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Author Topic: [PS1]Ace Combat 3 Electrosphere: text replacement (next ver. coming soon)  (Read 103433 times)

Dashman

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Re: ACE COMBAT 3 electrosphere: text replacement (Jp->En)
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2014, 04:44:25 am »
I've never used it, but in the jPSXdec description it says it can replace TIM images, so I guess it's a matter of searching for the proper options. If it comes with a readme file, that should be the best start.

DragonSpikeXIII

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Re: ACE COMBAT 3 electrosphere: text replacement (Jp->En)
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2014, 05:05:18 am »
Wow, had no idea jPSXdec could do that, reading the manual as I type.

Will post results ASAP

February 05, 2014, 09:59:23 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Ok, I've been trying to replace the file but it hasn't worked out for me yet.

After having read the manual I think these three points could be a problem, I hope not but here's the copy-paste anyway.

1)"the image file is the same dimensions as the TIM image
2)• the TIM image has only 1 palette
3)• the input image can be successfully converted to the same bit depth as the
TIM image it is replacing"

1) Is the size of the .bmp/ .png (a couple can only be taken out as png's by jpsxdec) after extraction the same as the size on the game iso? from bmp to png they're radically different, as it is to be expected.

2) I had to work with a png converted from a bmp as the two png text files have two palettes.

3) I don't even know if I should be worrying about this.

Anyone who has experience with this willing to help a newbie, please?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 10:14:58 pm by DragonSpikeXIII »

esperknight

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Re: ACE COMBAT 3 electrosphere: text replacement (Jp->En) UPDATED
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2014, 09:34:57 pm »
Ack, I forgot to subscribe!  Great to see some progress though :)

Dashman, you are awesome :D  I appreciate you letting us use you're program.  I have one question though, would it be possible to have this usable through the command line?  AC3 has about 750+ images to be modified and I'd hate for someone to do all those by hand.  If it could somehow be done through the command line that'd be awesome (maybe feed in a text file and possibly just have one settings file to make it easier for h, w, font, etc?)

If anyones curious to see all the TIM files that AC3 uses for text : http://www.mediafire.com/download/7biid4v4ulq88vo/BPB.rar  Some of them aren't quite right though as my decompressor is probably missing a few cases.  We'll have to deal with those as I see them though (and possibly they may not be legit, never know).  It's insane that AC3 does this as it's definitely not normal and makes it a pain.  Then again I've seen far worse (Yuuyami uses a different font for each block of text.  I think it had over a 1000+ or so, no joke.)

Far as insertion DragonSpike, as long as the width and height are the same and it's the same bit depth then the size will be the same as well.  Far as insertion though you may have some issues though as far as I know everything is compressed so will need to be recompressed which I can do and repacked as well.  Will take me a bit for that though.  Although you should be able to test with jPSXdec I'm assuming if the graphic is uncompressed and all that which I'm guessing it would be if you see it with jPSXdec :)

Anyone know of a command line image to tim converter offhand?  :)  Overall my idea is to automate this as much as possible so ideally we could have the graphics fed into a command line program to convert it to tim and then I'd just recompress and repack all through the command line.  The conversion to TIM may be the tricky part for command line wise as I'm not sure off hand of any command line converters...

Dashman

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Re: ACE COMBAT 3 electrosphere: text replacement (Jp->En) UPDATED
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2014, 07:19:05 am »
Sorry, I didn't notice DragonSpike's update because of the auto-merge, let me check those points...

1) Well, they say "dimensions" instead of "size". As long as the image you're trying to re-insert has the same width x height (like 256 x 256), the file size shouldn't matter. Please make sure I didn't mess up the dimensions of the output (I only tested it with one image) and tell me if something is wrong.
2) Ah, palettes... I'm still a bit lost with these things. I'm guessing this means the image mode has to be indexed instead of RGB (should be easy to change in Photoshop, if you want to try it), but I'm not really sure. If it's just that, I guess I can change the way the program generates the textures and it'd be done. I'd appreciate some confirmation on this, though.
3)Bit-depth is indeed important. In GBA games, for example, I think the bit depth was 4 bit for textures, so you couldn't have more than 16 colours for a sprite. Not sure what's the required depth for textures in a PSX game, but it shouldn't be nearly as low. Again, if I know the required bit depth, I guess I can alter the program to accomodate to that.

