be terrible in the vanilla game (Well, if you're following a guide, the writer may say directly "Avoid everything that is not Ninja/Sage", but in my hack all classes are viable and Ninja/Sage are nerfed in some regards).

You just use whatever you want. Classes are for giving a choice, not to force you to use something in particular (Except in a couple of moments...) or forcing you to keep changing. There's also the fact that for future playthroughs (For those that want to, of course) you can go with a different party and get a different experience.

About Black Magic veing more versatile... Well, that's the idea, as Summoning is about raw power if you use a Summoner, or a weird mix of raw power and buffing if you use an Evoker.

About putting a skill level needed, there is no such feature for that in the game, only for Base Level. And adding a "You need X Skill level for Y Job" seems like forcing grinding to the players, which I'm not very interested with... At least not in this game, of course.

About Monsters
Spoiler:
I'm happy to see that normal battles are okay, those are actually the hardest to think for me.

About bosses, i'm with you, they need more HP and power, and I always felt like that.
But I didn't want to go overboard without someone trying before, because then, "Kraken/BigRat may happen again".

I think the point where I should start is after Kraken, and improve the bosses after him.
Do you remember which ones felt more and less "weak"? To give me an idea of what would be the best spot.

I'll wait to see what you say about the last bosses and roll with the input you give me in this regard.


Thank you for all the info. All this will help me to develop a 1.2 Version.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 05:31:58 am by Maeson »
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magictrufflez

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #58 on: June 09, 2015, 03:02:55 am »
After plowing through some powerleveling this weekend, I finished off the game today.  I don't have a lot of substantive suggestions about endgame, because outside the stuff I said about being able to farm (supposedly) legendary equipment, I don't have much beef with how the final areas played.  Everything felt like a final dungeon, the bosses still felt like they died faster than they should, but that may have been because I made sure to set my party up for maximum damage output.  My party was ~lvl 55 with skill levels in the 30-mid 40's---Ninja, MKnight, 2 Sages.

Outside of what I've already said, I do have 1 last suggestion for a tweak.  I liked the idea of running causing your characters defense to drop, and early on, this drop to 0 defense wasn't a very big deal.  However, as the game progresses, the punishment for trying to run grew exponentially excessive, to the point where if you ran into a mob of 4-6 enemies, just 1 round of trying to run would wipe out the whole party.

There's also something I don't think you intended where if less than 4 characters are trying to run, ALL characters have their defense drop to 0.  For example, at one point I had a party of Vik/Thief/Blk/Whtmgm, and tried running with just my thief from a battle with ~6 enemies in the Ancient Ruins, having the others do other things (I also assumed the Thief's "Escape" command gave me a guaranteed chance to run).  Unfortunately, everyone's defense was dropped, not just my thief's, and I proceeded to take a total pounding while my thief promptly failed to run.  After about 2-3 rounds of that, I was pretty much dead.  Needless to say, I stopped running from anything after this.

My thought is maybe to have the defense drop be something like half or 1/3 if you can do it.  This way running lategame is still somewhat useful, especially in some parts of the final dungeons where encounters are more brutal and the floors are pretty lengthy (the Ancient Ruins is also a great example of a place that could use a consistent run mechanic, as you don't have access to Dark Swords, but encounter a ton of "split" enemies).  Giving 1 class a dedicated 100% run command could be really helpful too--IMO Bard would be great for this if you could swing it.

Overall, I liked what you did with the hack (although FF3NES is not going to break the top half of my personal FF rankings itself).  There were some unintended consequences of changes you made, but I think with a few more tweaks, especially regarding equipment access and the run mechanic, this would definitely be my definitive mod for this game.  I liked the idea you put out about making more use of the elemental strengths/weaknesses---it could be a great way to balance out some of the more powerful classes (ie Vikings have heavy hitting power, but their weapons all have elemental properties, something like that)

I'm definitely giving it a positive review--now if we can just get someone to rewrite the plot, so I can enjoy that too lol

/endtextwall

Maeson

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #59 on: June 09, 2015, 04:01:49 am »
I'll give the last bosses a little more HP too, then, as in my playthroughs with levels 40/45 I felt they were a little short too (although some of them rather brutal with the difference in HP compared to your level 55, lol).

It happened with most bosses really.

Well I... didn't touch the running. That's how the vanilla game works...
Sometimes is a big hassle or a direct Game Over, but that one is on Squaresoft, lol.

That's why is something I managed to change! I wanted to keep it as a small surprise, but I guess it's okay.
Right now I made it so you don't lose defense as you try to run, I still have to see if I apply some reduction, or if I leave it like that. I need to experiment more with it.

Thief has Escape, which is supposed to be a 100% run success, maybe I could squeeze the command to another class (Depending if I can remove another command without problems). As you say Bard would work well, even more if you think about Edward from IV... That spoony bard, what fame he gave to the class!

Thanks to all your input I will be making changes to the different parts we're been talking about and develop a 1.2 version.
Some changes like stealable items will take a little longer to decide where to put them, or if I should remove some of them.

Something I really don't want to do is give stealable equipment to bosses, because it would force players to have a thief and they may don't want to, so it's a little tricker to think about. Maybe emporwering monsters that have better equipment (like the Behemoths, more or less)... I'll see.

I'll ad you to the credits for all the time you put into giving feedback.
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