News: 11 March 2016 - Forum Rules
Current Moderators - DarkSol, KingMike, MathOnNapkins, Azkadellia, Danke

Author Topic: Castlevania 3j Long Version with SRAM Support  (Read 27079 times)

Drakon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 277
    • View Profile
    • 16 Bit Gamer
Re: Castlevania 3j Long Version with SRAM Support
« Reply #60 on: February 20, 2014, 04:57:44 pm »
I don't think it's stalker/trollish.  It's more like he's telling the community about how Drakon works, which apparently he has an incredibly bad rep on MANY places in the modding community.

Though, I can't really pertain in this argument much as I would never, ever do any sort of modding like that to a cartridge, system or anything.

I still say though, if you do work and WON'T release it via IPS patch, at least do what you said you'd do and release your notes (Preferably legible and not a broken mess) you did so someone CAN create it if they do so in their time, otherwise, it'd appear you're coming off as very condescending.

The first post has my notes, sorry if you think they're messy.  As stated before if people want me to release the IPS I'd like a little money for a public release.  If people would prefer not to have it released, I'm totally fine with that.  I assume you've all seen what my work is like so I plan on releasing the IPS encased in hot glue.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 05:21:12 pm by Drakon »

justin3009

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1611
  • Welp
    • View Profile
Re: Castlevania 3j Long Version with SRAM Support
« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2014, 05:59:21 am »
I didn't actually look as I don't really have any interest in NES modding sadly, but thank you for releasing the notes at the very least. That's greatly appreciated
'We have to find some way to incorporate the general civilians in the plot.'

'We'll kill off children in the Juuban district with an infection where they cough up blood and are found hanging themselves from cherry blossom trees.'

Drakon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 277
    • View Profile
    • 16 Bit Gamer
Re: Castlevania 3j Long Version with SRAM Support
« Reply #62 on: February 21, 2014, 02:22:57 pm »
I didn't actually look as I don't really have any interest in NES modding sadly, but thank you for releasing the notes at the very least. That's greatly appreciated

Yeah I'll happily release notes no matter what project I do.  Hunting down ram and rom addresses is just tedious.

Vanya

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1487
    • View Profile
Re: Castlevania 3j Long Version with SRAM Support
« Reply #63 on: February 21, 2014, 06:18:15 pm »
That it is. Notes are always appreciated. Otherwise what does the community have to build on?

Drakon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 277
    • View Profile
    • 16 Bit Gamer
Re: Castlevania 3j Long Version with SRAM Support
« Reply #64 on: February 22, 2014, 01:52:41 am »
That it is. Notes are always appreciated. Otherwise what does the community have to build on?

It's amazing how much time and effort you can save just by reading through documents posted by other romhackers.  A lot of the information you'd need is out there you just need to take the time to read it all.

TheScene

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Castlevania 3j Long Version with SRAM Support
« Reply #65 on: October 11, 2014, 06:27:57 am »
I am aware this post is a necro, but I feel this is something that needs to be said out of respect for all the people who make this site how great it is. Drakon's reputation is not something I'll focus on here, either.

I have an issue with a few things that occurred in this thread, particularly that someone chooses to utilize this site and it's tutorials to learn and better themselves and use it only for themselves. At first glance, it doesn't seem all that bad does it? Well, this is why it is wrong. It is one thing to use this site and not give in return, this site in-general is for everyone, but to make things with the tools from this site and show off what you create and not give back to the community who gave you the knowledge and assistance to make said things only to rub it this community's face is really a move lacking of respect. I'll elaborate more on this below.

All stages are played in sequence giving you the full experience.  No more choosing routes, now you get to play every stage in the game!  Don't have time to do it all in one sitting?  Worry not! Because there's sram saving so you can turn it off and come back to it whenever you feel.

In this part of the post Drakon is referring to us, now. We get to do this. I do not understand this wording if this isn't something he's going to release.


Will I release the ips?  No, I don't feel like giving out this much work freely.
 
This site is all about sharing ones work so that the whole community grows, and it is not as if he has to release this, but to simply state he will not give it out for free as in he would rather be payed for it completely undermines what he himself did. He took things freely from this site, makes something, shows it to us all, hypes it up and explains how amazing it is and yet, despite how amazing he feels it is he is only worried about money despite this community giving him the ability and knowledge to create said things? Why do this?