... would it be possible to have this usable through the command line?  AC3 has about 750+ images to be modified and I'd hate for someone to do all those by hand.  If it could somehow be done through the command line that'd be awesome (maybe feed in a text file and possibly just have one settings file to make it easier for h, w, font, etc?)
Hm... I can see how that would be faster, it could work with batches of files rather easily.

However, the text needs to be adjusted to the original lines, which is where the graphical component of this little program shines. From experience I can tell that most stuff you write in Japanese with n characters will require that you to use at least 1.5x n characters when translating it into English, and it's not that easy to see when a line is gonna exceed the fixed 256px width limit in a text file.

I know that Project Nemo has a big chunk of the text (if not all) translated already, so as long as you can find the correspondences, it will be a matter of pasting the translated text into the program, reformatting it into something that fits the original and generating the translated texture. Yes, it's 750+ images and it's gonna be tedious, but believe me, it could be much, MUCH worse than that.

DragonSpikeXIII

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Re: ACE COMBAT 3 electrosphere: text replacement (Jp->En) UPDATED
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2014, 06:07:26 pm »
Just got the tim pack you've uploaded esperknight, thanks for that. Took a look at the first few folders and, well, this is going to take some time but lucky me, I have that in spades. With a little bit of assistance regarding Japanese lingo here and there from BRPXQZME, and support from you guys for the more technical side of this project, I'll be able to do the grunt-work all by myself. As long as technical obstacles can be overcome, I can take care of painstakingly rewriting the text files. All 52 missions have been fully translated, the only things missing are the "search files" (in-game "wiki") which weren't included in the source for our English script, but I'll worry about that later.

I'm using an old-ass TIM viewer and converter I found on Zophar (http://www.zophar.net/utilities/psxutil/tim-viewer.html), doens't look to be command-line though but it does reconvert back to tim and it's got a GUI which to me is better as I'm still getting used to command-line. I agree that we should try to get as much of this as automated as possible.

It was only a hunch but to finally see the extracted text look exactly as I had predicted is both good and bad. White-on-black from in-game and inter-mission cut-scenes, black-on-pastel yellow from a lot of stuff, namely pre-mission and in-game encyclopedia, and black-on-blue debriefing. I'm still converting each folder as I type this, from the looks of it it's pretty nicely organized, mission by mission. Some are single-line strips but pre-mission and post-mission are just one normal size image just like the (only) ones I initially found with jPSXdec. Still no sign of in-game green-on-black, but I haven't finished yet.

Let me see if I'm getting this right: TIM->BMP->PNG->text editor->png to bmp again then TIM then recompression and insertion. Is this the way this works?

Dashman,  I'm seeing a lot of 256x256, which is reassuring. Seems palettes won't be a problem, but I have yet to see more cases where palettes apply to our workload, only the two initial png's had as far as I can tell, but I'll need confirmation on that from someone more knowledgeable later. I have yet to see if the bit-depth in your AC3 text editor needs adjustment.

The text editor you prepared for us really is great, this will make text replacement and the required editing a much better process. Outstanding!
_______________

Quick update here, I have just converted all the TIMs, they're organized as follows:
Initial menus
Pictures, like character portraits in color and mission thumbnails
Mission briefings and debriefings
What I assume are the pre/post-mission TV broadcast and/or video-messages from characters
Finally, the last few are white-on-black. They don't really look like subtitles for the aforementioned messages, could these be the ones that get recolored to green for the actual in-mission chatter and other communications?

I need to take a closer look at them, and see where they fit in the timeline.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 12:11:53 am by DragonSpikeXIII »

Dashman

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Re: ACE COMBAT 3 electrosphere: text replacement (Jp->En) UPDATED
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2014, 08:03:57 pm »
I haven't touched TIM files (although I've fiddled with TIM2 with poor results) and have never use jPSXdec, but I'm guessing you can go TIM -> PNG -> editor -> PNG -> TIM -> reinsert with no problem at all.

