News: 11 March 2016 - Forum Rules
Current Moderators - DarkSol, KingMike, MathOnNapkins, Azkadellia, Danke

Author Topic: Final Fantasy IV Namingway Edition (updated to Version 1.86)  (Read 91153 times)

Rodimus Primal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 838
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy IV Namingway Edition (updated to Version 1.85)
« Reply #440 on: October 08, 2018, 07:26:24 pm »
After really thinking it through, it makes the most sense to just ditch the extra spacing for the key items Whisperweed and Sand Pearl. The only time it will look strange is when selecting the item in the Fat Chocobo menu since the pointing hand is on the second character instead of the first. Every other place it's fine. It will render as Whisprweed and SandPearl respectively.

With this extra space I could also change Gysahl to GysahlGrn if everyone is fine with it. Again, it only looks weird in the Fat Chocobo menu.

The Package is going to become the C.Signet item and will be called a Carnelian Signet in dialogue, similar to the PSP and 3D translations.

I am also changing the Clerics to Epopts, and Edge's Pin and Image to S.Bind and Mirage respectively. G.Needle will also be GoldNeedle.

Orochi Kusanagi

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy IV Namingway Edition (updated to Version 1.85)
« Reply #441 on: October 08, 2018, 08:00:58 pm »
Those changes sound mighty fine to me!

yetisyny

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 38
  • yetisyny a.k.a. General Public
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy IV Namingway Edition (updated to Version 1.85)
« Reply #442 on: October 08, 2018, 09:52:44 pm »
After really thinking it through, it makes the most sense to just ditch the extra spacing for the key items Whisperweed and Sand Pearl. The only time it will look strange is when selecting the item in the Fat Chocobo menu since the pointing hand is on the second character instead of the first. Every other place it's fine. It will render as Whisprweed and SandPearl respectively.

With this extra space I could also change Gysahl to GysahlGrn if everyone is fine with it. Again, it only looks weird in the Fat Chocobo menu.

The Package is going to become the C.Signet item and will be called a Carnelian Signet in dialogue, similar to the PSP and 3D translations.

I am also changing the Clerics to Epopts, and Edge's Pin and Image to S.Bind and Mirage respectively. G.Needle will also be GoldNeedle.

Sounds perfect to me too, I agree with Orochi Kusanagi. Good job! Yeah, you should use all the names that you said in that particular post, I agree with all of the things quoted above 100%. No objections from me! Great work! I don’t really care if the Fat Chocobo has a cursor on the 2nd character instead of the 1st for some items, I don’t think anyone would even notice that, not even me and I am kind of a perfectionist but I don’t have any problem with that. Great decisions there, all of those in that post!

Rodimus Primal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 838
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy IV Namingway Edition (updated to Version 1.85)
« Reply #443 on: October 10, 2018, 12:42:04 pm »
Good. I'm glad you are fine with it. I am running into spacing issues with the text so I rewrote many of the lines surrounding those key items using Mato's site, the PSP, and 3D translations as a guide. Hopefully it all fits as intended.

EDIT- So I figured out how to change messages in Events. Since Bank 3 has more space for messages, I expanded the scene with Edward and Anna's ghost to closer match the original Japanese based on the DS and Mato's translation notes. Doing so allowed me more space to rewrite the beginning with the King of Baron and Baigan, again matching Mato's translation notes. I've also altered when Kain and Cecil arrive at Mist. This was all done to make the Package into the Carnelian Signet.

In changing the Clerics to Epopts and Twin Harp to Whisperweed, many lines were changed to reflect this. (again to better match the Japanese too) I also updated the dancer's message at Kaipo.

It is impossible to properly fit Flan Princess properly in 8 tiles even with all the squished tiles I have. Flan will fit in 3 tiles, leaving 5 for the word Princess. It would fit IF I had more space available for the font to add more tiles. None of the current letters fit. However, if the abbreviation is fine with everyone, I CAN make it FlanPrinss or FlanPrincs but that look terrible IMO. There's FlanRoyal, Flan Lady, Flan Girl, or maybe Flanpress?

I forgot how to alter the maps to better hide the hidden passages, and without the help of another hacker (Bahamut Zero), I'm not sure I can at this point. If someone else knows how to and wants to contribute to Namingway Edition, making it a separate patch, I will gladly distribute it in Namingway Edition. Maybe even make a "Hard Mode" version of Namingway Edition.

As for now, I am going to get this ready for an update that's long been overdue.