Quote
But for anyone who's interested in hacking away at castlevania 3j here's my hacking notes so you can make your own awesome hack! (I want to inspire more people to learn how to do this):

He mentions here he wants people to learn how to hack, but it doesn't actually have anything to do with the hack he made himself. Wouldn't actually people playing his hack inspire them even more? I say this for a reason, and that reason will be stated below.

I don't expect people to pay.  So why's it important?  If daniel wanted money for his utility then perhaps he shouldn't have released it for free.

This part is where I feel he being highly disrespectful to this community. He has no qualms taking the things that people do here for himself, for free. He has no qualms with showing off the creations he made that he won't share with anyone without money involved, even if he doesn't expect anyone to pay said money which would be an obvious assumption because not many would, but he has the gall to say that daniel shouldn't have released it for free if he wishes to make money off it and yet, still wants to make money off of work that helped him make what he made?

This behavior is a leech of this community and undermines the whole point of the site, to share and respect each other. That is very wrong to do this to this community.

omega_rugal

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
Re: Castlevania 3j Long Version with SRAM Support
« Reply #66 on: October 11, 2014, 10:14:55 pm »
this caught my attention

Quote
I don't feel like giving out this much work freely.

hacking takes away precious free time, time you could devote to something else, specially when you have more important things to take care of like work, school or family.

but in the nd, depends on what you expect  to receive in exchange... as for my self, i got into this NES hacking recently to learn how customize those classic games i love and try to fix all the things i always found annoying or useless, in other words i do it for fun, i dont expect anything else, therefore, i have no problem in sharing my work with everyone

get something, give something.

unless you can do this either by

a- making your own tools or
b- do it all in HEX

and gathering all the info by yourself, you have no right to ask money for a hack, not to mention you are working on copyrighted material from the start,
Done your packing?, your life journey is over...

Vanya

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1487
    • View Profile
Re: Castlevania 3j Long Version with SRAM Support
« Reply #67 on: October 11, 2014, 10:30:16 pm »
Not to mention that from a pure legal perspective any work any ROMhacker does without permission is the rightful property of the copyright holder.

For example I heard somewhere that Capcom used the original logo created for Megaman Unlimited when it was still called MM10.
If this is true, even though MegaPhilX did the work on the logo it still belongs to Capcom and they can use it how they see fit.

In the same sense, Konami can ,for example, take the re-translation patch for Castlevania 2 from this very site patch their ROM, remove all credits related to Bisqwit, and release it for Wii U Virtual Console and Bisqwit would have no legal grounds to protest Konami's actions.

I think the reasons this doesn't happen often is because most companies would prefer not to encourage ROM hacking and if they took a whole rom hack without creditting the hacker there would likely be a lot of P.R. backlash.

omega_rugal

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
Re: Castlevania 3j Long Version with SRAM Support
« Reply #68 on: October 11, 2014, 11:33:11 pm »
Quote
For example I heard somewhere that Capcom used the original logo created for Megaman Unlimited when it was still called MM10.
If this is true, even though MegaPhilX did the work on the logo it still belongs to Capcom and they can use it how they see fit.

In the same sense, Konami can ,for example, take the re-translation patch for Castlevania 2 from this very site patch their ROM, remove all credits related to Bisqwit, and release it for Wii U Virtual Console and Bisqwit would have no legal grounds to protest Konami's actions.

So what? that actually would be nice, have you seen the 8-bit versions of Megaman 7 and Megaman 8? really cool shit, but even if CAPCOM takes these ROMS and puts them on the Virtual console or makes and sells collectable NES cartdridges, the authors would get no money from it...

sad but true.

so what did we learn today? before pouring so much effort in a hack, think about what you really expect to get in return, money? unlikely, because you are working over someone elses property, ownership of the hack? again, you are working on something that doesnt belong to you, you may own the IPS file, which is useless without the copyrighted ROM it was made from.
Done your packing?, your life journey is over...

tc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1124
  • Lum Fan
    • View Profile
    • Eon Blog
Re: Castlevania 3j Long Version with SRAM Support
« Reply #69 on: October 12, 2014, 04:20:01 am »
Charging for patches is one thing.

Boasting about it without specifying its price, or setting up a reasonably trustworthy method to actually purchase it, is another.