The editor outputs png files with the size of the original image. If you open a 256 x 256 texture, it will generate a 256 x 256 one; if you take a 256 x 400 one, that's what it will generate (not tested, please confirm), and so on. Once you've finished converting everything, send me one of each colour combination, so that I can update the program to support those.

It would be good if you tried reinserting one of each kind of those textures for the first stage when you can, to see if the text is displayed properly (and to figure out what is wrong if it doesn't).

It's been a happy coincidence that I had worked on a very similar program before. I hope it proves useful to you.

DragonSpikeXIII

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Re: ACE COMBAT 3 electrosphere: text replacement (Jp->En) UPDATED
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2014, 08:30:21 pm »
I haven't touched TIM files (although I've fiddled with TIM2 with poor results) and have never use jPSXdec, but I'm guessing you can go TIM -> PNG -> editor -> PNG -> TIM -> reinsert with no problem at all.

The editor outputs png files with the size of the original image. If you open a 256 x 256 texture, it will generate a 256 x 256 one; if you take a 256 x 400 one, that's what it will generate (not tested, please confirm), and so on. Once you've finished converting everything, send me one of each colour combination, so that I can update the program to support those.

It would be good if you tried reinserting one of each kind of those textures for the first stage when you can, to see if the text is displayed properly (and to figure out what is wrong if it doesn't).

It's been a happy coincidence that I had worked on a very similar program before. I hope it proves useful to you.

I've just checked the generated file sizes for 256x90, 256x300 and 256x400 input images. The translated file is always 256x256. These, I should point out, are the ones out. All others from esperknight's .rar are 95% 256x256, while a few folders contain the so-called little strips, but they're not that many actually. Those are 256x18, they seem to be used for titles,  sub-titles (not for actual dialogue though) and acronyms.

Here are the different combinations you asked for: http://www.mediafire.com/download/xqq67ubr7twme20/AC3text-color-pairs.rar I can confirm the sizes for each kind of combination you see here are as you see in the .rar, no exceptions.

BTW, last minute edit here, bit-depth is always 4 bit, so we're almost always dealing with 256x256x4

Oh and I forgot to say, I'm still trying to reinsert images to no avail. Now that I have the TIMs and a converter I'll try again. Will report back soon I hope.

February 08, 2014, 12:47:14 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Been trying to reinsert through programs other than jPSXdec as it won't be of any help with 99% of the TIMs anyway. Found TIMmay, tried it to use it to extract TIM just to see what it can do and all it does is extract TIMs as weird tiny images, just like jPSXdec.
I have the file ready for replacement (1st mission briefing http://www.mediafire.com/download/odf1falx1ufhgrq/0127.rar ) if you want to try it on your end. What program are you using to extract the BPB esperknight? I really need that if I'm to test these TIMs in-game.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 12:47:14 am by DragonSpikeXIII »

Dashman

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Re: ACE COMBAT 3 electrosphere: text replacement (Jp->En) UPDATED
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2014, 07:11:18 am »
I downloaded the colour-pairs you posted and I've noticed the font is bigger in those. Are there several sizes for fonts or does it depend on the dump?

EDIT:

Well, I assumed there were two possible font sizes and here's the result:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/144016034/AC3_Text_Editor_1.1.jar

Now the application outputs the proper size and autodetects the colours of the original image. I've taken a look at how to work with palletes and bit / colour depth with java and I've ended up with a mild headache, so we're set with RGB for now (no indexed colours). If it proves necessary in the end, I'll try to find a way for it to work.

Another issue is that the font used for "Big" (Sans, size 18) is too wide in my opinion, which means it doesn't leave much room to write anything. If the big font is needed, I'd recommend you find a font narrow enough that you like and tell me, so I can modify the program.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 12:04:01 pm by Dashman »

DragonSpikeXIII

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Re: ACE COMBAT 3 electrosphere: text replacement (Jp->En) UPDATED
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2014, 06:08:11 pm »
About the font: I've been perusing my AC3 stuff for fonts and I THINK I've found the one the devs actually used, it's an almost perfect match except it looks like it's been horizontally squashed at first though I think height gets resized to half the original value. Font+image comparison http://www.mediafire.com/download/oxj2rplq6hjzxd4/0011.rar

About the size: the white-on-black images with the smaller font are the exception. Those that I first uploaded are not resized in any way for in-game display. Your 1.0 editor is tailor-made for these, so it is useful as it is in this case.

