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Author Topic: This site needs rating AND top-lists  (Read 6491 times)

dACE

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This site needs rating AND top-lists
« on: October 18, 2014, 03:03:26 pm »
Hi,

With an implementation of a rating system (that allows registered users to rate games) - this site could have TOP-lists...loads and loads of TOP-lists...

/dACE

Gideon Zhi

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Re: This site needs rating AND top-lists
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2014, 03:09:02 pm »
It's been discussed before and has pretty much universally been decided that that sort of thing isn't what we're going for here.
http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,14121.0.html
http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,14296.0.html

dACE

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Re: This site needs rating AND top-lists
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2014, 02:55:27 pm »
No you are right - I have come to realize what RomHacking.net is going for:

Promoting lazy ass 'reved up' and 'simplified' versions of classic games.

Keep em coming, drowning out the outstanding achievments (like 'Zelda - legend of Link').

/dACE

KaioShin

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Re: This site needs rating AND top-lists
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2014, 03:02:06 pm »
We aren't promoting anything, we are just providing a platform. If people spend a year creating an awesome hack and then are too lazy to take 10 minutes to submit a news post about it to get people interested, it's not RHDN's fault.
All my posts are merely personal opinions and not statements of fact, even if they are not explicitly prefixed by "In my opinion", "IMO", "I believe", or similar modifiers. By reading this disclaimer you agree to reply in spirit of these conditions.

Next Gen Cowboy

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Re: This site needs rating AND top-lists
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2014, 03:44:13 pm »
We do have a review system, one could always take time, and submit a review to help others decide what hacks and translations would be worth playing.
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Zynk Oxhyde

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Re: This site needs rating AND top-lists
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2014, 07:14:31 pm »
No you are right - I have come to realize what RomHacking.net is going for:

Promoting lazy ass 'reved up' and 'simplified' versions of classic games.

Keep em coming, drowning out the outstanding achievments (like 'Zelda - legend of Link').

/dACE
We don't write the news section. If someone wants to promote their own work they can write it. If someone wants to write news of others' hacks, they can write it themselves. The site and staff just screens the news not write them.

snarfblam

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Re: This site needs rating AND top-lists
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2014, 09:15:58 pm »
No you are right - I have come to realize what RomHacking.net is going for:

Promoting lazy ass 'reved up' and 'simplified' versions of classic games.

You don't have to agree with us, but there is no reason you can't have an opinion and be polite. It looks like you haven't submitted any reviews or news articles yourself. On the other hand, since you've mentioned Legend of Link, I did submit a news article for that. If there is a release that you want to bring attention to, writing a good review for it and submitting a news article is a good first step.

Kiyoshi Aman

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Re: This site needs rating AND top-lists
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2014, 11:11:45 pm »
With an implementation of a rating system (that allows registered users to rate games)

RHDN decided against having ratings because they're neither meaningful nor objective. A 5-star rating for one person is probably a 3-star rating for another. More to the point, you would end up reading the reviews anyway to figure out if a hack or translation is genuinely of interest.

tl;dr: ratings systems are useless.

dACE

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Re: This site needs rating AND top-lists
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2014, 01:46:42 pm »
I'm not doing my best to offend specific contributors.

I feel there is a wast difference between properly analyzing a hard/easy game and after much thought - fine-tune them to grant the player a better experience AND downloading an editor, filling in all gaps in the levels, increase the life-bar and allowing the player to deal more damage.

My suggestion of a top-list would address the problem of easy access to hacks worth the while. I'm talking of projects that are the end result of MONTHS of work, rather than hours.

/dACE

Spooniest

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Re: This site needs rating AND top-lists
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2014, 12:08:39 am »
I'm not doing my best to offend specific contributors.

You did just hurl the epithet "lazy ass" at whoever in particular the statement you made applied to. I don't buy it.

I feel there is a wast difference between properly analyzing a hard/easy game and after much thought - fine-tune them to grant the player a better experience AND downloading an editor, filling in all gaps in the levels, increase the life-bar and allowing the player to deal more damage.

My suggestion of a top-list would address the problem of easy access to hacks worth the while. I'm talking of projects that are the end result of MONTHS of work, rather than hours.

/dACE

Let me get this straight; you think that people are automatically going to upvote projects that are "worthwhile."

Now, with what definition of "worthwhile" are you working? You've only listed one stipulation, that of how long it took to make it. Did it ever occur to you that someone could spend weeks, months even, poring over a work and it still would not suit your tastes, or be something you consider "worthwhile?"

Add to that the fact that someone is more likely to upvote a project that is based on a game or intellectual property they happen to like, regardless of its quality, and what you essentially have is a largely unregulated popularity contest. In layman's terms, "GameFAQs Polls."

I was once told that the most-downloaded projects on the site tend to be Dragon Ball Z themed. It wasn't what I expected to hear, but it made sense.

dACE

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Re: This site needs rating AND top-lists
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2014, 02:21:20 am »
OK - here are a couple of examples of what I consider to be bad hacks (scribbled down in a hurry - there is much more) does any disagree with the following?

Bad hacks:
- Someone contributed a hack called Castlevania glitchfest (or something like that) - including a staple of bad quality in your hacks TITLE is a dead giveaway.
- Replacing the main character and various enemies with penises. Fun for a while, at best, but ALWAYS a bad hack.

/dACE

Kiyoshi Aman

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Re: This site needs rating AND top-lists
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2014, 02:44:45 am »
If you think a hack or translation violates RHDN submission guidelines, you are free to flag them as noncompliant.

Zynk Oxhyde

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Re: This site needs rating AND top-lists
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2014, 03:40:15 am »
OK - here are a couple of examples of what I consider to be bad hacks (scribbled down in a hurry - there is much more) does any disagree with the following?