Bregalad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2636
    • View Profile
Re: Castlevania 3j Long Version with SRAM Support
« Reply #70 on: October 12, 2014, 06:23:49 am »
Quote
So what? that actually would be nice, have you seen the 8-bit versions of Megaman 7 and Megaman 8? really cool shit, but even if CAPCOM takes these ROMS and puts them on the Virtual console or makes and sells collectable NES cartdridges, the authors would get no money from it...
Actually it's not ROMs but PC programs, that were designed to look/play similar to NES. And I agree they're very cool. Since the original Mega Man 7/8 were made by Capcom it makes perfect sense to me that Capcom are the owner of this, even if they didn't ask anyone to do it.

Quote
sad but true
I don't think this is sad, but plain logical.

My romhacks for instance all improves something in the original game that I felt was lacking. It makes sense the original game developer still owns the hack since it's how the game was supposed to be at some point.

omega_rugal

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
Re: Castlevania 3j Long Version with SRAM Support
« Reply #71 on: October 12, 2014, 08:46:48 am »
Quote
Actually it's not ROMs but PC programs

they are PC programs? i could swear they were MM6 hacks...
Done your packing?, your life journey is over...

Vanya

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1487
    • View Profile
Re: Castlevania 3j Long Version with SRAM Support
« Reply #72 on: October 12, 2014, 08:53:37 am »
Nope. They are both fan games.

But there is always a very slim chance your work could get picked up and you could make some money from your efforts legally.
Take Megaman vs Street Fighter, that started as a fan game.
Capcom took an interest and basically paid the guy who was working on it to finish it and then they released it as a free pc game for the anniversary.
And there are a few other similar cases. Most notably Ms. Pac-Man which started out as an unauthorized hack of Pac-Man.
Of course you probably have a better chance of winning the lottery.

KingMike

  • Forum Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6885
  • *sigh* A changed avatar. Big deal.
    • View Profile
Re: Castlevania 3j Long Version with SRAM Support
« Reply #73 on: October 12, 2014, 01:15:46 pm »
Ms. Pac-Man is different. That was the result of a result of a legal settlement.
"My watch says 30 chickens" Google, 2018

Bregalad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2636
    • View Profile
Re: Castlevania 3j Long Version with SRAM Support
« Reply #74 on: October 12, 2014, 03:38:10 pm »
Quote
they are PC programs? i could swear they were MM6 hacks...
Do you realize the quantity of things that wouldn't be doable on NES hardware with these games ?

dACE

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
    • View Profile
Re: Castlevania 3j Long Version with SRAM Support
« Reply #75 on: October 12, 2014, 04:41:53 pm »
Only a complete douche would post like this:

'look at what I have made - that you can't have..'

/d-ACE

Vanya

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1487
    • View Profile
Re: Castlevania 3j Long Version with SRAM Support
« Reply #76 on: October 12, 2014, 09:22:06 pm »
Ms. Pac-Man is different. That was the result of a result of a legal settlement.

Not really, the legal proceedings have no bearing on the situation itself.
Crazy Otto which is the basis of Ms. Pac-Man was an unauthorized arcade upgrade kit which for all intents and purposes is a ROM hack.
The legal settlement was just the resolution to the situation.

And there are a few other examples where a new game came about after legal proceedings.
I can't remember the name of the game but I remember reading an article about one of these situations where someone made a mod or a remake of an old PC game and tried selling it.
They got sued by the copyright holder and they settled before it went to court, and the end result there was that the guy that was getting sued ended up getting hired to make an official sequel out of his initial work.

TheRetromancer

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Castlevania 3j Long Version with SRAM Support
« Reply #77 on: December 27, 2014, 06:33:26 am »
Let's take a look at what a hack actually is, shall we?  A 'hack', in this context, is essentially an alteration of another person's work, and can take the form of altered graphics, functionality, gameplay elements, or textual differences.  Hackers essentially try to (subjectively) improve the base work, and this provides the community with things like better translations, restored materials, expanded areas, etc.  This is a wonderful and vital gift to the retro gaming community, as even the 'replace Mario with Luigi' hacks means that somebody, somewhere, loves the game and is interested in educating themselves a little.  Props unto thee for being part of that crew, Drakon.  I have my own issues with your 'mod-work', but others have mentioned before that this is not the point of this community, so I won't be a champion of Skips' cause.  Not here.