The ones from the BPB dump all have the same size larger size font. I'd like to point out that they're vertically squashed to about 256x128 for in-game display. From the looks of it the strips get resized too from 256x18 to half-height but I'm still trying to figure out the font size for those. You can see how the original font in the image dump is too tall and slim. We need to consider this fact as (with1.0) replacing stretched text with already normal (proportion) text will surely get us text about 1/4 size in-game, as if it were 256x64.

From the tests I've made I recommend you try between 6 or 8 (max.) font size for the "larger" and more prominent images. Keep the smaller on for the few that require it.

Regarding bit depth, I've found ways to convert it back and forth for editing and re-insertion so I hope that isn't a problem. As far as palettes go, I've only seen two out of hundreds that use it, if I understood this correctly. I wouldn't worry about that for now, but then again this is my first time messing with this kind of stuff.

By the way, I don't know what happened but your link for the 1.1 download seems to be for the 1.0 version still. Wrong upload maybe?

esperknight

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Re: ACE COMBAT 3 electrosphere: text replacement (Jp->En) UPDATED
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2014, 08:30:55 pm »
DragonSpike, the tool I used for uncompressing the ULZ files that get spit out from the BPB is custom code I wrote : http://www.mediafire.com/view/37c658q7ztxw57f (In case anyone is curious).  CUE wrote the tool to extract out the files from the BPB itself (appreciate that CUE!).  I can create a compressor and inserter, just might be a bit :)  Course if someone wants to do it I have no objections at all.

Far as insertion for the TIMs and viewing them I recommend this : http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/799/  This util is the one I've had the best results far as viewing as I've tried it with other games and it works great while other TIM programs failed.  I think this one can convert to TIM as well but I could be wrong...  And I recall that someone passed me a doc (hope he won't mind me sharing) that if I can find it may help with this too...

Dashman, I think that'll work fine as I think a good TIM program could convert it fine and use what palette is used for the original.  I could be wrong though as I've never had a need to try (usually I've only dealt with custom graphic formats).

Dashman

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Re: ACE COMBAT 3 electrosphere: text replacement (Jp->En) UPDATED
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2014, 08:36:50 pm »
By the way, I don't know what happened but your link for the 1.1 download seems to be for the 1.0 version still. Wrong upload maybe?
Ah, I always forget Netbeans' tendency to not keep the jar in the dist folder updated unless you explicitly ask for it, sorry about that... The link should work now.

I admit I got a bit confused with all this talk about sizes (mainly because I haven't taken a look at the BPB dump), I take it there's a "medium" size? If you need it, send an example of it and I'll add it to the next version. I'll add the font you sent as well, definitely better than Sans.

Dashman, I think that'll work fine as I think a good TIM program could convert it fine and use what palette is used for the original.
I haven't tried anything with TIM before, but my experience with TIM2 wasn't very good, mostly because the latest versions of GIMP do something really wrong with palletes of indexed images and the most I could do was royally mess up ingame graphics... I hope you're right, though.

esperknight

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Re: ACE COMBAT 3 electrosphere: text replacement (Jp->En) UPDATED
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2014, 09:20:52 pm »
I haven't tried anything with TIM before, but my experience with TIM2 wasn't very good, mostly because the latest versions of GIMP do something really wrong with palletes of indexed images and the most I could do was royally mess up ingame graphics... I hope you're right, though.

Very good point.  If you're trying to keep a indexed BMP with it's original palette then yep GIMP will kill it (although I think there's a command line option to replace it or somesuch or maybe something else?  I suck with graphics... but someone was telling me about this.)  Paint will replace it too.  I think what there doing is replacing it with the default windows one or something.  Now if you want to edit those BMPs and not kill them I recommend Usenti.  It was made in mind for this and works great (I've used it and works nicely).

