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Author Topic: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)  (Read 13603 times)

chillyfeez

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Re: Maeson's Final Fantasy III (Famicom)
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2015, 01:12:02 pm »
Thank you. Honestly, sharing things I make is not my strong suit, i'm always afraid of it not being that great.

And I know there isn't going to be that much interest, if people where interested in FF3j, there should have been any kind of hack similar to this already (Although that's maybe because there was no much info to go with) like the tons of hacks for FF I or IV, but after all, this started as a personal thing made for my own use, if it ends up making someone else's day the better!

What I don't know if it's worthy of being uploaded to Romhacking.net. I guess I'll wait to see what happens.

I had fun looking into this, and i've learned a bit of how things work or what I could do to make the classes more fun to play with the limits I have, and I took a lot of notes in case someone tries to do something with this game.

Sorry, I just saw this and felt the need to respond. I know it's a little belated...

The fact that there isn't much documented doesn't really mean there's no interest. Sometimes research into a particular game just takes one or a few people to jumpstart it all - and with any Final Fantasy game, the interest will surely be there.

You cite the amount of FFIV hacks that are out there, but the truth is, a lot of what is known about FFIV only really surfaced within the last three years. I mean the locations of party and enemy stats and item info, etc was known, but doing anything large scale with it was a nightmare (FFIV is completely amateur hour in the way it's programmed - seriously). Then PinkPuff started working on FF4kster, and the ease of editing that provided led curious minds like Grimoire LD and myself to research a lot of previously unknown information, and then folks like Vivify93 and Rodimus Primal started doing full-scale localizations... My point is, interest within the ROM hacking community can snowball pretty quickly.

I mean, let's face it, this is just a hobby. We're not allowed to make money off of ROM hacking, for obvious reasons, so we only do it because of the intrinsic fun of exploring and messing with the games... So there's no good reason to hide your projects away for fear of reception.
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Maeson

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2015, 02:08:52 pm »
To STARWIN:

The thing is that, as far as I can see, the only real difference I've been able to see is that while there are two "sets" of values, the ones used for weapons, and the ones used for armors, it only affects the draining hp effect, the rest of the things work perfectly.

If you give a weapon an armor's value, it will still be used as a weapon, it will give you the correct attack, accuracy, bonus stats, it will spread the status effects, use the element to improve the attack... Just like if you were using a weapon value.

the same goes for armor everything as intended, that's why it surprised me so much how this little thing that isn't even that common is connected to the usability table/values.

I didn't see any differences at all. besides the Draining Life, while playing (And I had to restart the game a couple of times with different classes and items).

----------
To chillyfeez:

Well, after seeing all kinds of hacks for FF 1, 2 (Although it was for the GBA port), 4, 5, 6... It kind of felt strange that 3 was the only one that didn't have that much to offer in the hacking comunity.

I didn't want to say anything bad against the romhacks and mods that are developed for FF ! / IV.
In fact I love the games and there are some works that amaze me about how far some people can get, and what they can do, but I meant that I find interesting to see how much work go towards those games and this one was still pretty unknown.

It just seemed strange to me because, as you say, it's Final Fantasy, not some unknown RPG...

Obviously this things are made as a hobby or the wish of wanting to change things. That's actually why I started to mess with this one, if it wasn't for DataCrystal's notes I probably wouldn't gone very far in the first place.

What reminds me, what could be the best way of sharing the (most probably mediocre) notes I'm doing? I would need to clean them up and all that, and even then it's mostly simple stuff, but...
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chillyfeez

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2015, 02:30:07 pm »
You probably wanna check out slick productions.
Actually, never looked for it before, but there seems to be a ff3 world map editor there ("ff3 hackster").
Anyway, the slick forum is basically a one-stop square RPG hacking haven. I don't think there is a page there specifically devoted to ff3, but I'm sure you can find an appropriate place there to share your findings. If you dig, you might even find some stuff about ff3 that isn't documented anywhere else.
A warning: getting an account registered at slick (in order to actually post on the forum) can be a pain in the ass, because there are some obscure questions about some obscure games you are asked to answer to verify your humanity.
If you get a question you can't answer, reload the page, there is a pool of about ten questions and it asks (I think) three of them at random. If you get the one about the color of the website, answer "purple." They're talking about the main site, not the forum.
Ongoing project: "Final Fantasy IV: A Threat From Within"

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Maeson

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2015, 03:18:36 pm »
Perfect, then. Once this is mostly finished I'll clean the notes and see where I can put them.