However, and I'm afraid I must be blunt here - your notion of selling patches is not only absolutely disgusting to me as a gamer, but is unequivocally illegal .  There are no shades of grey in this argument. 

Period. 

Full stop. 

End of story.

The inherent problem with the idea of selling patches is that, ultimately, you are stealing registered code. Hacks are great fun, but by their very nature, they are building on top of an established code-base (ie, engine) that is not the property of the hack creator. This constitutes IP theft.

That's pretty illegal. The only way for you to profit on your hacks is for your hack to literally overwrite EVERYTHING that you did not personally create - no images, no backgrounds, no graphics, no code, NOTHING that you did not personally create can be a part of your hack. You can't even have dummied content that isn't yours. This effectively means that you might as well do away with trying to make a 'hack' and just create a homebrew, because that's what you need to do to profit off of your work.

There is no 'grey area' - if you don't own every aspect of the finished product, you cannot sell it.  By creating a patch that, while useless on its own, is only useable once applied to another person's work, you are creating what is legally considered to be a derivative work.

http://www.law.washington.edu/lta/swp/Law/derivative.html

If you try to sell a patch, you will get your ass sued.  It doesn't matter that every scrap of the patch is your work - all that matters is its intended use...which is to be applied over someone else's code.

That's partly why my team and I released our MSU-1 Zelda patch for free to the community - because we couldn't (and more to the point, wouldn't) charge for it.  That's why Emuandco is working on his DKC2 MSU-1 patch for free. 

For my own part, I took a great deal of pleasure in knowing that we not only did it for free, and not only did we do it better than you did, but we did it to spite you and your money-grubbing ways.

I take no small amount of personal offense at your mercenary attitude, Drakon - ROMhacks are a gift to the community, a love letter to the games we grew up on, and it sickens me to see someone like you trying to make a profit off of things like this.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 03:57:58 pm by TheRetromancer »

Satoshi_Matrix

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
  • Retro & Contemporary Gamer
    • View Profile
    • Retro & Contemporary Gaming Archives
Re: Castlevania 3j Long Version with SRAM Support
« Reply #78 on: December 28, 2014, 09:09:40 pm »
I've privately told him this repeatedly. He thinks he's entitled to make a profit for his hacking. I think it's disgraceful as well, especially given that nobody else even thinks about selling their hacks or translations.

It's one thing to politely ask for optional donations to help fund future projects.
It's quite another thing to attempt to sell your hacks and make a profit on work that isn't even legally yours to meddle with to begin with.

I'm not anti-Drakon like a lot of people in the console hardware modding community are for his pricy past work, but I no longer really pay any attention to his hacking work because while it's cool, he wants to sell it to me, and I'm his friend who would love to endorse and recommend him. But when every other ROM hacker releases their stuff for free, Drakon stands out like a sore thumb.

Open optional donations if you feel your stuff is worth making money on, don't try and sell your hacks.

Sliver X

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1036
  • EX•CINERIBVS•IGNIS•EXCITABITVR
    • View Profile
    • Panicus - A Fragment of Memory
Re: Castlevania 3j Long Version with SRAM Support
« Reply #79 on: December 28, 2014, 10:33:15 pm »
I spent a not-insignificant chunk of my life making ROM hacks, one spanning most of three years. I never expected monetary compensation for anything I did: I had my own reasons for investing that time into what I did, and looking back on it, many things I learned in the process directly helped me in "legitimate" lines of work that came by later in my life. While I never made a penny from those hacks the ways I can think outside of the box gained from hacking ROMs has more than paid me back.

That said, I used to get pissed off when I would see people selling reproduction cartridges of hacks I'd done, but I've learned to not really care. To say the chances of anything legally happening to the people doing it were infinitesimal would be an understatement (Even though it flagrantly violates the Berne Convention, as do all ROM hacks/translations), and if people really want to pay money for a physical copy of work I released for absolute gratis, well, more power to them. P.T. Barnum had a saying about that which pretty much sums it up.

If what Drakon does really bothers you, re-create what he's done and release it for free. I've always considered myself a middling to average ROM hacker at best, but even I can tell most of what he does is not terribly complex or difficult to pull off if you have even a passing knowledge of NES architecture and/or assembly.

Everything you would need to know can be found either on this site or (Once you have a basic grasp of ROM hacking, I would recommend) ask for help in the IRC channel. There are a lot of very skilled and experienced people there.