I'm thinking though if your outputting PNGs and it gets fed in for conversion then the TIM program should handle creating a proper palette for it (even if it isn't the same as the original, as long as it looks right it should be alright).  Course I'm just guessing about all this so we'll see how it goes ;)  (But I know some who've played around with this from before with good results, I just haven't played with TIMs much myself :) ).

DragonSpikeXIII

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Re: ACE COMBAT 3 electrosphere: text replacement (Jp->En) UPDATED
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2014, 09:44:47 pm »
DragonSpike, the tool I used for uncompressing the ULZ files that get spit out from the BPB is custom code I wrote : http://www.mediafire.com/view/37c658q7ztxw57f (In case anyone is curious).  CUE wrote the tool to extract out the files from the BPB itself (appreciate that CUE!).  I can create a compressor and inserter, just might be a bit :)  Course if someone wants to do it I have no objections at all.

Far as insertion for the TIMs and viewing them I recommend this : http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/799/  This util is the one I've had the best results far as viewing as I've tried it with other games and it works great while other TIM programs failed.  I think this one can convert to TIM as well but I could be wrong...  And I recall that someone passed me a doc (hope he won't mind me sharing) that if I can find it may help with this too...

Dashman, I think that'll work fine as I think a good TIM program could convert it fine and use what palette is used for the original.  I could be wrong though as I've never had a need to try (usually I've only dealt with custom graphic formats).

That TIM viewer will be handy, much better than the one I was using. I too would like to thank CUE for making it possible extract the BPB!

A compressor+inserter will be necessary sooner or later, not necessarily right now as I'm still early in the editing process, figuring technical things out with Dashman and doing my first editing tests. As I haven't seen anyone else offering to help out, I might have to rely on your programming skill one day.

I'm already researching topics related to this project, such as image editing, translation and using the command-prompt (for the BPB) but I doubt I can reach the skill I see here and in other projects.

Ah, I always forget Netbeans' tendency to not keep the jar in the dist folder updated unless you explicitly ask for it, sorry about that... The link should work now.

I admit I got a bit confused with all this talk about sizes (mainly because I haven't taken a look at the BPB dump), I take it there's a "medium" size? If you need it, send an example of it and I'll add it to the next version. I'll add the font you sent as well, definitely better than Sans.
I haven't tried anything with TIM before, but my experience with TIM2 wasn't very good, mostly because the latest versions of GIMP do something really wrong with palletes of indexed images and the most I could do was royally mess up ingame graphics... I hope you're right, though.

Dashman I'm sorry for my last post, I guess it was a stream of consciousness thing. I'll do it right this time, with images.

Overall Disc 1 looks like this-> https://picasaweb.google.com/101579511926372120323/AC3TextSizes

After BrAWAKENING until white-on-black (included), it's all the same size BIG font, only color pairing changes. That's about 300 something folders, but a few numbers aren't present, but that's ok for now.

Quick explanation note: black on pastel yellow are either briefings or menu communications, same colors/size BIG
                                      black on teal are debriefings   color is different but size is the same BIG
     from 400 onwards    white on black can be a variety of things, always white on black, size BIG

All in all, I've determined there are three sizes, SMALL used by your 1.0 text editor, SMALLEST for the strips, and BIG for most of the TIMs (font size 6-8). These are the names I'd use if you agree.

Dashman

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Re: ACE COMBAT 3 electrosphere: text replacement (Jp->En) UPDATED
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2014, 03:18:00 pm »
Dashman I'm sorry for my last post, I guess it was a stream of consciousness thing. I'll do it right this time, with images.

Overall Disc 1 looks like this-> https://picasaweb.google.com/101579511926372120323/AC3TextSizes
I hate to say this, but... that link takes me to a "can't find page" message, so I'm still in need of an example for the SMALLEST lines :-\

I checked your font and noticed its size is 11+ MB, which is monstruous for a font file (and makes the program incredibly big in the process). The font itself is much nicer than Sans, but sadly, not much narrower. It appears to be monospaced as well, which is not gonna help when you want to fit text in a line.