Looking at the docs they have for FF I, I think i'll need to expand a little more my notes to add things like weapon sprites/animations/palette, which I didn't take seeing as my idea was mostly "gameplay based", but it is a pretty easy thing to write down and I don't have a problem doing it.

Although I played with it a little, and it's fun to see pretty much anything with the boomerang/FullMoon animation.
I even glitched the game once and the character kept moonwalking across the screen for the eternity.

Thanks for the info, and for the advice about registering. I'll see how much of a nerd I am when I get to that!
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Maeson

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2015, 10:54:34 am »
Sorry of not saying anything in all this time, but I was kind of busy and most the free time I had I wanted to use it in the hack to finish it as soon as I could by testplaying, fixing, changing and adding a little extras.


I believe i'm ready to ulpoad this to RHDN but I have a couple of questions:

Should I make a "News update" about his, or is not big/important enough for that?

I want to add STARWIN in the credits for the valuable help he offered me, but, how do I add more people to the submission? Do I have to add him after doing it? With which type of contribution should I add him?

« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 11:04:14 am by Maeson »
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Grimoire LD

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2015, 11:11:35 am »
Sorry of not saying anything in all this time, but I was kind of busy and most the free time I had I wanted to use it in the hack to finish it as soon as I could by testplaying, fixing, changing and adding a little extras.


I believe i'm ready to ulpoad this to RHDN but I have a couple of questions:

Should I make a "News update" about his, or is not big/important enough for that?

I want to add STARWIN in the credits for the valuable help he offered me, but, how do I add more people to the submission? Do I have to add him after doing it? With which type of contribution should I add him?


I would say go ahead and create a News Update for it. This isn't some small hack, or a graphic change, this looks to be a pretty extensive hack of the game! As for the other questions... I'm not sure myself.

STARWIN

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2015, 05:22:51 pm »
I want to add STARWIN in the credits for the valuable help he offered me, but, how do I add more people to the submission? Do I have to add him after doing it? With which type of contribution should I add him?

Don't worry about that part. This site is pretty flexible so you can edit details like that later anyway.

Maeson

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2015, 05:48:03 pm »
Don't worry about that part. This site is pretty flexible so you can edit details like that later anyway.

Oh, so you can edit later? Perfect! Thanks.
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magictrufflez

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2015, 02:22:29 am »
As for interest in your hack, I can confirm I, for one am very interested.  FF3 is actually the only FF I've never even played before (partly because I'm always slightly suspicious of any game where I hear people only talking about how great the class system is and not much else), but you've done more than enough work here to convince me to give it a go!  I'm playing through a few other hacks at the moment, but I'll definitely pop in from time to time with feedback if you'd like Maeson

Also, one question--are there any known bugs/issues I should know about?  I went through the readme, but I may have missed them.  I'm planning on going all out and using all your balancing patches and the moar HP patch.  Not sure about the pallette ones yet, however

Maeson

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2015, 03:59:15 am »
First, thanks for showing interest!

While it's true that FFIII is remembered by it's class system, I personally think it's the best FF for NES (If we don't count hacks, of course). Visually looks pretty good for the system, the music while not upbeat and catchy as some of the most well known NES soundtracks are, I think it fits very well, is very melodic, with a serene vibe in most of it's tracks.

There isn't much int he way of the story, but that's okay because you have a lot of freedom to explore. It's also one of the games that added a lot of things to the series, like Moogles, classes like Dragoon or Dark Knight, summons, multiple overworlds and more.

I did like four and a half test playthroughs with different classes and repeating places with different partys trying to get all the problems I could see and fix them.

As far as glitches or bugs, no, not really. I didn't find anything that can be considered one of those. But if you find something weird with my hack please, tell me and I'll try to look into it (Although most of the stuff I did wasn't very advanced so it shouldn't happen).

Although I want to warn you, and anyone that wants to play FFIII (My hack or vanilla, either way).