October 11, 2018, 12:19:02 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Okay, so after carefully thinking about it, and since other monsters are abbreviated this way, I can also make it Flan P., Flan Pr. or even Flan HRH (Her Royal Highness). We have K. Eblan, Q Eblan, and Lamia Q so it might work if everyone knows what they are. All in all, a Pink Puff still works as it's name. Just calling it Flan P. takes away the charm of the original name with the spacing available.

October 11, 2018, 07:19:33 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Version 1.86 is now ready for download.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 11:03:19 pm by Rodimus Primal »

Chronosplit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1161
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy IV Namingway Edition (updated to Version 1.86)
« Reply #444 on: October 12, 2018, 02:04:58 am »
Thanks much!  I'm definitely going to be giving this a new playthrough.

yetisyny

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 38
  • yetisyny a.k.a. General Public
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy IV Namingway Edition (updated to Version 1.85)
« Reply #445 on: October 12, 2018, 07:36:07 am »
It is impossible to properly fit Flan Princess properly in 8 tiles even with all the squished tiles I have. Flan will fit in 3 tiles, leaving 5 for the word Princess. It would fit IF I had more space available for the font to add more tiles. None of the current letters fit. However, if the abbreviation is fine with everyone, I CAN make it FlanPrinss or FlanPrincs but that look terrible IMO. There's FlanRoyal, Flan Lady, Flan Girl, or maybe Flanpress?

Okay, so after carefully thinking about it, and since other monsters are abbreviated this way, I can also make it Flan P., Flan Pr. or even Flan HRH (Her Royal Highness). We have K. Eblan, Q Eblan, and Lamia Q so it might work if everyone knows what they are. All in all, a Pink Puff still works as it's name. Just calling it Flan P. takes away the charm of the original name with the spacing available.

Version 1.86 is now ready for download.

Nice to see the new download! Thanks! As far as those options, Flan Girl is good, it is a pun. In the original Japanese the name for that enemy is also a pun, “Purin Purinsesu”, or “Pudding Princess”, with the first “Purin” meaning “Pudding” and the second “Purin” being part of “Purinsesu” which is just “Princess” from English. In the spirit of the original Japanese name being a pun, Flan Girl is a good pun, and you said that you are able to fit that with the available tiles. I suggest this although it is not technically the canonical name. It is definitely in the spirit of how the Japanese name for that enemy is written. Japanese people love their puns, at least, judging by comparing the Japanese and English versions of many anime and video games, where the Japanese versions are full of puns and wordplay and the English versions kinda... aren’t.

My vote is definitely for “Flan Girl”, it is the only option that is a pun in English, plus it is also technically an accurate translation too, it does leave out the part of her being royalty but I think having it be a pun makes up for that. The only reason the royalty thing has any importance is because, this is a rare enemy and the most powerful of the pudding-type enemies. But, I think people can kinda figure that part out themselves, and also it does sorta make sense why a “Flan Girl” would be strong. If you imagine her saying “I’m your #1 flan!” then she is probably the #1 most powerful flan in battle, which is true. I really do like the name “Flan Girl” and think it is the best option if we can’t fit in the official canonical name “Flan Princess”. And I think a name like “Flan Girl” is something the official translations from Squaresoft might have done if they thought of this pun, they just didn’t think of this pun.

The other good thing about Flan Girl is it is not that different from Flan Princess as used in newer official translations. So aside from being a pun, it is also probably identifiable as the same enemy. As well as being an accurate translation.

Anyway good job with everything else and with getting the latest version of the patch out. I just wanted to answer that thing about Pink Puffs/Flan Princesses/Flan Girls. Do other people like having that be a pun? I wonder what other people think about this, if they like the name Flan Girl as much as I do. I know I did squeeze in the graphics for Flan Princess and post an image online in an earlier post but yeah, I get it, you need ROM space to fit all those tiles, you are low on space, gotcha, that’s why I’m suggesting Flan Girl instead. Which ought to be very very easy to fit, if there are any other enemies with “irl” in their names, “irl” easily fits into 2 tiles since lowercase i and lowercase l are both very thin letters. Then every other letter can be normal fixed-width alphabet tiles, very very easy to fit. You probably already have “irl” tiles hopefully.

Rodimus Primal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 838
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy IV Namingway Edition (updated to Version 1.86)
« Reply #446 on: October 12, 2018, 11:31:18 am »
There was no way around making it Flan Princess and Flan Girl just didn't seem right not being an official name. I also looked up the Japanese word for Princess, and I could get around it by calling it Flan Hime.

Digitsie

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy IV Namingway Edition (updated to Version 1.86)
« Reply #447 on: October 12, 2018, 08:20:04 pm »
Do it!