I searched a bit and found this "Antonio" font, which seems to do the job. I've put together a comparison picture:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/144016034/font%20comparison.png

Of course, this is just an example. The choice of font is entirely on your hands, just try to pick one that won't give you trouble later.

DragonSpikeXIII

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Re: ACE COMBAT 3 electrosphere: text replacement (Jp->En) UPDATED
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2014, 04:15:06 pm »
This damn picasa thing, new albums default to private.....  Try again, should work now https://picasaweb.google.com/101579511926372120323/AC3TextSizes?authkey=Gv1sRgCP6TsOGWxJa0YQ

And you're right, Antonio is clearly the best, I've performed a quick test to see how it looks at half-height and it looks right. It's the best one yet as it saves even more space. I'll only know for sure when I get to see it in-game but for now we can definitely go with that if it's good for your editor.

Tonight I'm going to edit of the first TIMs and get them ready for reinsertion.

BRPXQZME

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Re: ACE COMBAT 3 electrosphere: text replacement (Jp->En) UPDATED
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2014, 04:23:32 pm »
We shouldn’t be looking for a font that’s that condensed normally, because it won’t look right re-scaled. I’m not sure exactly what approach the original developers took to make the text squished, but however it was done, it was definitely done mechanically.

Although I’ve looked into it before, I’m actually not certain what typeface the developers originally used. It’s probably an expensive Japanese one (expensive enough that you simply never will find a pirate copy of it) that has never been reworked for compatibility on modern OSes. The booklets have an imitation Chicago, and what English text is found in the Japanese version appears to be a Helvetica clone (closer to Helvetica than Arial is). My guess is that Helvetica is the way to go, unless it turns out to be impossible to make it readable with so few pixels.

edit: or you could just go for consistency and make it not readable (note the large R-18 tag; don’t go wandering off that page unless you’re prepared for gensokyo dongs)
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 04:35:22 pm by BRPXQZME »
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DragonSpikeXIII

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Re: ACE COMBAT 3 electrosphere: text replacement (Jp->En) UPDATED
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2014, 04:32:42 pm »
Oh boy this font thing isn't gonna be that simple is it?

I'm looking into it, will make two versions of the edited text for in-game testing if that's ok.

BRPXQZME

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Re: ACE COMBAT 3 electrosphere: text replacement (Jp->En) UPDATED
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2014, 04:50:44 pm »
Typographically speaking, this game is a mess. Like, you could say there are three typeface styles on most screenshots. But that’s 90s design for ya; I’m not particularly keen on changing it ;)

I think they did those TIMs that way because the vertical detail really helps with the kanji. Maybe it’s pretty helpful for languages with diacritics, too, but for English it just looks nicer and that’s about it.
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DragonSpikeXIII

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Re: ACE COMBAT 3 electrosphere: text replacement (Jp->En) UPDATED
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2014, 06:35:46 pm »
Alright I have the decompressed BPB with an edited TIM for the first mission, the two debriefing TIMs for both outcomes are missing so its just the briefing. The font is still sans, but this is just a test. It's here if anyone is curious and wants to try https://www.mediafire.com/#pq8b5ab614i2a I have TIMview+ for reinserting TIMs but I'm still in need of a compressor.

BTW I've been thinking of using the US version for comparison, here's a (low-res) example http://youtu.be/eTrvLlagwQc?t=25s , the content isn't what I'm looking at here, rather how much they managed to fit in and the font itself. If we can get something even close to this with what we have at our disposal, then we're good.

I really hope the game doesn't do weird things with fonts and such, otherwise I predict many headaches during editing.

xander

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Re: ACE COMBAT 3 electrosphere: text replacement (Jp->En) UPDATED
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2014, 07:21:05 pm »
Not sure if you were aware of this but someone posted info on this game here http://giphtbase.org/gipphe/ac3j/journal.php

which leads to http://giphtbase.org/gipphe/ac3j/old%20progress.php

might be usefull if this is the same ace combat 3 game unless there are different versions.
xander