Bad hacks:
- Someone contributed a hack called Castlevania glitchfest (or something like that) - including a staple of bad quality in your hacks TITLE is a dead giveaway.
- Replacing the main character and various enemies with penises. Fun for a while, at best, but ALWAYS a bad hack.

/dACE
I always abhor the thought of that Dicktales hack. That should be destroyed with passion.  :crazy:

And there's a place for that, like Badderhacks.net.

Spooniest

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Re: This site needs rating AND top-lists
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2014, 02:05:31 pm »
@ dACE:

You don't seem prepared to consider this idea beyond a certain generalized level. You're coming off as very distracted.

If you really think this is such a good idea, oughtn't you be putting a bit more effort into it?

Special

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Re: This site needs rating AND top-lists
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2014, 04:47:36 pm »
My 2 cents on this is I think there should be a Top list of some kind, but maybe not a Rank list. This would be for discoverability reasons because discovering new 'good' things are a crap shoot right now, and will always be and will just get worse as more and more hacks/translations get added.

Rank lists are nice but then again they might not be the most accurate, and people can grief them which is a downsite, like oh I don't like Spooniest so I'm going to give all his Hacks a 1 star, then his average sits at 2.7/5 and then gets lumped in with the rest of the 'meh' hacks and will never be seen ever again because of the discoverability mess.

Top lists I think should absolutely happen, I see no reason not to do this. Maybe something simple like the way this site does it http://snesmusic.org/v2/stats.php
Most downloads and Least downloads, you can do this for each system NES, SNES, etc. can even do it by 'all time' and 'this month' ect. Sure you still going to end up with a lot of thing in the middle that don't make the top list or the least list but its better then having everything just listed by A-Z.

Bregalad

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Re: This site needs rating AND top-lists
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2014, 04:57:00 pm »
There's no point in having a top list because I already know what will consit it : Hacks of games that always ends up at top-list of best games.

I can already see only Chrono Trigger, FF6, Super Mario World, oh well you see what I mean. I will be exactly like the top list you just listed, but with hacks instead of games.

I think it's very fine without any rating because the current system with reviews is already half-broken when the hack author updates it (and the reviews are not updated) with ratings it'd be even worse, if you have low ratings there's no way you could ever get a higher one by updating the hack, and so you'd have to call it a different hack and made another entry, and flood this site.

That being said, dACE, if you absolutely want to have an romhacking site with ratings (which seems to be the case) nobody prevents you to open yours.

STARWIN

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Re: This site needs rating AND top-lists
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2014, 05:18:46 pm »
Having ratings and top lists would make this site more approachable to simple people. Being more approachable to simple people would cause more "simple" or "low quality" hacks to be submitted, by them, once they find an editor to edit their favourite game.

Hence I propose to make RHDN less approachable to normal humans, for example to even view the site, an obligatory 6502 asm puzzle (alternatively pixel art / NES music creation / scene history quiz) or support server costs. I suspect we could see a reduction in undesirable submissions after this!

That being said, dACE, if you absolutely want to have an romhacking site with ratings (which seems to be the case) nobody prevents you to open yours.

Actually, it would also be possible for a third-party site just to rank the contents of this site.

Top lists I think should absolutely happen, I see no reason not to do this. Maybe something simple like the way this site does it http://snesmusic.org/v2/stats.php
Most downloads and Least downloads, you can do this for each system NES, SNES, etc. can even do it by 'all time' and 'this month' ect. Sure you still going to end up with a lot of thing in the middle that don't make the top list or the least list but its better then having everything just listed by A-Z.

But we could also do it like this site does it! http://ocremix.org/
User reviews, ways to pick content via some simple filters and by default, having everything listed A-Z.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 05:27:54 pm by STARWIN »

Special

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Re: This site needs rating AND top-lists
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2014, 05:31:31 pm »
To all you "ratings systems are useless, lists are useless" people, why does literally ever database kind of site have one and why does it work for them? and why won't it work here, and don't give me 'ratings are subjective, lists are subjective' crap, because no duh, are you telling me the below links do not in some way help people find the 'better then' ones when they are looking for 'thing' , do you honestly think sites like Steam should just list every RPG under the sun in an A-Z fashion like this site does.
 
http://www.filehippo.com/popular
http://www.portablefreeware.com/index.php?s=25&so=p
http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/rankings?platform=94&genre=0&list_type=rate&view_type=0&dlc=0&min_votes=0
http://www.imdb.com/chart/top?ref_=nv_ch_250_4
http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/downloads
http://store.steampowered.com/search/?tags=122&page=1#sort_by=Reviews_DESC&tags=122&page=1

They are not perfect and will still require some digging by the user, but a lot less digging would happen if I could sort NES by most downloads or most reviews > RPG, then work my way through pages 1-5. This works both ways, helps people find the popular, highest rated hacks, and it will highlight the newly submitted and 'no downloads' hacks which then can translate into more views.

I've basically seen nothing from the 'anti list' guys other then 'they are subjective, pointless'  I guess the site guy will also need to code these lists, so it does add to the workload some, one negative against this I guess.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 05:45:10 pm by Special »

SunGodPortal

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Re: This site needs rating AND top-lists
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2014, 07:56:07 pm »
I have to agree with STARWIN in some ways. It'll just make the site friendlier to casual fans and therefore diminish some of it's "elite-ness". Could perhaps even lower the quality of the submissions (though that might be a stretch and more likely an indirect and long term result). "Best-of" stuff usually just equates to what's most accessible or gimmicky. It won't help people find better hacks, it'll just direct lazy people to the lowest-common-denominator. That's not worth the effort.
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snarfblam

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Re: This site needs rating AND top-lists
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2014, 09:05:16 pm »
Actually, it would also be possible for a third-party site just to rank the contents of this site.

This actually sounds like a practical solution.