Timbo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy IV Namingway Edition (updated to Version 1.86)
« Reply #448 on: October 14, 2018, 09:41:17 am »
Personally, I think Square Enix dropped the "Purin Purincess" pun intentionally when they translated it over to English for a reason. There's no truly clever way to localize the joke.

"Flan Girl" is decent but you have to think about it for a second which should the joke.

If "Flan Princess" won't work for some reason, then my vote is for the less canonical and nostalgia inducing "Pink Puff" as a runner up.

yetisyny

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 38
  • yetisyny a.k.a. General Public
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy IV Namingway Edition (updated to Version 1.86)
« Reply #449 on: October 15, 2018, 02:37:58 am »
“Flan Hime” is fine with me. Reminds me of Orihime in Bleach or the anime Lunar Legend Tsukihime... I know what Hime means, probably a bunch of people do who don’t speak Japanese since it even has its own Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hime (most Japanese words do not have Wikipedia pages but a few like Sushi, Karate, Kawaii, Eroge, Anime, Sensei, etc. do).

Since the original Japanese used “Purinsesu” as a loanword from English, reversing that and using a loanword from Japanese, “Hime”, with the same exact meaning, makes perfect sense. I never thought of “Flan Hime”, that is a pretty smart way to solve this in a way that fits into the space. Great work! I agree about using “Flan Hime”. Hime might not technically be English but Princess is not technically Japanese either.

Zimgief

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 45
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy IV Namingway Edition (updated to Version 1.86)
« Reply #450 on: October 15, 2018, 08:41:34 am »
As a professional translator, I agree with the choice of "Flan Hime". Yetisyny makes a really good point.

But seeing the sprite of the ennemy, nothing in it screams "royalty", so I guess Flan Girl may be a safer bet.

Rodimus Primal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 838
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy IV Namingway Edition (updated to Version 1.86)
« Reply #451 on: October 15, 2018, 09:35:29 pm »
As a professional translator, I agree with the choice of "Flan Hime". Yetisyny makes a really good point.

But seeing the sprite of the ennemy, nothing in it screams "royalty", so I guess Flan Girl may be a safer bet.

At the present, it is still Pink Puff but if I do another update (if needed), I may change it to Flan Hime.

Timbo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy IV Namingway Edition (updated to Version 1.86)
« Reply #452 on: October 16, 2018, 02:24:24 pm »
As a professional translator, I agree with the choice of "Flan Hime". Yetisyny makes a really good point.

But seeing the sprite of the ennemy, nothing in it screams "royalty", so I guess Flan Girl may be a safer bet.

You're a professional translator, your opinion is inherently biased. I can think of absolutely zero major English Releases by Square where words like "Hime" have survived the localization process. There's a reason for that is because it hasn't been adopted beyond the anime and gaming crowd.

You and I might be comfortable with it but that doesn't mean it makes sense to the rest is the world.


moritasan2040

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy IV Namingway Edition (updated to Version 1.86)
« Reply #453 on: October 16, 2018, 04:42:39 pm »
You're a professional translator, your opinion is inherently biased. I can think of absolutely zero major English Releases by Square where words like "Hime" have survived the localization process. There's a reason for that is because it hasn't been adopted beyond the anime and gaming crowd.

You and I might be comfortable with it but that doesn't mean it makes sense to the rest is the world.
Good thing only the gaming crowd would be playing this...game.
Also, it's not a matter of "surviving the localization process" since in this case, it's being added in; changed from "Princess" to "Hime".

Maybe "Flan Prin." would be a good option.

yetisyny

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 38
  • yetisyny a.k.a. General Public
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy IV Namingway Edition (updated to Version 1.86)
« Reply #454 on: October 17, 2018, 07:28:05 am »
I can think of absolutely zero major English Releases by Square where words like "Hime" have survived the localization process. There's a reason for that is because it hasn't been adopted beyond the anime and gaming crowd.

OK fine, Hime is a Japanese word, not entirely localized to English, I got it.

Maybe "Flan Prin." would be a good option.

OK fine, you both made your point regarding Flan Hime, plus Rodimus Primal already kinda rejected Flan Girl when he said “Flan Girl just didn't seem right not being an official name” and also said that Flan Princess doesn’t fit since it’s too long.

So now that I considered that, I guess Flan Prin. is my first choice and Flan Hime is my 2nd choice. But I am 100% fine with either of those 2, they are both accurate. Whatever Rodimus Primal decides I am sure it will be something I am fine with, unless it is left as Pink Puff, I really would like it changed but I guess first everyone has to agree on what to change it too.

Is there anyone who objects to Flan Prin.? I certainly don’t.