DON'T USE SAVE FILE/STATE EDITORS FOR ADDING CLASSES TO THE LIST. The save file will corrupt itself, and will f**k up you progress by glitching in two ways:

1º, If you added the classes before leaving the first "overworld" of the game, there will be an event glitch and you will not be able to continue because the game skipped a chunk of the story and you'll have to restart.

2º, If you added the classes after leaving the first "overworld" of the game, and go back to the first overworld (either or items or the several optional things you can do there), when you go back to the normal world, there will be an event reset and you will be sent back to a prior state of it and you'll be stuck forever in that area.

There's also another events that will skip, like when you talk to the Crystals after defeating bosses. So please, bear that in mind. The save file/state editors modify something that it also counts as an event checker, besides the class list.

The half test playhtrough was because of that problem, lol.

By the way, if someone is curious about importing their save files into this hack, you can. You'll need to remove all the pieces of equipment of all the characters, change their classes(as in, Knight->Onion Kid->Knight, if you are going to use the same class), and re-equip everything for all the changes to have effect, though, and if you want to go back to the original, just do the same while running the original version.

You can give feedback if you want, i'm unexperienced with these kind of things, so if you see something that can have it's balance improved, go and say it, as seeing others opinions can help to make a better thing, and knowing how I am, i'm sure I went too far in a few places, or maybe I had to go further in others.

Thankfully the idea of giving a bunch of patches was just for cases in which you don't want everything, or you could do it without something. It also helps making things faster and easier to check.

The palettes are a tough one, because there are not many colors to choose from, and you can't edit each class for itself, it's an entire group of none, so getting a color that works for everybody is kind of difficult.

I think i'll add more colors in the future, if changes have to be made.

Maybe I have to redo the main post and add things...
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 04:36:45 am by Maeson »
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Spooniest

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2015, 07:41:39 am »
This looks interesting, but I'm right in the middle of playing through FF3 for PC. Perhaps sometime later?

magictrufflez

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2015, 07:49:15 am »
No need to worry about the save state editting stuff---I personally try to avoid using save states generally, and try to play through the game naturally (with only a few exceptions--FF4 rare drops come to mind).  This is part of why I tend to wait for comprehensive hacks like yours anymore before I tackle (or retackle) older games--most of them have a metric ton of problems I think I'm too old to deal with anymore. 

I'll just keep my eyes peeled for anything that doesn't seem like its working the way it's supposed to and let you know when I come across it!

Maeson

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2015, 08:06:20 am »
This looks interesting, but I'm right in the middle of playing through FF3 for PC. Perhaps sometime later?

Just give it a go when and if you want, easy as that, if it's not now, whenever you feel it, because playing the same game twice at the same time can get pretty boring.

How the PC version holds compared to the DS?

No need to worry about the save state editting stuff---I personally try to avoid using save states generally, and try to play through the game naturally (with only a few exceptions--FF4 rare drops come to mind).  This is part of why I tend to wait for comprehensive hacks like yours anymore before I tackle (or retackle) older games--most of them have a metric ton of problems I think I'm too old to deal with anymore. 

I'll just keep my eyes peeled for anything that doesn't seem like its working the way it's supposed to and let you know when I come across it!

I just warn in case someone tries it. I was annoyed when that happened to me during one of the test playthroughs, imagine if it was a "normal" one.

The same happens to me, sometimes looking back at those games that were amazing back then but now you know they have issues here and there hurt a little the feeling of playing them again.

For example since I discovered the Mod of Balance by ludmeister for FF1 and 2 for the GBA is my go to version of the games.

I hope at least you have a little fun with this.
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Spooniest

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2015, 08:49:10 am »
Just give it a go when and if you want, easy as that, if it's not now, whenever you feel it, because playing the same game twice at the same time can get pretty boring.

How the PC version holds compared to the DS?

It works out pretty good! I still wish there were more Phoenix Downs in the game :/ But you can't have it all.

Kudos on your work!

Kea

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2015, 02:21:15 pm »
Hello! I was the one who put up the FF3 Data Crystal page; at the time, it represented the sum total of my knowledge of the ROM (sans doc on individual items/weapons). I'd been working on a balance mod of my own and had gotten pretty far, but real life intervened and I never managed to finish it. I'm stoked to see such an complete hack of FF3 out here - great stuff! I haven't been active recently or else I would have been able to offer help when you were starting out, but it looks like you managed pretty well as it is. I'll definitely try this mod out when I have some free time.

One thing I should point out: you don't necessarily have to work with the existing class usability groups. There's a few unused groups you can edit, plus there's enough empty space to add 14 totally new groups without running up against other data.

Something I did with my unreleased hack was to add new books, lances and bows by replacing weapons that weren't really necessary (Wooden Arrows, Rune Staff, one of the claws, the Hammer, etc), just to give more variety to those classes' weapon selection. It's something to consider.

Maeson

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2015, 03:27:59 pm »
Oh , it was you who put the info? I owe you everything then! Seriously, thank you.

About the usability groups, yes, you're totally right. The thing is that as I was developing the 1.0 (Well, the first release in any case) version I ended up using already created groups because of my lack of knowledge (I'm really new with this) and because I wanted to leave free space (at least I realized that) in case I wanted to make magic usability groups.

Truth is, as it is now it's not perfect (And i'm on my way to change it for the better), but i've been looking into it, in fact earlier today I was writing in the notes I'm making how it works and it's easier than I thought when I started:

Each group of 3 bytes, like 3F FF FF has to be seen as a binary. In this case, 0011 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111.

The first two numbers are not used as far as I know, the rest reads in reverse order compared to base stats, for example:

Ninja, Sage, Summoner, Shaman, Warlock, Bard, Conjurer, M.Knight, Black Belt, Viking, Dragoon, Geomancer, Scholar, Thief, Knight, Hunter, Red Mage, Black Mage, White Mage, Monk, Fighter and Onion Kid.

In this case, it's value 00 and will be able to be used by everybody.

Your last part is really interesting to me. How did you change an item's type? Did you just edit the battle sprite and usabilty group, or it was a "total" transformation to another weapon type (With icon on the item list and all that).

Because something i've been looking into is to create some spells for certain classes in the future, yet i'm kind of lost in that regard. The game needs the item to be magic so I can put it on the characters' spell list, but I don't know how to do it.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 03:38:36 pm by Maeson »
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Kea

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2015, 04:08:50 pm »
To change a weapon's type completely, I indeed edited the weapon's battle sprite/palette and usability index. In additon, I edited the weapon's text data, which is stored at $3CC3A.

All of the text data in the A.W.Jackson / N.Corlett is stored uncompressed, but in order to accommodate multiple-letter characters, item icons and text command codes it's not stored in ASCII. Instead they use these hex codes. You can edit the hex code which corresponds to the weapon icon and change it to whatever other icon you want.

Some other things you might find useful:
-Partial chart of what shops sell, their offset in the ROM, and the offset of their pointer
-Partial list of chest content offsets
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 04:15:34 pm by Kea »

Maeson

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2015, 05:35:13 pm »
I'll share too what I've been writing down:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eojgju74atri84y/Hacking%20Notes%20clean%201%2C1.rar?dl=0

Most probably you have everything i have in a less amateurish way, but just in case.

Chest offsets is something i havent looked at yet!

About the items... I've been able to change the icon and all that jazz, so one thing less. Now if I knew how to modify what the game think the item is, or point to another place...
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Leviathan Mist

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2015, 05:44:22 pm »
Hey, just wanted to point out that I like these changes you made, but I wanted to throw in a suggestion. In the untranslated version, the job selection screen shows the skill level of every job at once on it. When the game was originally translated, the translators decided to remove that in favor of more character space available for each job name, so you now have to change jobs and then look individually at your stats page just to see what skill level that job is. There should be an optional patch that adds back the job level listing on the job selection screen from the original Japanese version. I know that character space is an issue, but I'd gladly sacrifice a few extra letters at the end of some job names to be able to see my skill level progress on all of my jobs at once in the English translated version of the game. I feel this becomes more important in a mod like this, as many more jobs become useful and you're not just focusing on the same exact ones for each character anymore. Also considering the fact that formulas have been changed to make skill level more effective.
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Maeson

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Re: Final Fantasy III Maeson Mix (Famicom)
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2015, 02:33:33 am »
I could take a look on it, although I don't know if I have enough capabilities to do it.

I guess I'll start comparing the translated and untranslated versions.
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