Rodimus Primal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 838
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy IV Namingway Edition (updated to Version 1.86)
« Reply #455 on: October 17, 2018, 06:09:01 pm »
As of right now I have left it as Pink Puff. It's still a dessert and it's pink. It's an officially used name (even if not modern) and since the official one has NO way to abbreviate it properly it's staying as is. However, it is REALLY easy to change using FF4kster or a HEX editor with a table.

I only suggested Flan Hime and I don't think Flan Prin. works IMO.

Orochi Kusanagi

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy IV Namingway Edition (updated to Version 1.86)
« Reply #456 on: October 17, 2018, 07:29:35 pm »
Flan Prin doesn't really work for me either.

I think Pink Puff is good enough if you can't come to a conclusion on a change you like enough.

The only other things I could come up with are Puddin'/Pudding (like a cute nickname, and it fits), or maybe Flancess. Still, I'd probably stick with Pink Puff at this point, at least it has been used officially.

Digitsie

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy IV Namingway Edition (updated to Version 1.86)
« Reply #457 on: October 17, 2018, 10:09:34 pm »
if it was flan hime, wouldn't flan lady also work? Since hime could be used for either lady or princess.

https://www.powerthesaurus.org/princess/synonyms

You could also try lady flan or prin. flan

Orochi Kusanagi

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy IV Namingway Edition (updated to Version 1.86)
« Reply #458 on: October 17, 2018, 11:54:46 pm »
Lady Flan would be good too IMO since before Princess was commonly used, they would be referred to as The Lady (givenname).

yetisyny

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 38
  • yetisyny a.k.a. General Public
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy IV Namingway Edition (updated to Version 1.86)
« Reply #459 on: October 20, 2018, 09:05:38 am »
Honestly if you can get ANY name that is closer to Flan Princess than it is to Pink Puff I would support the change 100%. Flan Lady, Lady Flan, Flan Girl, Flan Prin., Flan Hime, those are all fine.

And just to add another one, Dame Flan, that would fit, Dame is a general title used for female British aristocracy and royalty, but since it is a title it comes before the name.

As far as Flan Prin. I don’t see what is wrong with abbreviations, we use abbreviations for the King and Queen of Eblana when they are encountered as boss enemies.

Keeping it as Pink Puff just doesn’t fit in with the way this hack changes other names to be similar to the GBA, PSP, and Nintendo DS official ports of Final Fantasy IV. Pink Puff is not an accurate translation and it is not what the newer official translations by Squaresoft/Square Enix use, and for everything else in the game, Namingway Edition uses names of things that are basically standard names from newer official ports.

It is a little inconsistent to see just this one thing keep using language from the SNES official translation when pretty much nothing else in Namingway Edition does that. Project II, sure, Project II mostly sticks to names from the original official SNES translation, but I thought Namingway Edition was aimed at changing those to the newer standard names.

Anyway I would be happy with almost anything other than Pink Puff, something that is more accurate to the Japanese. Flan is more similar to Pudding than a Puff pastry is. And while the enemy certainly is Pink, that is not mentioned in the Japanese name, instead the English word Princess is used. If the goal is an at least semi-accurate translation, I don’t see how leaving it as Pink Puff makes any sense. If you compare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flan to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puff_pastry I would note that puff pastry is mostly made of dough, in fact having many layers of pastry dough, while flan is mostly made of soft filling, making flan much more similar to pudding. So at the very least the pastry is a Pink Flan rather than a Pink Puff. But again Pink doesn’t belong in the name, instead some mention of female royalty or aristocracy belongs there ideally.

I don’t care if it is Flan Lady, Lady Flan, Flan Girl, Flan Prin., Flan Hime, Dame Flan, or something else like that, any of those would be much more accurate than Pink Puff and I would approve of any of them as being a better translation from the original Japanese. I would fully support changing it to any of those. If other people can agree on ANY of those names that is more accurate than Pink Puff, I agree to it too, I just want it changed from Pink Puff since Pink Puff is so inaccurate.

Generally I think going by names that are standard in the Nintendo DS, PSP, and GBA versions is best, you can find the names for everything in the entire game in the translation comparison here: https://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_IV/Translations. In this case all 3 of them agree on Flan Princess so some abbreviated variant of that that can fit in the space should be used here ideally. Just like for most other things in the game, Namingway Edition pretty much already uses the standard names used by Nintendo DS, PSP, and GBA versions, making it quite close to one of the newer official translations at least regarding the naming. The only other translation that uses Pink Puff is the PlayStation one which uses the same names for almost everything as the SNES one, and the PlayStation port copies all the other mistaken translations for names of things in the SNES version. Names did not get fixed until the GBA, Nintendo DS, and PSP ports.